NanoDot
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Posts posted by NanoDot
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4 hours ago, CalenLoki said:
Another incentive for independent players to gather and build stuff in one place could be de-centralised trading system: Instead of single "trading hub" that handles whole stock market, I'd rather see a lot of smaller, private shops co-existing next to each other.
How to? Make the trading system super simple: Owner of the shop is owner of all the goods in there. He's also the only one who can create passive offers ("want to buy", "want to sell"), and everyone else can only accept those offers (which is always less profitable). That create need to build a lot of shops of various sizes, with individual landing pads, storage buildings, item dispensers, ect.
The most significant difference between DU's markets/Auction House/shops and other MMO's is that in DU, the trade goods all have to be stored in the game world.
In DU, when you list an item for sale, it doesn't vanish from your inventory into an alternate dimension (the Auction House), from where it magically pops into the inventory of the person that buys it. Anything listed for sale on a market terminal has to be placed in a storage container attached to that terminal. So "big markets" will need "big storage".
And I have no idea how constructs will be handled.
So your scenario of "many smaller shops" may actually materialise...
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2 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:
If this is apparent I could see NQ changing their design around including this sort of play behaviour via enlarged safe zones (for the time-being or else some other variant implementation perhaps taxes or so on..). I find it difficult to guess further, as this whole building side of gameplay is not MY main interest at all, but I try to consider what other preferences different people seem to like and take pleasure from enjoying: And this building Landmark / second life sort of /sims type of thing does seem v popular, strange to me as it seems?
I'm basing my view on what we currently know regarding the DU design.
At this point, we know the game world will be massive, but the "safezones" only cover a tiny % of that play area. That is the current reality, and NQ have not given any indication that the ratio will change significantly.
We can use "what if" to turn DU into anything we want to, but that's the realm of daydreams. I prefer to work with what we know, rather than how we wish it to be.
Sure, creative games like Minecraft have become hugely popular, but none of them are set in a single-shard FFA-PVP environment. If anyone can prove that the Minecraft servers featuring PVP are by far the most popular and numerous, then I'll accept that that audience has a home in DU.
I'm intentionally highlighting the harsh realities of DU, because players that enter the game with illusions will be the most vicious haters of the game when those illusions are shattered.
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1 hour ago, MookMcMook said:
Personally I love sci-fi military novels so just see large centres as military bases with the required logistics and economic supplies, but no doubt others will see many other things especially if there's lots of interactive stuff to mess with?
I think your dream will be fulfilled !
I expect DU's civilization will mirror the medieval period in Earth's history, with "walled city-states" being the predominant feature. In DU the walls will just be defence domes. I doubt it will ever progress beyond that point, but anything is possible, however unlikely it may be...
The primary driver of economic activity in DU will be military applications, i.e. weapons and defenses.
The users and producers of military materiel will be offering the highest prices for everything, because that's where competition for resources will be the hottest. Those that want to build pretty (but functionally useless) buildings will have to compete on the market against the military, who need those resources for their very survival.
Orgs will prioritise resources for military use, because unless a "city" is well-defended, its pretty buildings will be reduced to slag in no time.
I'd even go as far as predicting that at least 75% of the playerbase in DU will be here for the PVP, with the rest for "other reasons". And the "other reasons" group will most likely shrink steadily as the realities of FFA-PVP sink in...
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2 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:
This, i do not agree with. Any MMO i have played, even with voice chat has a need for social intereaction, people want to show their skins and emotes, and some more things in that field. Simply because being alone on the chat without seeing another avatar can get boring, feels more lonely then when you goof around between more players, and thats where the social factor will be present in any MMO. Build it And they will come. Why else is there already a few topics of people that want to be able to wave in game
You're talking about things that are "nice to have", but not remotely essential.
The only time I've ever seen players gather together in one building in an MMO to "socialise" was when the handful of RP'ers in that game got together.
In SWG, the early game mechanics forced players together in cantina's because they had to go there to heal a specific damage type. Eventually that mechanism was removed, and the cantina's were largely deserted after that, until a new mechanism was implemented (Entertainer buffs), which again provided a reason for most players to go there.
EVE has existed quite successfully for 15 years with no emotes and no player avatars...
