Moosegun

That is the point they are NOT forcing PvP, you can get EVERYTHING from the three planets / moons, if you want to go to other planets get a WD, ZERO need to enter pvp = pvp is currently 100% consensual in its present state FACT.  You do not need to enter into the pvp zone unless to are ready to either fight or flight.

Our org has operations on 8 planets, I have spent 60% of my time in space, both flying to various planets and warping, I have radars on all my ships, do you know how many other players ships I have seen in that time...... ZERO.  Never been shot at, even waved at.  Anyone getting killed in space at the moment it is 100% user error.

PvP zone is a testing zone, enter it at your own risk, NQ will not expand it until PvP is ready, which will not be for some time.  So chill out and stop making these knickerwetting threads.

And here we have the core point I can not agree enough with; everything needs to risk reward but it needs to be balanced. A non combattant player should not be forced to have to engage in PVP, they need to have means at their disposal allowing them to reduce the risk to the point where they are willing to accept it for the possible rewards. Countermeasures provide that option combined with a more balanced arsenal available to PVP oriented players.. And that is where the cat and mouse games begin which is the fun part
 

And here is the key point, we have NO IDEA what NQ have planned, so lets not all start lobbying for change until we do, they current pvp in the game is a completely optional non event, anyone who claims anything else has an agenda.

I do agree btw, I think we will be seeing a LOT of tears from pvp players when NQ do start to balance things out, should be amusing.  Whilst I am all for pvp, that is ONLY if it is balanced to the extent that a good player can protect their assets, regardless of risk.

The funny thing here is that your are in fact making the exact statement and hold the same opinion as the people you accuse.
 
Why would PVP players leave when they can't "get to" people who do not want to PVP? Why are you, by your own admission here, defining the success of PVP by the ability to prey and attack those who do not have the ability to defend or do not wan to be attacked? Why are you not able to find and fight others who are interested and engage in PVP? Is there something about the risk of actually being killed by a better or smarter PVP player that holds you back?
 
Fact is that if PVP were to be removed form the game today, it would mostly continue as it is, far more people are interested in building and designing. Now, I would be the first person to admit PVP brings an element to the game that makes it better but the notion the game would fail if PVP were not there is only true from the perspective of the PVP oriented player and it is their personal truth, not the absolute one.
 
It's just amazing how some of you PVP  "players" are really just looking for the risk averse kills and will no doubt start crying foul as soon as NQ bring in mechanics that will allow non combattant players a better chance of not getting killed while not actively engaging such as jammers, stealth tech and other counter measures besides putting weapons on ships. The one crying here is you, not the PVE players actually.


DU is not a PVP centric game, PVP is part of the the game loop, it's not at the center of it. 

The other solution is to remove any alloys T2 from Alioth / Madis / Thades and there moons.  So players that are scared of losing pixels can potter about in safe zone, and those of us who dont mind heading out into space can bring back the good stuff from them.

I am an industrialist trader but I am 100% for open pvp in as many areas a possible but ONLY when NQ gives us the tools we need to combat it
RDMS to include shared KOS / Friendly lists of other orgs players The ability to store information on player who attacked org assets PvP is vital as a means to add risk to a game that has none, it add values to products and gameplay.  Without any NPC's there needs to be pvp to create a sink for all the wealth being created.  NQ are clearly in no rush though, development to date 100% suggests that they are happy for us to keep building up civilisation before we start to knock some of it down and I think that is a good thing.  The fact that PvP updates arent even in the first part of the roadmap suggests how important NQ place it in the big scheme of things.  Think we are a good 3-6 months of relaxing of safe zones / atmos pvp.

Also LOVING the fact that everyone is blaming this calious pirating on Borg cubes being OP when i know for a FACT that 80% of the people killed by one main org DIDNT EVEN HAVE A RADAR!!!!!  Most of these players would have died if they got attacked by someone on a hagboard with an XS rail strapped to it. 

The is a very simple reason why I 'put this poster down' because his post is based on ZERO first hand experience, only anecdotal evidence based on watching a video.  It suggests that unless there are changes to the current PvP system the game will fail.    PvP in the game currently is a placeholder, it is 100% consensual, as you do not need to take a single STEP into pvp space to access EVERY ore / planet in the game.  Yes of course there are massive issues with PvP, it is only partially implemented, which is why it only takes place in a relatively exclusive area of the game which should ONLY be used by players prepared for pvp. 

