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CaptRiker

What this game is really missing.....

Creative Mode for DU!  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Creative Mode for DU

    • Hell Yes!
      4
    • Naw, don't care
      25


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this game desperately needs a "Creative Game Mode" like in Empyrion Galactic Survival.. somewhere u have unlimited parts and can build, test, and blueprint creations then use those blueprints in normal game mode.  pretty please DEVS!

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Does not mean ppl cant sugest it. 

 

I think they could easily make a creative mode just like they make tutorials. 

A market where every item costs 0 quanta. The diference is that at the end all items deleted except blueprints. 

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46 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Does not mean ppl cant sugest it. 

 

I think they could easily make a creative mode just like they make tutorials. 

A market where every item costs 0 quanta. The diference is that at the end all items deleted except blueprints. 

But it also means I can tell them it's not a good suggestion and that infact NQ already said no. It's a bad suggestion because building is also a skill, but also acquiring the needed elements to tinker and build. That's the way NQ wants it. I definitely side with NQ on this one, a creative mode is a bad idea.

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Doesn't matter if its 100v1 in his vote. NQ doesn't want it in game. Bad ideas happen. This is a bad idea, because it takes people out of the game.  NQ want a player driven game. Log into the game and perfect your building talents if you so desire.

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Doesn't matter if its 100v1 in his vote. NQ doesn't want it in game

This is 100% bullshit.
No game is ever complete and closed. Developers adapt to the market.
Expressing feedback is never wrong.
You on the other hand are not trying to debate the bad part of this idea or the good part. You are trying to cut the idea by pretending that you are JC. You are not.

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9 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

This is 100% bullshit.
No game is ever complete and closed. Developers adapt to the market.
Expressing feedback is never wrong.
You on the other hand are not trying to debate the bad part of this idea or the good part. You are trying to cut the idea by pretending that you are JC. You are not.

So you want to spend 4-5 hours in creative to make the perfect ship so you can bring it to the game and use it? Why don’t you do it in game instead?

 

NQ said already 2 times no, they don’t want creative and they are not going to add it, end of story. So his opinion is not bs, it’s fact.

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Just now, Iorail said:

So you want to spend 4-5 hours in creative to make the perfect ship so you can bring it to the game and use it? Why don’t you do it in game instead?

Because some ppl fail on their designs. Or have not been playing this game for 4 years.
Some ppl dont know how many engines they gonna use until they use them.
Elements don't have XYZ sizes in any publicly available reference. So ppl don't even know the size of an L space tank.
And some ppl, don't have the resources to buy/make all game parts and try them all.

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Failing the designs are part of it. This is a bad idea, and that is out of NQs mouth not mine. Bad ideas happen. This one is bad. Of course new ideas are going to come into game, and of course this game isnt done developing.  But NQ wants good ideas not bad ones like this. You can discuss it, but don't change the fact is a bad idea. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Failing the designs are part of it. This is a bad idea, and that is out of NQs mouth not mine. Bad ideas happen. This one is bad. Of course new ideas are going to come into game, and of course this game isnt done developing.  But NQ wants good ideas not bad ones like this. You can discuss it, but don't change the fact is a bad idea. 

Can we? Will you let us? 

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Creative mode? No way, not ever.

 

But not having a design mode is pure nonsense.

 

Don't they have CAD, in this world of magic nanotech and teleportation/compute-enough-to-image-and-store-a-working-human-being? Or even SketchUp?

 

Boeing don't have a hangar where they jam parts together until something works. Space Agencies don't just stack rocket parts together until they get a combo they like the look of. You don't have to have all the lego pieces in your box before you start designing.

 

Experienced DU shipwrights have a good handle on the sizes and shapes and capabilities of the elements because they learned in creative mode. By which I mean, they got free, or effectively free, access to every element on the market for a lonnnnng time. Good luck finding an ORG that'll take a newbie and hand them a library of multiple copies of every element to futz around and learn DU functional design with.

