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Ben Fargo

No One Left Behind

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As I understand it, when players log off, their avatar will disappear.  When they log in again, their avatar will reappear at the same location.  If they were on a ship and the ship moved away while they were logged off, they would no longer be on it when they log in.  This is a serious problem.  Either the ship can only move when the entire crew is logged in or it may need to frequently go back and pick up those who were left behind.  This will be trouble even for small crews, especially if they live in different time zones, but it could make large crews impractical.

 

A solution would be to give the players the option of leaving their avatars in the game as a physical objects when they log off.  Then the avatar would be carried along with the ship as it moves and still be on board when the player comes back.  Since the avatar was still present, it could be attacked and it would be basically defenseless with the player logged off, so players would only want to do this in places they felt were relatively safe.

 

Logging off in this way could put the avatar into a sleeping position, so anyone seeing it would know the player was logged off.  It would be desirable, but not necessary, to design ships with  designated sleeping areas where the sleeping avatars could be kept without getting in the way of other activities.

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Ships might just have a function like that in game. I think the block you were standing on is where you always spawn.

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As I understand it, when players log off, their avatar will disappear.  When they log in again, their avatar will reappear at the same location.  If they were on a ship and the ship moved away while they were logged off, they would no longer be on it when they log in.  This is a serious problem.  Either the ship can only move when the entire crew is logged in or it may need to frequently go back and pick up those who were left behind.  This will be trouble even for small crews, especially if they live in different time zones, but it could make large crews impractical.

 

Where did you get the impression people wouldn't be in their ships after they logged back in?

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I think they will be tied to the block they are on, if its destroyed, maybe they spawn on the nearest planet?

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Should DU have it similar to Rust and ARK? Where the character is still there?

 

Perhaps ships have a little "spawn bubble" that saves the Character's last location?

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Why would you not log back on the ship?

 

This is not your standard MMO.

Each dynamic construct has its own xyz axis. It seems obvious that when you log back on you are back at the same coordinates inside the construct.

 

Otherwise you would log into space...that doesnt make any sense.

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Why would you not log back on the ship?

 

This is not your standard MMO.

Each dynamic construct has its own xyz axis. It seems obvious that when you log back on you are back at the same coordinates inside the construct.

 

Otherwise you would log into space...that doesnt make any sense.aWht

What if the ship was destroyed?

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"

Spawn points might be relative to either the "container" construct of a given point on the surface of the object that the player was on before logging off. The point is that Dual Universe is persistent, constantly updated with data and actions by other players in the Universe. 

 

Where your client stops updating, others continue. I don't see it as a hard task to synchronise locations/log out points with the information constantly streamed from the cloud. It's easy to update other variables, so a point along X,Y, Z should be no different. The problem will be tracking such physics in space. Where a ship is still intact, you log on where you logged off. Where a ship is destroyed, you log in at the nearest Res node. Where the part of the hull is somehow removed from the body, the computer simply does what it did before: 

 

Where was the player location on the surface? Spawn there. 

Is the surface destroyed separately/ or along with the hull? Spawn player at destroyed location. 

 

But, wait a minute, that would mean spawning a player in the middle of nowhere in space, no? 

 

Quick fix: Spawn player at nearest open res node. 

 

Where no Res node is open, you go all the way back to the Arkship area. 

 

 

It's not perfect, but it certainly is a start. 

 

Cheers.

"

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I think not matter what the solution will be to this problem, it's not going to be perfect. What if you log off on someones ship and they don't want you there? How do they get you out? What if you get on someones ship and log off for a month; who knows if that ship is even owned by the same person when you come back? Is anyone going to be okay with someone coming back after a month onto their ship?

 

I could see the "you're at the same spot on the ship as when you left" mechanic becoming a cheap exploit, pay someone to take you across the galaxy while you're logged off. You just pay some kid in a basement and he flies around for 12 hours while you're at work. You come back the next day, bam you teleported.

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Where did you get the impression people wouldn't be in their ships after they logged back in?

 

I got this impression from something JC said in the video of the GDC meet-up, but I think I misunderstood what he said.   At about minute 42, he talks logging out, then logging back in and finding yourself drifting in the middle of nowhere.  I listened to it again tonight and now I think he is talking about the whole ship drifting away, but before that I assumed he meant you were left where your ship had been.

 

Part of the problem was the audio was not the best, but most of it was just the way I reacted to the words.  In my mind, if I'm on my ship, I'm in a special place, I'm home, so when I heard  "middle of nowhere", I jumped to the conclusion that meant not being on a ship.

 

Sorry for the confusion.  It seems I have a solution to a non-existent problem.

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Or better solution when a player is close enough to a ship and they log off there position is saved relative to the ship core.

Then when they log back on they will just appear back where they where relative to the ship.