You will see the other members of your org around you in DU whenever you visit the org HQ or go on combat or mining ops. But cities are irrelevant to that personal interaction.
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2 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:
We can always try to incorporate many. Just not the need to go to the bathroom and stuff, not looking for a Sims in space
But social interaction is possibly a good thing to start, add a pub or club to the city where they really sell food and drinks and that can act as social platform, maybe linked to a discord channel so the people in that bar are all on the same discord channel, stuff like that will help to make the game more fun. I hope crafting involves cosmetics/clothes then there is a possibility too to make a sort of shop for those, and so on. The more is added as craftable, the more will be in a city, An ikea kinda shop for decorative/usable design items. A media shop for electronics, A construct shop for materials and craft components, stuff like that. privat hover shop, privat flyer shop, etc. Why not
Yeah, that's the usual response: "The game must be very "realistic", except it mustn't have the boring parts of RL that make up 90% of our daily lives"
Cities in RL exist for reasons that cannot be duplicated in an MMO. In RL, people live in cities because it's the most likely place to find work (within a reasonable travel distance) and/or a mate. Neither of those needs exist in an MMO. The need to socialise in an MMO is easily met by a voice chat channel, there's no need for physical proximity to other players. Global chat takes the place of going to a bar and chatting to strangers.
In RL, industry clusters around cities mainly because it's the best way to gain access to a big pool of labour, and because there's some economic benefit in being closer to the dozens of other industries that supply them with things they need. None of those reasons apply in MMO's.
That's why MMO's have to provide specific (usually artificial) incentives to encourage players to concentrate together in the game world. Players are usually highly mobile, and they're playing because they want fun action, not because they want to RP an office cleaner on nightshift.
In MMO's, players don't need to commute to work every day, or sleep 6 hours every night, or worry about freezing to death if they can't pay the heating bills in winter. In MMO's, players don't go home every night and watch some TV after a hard days questing...
In MMO's, cities are mostly the equivalent of RL shopping malls, players go there briefly when they need to buy stuff. Then they leave.
- huschhusch, AzureSkye, MookMcMook and 2 others
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2 hours ago, AzureSkye said:
FantasyLand! Role play an eleven archer and collect 15 bear butts! Or be a Dwarven smith and fight the forces of evil with escort quests!
Make it an "adult themepark" and you can collect 15 bare butts instead !
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I'd imagine that power needs (i.e. electricity supply) can quite effectively be used to organically create settlements and eventually cities.
If a large power generator is much more efficient to run than a small one, the economic benefit will naturally draw people together.
Money talks...
- DragonShadow and AzureSkye
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I'm quite sure the "new player experience" will need to be adjusted over time, but exactly how and when is anyone's guess.
Trying to predict what DU's game play will look like 3 years from now is an impossible task, we don't even know what the game play will look like at launch, lol
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It comes as no surprise that everyone here is a fan of "sandbox" games, lol
However, history has shown us that "sandbox" games just don't appeal to the vast majority of players. Everyone of us will have their own pet explanation for why that has been the case in the past, and why it will be "different" with DU.
But I don't think it will be any different at all, actually. To thrive in a sandbox, you have to be creative and self-motivated. You cannot sit back and just consume the entertainment provided by the devs. The vast majority of gamers want just that: they want to be entertained and given clear goals to attain. And it mustn't take too much time to get there...
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18 hours ago, CalenLoki said:
Artificial game mechanics like.... TU for example?
I have nothing against underground base being really well defended. But if it's protected by magic (that can't be counter-spelled) then something is wrong.
The main thing that is "wrong" in any persistent online game is the fact that it's an imperfect simulation of RL, and therefore needs artificial mechanics to compensate for the fact that each player is not playing the game 24 hours per day.
Do you really want a game where the only way to survive is to play as a member of a large org that has 30-40 players active in all major time zones ? Because without "artificial mechanisms", you will need to somehow defend your base when it's attacked at 3:30am or at 2:00pm on a weekday while you're at work, or while you're on summer holidays on the beach somewhere...
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3 hours ago, CoreVamore said:
Sounds fine until u ask yourself.... who will do the mundane job of farming?
Those people that get tired of the mundane job of mining ?
Did you know, there's a game called "Farming Simulator 17" on Steam, which is ranked at 76th most popular game on Steam !
