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blazemonger

NQ, why are you killing your one popular game mechanic?

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2 hours ago, Yt Noyz said:

I am in total agreement. 
This new building mistake is a game breaker for me. This game was sold as;

"

NO CHARACTER CLASS. NO PREDETERMINED ROLE.

The role you play in the shared universe only depends on your actions and your choices. Be a space pirate. A galactic trader. A cargo hauler. An interstellar industrialist. And everything in-between."

Alpha is different game from the one they gave us in Beta, And not one indicator that anything was up.

They took all choice of independent - solo play away. Don't know why they would do that. One thing for sure is that it would certainly be an issue with many, many players and they won't even have the decency to own up to it and have a conversation about it, 

Maybe they are  afraid to admit that they aren't capable to deliver all they promised us that a single shard universe would provide, That is why they sneaked this feature in to the Beta. They need money and if they told us this between closing Alpha and the initialization of Beta and the large infusion of cash as result. They would have lost all that cash. Sorta like Star Citizen selling of ships to finance their game that doesn't work. 

I for one am highly disappointed in their childish tactics,

 

Yes, there are a lot of things that annoy me about this game. This is one of the more irritating ones however. The gameplay loop is very shallow, at the moment, and probably would of been better if npcs/pve were implemented. Something to help the solo players would be nice as well. On saturday, I was looking at basic industry process and trying to figure out how to set them up and the amount of menus I had to click through drove me through the wall. Also, the UI needs to fixed such that it is easier to find recipes and stuff.  It should at the very least tell you the crafting progression system.

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Agreed. But I've made it thru so far with lots of trial and errors. Just that those big jumps in quantity are not right at all - a very boneheaded thing for them to do. Just wish that they would also just settle on the what and how and just make it consistent over time without changing the basics  every time they do a major update. And for god;s sake stop the WIPES! 

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7 hours ago, Treelessrain said:

 

Yes, there are a lot of things that annoy me about this game. This is one of the more irritating ones however. The gameplay loop is very shallow, at the moment, and probably would of been better if npcs/pve were implemented. Something to help the solo players would be nice as well. On saturday, I was looking at basic industry process and trying to figure out how to set them up and the amount of menus I had to click through drove me through the wall. Also, the UI needs to fixed such that it is easier to find recipes and stuff.  It should at the very least tell you the crafting progression system.

I think there is a big difference between playing solo (completely self sufficient) and playing solo but still being involved in civilisation.  It seems to me that the people who are having issues are those that was to be complete independent from civilisation, which is NOT what the game was advertised as.  WHY does the game need NPCs to give people things to do when there are hundreds of orgs out there looking to give people work.  Our orgs have loads of casual players earning millions from the VERY SPECIFIC roles quoted in that piece - Hauling, mining, building basis.  They work on a job basis (JUST LIKE NPCS MISSIONS).  I really do not understand what the difference is, why are you ok going to an NPC and getting a mission to haul something for xxx quanta but you wont do it for another player.

Also, just an idea, if you have to make LOADS of product (from you large industrial machine) then make it, use what you need AND SELL THE REST to other players on the market...........

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52 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

WHY does the game need NPCs to give people things to do when there are hundreds of orgs out there looking to give people work.  Our orgs have loads of casual players earning millions from the VERY SPECIFIC roles quoted in that piece - Hauling, mining, building basis.  They work on a job basis (JUST LIKE NPCS MISSIONS).  I really do not understand what the difference is, why are you ok going to an NPC and getting a mission to haul something for xxx quanta but you wont do it for another player.

I think the first problem is that people are expecting these job hookups to be in-game, and the systems simply aren't in place yet. If people don't know to look out-of-game, or how to, if they're aware there might be possibilities, the connections won't be made.

 

The second problem is one of trust. MMO players have an unfortunate reputation for trying to shaft the little guy. I absolutely don't think it's deserved, in "90%" of cases, but there are enough bad apples that even with a game-mediated mission system, people would fear the scammer. The other side of the perception is that "NPC" missions are 100% safe investments (as long as you complete them, ofc) where payment is guaranteed upon completion of the delivery/quota/whatever.

 

Please be quite clear that I'm not accusing anyone, especially you and yours Moosegun; you're businessfolk, and shafting people tends to be bad business in the long run, and you're probably at least as ethical as the next guy, since you've got sustainable relationships with your contractors. It's a systemic problem, rather than an individual one. Hopefully, honest actors like Moosgun's outfits will be able to erode that historical perception.