NQ have made it very clear that PvP is work in progress, hence why it is so limited, I have no doubt that NQ will not roll out any expansion to PvP zone until they are sure that the balance is better, they have also made it VERY clear that they want PvP to balance in favour of the defender, how they do that remains to be seen.
 
Statements like - "Unless some serious changes are made to PVP in DU. The game will not be successful. As the CEO of NQ has stated on many streams this is a civilization game, not a PVP game. The Devs need to start making players fully aware of this. Unregulated PVP will completely ruin the game we all want." - This is a MASSIVE over reaction, the OP has no idea where NQ are going with PvP and to suggest the current PvP is anything other than a minor sideshow that effect very few people is a joke.

By all means make suggestions to improve PvP but please dont act like it is ruining the game, when only about 1% of players have even been shot at yet.............. kneejerking at its best

 

Way to kneejerk, going to dislocate something going off on one like that.  Also great that you have managed to come up with such a comprehensive overview of the problem from  your extensive experience on the subject...... oh no, you havent you have watched a bloody video.  Amazing how many people become experts on things from watching a single video,  generally find out they havent got a bloody clue what they are talking about.  To be honest I cant even be bothered to explain all over again what is wrong with this drivel. 
 
Do you always pretend to be an expert in something you have zero first hand experience and suggest wide spread fundamental changes?  Or just in PC games
 
Currently this game is 100% safe, you can get EVERYTHING from within safe zones, and then get a warp drive which means you can get EVERYWHERE ELSE without leaving safe zones.  PvP at the moment is nothing more than a place holder and 100% concensual (you actually have ZERO reason to enter pvp zone, EVER).   Also, only about 0.01% of the players base has ever been shot at.
 
Infact going to rank this as the worst post since BETA launch, gg.

(just so you know, 10 years in Eve is about par around here)

So much this.  Most PVP, even in games like EVE and Elite Dangerous (which has the worst ever way to deal with this) can be avoided with care and effortt.
 
The people who whine and whinge about pvp have;
 
a) willingly joined a game with PVP and then started to insist "...but not for me, ever!"
 
b) have no willingness to learn how to avoid pvp or to protect themselves from opportunistic attacks
 
c) are too concerned for the health of pixels.

Have they removed crashing the game to stop your ship... lol brilliant, bet the forums were full of people lying about the 'game crashing' and getting teleported about.  Would like to point out, I had noticed   and yeah, I 100% agree, fix AGG pls.  We have never used one because they are just too much hassle.

I do not agree with a list that pretty much says "remove any sting from PVP without asking me to put in effort defending against it"
 
The glass walls that are being put up in safezones which destroy you when you fly into them and if there are walls built in space on warp landing zones (also in safe zones currently) then yes, I agree that would/should fall under griefing and NQ should both reimburse the victim and ban the griefer, there is no question or argument from me on that.
 
That said though, you fly with radar and you pay attention, that alone will take away a huge number of opportunities currently being offered to gankers.
Yes, weapons need a balance pass and yes, NQ needs to look at how they will restrict options like flying L guns on an XS core but at the same time, the way forward here is to offer gameplay options to those who consider themselves non combattant. And that means countermeasures like jamming or radar lock breaking mechanics. NQ also needs to provide more details on why you were killed, with what and by whom. This is information that allow you to build experience, learn and get better.
 
PVP is part of this game, you can't go around basically asking NQ to nerf PVP into the ground because you want to do your thing without having to worry and not put in any effort to counter a possible attack. That is just as spineless as building walls in space IMO..

No it isnt, it is bot driven with a player overlay, Elite is a miss mash of several games loosely joined together in a sudo MMO that isnt really an MMO.  
 
No it isnt a PvP game, sorry but you are 100% wrong there, it is a civilisation building MMO, a pillar of civilisation is war, which means it will be a part of the game, it WILL NOT be the main driving factor, NQ has been very clear about that and it shows in its development plan.
 
This is actually what I think SHOULD happen, it should be up to the community to protect itself from pirates, the issue as always though will be the solo players, they will refuse to play in larger groups and because of this will be very open to attack, they will cry, seen it in loads of games.
It actually shouldnt come down to what generates the most money, it should come down to the integrity of the developers to build the game they set out to build, without caving into pressure from either side.  If games where just designed to be 'popular' they would all look like fortnight, I LIKE niche games, I DONT like niche games that are turned into mainstream ones due to players forcing their playstyles on other, be that PvP or PvE.