Just because you think "farming" sounds boring, doesn't mean everybody else does too...
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51 minutes ago, Lethys said:
Yeah, prices tend to just jump. Randomly.
Has nothing to do with me selling 50 PLEX and actually using that money to manipulate the market while at the same time using alts and spies (who told several people several different things over weeks) to snap the trap.....after that coup i could've bought 500plex. But the Market was dead for 6months anyway.
If it's too easy to ship high value goods safely and with No risk ppl will do the same in Du. But hey, pls do it. I love such shenenigans
The market manipulation you describe here is possible regardless of whether DAC and other "high value items" are lootable or not.
All it requires is for someone to be willing to spend a large wad of RL cash to transfer ingame currency from other players to themselves. You did it in EVE, somebody will undoubtedly do it in DU as well. Once that currency is concentrated in a single wallet, the shenanigans can commence !
Incidentally, that has been my objection to DAC (and PLEX) all along, but nobody on these forums seems to think it will be a problem. Nobody except you and me, it seems...
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4 minutes ago, Lethys said:
Only one plex hoarder cried because He sold way under price to me (spaistuff ftw). The rest of the whole marketplace (mostly carebears, pve players and Mission runners) cried Out because suddenly all of their daily needed stuff (Ammo, drones, ice, PLEX) had their pricetag increased by 200-400%. But that's fine, it's np. Only needed 6months to stability the Market again. That's ok, I Had my fun
That is indeed interesting.
So if the PLEX market "crashes" in EVE, all player-made items suddenly jump 200-400% in price ?
I've no clue why that would be the case, but given that DU's economy will be closely modeled on EVE, we can expect the same to happen in DU.
Except that in DU's case, the money supply is capped by NQ, so this effect is likely to be amplified. I wonder if NQ have considered this ?
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13 minutes ago, Lethys said:
That's why Eve ppls were raging then. Because it's np.
I don't mind, i like the "mimimi" posts on a forum xD
Oh, I have no doubt that the EVE PLEX hoarders cried long and loud when caught with their pants down in those bouts of market-PVP, lol
It must hurt to see several billion ISK wiped off the value of your PLEX portfolio overnight !
But I'd be interested to see why the consumers of PLEX (ordinary peons like me) would rage about a sudden massive drop in the cost of PLEX...
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11 minutes ago, Lethys said:
The DAC hoarder is the only one profiting....?
To "crash the market", someone has to flood it with low-price DAC. I'd be happy to buy cut-rate DAC anytime...
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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:
And you don't need to get your goods you buy from asia yoursel so where's your point.
It's just to prevent ppl from crashing the markets too fast, too often. Like we've Seen in eve so often. I could do that in eve with 50 plex in the old days, guess what happens when ppl with a substantial amount decide to drop them
Why is "crashing the market" a problem ?
It's only a problem for the DAC hoarders, for the rest of the playerbase it's Xmas with low-price DAC in abundance !
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12 minutes ago, Kurock said:
Just to clarify more: a snapshot is not a blueprint. It was mentioned by JC in the DM21 interview. The relevant transcript can be found here:
This is getting a bit ridiculous.
Maybe we should ask NQ for an article explaining their intent with snapshots and blueprints (master and normal) and how they all work together. Which can be sold, copied, looted and/or traded. @NQ-Nyzaltar please
Just add that request to the already looong list of "clarifications" that NQ have to provide on virtually everything in DU, lol
The terminology is a bit tricky in this case, the "personal snapshot" is not a "blueprint" per se, but it functions like one. However, as I specified, it cannot be used to make copies, etc. and won't be an inventory item AFAIK, which automatically means it cannot be traded. It's more like a "save point" in a single-player game.
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12 minutes ago, Lethys said:
yeah that won't work, everyone will just get the same level.... because everyone is interacting with everyone at some point. And shooting/killing shouldn't affect any automatic standing imho - because it's all player driven
Agreed.
The game should have a mechanic that allows YOU to assign a "standing level" to any player or org, but there should not be a global "rating of player based on their actions" that's decided by some game mechanic.
In fact, realistically you shouldn't be able to automatically identify the pilot of some random ship you encounter, much less which org it belongs to, unless it's displaying obvious markings or actively broadcasting some kind of ID signature. But I guess that would make the game too "hard"...