52 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Also, just an idea, if you have to make LOADS of product (from you large industrial machine) then make it, use what you need AND SELL THE REST to other players on the market...........

It's a good plan. Sell it in tiny quantities at slightly inflated prices so that people who need detailing supplies can get what they want.

 

1 hour ago, Moosegun said:

I think there is a big difference between playing solo (completely self sufficient) and playing solo but still being involved in civilisation.  It seems to me that the people who are having issues are those that was to be complete independent from civilisation, which is NOT what the game was advertised as.

Aye, that's probably true. It's a baggage that comes with people's perceptions of an MMO which is essentially a single player game with other people running around in it as background. Actually playing with and cooperating on an ongoing basis with other people before the "team sport" of "end game raiding" is unexpected to most MMO players. They're expecting to "grind to level cap" on their own and then start looking for a team. Which is sad, and I hope people realise they need connections and are able to find them before becoming discouraged.

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50 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

Aye, that's probably true. It's a baggage that comes with people's perceptions of an MMO which is essentially a single player game with other people running around in it as background. Actually playing with and cooperating on an ongoing basis with other people before the "team sport" of "end game raiding" is unexpected to most MMO players. They're expecting to "grind to level cap" on their own and then start looking for a team. Which is sad, and I hope people realise they need connections and are able to find them before becoming discouraged.

If you are trying to do everything yourself and live completely solo you are playing a role, A HERMIT...... which is a bloody tricky role to play.  I do get what you are saying about player made jobs to be ingame, I cant wait until it is, but until it is, how difficult is it to join and org with a job board (there are plenty) and find ways to earn money.   OR just pick a certain range of products, sell them on the market and buy the stuff you need.  Solo doesnt mean self sufficient, in a game like this they cant make it so solos can easily be self sufficient or it would be TOO EASY for everyone else.  A good example being materials, all the people complaining about the changes on this thread has made look into setting up an operation to make and sell materials to them lol.  Different way at looking at the game i suppose, some people see a problem, i see people with a problem as an opportunity.

We had a player join us recently who we sent took out and set up on another planet, he can run the site himself and owns HIS OWN land their too, all he has to do is fill some crates with certain things and which we pick up and pay him for at above market rate.  He earns over 1 million a day JUST from the stuff he does for us.  All because bothered to join a flexible org.

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i keep hearing the word WORK for orgs but what is there to do besides dig holes mine ore and build useless buildings and space ships for hauling more ore to build more useless stuff

this game as it stands fails on everything that was advertised bar voxel building its like ELITE dangerous it sounds grand buts its empty and useless 

there is no econ because there is no reason in the game to do anything

and spend in game cash on what other people's ships lol im serious that all quanta is good for u can buy someone elses ship so you can dig more holes in the ground or be blown away buy rockets buy some dude in a box lol i mean the current loop in DU is boring as all hell

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 3:01 PM, blazemonger said:

 

I appreciate the gesture but in return I'd suggest actually reading the context of the initial post against the patch note as the latter has no relation to the point raised at all.

 

The patch note is about the batch size not showing correctly before pressing start, it means nothing regarding the batch sizes themselves (besides maybe that NQ is not using the same data table for the UI display and the actual batch size which is kind of a small red flag in and of itself).

I did, which is why I pointed to the patch notes; since the only time I have an issue with creating honeycomb material is in the machine. All the Nano-pack recipes work fine, but those same ones in the honey-comb machine are broken right now. It is not that the data is displaying incorrectly before you press start, but rather after as it is a different amount for people with this problem.

 

Every other machine that does batches is reasonable for me. 

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5 hours ago, Moosegun said:

I think there is a big difference between playing solo (completely self sufficient) and playing solo but still being involved in civilisation.  It seems to me that the people who are having issues are those that was to be complete independent from civilisation, which is NOT what the game was advertised as.  WHY does the game need NPCs to give people things to do when there are hundreds of orgs out there looking to give people work.  Our orgs have loads of casual players earning millions from the VERY SPECIFIC roles quoted in that piece - Hauling, mining, building basis.  They work on a job basis (JUST LIKE NPCS MISSIONS).  I really do not understand what the difference is, why are you ok going to an NPC and getting a mission to haul something for xxx quanta but you wont do it for another player.

Also, just an idea, if you have to make LOADS of product (from you large industrial machine) then make it, use what you need AND SELL THE REST to other players on the market...........

