Captain Hills

We sure can, we have 8 years of experience with NQ/DU, plenty of time to see how they operate. On top of that the game IS finished, they did a launch and it is sold as finished on Steam.
 
 

In the meantime already fully suspended my stuff and i just want my money back but that is probably a big no even though european law is at my side.
Amateuristical stuff like not acting on some people who break the rules but not on others is no way near any professional business. With that they killed their own game and the only thing left to save anything has to do with what all large companies do when personal causes the company to loose a great deal of money or prestige.

The servers are overloaded due to the influx of new players.

I logged in to check my skill queue and saw a new splash screen.
it's so fkkn funny that a game with basically no P2P brokered connections and downwards of a 100 players feels like they need to use an Anti-cheat.
 

Wrong. 
 
First, it helps people that are interested in the game -- they deserve to know if the developer charging them month-to-month is actually focused on the game. 
 
Second, it helps people that are already subscribed...NQ is clearly saying "we're working on other things", they just aren't keen on announcing it in places that most gamers see. People have every right to know what they're paying for and if DU is NQ's main priority, because the actual evidence sure doesn't indicate it is. 
 
Third, I'm not obligated to "help or get out of the way" (as if a post that no one reads is somehow "getting in the way" lol). If you disagree with my opinion, fine...you're free to articulate your opinion and explain your reasoning, too. 
 
But you aren't lord of the forum that gets to brand opinions or observations they don't like as "trolling".
 
To me, trolling people is attacking people personally instead of discussing the topic or focusing on opinions about the game.

It was a joke. But since there are only a dozen of us who actually post (first week noobs still thinking the game has a future and us shitposters) there's really no need to split the forum into single digit readership.

I would like to thank NQ for being reverse-toxic enough to finally break through my DU addiction and make me quit! I can't thank you enough, another game/publisher will also really appreciate the €500/year that will go to them instead of NQ...
 
I've been unhappy with DU (and specifically NQ) for a while now. The 180 degree turnarounds on things they announce/say in an official capacity, the wipe... My gawd the wipe! The wipe announcement! The 5+ months of 0 motivation due to the wipe announcement... The talent points after wipe. The 2.5 years of downgrading DU instead of introducing new interesting stuff... But even with the lack of actual enjoyment and the constant feeling that all I've build in DU will be taken away again, I was still here, probably because I was addicted enough to DU to keep coming back. I've done the asteroid mining thing again and that was kinda disappointing with the 5000L-6000L nodes, but maybe if I gitgut the experience might be more enjoyable (like in the old days)... Every time I need to extend my subscription I think more and more about the option of quitting, but I can't do that because reasons... (addict reasoning)
 
But this morning I got a ticket from NQ support... But I didn't submit a ticket and the email I initially got wasn't clear about it either (system not designed for reverse tickets). So I log in and I see the claim that my Airdock at Alioth Market 6 is above the 1000m limit. And I get a REALLY negative feeling, not specifically because I need to move my airdock to a lower altitude, the person at NQ that submitted the ticket to me could probably do that for me (and they can, I just need to move the dynamic cores)... But because of, why the heck could I deploy that there in the first place? That 1000m height limit didn't feel correct, I thought it was 1000m above ground level (but that was wrong as well). Why didn't that 'feel' correct? Because we get blasted with a TON of conflicting information all over the place and I loose track of what the 'current' rules are... So I went digging, this is what I found:
 
 
The 1000m height limit was posted during an Ask Aphelia sessions (by NQ-Deckard) and it was 1000m above sea level (5th of August):
 
Then we have NQ-Deckard's announcement (23rd of November):
"We will allow these constructs to remain for two weeks beyond the implementation of the new height restriction system."
 
Patch notes (24th of November) state:
https://www.dualuniverse.game/launcher/patch/release-1014
"Alioth: 1300m"
 
The 'new height restriction system' hasn't been implemented yet, so structures placed should be OK (according to NQ-Deckard) two weeks after the 'new height restriction system' has been implemented, which again, it isn't.
 
Even IF that did happen in the last two weeks, that was never mentioned in the patch notes, heck the whole issue was not mentioned in patch notes known issues section. The patch notes actually say that the limit is 1300m (which I'm still above) and not a 1000m as the support person mentions and wasn't changed in later patch notes, it's also the most recent height limit that NQ mentions and I could find.
 
The issue for me is not the having to move the dynamic constructs so the support person can move it to the proper height. But that this isn't the issue, it's the issue that I have to dig through all kinds of NQ publiced information and even the lastest info there (1300m) doesn't conform with what the support person is saying (1000m). That says a couple of things to me: It's a mess internally at NQ as they can't even coordinate among themselves the proper values that things should be and they can't communicate with us correctly either (known issues), as I was under the assumption this issue was fixed a while back. So that was pretty much the straw that was breaking the camels back for me. But maybe I'll calm down before tonight, the deadline to extend the subscriptions for two of my accounts....
 
Then I get the support ticket back... Which it short, doesn't address my issues and pretty much states "Thank you for you detailed response, it's appreciated. Now you have 24 hours to move those dynamic constructs away or we have to delete (the static constructs?) as they violate the rules. Thank you."... Yeah, I'm out, no waiting for this evening.
 
