MookMcMook

NQ has been very clear that there is no NPCs/AI in the game with the exception of the markets early on following release to allow a kickstart of the economy. No AI, no NPCs, no developer created PVE.

If you're thinking in terms of "Early Access", which is usually understood to be a fully playable version of a game, but with some bugs and ongoing development, you will be disappointed.
 
DU is in pre-alpha, there isn't much "game" yet, and we only get access to the servers one day a week. Most people that have bought in up to this point have done so because they feel the game will be worthwhile, and are therefore willing to support the development with upfront cash in exchange for a great game later. The actual game play we're getting currently is not what we're paying $100+ for, we all believe we'll get our value for money later, that's what crowdfunding is all about, after all.
 
If you really want to enjoy just playing the game, wait until late in alpha2 or even beta, because by then we will probably have 24/7 access and almost all the features will be implemented.

You are better off waiting until NQ determine the NDA is to be lifted then it is obvious:-
 
1. Technically it is ready
2. You can determine directly the game play quality for you.
 
Don't make the same mistake you've already made with SC. On that subject have you looked into a refund. You could then always repurchase with no significant loss and absolute risk removal on that money, that way, and even reinvest it into DU anyway. /suggestion.

If you like making things with Voxels there isn't really anything else around that compares at the moment. If you are looking for more a space sim or something I would wait a bit.

I believe the best choise is to watch all dev blogs and decide whether you like what you see so much, that you want to pay 180euro or not right now. From my point of view the price is pretty high and as supporter packs will be available right until beta starts - there is enough time to make a decision and wait for more infromation from official source. 
Also keep in mind that currently NQ will make at least one full wipe for each testing stage, so there won't be advantage after release except some personal knowledge about the game. 

........ and is really limited at the moment by the NDA in operation. Once its lifted I am sure lots of new info will hit - so much so that we will have information overload
 

Multiboxing as in EVE is far less viable in DU due to its very nature. While I have three backer accounts and will have each active in a specific specialized field I won't be running them concurrently on the same activity.
 
The whole Organisation structure is really not yet of any importance and once it will become that, I know at least two major EVE alliances will start operations in DU. They will bring their structure and chain of command which will put them at an immediate advantage of many of the current Organisations which I feel are mostly paper tigers.
 
As much is yet to be finalized it's all a huge crystal ball really..

Your preferences shape your conclusion, of course.
 
Sounds like you'd prefer if ALL players could spend 90% of their game time in PVP, with the "boring" stuff like mining and manufacturing as automated as possible. Nothing wrong with that goal, provided you're the kind of player that likes to PVP all the time.
 
NQ are not marketing DU as a "PVP game" though. They are trying to provide activities that will accommodate a wide range of playstyles. DU has PVP, but it's not the focus of the game.
 
If you don't like mining and crafting, leave that to those who will enjoy it, and just buy your military gear on the market. That's how it's worked in EVE for the last 15 years...

I would expect that salvaging would be limited in scope, otherwise not enough materials would be lost.
 
That in turn reduces the incentive to prospect and mine for ores, as "recycled" materials re-enter the manufacturing chain.
 
If materials are not constantly removed from the game world, the "pool" of resources in circulation will rapidly grow, and could result in a situation where mining is only worthwhile for the rarest resources. But even "rare" will become common eventually if things are not lost...
 
 

Take it as good news: Performance must be fairly good to be going for more features.
 
But take it as another cycle: New features are in their infancy and need a lot of testing.
 
It sounds good that the economy and creating and distribution of resources and maybe later crafting are all integrating into the game before alpha.
 
I'm very happy to hang on until then and the game hits alpha and the nda lifts and a lot more eyes see a good state of DU (it will be).

There are many subtleties in DU that are easy to miss, and therefore get lost in the noise of recycled arguments that have been valid in "other games" for decades.
 
Unless I'm mistaken, ALL market terminals in DU will be player-owned, unless NQ build "arkship market terminals" to compete with players... which would surprise me.
 
That would mean that DU will be the first game I know of with no "Auction House" provided by the game itself, which would be outside of player control.
 
That has profound implications, because it means players will decide who gets access to the markets !
 
So be careful who you offend... or else make sure your alts cannot be identified in the slightest... 

Counterintutively, not moderating the simulation can lead to the simulation strangled by the players. Well, strangled by one type of player that goes around harming all the other players, leaving with only that type of player and a shrinking playerbase thanks to the one type of player driving all the others out.  On the other hand, an argument can be made about this being natural and humans naturally being jerks

No secret that I hate Windohs. Have to keep that pile of rubbish running at work. 
At home, I switched to Linux, not because I love Linux but because I wanted to get away from Windows.

The other option is Mac ... well there are cheaper Etch-and-Sketches out there than what Apple sells.

Let me just be very clear, I am not against a Linux client but feel that it's just not a viable option prior to full release. If after the game is out and running NQ finds the time and resources to develop a Linux client then why not. The point raised earlier that NQ should not set expectations for this before they can commit to it is spot on IMO.
 

The more risk and danger you introduce to the game, the more it becomes an "ultra-hardcore PVP game", which does not seem to be what NQ are aiming for.
 
There is an audience for that kind of game play in an MMO, but it's a small one. The design that NQ has shown us so far indicates that they plan on appealing to a wider audience. They probably need a wider audience, DU is a subscription game after all, and it's not going to survive with a few thousand players...

The most significant difference between DU's markets/Auction House/shops and other MMO's is that in DU, the trade goods all have to be stored in the game world.
 