 

Having an environment which permits blueprints to be created from any element can't be bad for the game (done right). The bloops still have to be resourced and then tested for pseudo-world effectiveness before they have any material impact on anyone else. A blueprint alone is pretty useless.

 

However, I will not vote for "creative mode", because that is nonsense for different reasons, in the idiom of DU. "Creative mode" implies, it seems to me, almost a copy of the pseudo-reality, in which the "creative" constructs could be deployed and enjoyed. That's 100% counter to the raison d'etre of DU, which is to get us all in the same space using our constructs.  While the "Don't they have simulators in this world of magic nanotech and compute power....." argument applies if you're looking for plausibility, I think that's the boundary where the principles behind the concept of the game can be allowed to override verisimilitude.

 

No, a design mode would be purely an interface for bringing together elements and manipulating voxels in an offline, static, largely non-interactive (with the construct) space. It would be a single player environment, and could readily be run locally rather than occupying server and network resources. It would just allow viewing of elements and voxels, their insertion into and orientation within build boxes, linking and interacting with switches and such. It would provide nominal numerical data about the construct a la build helper box. It could have a parameterised skill list so you could see what levels of skill were required to make links work and how they'd affect the construct's calculated characteristics. It would include the LUA hooks so people can design cockpit interfaces and complex element interactivity. You would not be able to climb in the thing and take it for a spin. It would not grant achievements in Builder. At best you'd be able to export a BP, but even if you just had to remember what you did, it'd have a useful place.

 

If blueprints with no bits are useless, what's the point of reaching for the verisimilitude of a design mode? As I see it there are a few advantages:

  • Secrecy - your shipwrights will no longer have to have a closed hangar to keep their projects safe from prying eyes.
  • Tidiness - you won't have in-design ships cluttering up your base. You wouldn't have abominations like my industry structure being a "work in progress" for weeks and weeks as I get distracted/need to mine the resources to complete; it'd at least look like a real building rather than a bunch of machines and containers hanging in thin air.
  • Appeal - people who are more interested in design than other things will have a slot in the game which they can pursue. And if they want their spiffy designs to be built they'll need to interact inside the game and get the bloops sold. Many designers want to see how their ideas perform in the real world; that's where they get their kicks, and those are the designers we want to attract to the game, rather than those who just want to make things for their own satisfaction.
  • Reduced server load - if it's a locally-hosted tool, the server doesn't have to support as many constructs, since most of the ones in the design phase will be offline.
  • Plausibility - CAD for DU. It makes sense.
  • Speed - design would be much faster.
  • Aspiration - if you've got a design that needs a certain level of resourcing, there's a push to get out there and get the resources in that isn't there if you're just noodling that design around as a "might fit together" concept in your head.

Heck, you could even have it not produce blueprints, if you wanted to retain the aesthetic of structure skeletons rising like the bones of antediluvian gargantua as the first one is put together.

 

Much of this could be achieved by simply releasing some assets in a common design tool format. That might even bring people into the game, if they find a bunch of DU bits for SketchUp, say, throw a design together and want to see it built. That probably wouldn't cover some of the in-game limitations on design, and I don't think could automate construct attribute calculations like thrust. Could probably do mass though.

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24 minutes ago, klobber said:

you can be sooo creative already, if you dont like what you did, just disassemble and restart,

so what ?

You can create exactly bupkiss without having the parts to hand. So a beginning character can make infinite variations of 3-atmo hover-2 stabilisers. Yay.

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5 hours ago, Kezzle said:

You can create exactly bupkiss without having the parts to hand. So a beginning character can make infinite variations of 3-atmo hover-2 stabilisers. Yay.

It's an MMO, new players shouldn't have access to end game on day 1.  Long term goals are a thing in this game. If a new player who is a builder sees a L core ship and goes "that's so cool, I wanna build one!" Then it's a long term goal. Even if they make a BP in some BS creative mode, they will never have the resources anytime soon, at least solo or small group. Progression is a big thing in MMOs and DU. 