+1 to this. I Have a small org atm. We literally only produce 1 element with out industry, sell that for quanta. Then use quant to buy everything we need. In a matter of 2 days we have a M core with tons of elements being designed.  By purchasing elements from players it has helped us progress faster, and help economy by buying from players. The thing is, when people start industry, a lot of people I've seen think they need to build every single voxel and element themselves.  That really isn't the case. Get proficient and making a few, sell your excess, buy what you need. Good and fun ways to progress imo for a lot of people who dont even wanna be heavy into industry. 

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3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

If you are trying to do everything yourself and live completely solo you are playing a role, A HERMIT...... which is a bloody tricky role to play.

Heh. Nicely put.

 

There needs to be more juniper bushes about...

3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

  I do get what you are saying about player made jobs to be ingame, I cant wait until it is, but until it is, how difficult is it to join and org with a job board (there are plenty) and find ways to earn money.

Technically, not very. I suspect that a lot of MMO players don't expect to need to, is all, and don't know what to do when they find their lonely efforts unsatisfying. "I can't solo everything, so the game is broken, because I could do everything on my own in [insert MMO of choice where that was largely the case]".

3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

 OR just pick a certain range of products, sell them on the market and buy the stuff you need.  Solo doesnt mean self sufficient, in a game like this they cant make it so solos can easily be self sufficient or it would be TOO EASY for everyone else.  A good example being materials, all the people complaining about the changes on this thread has made look into setting up an operation to make and sell materials to them lol.  Different way at looking at the game i suppose, some people see a problem, i see people with a problem as an opportunity.

Absolutely. I think it's just 'not what (some) people expect'. Not saying they're right to expect to be self-sufficient, it's just, as you say, a different way of looking at the game, based on misconceptions about it.

3 hours ago, Moosegun said:

We had a player join us recently who we sent took out and set up on another planet, he can run the site himself and owns HIS OWN land their too, all he has to do is fill some crates with certain things and which we pick up and pay him for at above market rate.  He earns over 1 million a day JUST from the stuff he does for us.  All because bothered to join a flexible org.

And long may your flexibility and willingness to work with people benefit all involved.

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14 hours ago, Moosegun said:

I think there is a big difference between playing solo (completely self sufficient) and playing solo but still being involved in civilisation.  It seems to me that the people who are having issues are those that was to be complete independent from civilisation, which is NOT what the game was advertised as.  WHY does the game need NPCs to give people things to do when there are hundreds of orgs out there looking to give people work.  Our orgs have loads of casual players earning millions from the VERY SPECIFIC roles quoted in that piece - Hauling, mining, building basis.  They work on a job basis (JUST LIKE NPCS MISSIONS).  I really do not understand what the difference is, why are you ok going to an NPC and getting a mission to haul something for xxx quanta but you wont do it for another player.

Also, just an idea, if you have to make LOADS of product (from you large industrial machine) then make it, use what you need AND SELL THE REST to other players on the market...........

I am not sure what to say to do this. PVE and NPCS would be nice, because I don't know it is 2020 and most other games have them? This whole emergent gameplay might dry up real quick.... 

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2 hours ago, Treelessrain said:

I am not sure what to say to do this. PVE and NPCS would be nice, because I don't know it is 2020 and most other games have them? This whole emergent gameplay might dry up real quick.... 

Were going to the future not the past. NPCs for what? So you can mindlessly slay rats in a dungeon for 10 points of XP, get the fuck outta here.

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15 hours ago, Moosegun said:

A good example being materials, all the people complaining about the changes on this thread has made look into setting up an operation to make and sell materials to them lol.  Different way at looking at the game i suppose, some people see a problem, i see people with a problem as an opportunity.

 

This needs more love. To me this is exactly the game NQ pitched to me. Players have problems, and use in game methods to solve them. I hate it when people cry like bitches for more ez mode its usually a vocal minority and often can hurt a game if the devs listen. Stay strong NQ, keep going with your vision. 

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Were going to the future not the past. NPCs for what? So you can mindlessly slay rats in a dungeon for 10 points of XP, get the fuck outta here.

Right now what else is there to do besides mine build mine- npcs will add more depth to an incredibly hollow gameplay loop. Naturally, they need to be implemented correctly to make the player feel rewarded and that they were engaged in the content as well. Also, no is crying for EZ mode- is asking for more depth easy mode to you? The game I was pitched was a single shard mmo- where you can forge your own way. What I got is mining simulator 2.59  with some flying and markets involved and maybe a few orgs. So no, I don't think it is easy mode to ask for more depth in a game that has barely any depth. 