In DU, when you list an item for sale, it doesn't vanish from your inventory into an alternate dimension (the Auction House), from where it magically pops into the inventory of the person that buys it. Anything listed for sale on a market terminal has to be placed in a storage container attached to that terminal. So "big markets" will need "big storage".
 
And I have no idea how constructs will be handled.
 
So your scenario of "many smaller shops" may actually materialise...

It might be that cities and population density should be a function of population size and paying customers. IE Large Orgs end up creating these things for their large memberships out of "blood and fire" (or space equivalent). So maybe it will come after. I kinda assumed it would come first, but it really depends on the game systems and how much agency of player combat and how intense competition is.
 
I do agree, creativity seems high ceiling in this game as you describe above but maybe a product of war as opposed to an alternative?
Yeah I think you hit the same idea as me: Cities being a product of org success as a consequence and suitably well organized and defended and functionally useful to the industrial-war-complex of the org itself and it's continual power projection?
 
I do hope to see my Gothic Cathedral with JC Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor though!

I find that programmable monsters did not bring much in Landmark

I'm basing my view on what we currently know regarding the DU design.
 
At this point, we know the game world will be massive, but the "safezones" only cover a tiny % of that play area. That is the current reality, and NQ have not given any indication that the ratio will change significantly.
 
We can use "what if" to turn DU into anything we want to, but that's the realm of daydreams. I prefer to work with what we know, rather than how we wish it to be.
 
Sure, creative games like Minecraft have become hugely popular, but none of them are set in a single-shard FFA-PVP environment. If anyone can prove that the Minecraft servers featuring PVP are by far the most popular and numerous, then I'll accept that that audience has a home in DU.
 
I'm intentionally highlighting the harsh realities of DU, because players that enter the game with illusions will be the most vicious haters of the game when those illusions are shattered.

Apologies my reply was indeed tone deaf: It's a very very good thing (for philosophical reasons I won't go into!): Here's some:-
 
synonyms: distinctive, individual, characteristic, distinct, distinguishing, peculiar, individualistic, different, typical, special, specific, representative, unique, personal, private, essential;

Make it an "adult themepark" and you can collect 15 bare butts instead !

Hmm, good job OP for starting this "conversation starter"! And some awesome replies so far by everyone.
 
I'd try to begin from first principles (hehe and drive everyone spare by doing so... hehe)...
 
City in RL: As above the economic reasons (and mate selection also as Nanodot points out: "Sexy Cities" for young people defo a big incentive, that energy probably channels most of the economic model of many societies; whoa anyway side-tracking again, where were we?)
 
City in DU: It's going to be a BASE OF OPERATIONS I think first and foremost: A Spacebase, let's think about that:-
 
1. Location for resources
2. Defensible location on planet or elsewhere
3. Node in orgs trade routes and market hubs
4. Density of these becomes an attractor in itself
 
So that's what it is mostly is. What would it look like?
 
1. Places for ships to land and dump cargo and fill up with stuff.
2. Places for others to make ships and other stuff.
3. Builders want to build buildings no doubt perhaps fortifications and rooms for various functions.
4. Maybe a long-term plan to attract new players flashy stuff just for showing off a nice ambience/atmosphere?
5. Some functional fun stuff: death race tracks and themeparky stuff that might be fun to bet on...
6. Markets and "bars" purely for novelty and maybe ingame music and such like?
7. Some second life weird stuff like architectural challenges people seem to dig... "here's my condo on lake Ta-Ho of Alioth".
8. Tutorial centres for newbies?
 
Personally I love sci-fi military novels so just see large centres as military bases with the required logistics and economic supplies, but no doubt others will see many other things especially if there's lots of interactive stuff to mess with?
 
How much of the above will be under some protective bubble or Spectre Style Hidden Bases underground?
 
There will definitely be a demand by in-game players to "stand and stare" and soak up all the creativity possible from building and designing "in space". "So come to Dual Universe, for the memory of a lifetime!"

Yeah, that's the usual response: "The game must be very "realistic", except it mustn't have the boring parts of RL that make up 90% of our daily lives"
 
Cities in RL exist for reasons that cannot be duplicated in an MMO. In RL, people live in cities because it's the most likely place to find work (within a reasonable travel distance) and/or a mate. Neither of those needs exist in an MMO. The need to socialise in an MMO is easily met by a voice chat channel, there's no need for physical proximity to other players. Global chat takes the place of going to a bar and chatting to strangers.
 
In RL, industry clusters around cities mainly because it's the best way to gain access to a big pool of labour, and because there's some economic benefit in being closer to the dozens of other industries that supply them with things they need. None of those reasons apply in MMO's.
 
That's why MMO's have to provide specific (usually artificial) incentives to encourage players to concentrate together in the game world. Players are usually highly mobile, and they're playing because they want fun action, not because they want to RP an office cleaner on nightshift.
 
In MMO's, players don't need to commute to work every day, or sleep 6 hours every night, or worry about freezing to death if they can't pay the heating bills in winter. In MMO's, players don't go home every night and watch some TV after a hard days questing... 
 
In MMO's, cities are mostly the equivalent of RL shopping malls, players go there briefly when they need to buy stuff. Then they leave.
 

But isnt NQ have confirm about energy like electric. ? They have say it have been consider and likely will appear in game, but we dont know when yet :).

About building city, first we need to know why city appear in the first place. Like in real life, it is very tiresome to take resource from a far to your main facility or go to each place to gather then transport to your main base, so the city will appear to solve that. If the need raise there will be someone response to it.

The best avatars are idiosyncratic imo.