 

Of course this should only happen if the ship is friendly/permissioned. To stop people from logging off next to enemy ships then waiting for them to go back to there base to raid or destroy.

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I think not matter what the solution will be to this problem, it's not going to be perfect. What if you log off on someones ship and they don't want you there? How do they get you out? What if you get on someones ship and log off for a month; who knows if that ship is even owned by the same person when you come back? Is anyone going to be okay with someone coming back after a month onto their ship?

 

I could see the "you're at the same spot on the ship as when you left" mechanic becoming a cheap exploit, pay someone to take you across the galaxy while you're logged off. You just pay some kid in a basement and he flies around for 12 hours while you're at work. You come back the next day, bam you teleported.

I really do not see that as a problem.

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I feel like this can be fixed by a cryo pod. You enter the pod and are greated with an exit game option (and possibly a screen to set what skill you want training while AFK). It will safe where you are and log you back into the cryo tube. There will also be a 'physical' body within the cryo pod, people will be able to tell its occupied, and possibly who it is.

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It's an interesting problem to discuss for sure. There was some talk about log-off mechanics back a while ago.

 

What I believe to be an ideal solution (in my limited expertise) is this: Players must log off while they're in stasis. In other words, players must first find a "stasis chamber" (a bed, if you will) to put their avatar into a dormant state, where they can safely log off. From this point, their avatar will disappear from the universe. When they log back in, they will respawn at the stasis chamber where they logged off, wherever that might be. Therefore, stasis chambers can be installed on ships and no one will be left behind.

 

If there is no stasis chamber available, you can still log out, but your body will ragdoll, and you'll be left at the mercy of the forces. If your body suffers fatal damage, you will die and respawn at the nearest Resurrection Node. If you log out in a stasis chamber and that chamber is destroyed, you will also die and respawn at the nearest RN.

 

EDIT: Lol you beat me to it with the cryopods, Dark. However, I don't believe that a stasis chamber should have an occupied status, or for very large ship crews, you'll also need a very large number of stasis chambers. Your body should simply disappear when you log off and another person can simply use the same chamber. Maybe your body gets shifted to another dimensional plane, if you want to be scientific about it.

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I feel like this can be fixed by a cryo pod. You enter the pod and are greated with an exit game option (and possibly a screen to set what skill you want training while AFK). It will safe where you are and log you back into the cryo tube. There will also be a 'physical' body within the cryo pod, people will be able to tell its occupied, and possibly who it is.

But what if the game crashes?

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I hate these ideas that wont your body to stay in the world.

That idea may seem immersive but when you actually try and play it it will just be frustrating.

I like to know me and my items are safe when log off.

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I think JC has also talked about how you should just leave your ship floating around when you log off. He mentioned you should land it, get to a safe zone, or park it somewhere friendly before just logging off. I do think the mechanic will be a bit off when it is first released though because this can also lead to a lot of combat logging. Maybe you can't log off until you are not moving which could help the "floating away" issue as well as a mechanic for combat logging. You need to be out of combat for 30 seconds or something along those lines.

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Maybe you can't log off until you are not moving which could help the "floating away" issue as well as a mechanic for combat logging.

I think that would make sense.

You cant log out during combat, if you force exit your character stays in game for x amount of time.

 

Since the ship is persistent it doesnt need to account for it. The basic MMO rules would work fine.

 

Cant log out while moving.

Cant log out in combat.

 

 

But....what if the station you are on is under attack?

Anyone? :P

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If they can manage players in ships that are moving while they are walking around, they can most certainly handle players logging out in moving ships. 

 

I think the point of discussion about landing your ship before you log out had more to do with putting it somewhere safe to keep from being attacked while you are offline because, while your avatar may disappear, your ship will still be there in the world free for the taking. 

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But....what if the station you are on is under attack?

Anyone? :P

 

For most games, basic rules are if you (the player) are in combat, you can't log until you spend X amount of time out of combat. If a ship gets attacked and you have not engaged in any combat, you should be allowed to log off.

 

Also, as an idea, a big issue being talked about seems to be what happens if a ship explodes and your exact location is lost and now an invisible space "tile." What if when you log off and log back on, if you are now on a space "tile," you should move to the nearest RN. This could be another solution to floating away issue.

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For most games, basic rules are if you (the player) are in combat, you can't log until you spend X amount of time out of combat. If a ship gets attacked and you have not engaged in any combat, you should be allowed to log off.

 

Also, as an idea, a big issue being talked about seems to be what happens if a ship explodes and your exact location is lost and now an invisible space "tile." What if when you log off and log back on, if you are now on a space "tile," you should move to the nearest RN. This could be another solution to floating away issue.

Of course, d'oh.

The ship/station/construct would count as a seperate entity. I knew that...:P

 

And yes, to me it seems logical that if the construct you are in, in space, blows up you respawn at the closest RN.

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