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6 minutes ago, Treelessrain said:

Right now what else is there to do besides mine build mine- npcs will add more depth to an incredibly hollow gameplay loop. Naturally, they need to be implemented correctly to make the player feel rewarded and that they were engaged in the content as well. Also, no is crying for EZ mode- is asking for more depth easy mode to you? The game I was pitched was a single shard mmo- where you can forge your own way. What I got is mining simulator 2.59  with some flying and markets involved and maybe a few orgs. So no, I don't think it is easy mode to ask for more depth in a game that has barely any depth. 

Does there need more depth? Of course.  Not in the form of NPCs in the traditional sense. Some wildlife for the planet's that have atmosphere? I can get behind that. But not In the sense for people to do combat PVE, that is a waste of development, and the very least at these early stages.  While there is a decent amount of mining no gonna argue, I'm still finding a lot of depth. Me and my small org have done a lot with a little imo, and are already making contacts,  and future goals some that are short term, some long term.  But we also know this game, similar to eve, will kick out new content all the way til servers shut off, that's how sub games work.  It's like 3 weeks in an early beta, and I'm loving it while also eager for more like most people. NPCs in any huge meaningful way is not what the game needs right now, they need server stability and to slowly add what's on the current roadmap, then go from there.

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3 hours ago, Treelessrain said:

Right now what else is there to do besides mine build mine- npcs will add more depth to an incredibly hollow gameplay loop. Naturally, they need to be implemented correctly to make the player feel rewarded and that they were engaged in the content as well. Also, no is crying for EZ mode- is asking for more depth easy mode to you? The game I was pitched was a single shard mmo- where you can forge your own way. What I got is mining simulator 2.59  with some flying and markets involved and maybe a few orgs. So no, I don't think it is easy mode to ask for more depth in a game that has barely any depth. 

Why do you need an NPC to tell you what to do?  The only thing shallow here is your imagination.  You have to make you own gameplay loops, you want to start business empire you can do that, you want to start a ship building company, a taxi company, repairs, transportation, security, pirating you can do ALL that, you just do have some NPC telling you what to do.  I understand some people dont get that, people are too used to certain types of games, they struggle with something different.  Hell you could start a racing team if you want, build a race track.....

I NEVER struggle to find something to do, infact i struggle with not having the time to do everything.

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NPC? Please no.

Putting NPCs to tell you what to do means using a significant amount of resources to create a system of automatic missions that reward players for doing something.
It is a typical mechanism of modern games.
Would putting it in DU hurt?
I'm not sure.
Maybe that's an interesting thing that could come in the future, but certainly not a priority.

I have been trying to return to my shipyard for three days to start a new ship and I still haven't gone there because:
1. I helped some friends with their project
2. I fixed the cargo ship of one of them that was badly set up (he still owes me 2kk: D)
3. I blew up my carrier and had to do my best not to waste 3 hours fixing it
4. I went to retrieve friends in Alioth laps that had been crashed or lost for various reasons
5. I went to mine (half hour) to get two bucks (500k) to buy some things
6. Opened a collaboration between org
7. and first of all I built a carrier in 3 hours to transport my smaller ships

And I don't have a penny in my pocket, nor can I say I'm full of resources.

There are things to do. In abundance.
There is no time to do them.

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Maybe they want to prevent people from being able to produce everything and force increased market usage?  "If I want a little bit of this, I have to make some monumentous effort to make a bunch just to get the little bit I need" sounds like a trip to the store and grab a 6 pack of whatever whatsit or whosit you might need..  where is the issue here?  I dont get it.

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On 9/12/2020 at 5:23 AM, blazemonger said:

 

NQ-Please .. Why are you nerfing industry out of existence with even further batch increases. The one gameplay mechanic people seem to enjoy and you pretty much remove it from general gameplay to keep the backend alive.

 

 

Wow do you think you could blow this out of proportion any further?

 

Nerfed out of existence....yup.

 

Yes this was such an absurd post that I actually responded for the first time ever on this forum to it....geeez

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2 hours ago, Mordgier said:

Wow do you think you could blow this out of proportion any further?

 

Nerfed out of existence....yup.

 

Yes this was such an absurd post that I actually responded for the first time ever on this forum to it....geeez

That's just blaze. Most of us know that's what he does, blows things out of proportion,  haha.

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