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

... The very nature of this game means that data cost per player monotonically increases as time and average asset accrual increases.

Unless they are literally rolling in paid up noobs who quit in their first year, there is no way they can avoid an eventual wipe and reset.
 
There will inevitably come a point when the amount of constructs a player has created causes the load in terms of storage and transfer to outstrip the monthly fee...  Centrally sourced single shards are, by their geometric nature of player-player interaction doomed to fall into decline if they support this level of data persistence.

There is still possibility of NQ somewhow (in wierd frankenstein way) integrading DU into their new "3d blog metaverse" thing.
 
But not sure if many people will like such continuation of game pseudolife.
 
 

Its hard to tell without serious inside, but I think decision to only maintain DU just as useful "showcase" (for future project/s) was done much well before. My guess with failed Beta start, that on itself was rather "last ditch effort", everyone involved from inside knew its not gonna make it -- and JC removal half year later just formalized the reality on the ground. And they jumped for some plan B, leaving several devs to cover their "retreat" and maintain development simulacrum for players.
 
I have some modest experience in web projects (including failed ones) and can vividly imagine this crisis meetings and cynical ideas going on. Maybe its something I be doing myself in this situation. Lying to players/clients. Its how buisness work (no ideally, but realisticly happens with failing ones).

Trick is DU isn't new by any stretch of imagination, whole dynamics with players base burn are like 7 years in making. So game closer to be old actually.
 
Other then this -- agree, its NQ chance to show something reasonably done for a change. PvE is years overdue, but I guess they only surrendered to it against "player driven" when there is no players left to drive anything.

It can easily not be beneficial.
 
For example, if sub money is being spent on other projects because they know DU isn't going to work out, that's clearly not beneficial to DU. 
 
I'm unclear why you would think that NQ would develop a "more commercial" product just to support a product that's bleeding revenue...their goal is to make money, not to do commercial side projects just to burn money on a product that has not worked. 
 
 
It's up to the developer to tell us that the game is alive by communicating about the future.
 
On one hand we have a small dev using resources on other projects, on the other we have an MMO with zero traction that's only bleeding players. What else are we supposed to think? 
 
I'm not saying the "game is dead", NQ is. That's what this announcements means to me, anyway. 
 
Regardless, I disagree with this idea that talking frankly about the state of the game is "not helpful" because it's negative. 

It's certainly helpful to new players that think this is a good game to invest their time and money into.
 
Even the devs would rather invest their time and money elsewhere, apparently. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. 

From scientific to DU, only the setting. No more.
I would call this genre - fiction for ignoramuses.
Only the maximum speed limit, depending on the mass, is worth something. In what science can you find it?
And there are plenty of other things that ignore the basic laws of physics. Not new undiscovered technologies (such as packaging of matter), but ignoring the basic science that exists now.
This is more and more like some kind of [filtered]ing fantasy with a damn shitty plot (more precisely, with its absence).
I agree that with JC there were many times more logic and connectivity. Since then, the game has turned into some kind of Frankenstein.

Hell no! It's a pure and bland sandbox, it has the potential for us to tell good stories. But the DU setting itself is virtually not existent, at the start of beta there was some hint of something more during events, but that was quickly squashed when the previous CEO left...
 
DU is the equivalent of mom getting a big box of LEGO, yelling "VROOM! This is a spaceship!" turning the box over in the middle of the living room. "You just crashed on a new planet, you need to rebuild!"... "I'll check back on you when you're 18 and I can kick you out of the house."... 😉

There are tons of good ideas in these forums - even some concerning the server-load long term to help them keep the costs down.
But whatever NQ does is totally weird, if the honest intention of NQ is to keep the game alive.
 
Bring back classic mining and fill those damn holes after 1-2 month if nobody was there again.
 
Make some energy limitation PER account to reduce to much load from factories. So the Multiboxer still have a reason to multibox for what they're happy to pay.
 
There's multiple formula which might work perfectly for DU. But NQ just cant or wont find them.
 
The rat race discussed on the topic is just an UNBELIEVEABLE thing to me. Ridiculous. 
I really blame NQ to let the game die, obviously. I'm not playing the game since release because I'm not fancy to loose all my progress again. And this will happen for sure, somehow.

Using normal 3D meshes yes, but not with voxels. All you have to do is to reset the voxel deformation back to default and voila normal filled in ground again. Remember that when you are removing something in a voxel space you are not really removing anything (doing so would corrupt the voxel structure), and instead you are just tagging the unused voxels as 'hidden' so they no longer render and cause collisions.
 
Edit.
And even filling in the holes is not the true optimal solution, since the main performance issue is that there is no culling performed what so ever when NQ is streaming voxels to the client.
 
So when you are flying over or just standing on the ground, NQ has to stream every underground hole and voxel change in your affinity regardless of if you can see them or not. So the entire thing is just another result of NQ's trademark "just make it work and fix it later (but they wont)" approach to game dev.