Great post but you have slightly missed my point, I am not interested in my opinion, I am interested in the DEVS sticking to THEIR opinion, which has been very open and honest from the start, that there will be limited safe spaces (sanc moon) and the rest will be self governed open pvp. 

I am interested in large player made governance, I am interesting in building a civilisation and civilisation comes with unified defence.  I have no issue with solo hermit players at all, I have an issue when they want to divert the game from the devs stated path.  If people do not want open pvp, why did they buy a game which open publicised it would be the case, I will tell you why, because they knew if they complained enough it would change....... and I can see it coming.  Solo hermit do nothing to contribute to civilisation, nothing to make the world bigger or better, they just offer soft targets when the fighting does start.

Please note that all of my opinion are solely based on NQ giving us all the tools we need to properly implement player made security / defence.  I STRONGLY believe that this includes some sort of robust offline protection, and generally strong defence.  NQ have also gone on record that they will strongly favour the defender AND that offence pvp will have to be planned to be successful.  Still interested to see who they are going to achieve this.

Did like the shitting in my hand comment lol

I dont WANT pvp, I avoid it like the plague, but I 100% want it in the game, I want the RISK of it.  My point about 'hermit' solos, people who completely refuse to engage in the community element of the game, is that they ruin it for everyone else.  Societies solution to antisocial behaviour is community and law and order. That only works if the community that needs protecting engages in it.  We can protect areas of this game space, if the people group together to protect it.  But every time I fly over Alioth and see all these tiny 'Rust in Space' outposts miles away from civilisation I just see massive targets.  We need to group together to build a stronger world, THAT is the solution to pvp in my opinion, not false safe zones.

I am going out of my way to build bridges and defences to ensure my org are safe when pvp comes....... most of these people havent spoken to a single person since they joined the game, might as well be playing a single player game.

And here we have a fine example

- purchased an open world pvp game without actually wanting open world pvp CHECK
- solo / small player, takes 2/3 weeks to build ship CHECK
- now wants to completely remove pvp from the game apart from large org CHECK
 
IF they did your suggestion, my whole org quits..... as will most others I know who bought into this game from the start

No it isnt, it is bot driven with a player overlay, Elite is a miss mash of several games loosely joined together in a sudo MMO that isnt really an MMO.  
 
No it isnt a PvP game, sorry but you are 100% wrong there, it is a civilisation building MMO, a pillar of civilisation is war, which means it will be a part of the game, it WILL NOT be the main driving factor, NQ has been very clear about that and it shows in its development plan.
 
This is actually what I think SHOULD happen, it should be up to the community to protect itself from pirates, the issue as always though will be the solo players, they will refuse to play in larger groups and because of this will be very open to attack, they will cry, seen it in loads of games.
It actually shouldnt come down to what generates the most money, it should come down to the integrity of the developers to build the game they set out to build, without caving into pressure from either side.  If games where just designed to be 'popular' they would all look like fortnight, I LIKE niche games, I DONT like niche games that are turned into mainstream ones due to players forcing their playstyles on other, be that PvP or PvE.

Neither WoW or Elite were player driven games though, this is a pretty much 100% player driven game, so the danger HAS to come from players, if you are removing pvp, then you are basically removing any risk at all.  The game is then broken, nothing has any value.
 
Why did you by a game with pvp and then try to get it removed / dumbed down?  It has been very clear from the start that it would have pvp pretty much everywhere.  Why do people buy games and then complain about well advertised elements of it.

Sorry was some massive sarcasm in my comment, well aware. Mate it is a joke, I sit in discord support and it is loads of new players crying because 'their game crashed and they are stuck 40km from their ship and there poor hands are hurting so they couldnt possibly mine for scrap....." In three years never asked for a single teleport, lol  in alpha we once flew jetpacks 2SU in space to get to our space station after running out of fuel, took two hours with a rizla packet wedged in the key because you couldnt autorun, god damn it!  That is the adventure, this guy wants to sit at home in front of his tv with a pizza whilst stuff is delivered to him.
 
Forgot to add..... kids...... country gone to the dogs..... etc

I literally gagged a little bit.....
 