- CoreVamore and Lethys
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There's no shortage of land in DU... is there ?
If farming requires sizeable fields to grow crops, that could throw an entirely new light on the value of "good land" on planets. Barren planets would have to import food, etc., or could possibly grow crops commercially that don't do well on "earth-like" planets. Perhaps some exotic alien cactus-analogue has amazing medical applications !
If food and medical items become popular and sought-after in the game, then the means of producing the raw materials to make them can become a significant part of game play, and would provide an alternative to the current "mining is everything" scenario that DU will be starting with.
Agriculture and Forestry could also be used as a source for raw materials/chemicals needed in general industry, it doesn't have to be all about food and/or medicine. Various plants could provide sources of biofuels, acids, textiles, etc. that can be used to make and power ship elements.
Our civilization on Earth started with agriculture, after all.
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I have seen several posts claiming that "it's not NQ's intention to allow players to build 100% "safe" bases outside the safezone", and then using that claim to argue against underground bases, for instance.
That's nonsense.
NQ are not opposed to players building impregnable fortresses, but they ARE opposed to providing artificial game mechanics (like enforced arkship safezones) to allow that to be possible.
If players can design and fortify skilfully, it's not NQ's job to step-in and say: "Your design is too good, we can't allow you to make it that difficult for others to attack you"...
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1 minute ago, Kurock said:
That is correct. Blueprints are not safe. Master blueprints however have been planned to be account bound...(but nothing set in stone) Why are account bound master blueprints a good idea? Because information should never be lost in DU.
I could go so far as treating master blueprints like DACs: unlootable until traded the first time. But since tradable blueprints can be spawned off a master blueprint (with permissions to make new master blueprints or not) I don't think it's necessary.
Just to be clear: Master Blueprints MIGHT be bound to account, that has not been decided yet, so it cannot be described as planned.
Also worth distinguishing between the "personal snapshot BP" and an actual Master BP. I believe those will be separate things, with the former not being tradeable or used for making copies (.i.e. personal use only).
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Blueprints are NOT safe !
They are inventory items, and therefore will be lost when you die.
The only safe items in DU (other than the Quanta wallet) are those that are stored in a safe zone and never moved out of it.
And even in safe zones, the "safety" aspect is relative, because things can still be stolen under certain circumstances, unless kept in a container that only ONE person has access to.
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Keep in mind that DU will be a far more dangerous place than EVE !
Outside of a few (relatively small) designated "safezones", it's FFA-PVP everywhere, with complete loss of all items when you die. There's no NPC "space police" in DU to regulate things, and no concept of "high-security" space...
Unlike EVE, there's no network of invulnerable NPC space stations (with unlimited storage) to keep your stuff safe. Outside of the handful of safezones, you will have to rely on other players to protect your possessions.
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I'm sure DU will support 2560x1080 at release. It's a available in most new games nowadays.
I also use that resolution on an ultra-wide...
Depression?
in General Discussions
Posted
I have no doubt that there will be some serious instances of market-manipulation in DU.
People have had 15 years of practice doing it in EVE, after all.
But in DU, it may be a bit more tricky than it is in EVE, because any resource stockpiles will have to be kept in physical storage somewhere in the game world.
In EVE, you can sit in a station in Jita and buy millions of tons of ore on the market, it is automatically transferred to your hangar without ever entering the game world, and nobody ever knows that you've bought it, so you can operate with complete anonimity. When conditions are favourable, you can dump that massive stockpile onto the market again with the click of a button. The goods are never at risk, as long as you don't remove them from the station, and nobody has the slightest clue what your hangar contains, or how much of it. You don't even need to own a single ship to play the market in Jita.
If my understanding of DU's mechanics is correct, then anything bought at a market terminal will have to be collected from a dispenser attached to that market terminal. Those goods will then have to be transported to a container that you own, or kept onboard your ship. Presumably there will be some time limit on the collection, otherwise people will just use the dispensers as infinite "meta-storage".
People may not know what you're collecting, but they will notice if somebody is a regular "collector", but doesn't ever appear to be selling anything...
Those kinds of complications could make market manipulation a whole lot trickier in DU than it is in EVE.