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I actually agree that a creative mode would hurt the game.

But at the same time, when you go into the market and look at elements there is not even a resemblance of enough information about functionality and element size to make good purchasing decisions. So unless you have pre-alpha 999 experience, you have to blindly buy one of everything to try and figure out the functionality. Which is a hard sell for a beginner with hardly any resources.

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1. Repeatedly saying "bad idea" without explanation isn't really providing anything useful lol -- I think by 'creative mode' the OP probably just means having some way to build and test constructs, not a full blown server running creative mode rules. 

 

2. There's a big difference between difficulty due to complexity vs. difficulty due to a lack of information / clunky presentation. Having a design mode to figure out how building works would motivate new players to grind the materials required. That doesn't make the game effortless or not rewarding.  

 

3. NQ should be open to any good idea, especially in regards to retaining new players. Arrogance isn't a good look in any community or business. Honestly considering an idea you initial dislike is a sign of intelligence...discarding an idea because "you say so" really isn't...

 

4. This game is advertised as a sandbox. Creativity is a challenge that can never be "mastered". Helping people get to the point where they can actually enjoy the sandbox seems like a good idea to me. There's plenty of ways to do that other than a design / creative mode, but this part of the game needs major work. If this is supposed to be a cool space adventure where I can adopt any role and be any specialist, it'd be nice to see some of that potential even starting out -- vs. "actually no you're stuck on this moon and i hope you like digging and setting up the same factory as everyone else..." :D 

 

 

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1 hour ago, michaelk said:

1. Repeatedly saying "bad idea" without explanation isn't really providing anything useful lol -- I think by 'creative mode' the OP probably just means having some way to build and test constructs, not a full blown server running creative mode rules. 

 

2. There's a big difference between difficulty due to complexity vs. difficulty due to a lack of information / clunky presentation. Having a design mode to figure out how building works would motivate new players to grind the materials required. That doesn't make the game effortless or not rewarding.  

 

3. NQ should be open to any good idea, especially in regards to retaining new players. Arrogance isn't a good look in any community or business. Honestly considering an idea you initial dislike is a sign of intelligence...discarding an idea because "you say so" really isn't...

 

4. This game is advertised as a sandbox. Creativity is a challenge that can never be "mastered". Helping people get to the point where they can actually enjoy the sandbox seems like a good idea to me. There's plenty of ways to do that other than a design / creative mode, but this part of the game needs major work. If this is supposed to be a cool space adventure where I can adopt any role and be any specialist, it'd be nice to see some of that potential even starting out -- vs. "actually no you're stuck on this moon and i hope you like digging and setting up the same factory as everyone else..." :D 

 

 

I and other people have already gave reasons why.  A big one is NQ said "no". Can they do more to help creative people ingame? Sure. There is probably a huge never ending list of things NQ wants to add to the game. And if this game even last half as long as say eve, much more will be added. But a creative mode, is just a bad idea. Resources are better spent elsewhere.  Once you progress, getting those bigger elements to tinker around with is way easier.  Generally speaking newbies are suppose to have access to end game stuff. Not on their own anyway. This game is a lot about progression. 

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16 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

It's an MMO, new players shouldn't have access to end game on day 1.  Long term goals are a thing in this game. If a new player who is a builder sees a L core ship and goes "that's so cool, I wanna build one!" Then it's a long term goal. Even if they make a BP in some BS creative mode, they will never have the resources anytime soon, at least solo or small group. Progression is a big thing in MMOs and DU. 

To build one, yes. And being able to design it from day one will reinforce the aspiration. Which is a Good Thing, since it will encourage people to stick around.