Just to humour you
 
1/ Dont crash, if you do it has consquences
2/ See 1, if you dont do 1, you are saved from doing 2, 2 is your penalty for doing 1
3/ ok
4/ live nearer the market or stop moaning you chose to live miles away from the market - probably bought into the weird Rust mentality that it is 'safer' out there
5/ pay another player to do it
6/ Pay attention
7/ See 6 but if you go to a market you can check all your market containers

Great post but you have slightly missed my point, I am not interested in my opinion, I am interested in the DEVS sticking to THEIR opinion, which has been very open and honest from the start, that there will be limited safe spaces (sanc moon) and the rest will be self governed open pvp. 

I am interested in large player made governance, I am interesting in building a civilisation and civilisation comes with unified defence.  I have no issue with solo hermit players at all, I have an issue when they want to divert the game from the devs stated path.  If people do not want open pvp, why did they buy a game which open publicised it would be the case, I will tell you why, because they knew if they complained enough it would change....... and I can see it coming.  Solo hermit do nothing to contribute to civilisation, nothing to make the world bigger or better, they just offer soft targets when the fighting does start.

Please note that all of my opinion are solely based on NQ giving us all the tools we need to properly implement player made security / defence.  I STRONGLY believe that this includes some sort of robust offline protection, and generally strong defence.  NQ have also gone on record that they will strongly favour the defender AND that offence pvp will have to be planned to be successful.  Still interested to see who they are going to achieve this.

Did like the shitting in my hand comment lol

Have to agree with you here, and building civilization isnt done overnight. If we all manage that in 6 months i think we should be proud people.
And indeed Security Is everything, nobody leaves their doors open at night, so why would you in an open world. And it is relative easy to actually get organized but unless the need is seen it wont happen in large numbers.

Some pvpers do want to hunt players that have a low or 0 chance of killing them. That's their choice and its still pvp. But I do agree there needs to be counter measures for people to escape, mechanics and stuff like that.  I'm pretty sure JC said only 5% of pvp is implemented right now.  And I wouldn't care tbh if the current safe zone stays forever,  but all t3+ ore removed from there, and no safe zones at all in future systems. They can just add Sanc moons as needed around alioth. 

PVP needs a lot more work before it can be "released" in full force. Right now, PVP is pretty much "having guns". We need to get countermeasures into the game for one and the damage output of weapons needs at least one major overhaul before IMO it can be considered to be ready for "prime time".
 
I also agree with those wondering why some seem so eager o get access to more defenseless targets instead of seeking out likeminded players, if only to make sure NQ gets the data and examples of what is goodm and what not, about PVP..

I can't escape the feeling NQ will in fact keep the current safezones intact for at least another 6 months, or until v2 of PVP is ready (which I do expect will include countermeasures for space combat like radar lock breaker/jammer tech and possible shields). As it is now, if the pewpew hungry are let loose, they will kill the game in no time by chasing those not interested away because there is no counter mechanics at all and resists are way to generic to really make choices.  The result right now would be flying cubes which no one would want.
 
Lets keep in mind this game is not centered around PVP, it is not the premier game mechanic around which everything else is built (as NQ has stated quite clearly several times).

Right now, PVP is limited to shooting at people who want a fight (there are very few of those) and shooting at people who are either idiots or clueless.  I have personally killed 12 ships, and the blockades I've been a part of have killed over 30 in the last week alone.  In that time, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the incredibly poor designs people were flying.  PVP is entirely avoidable in DU right now, if you get killed, it is 100% because you chose to fly a poorly built ship in a dangerous area.  Enjoy the thrill and the fear of getting caught, it makes what you're doing exciting and when you get away, you will experience an amazing rush that very few games can give you.

The other solution is to remove any alloys T2 from Alioth / Madis / Thades and there moons.  So players that are scared of losing pixels can potter about in safe zone, and those of us who dont mind heading out into space can bring back the good stuff from them.

I am an industrialist trader but I am 100% for open pvp in as many areas a possible but ONLY when NQ gives us the tools we need to combat it
RDMS to include shared KOS / Friendly lists of other orgs players The ability to store information on player who attacked org assets PvP is vital as a means to add risk to a game that has none, it add values to products and gameplay.  Without any NPC's there needs to be pvp to create a sink for all the wealth being created.  NQ are clearly in no rush though, development to date 100% suggests that they are happy for us to keep building up civilisation before we start to knock some of it down and I think that is a good thing.  The fact that PvP updates arent even in the first part of the roadmap suggests how important NQ place it in the big scheme of things.  Think we are a good 3-6 months of relaxing of safe zones / atmos pvp.