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what the game needs is stuff to do

after 2 weeks im struggling to find anything to do

only thing to do after building a basic house and manufacturing plant is dig hole for ore and sell to a broken market propped up buy Bots

i mean i list a few basic problems i see with the game straight of the bat

1.There is no reason to claim any territory off sant moon because u can free mine any tile not claimed on any body in the system and will never have to worry about pvp on ya base

2.massive areas of the game have already been striped mined and its only been 2 weeks

3.the ALFA vids the devs proudly show look 100% better then what we see in game

4.Space flight is horrible dull and boring and handles like a wet noodle

5.The basic UI looks nothing like alfa vids and pictures and is a mess

6.Its a sand box with no tools (u can mine and build shit thats it)

7.LUA scripting is  A MUST or u can enjoy having garbage ui placement and under performing ships 

8.the thriving citys they talk about are the same as SWG but worse because they are all ghost towns not just the outer settlements( i mean the most players ive seen at once is 20)

 

its a sub game with little value for whats in it currently  i mean ive built the mega base got manufacturing running can build ships and sit around selling stuff to the market screen.can go dig holes in the ground and mine some more ore and build some more stuff but meh as for space PVP with the way space flight is HELL NO 

 

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1 hour ago, Magnus01 said:

what the game needs is stuff to do

after 2 weeks im struggling to find anything to do

only thing to do after building a basic house and manufacturing plant is dig hole for ore and sell to a broken market propped up buy Bots

i mean i list a few basic problems i see with the game straight of the bat

1.There is no reason to claim any territory off sant moon because u can free mine any tile not claimed on any body in the system and will never have to worry about pvp on ya base

2.massive areas of the game have already been striped mined and its only been 2 weeks

3.the ALFA vids the devs proudly show look 100% better then what we see in game

4.Space flight is horrible dull and boring and handles like a wet noodle

5.The basic UI looks nothing like alfa vids and pictures and is a mess

6.Its a sand box with no tools (u can mine and build shit thats it)

7.LUA scripting is  A MUST or u can enjoy having garbage ui placement and under performing ships 

8.the thriving citys they talk about are the same as SWG but worse because they are all ghost towns not just the outer settlements( i mean the most players ive seen at once is 20)

 

its a sub game with little value for whats in it currently  i mean ive built the mega base got manufacturing running can build ships and sit around selling stuff to the market screen.can go dig holes in the ground and mine some more ore and build some more stuff but meh as for space PVP with the way space flight is HELL NO 

 

I feel you may be missing a large part of the game to be honest. I can understand some of the frustrations. However the game isn't complete yet. I am sure that the UI will be tweaked in the future so I deal with it. There is a nice HUD via LUA you can get. I will link it below for you if you want to try it.

 

1. You can not free mine any tile on sanctuary unless you have a STU on it and you only get one.

2. I have yet to find a place that has no ore. I mine on Alioth, Madis, Thades and their moons.

3. I will agree some things do look different now than in the Alpha vids they showed.

4. Space flight is meant to feel that way unless you keep your speeds down and invest A LOT of money and time into maneuvering elements like thrusters and retro brakes. Recommended to have way more thrust capacity than weight if you want to feel like a high speed fighter.

5. Again I agree that the current UI is a bit sparse and hard to read at times.

6. Yes, it is a sandbox. You have a ton of tools and you are meant to Make the equipment you want to use. (A lot of orgs have some good ships for member use already)

7. LUA scripting isn't a must. Most players I know haven't even touched it yet. I know about the hud I linked below because it just happened to catch my interest.

8. The "Thriving Cities" they were talking about were meant to be made by the citizens (you and your friends) over time. It's a fresh system make what you dream!

 

Space flight and pvp in space is based off Newtonian physics. Design your super fighter and enjoy it. There are some people who would love to be paid in game to design a ship the way you like it. Network, Join an org and explore! 

 

As a side note if you have the capacity to make some good money I would recommend a warp drive so you don't have to slow boat the solar system. I will agree that a good portion of space travel is just waiting in a slow line. I do enjoy the reality of it though. There is an org I have seen someone streaming, unfortunately I can't remember the name at the moment, that is focused on the pvp side of space combat. Seemed like a nice group to be honest if that is your cup of tea.

 

I wish you best of luck and hope you find what you are looking for in the game. Just keep in mind this game was meant to be what you "Make it".

 

If you want someone to talk to in game feel free to look me up. My in game name is the same as this forum name.

 

https://github.com/Rezoix/DU-hud

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3 hours ago, crazytaxzi said:

I feel you may be missing a large part of the game to be honest. I can understand some of the frustrations. However the game isn't complete yet. I am sure that the UI will be tweaked in the future so I deal with it. There is a nice HUD via LUA you can get. I will link it below for you if you want to try it.

 

1. You can not free mine any tile on sanctuary unless you have a STU on it and you only get one.

2. I have yet to find a place that has no ore. I mine on Alioth, Madis, Thades and their moons.

3. I will agree some things do look different now than in the Alpha vids they showed.

4. Space flight is meant to feel that way unless you keep your speeds down and invest A LOT of money and time into maneuvering elements like thrusters and retro brakes. Recommended to have way more thrust capacity than weight if you want to feel like a high speed fighter.

5. Again I agree that the current UI is a bit sparse and hard to read at times.

6. Yes, it is a sandbox. You have a ton of tools and you are meant to Make the equipment you want to use. (A lot of orgs have some good ships for member use already)

7. LUA scripting isn't a must. Most players I know haven't even touched it yet. I know about the hud I linked below because it just happened to catch my interest.

8. The "Thriving Cities" they were talking about were meant to be made by the citizens (you and your friends) over time. It's a fresh system make what you dream!

 

Space flight and pvp in space is based off Newtonian physics. Design your super fighter and enjoy it. There are some people who would love to be paid in game to design a ship the way you like it. Network, Join an org and explore! 

 

As a side note if you have the capacity to make some good money I would recommend a warp drive so you don't have to slow boat the solar system. I will agree that a good portion of space travel is just waiting in a slow line. I do enjoy the reality of it though. There is an org I have seen someone streaming, unfortunately I can't remember the name at the moment, that is focused on the pvp side of space combat. Seemed like a nice group to be honest if that is your cup of tea.

 

I wish you best of luck and hope you find what you are looking for in the game. Just keep in mind this game was meant to be what you "Make it".

 

If you want someone to talk to in game feel free to look me up. My in game name is the same as this forum name.

 

https://github.com/Rezoix/DU-hud

none of the ui lua scripts work in COCKPITS

i said of sant moon you can farm any tile without owner ship

space pvp consists of people siting in boxes in space blasting people from miles away

Look up starwars galaxys.... sandbox civs was done 15 years ago and was better and more alive every city here is a ghost town

go look in discord a miner scanner recently posted a pic of a moon with around 20 tiles with nothing in them striped clean and totally empty not that u need to leave sant moon for ore

im not looking for someone to talk to i was looking for the gameplay showed in ALFA and it looks worse in fact id call it a lie

 

im done with the game stooping membership and waiting till there is a game to play if there ever is one because ive seen this to many times and just waste my time im not paying money to test their game wile they add features that should already be in a BETA and ready to go

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7 hours ago, Kezzle said:

To build one, yes. And being able to design it from day one will reinforce the aspiration. Which is a Good Thing, since it will encourage people to stick around.

So your basing the only, or at the very least a lot people sticking around because they can log out the game, and into a creative mode, and have unlimited access to elements and voxels? Sorry I'm calling Bullshit.  Your just reaching and trying to make up very specific instances, ones the devs themselves already said they dont want, to make some sort of argument. 

 

Devs want people in game. Seeing people fly around the market with bigger ships can give people those aspirations,watching youtube or twitch can. Or have it themselves orginally.  I'm all for adding stuff INGAME.  Make an element museum near the institute's that show size and scale of an element. Also adding better descriptions of elements, that includes size and length I'm all for. Keep it in game.

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