There are tons of good ideas in these forums - even some concerning the server-load long term to help them keep the costs down.
But whatever NQ does is totally weird, if the honest intention of NQ is to keep the game alive.
 
Bring back classic mining and fill those damn holes after 1-2 month if nobody was there again.
 
Make some energy limitation PER account to reduce to much load from factories. So the Multiboxer still have a reason to multibox for what they're happy to pay.
 
There's multiple formula which might work perfectly for DU. But NQ just cant or wont find them.
 
The rat race discussed on the topic is just an UNBELIEVEABLE thing to me. Ridiculous. 
I really blame NQ to let the game die, obviously. I'm not playing the game since release because I'm not fancy to loose all my progress again. And this will happen for sure, somehow.

There are tons of good ideas in these forums - even some concerning the server-load long term to help them keep the costs down.
But whatever NQ does is totally weird, if the honest intention of NQ is to keep the game alive.
 
Bring back classic mining and fill those damn holes after 1-2 month if nobody was there again.
 
Make some energy limitation PER account to reduce to much load from factories. So the Multiboxer still have a reason to multibox for what they're happy to pay.
 
There's multiple formula which might work perfectly for DU. But NQ just cant or wont find them.
 
The rat race discussed on the topic is just an UNBELIEVEABLE thing to me. Ridiculous. 
I really blame NQ to let the game die, obviously. I'm not playing the game since release because I'm not fancy to loose all my progress again. And this will happen for sure, somehow.

There are tons of good ideas in these forums - even some concerning the server-load long term to help them keep the costs down.
But whatever NQ does is totally weird, if the honest intention of NQ is to keep the game alive.
 
Bring back classic mining and fill those damn holes after 1-2 month if nobody was there again.
 
Make some energy limitation PER account to reduce to much load from factories. So the Multiboxer still have a reason to multibox for what they're happy to pay.
 
There's multiple formula which might work perfectly for DU. But NQ just cant or wont find them.
 
The rat race discussed on the topic is just an UNBELIEVEABLE thing to me. Ridiculous. 
I really blame NQ to let the game die, obviously. I'm not playing the game since release because I'm not fancy to loose all my progress again. And this will happen for sure, somehow.

In other words, DU is fundamentally flawed at the core of that part of the design.  
It didn't take a detailed plan to get ahead of 80% of the players, just an understanding of which tools were needed in what order and then putting in the grind.  The persistent nature of the design was always going to advantage the early adopters over new comers.  The FTUE implicitly puts new players on a path of gameplay that has been nerfed out of viability since launch which is WAY worse than just older accounts having more advantages.
 
I've tried mentally pulling this game apart from every direction and viewpoint to find solutions to suggest that would have positive impact but nearly every time the problems extend into and beyond the core of the design.  The little imperfections in creativity are what makes art, but serious flaws at the base layer can ruin the entire body of work.  The worst part of the exercise of trying to find ways to save DU is to discover a direct financial conflict of interest between the cost of the server and the sandbox nature of the game itself.  The more the game succeeds the more it fails and vice versa to a degree.  This conflict between the core gameplay features and the cost of operations is baked into the recipe and no amount of layering new features over time can remove this inherent flaw.
 
So dear, sweet Virginia; yes there is a Santa Clause but even he and his elves can't save DU from itself.
 

Here is my guess.
 
Many months from now once even NQ is forced to realize that nobody want's to play DU the way it is now, they will do some tweaks to the economy (surface ore, MU, schematics, tax, bots) in an effort to essentially turn back the clock and make players want to play again. And then with much fanfare they will release this as some major new version of DU.
 
And anyone who think we are going to get game changes that will make new interesting game loops any time soon (if ever), is in for some disappointment.

Even if they threw in TW tomorrow, it wouldn't be enough to turn things around.
 
We're beyond the point where one big change alone would be impactful enough to make the game work. 
 
Consider that a vast majority of the new players that quickly churned in month 1 or 2 never tried PvP -- hell, most of them probably never made it to space.
 
Introducing a new PvP feature isn't going to magically make them come back...nor will it change the realities around new player engagement.
 
With NQ's track record, TW as a fresh feature will likely be horrible -- I can see it working against them for engagement until they slowly get around to patching, and that's assuming their brittle stack can even handle it at scale. 
 
As for NPCs....it just isn't possible. It takes them months to push out stupid features no one cares about like skins...it would take them years to refactor the game to the point where NPCs could work. I can't emphasize enough how slow their dev is and always has been, and this won't change. 
 
It won't change because the entirety of their Steam subscriber base is likely not even enough to pay one person a decent wage...long term, churn will only get worse, here. There's no evidence that they can or will scale the game outside of Steam -- either organically or with paid ads. 
 
The game has too many weaknesses for one thing to magically reverse its fate.
 
If NQ really wants to fix things, it needs a series of radical extremely risky ideas...because honestly things are bad enough that they've very little to lose. Playing it safe with small updates in the hopes that fixing tiny bugs or pushing more marketing will change things is not going to work.
 
Meanwhile, the CEO is off to London to talk about the metaverse...so I'm sure NQ will remain focused and do what it needs to do! /s 

I just wish they would relies everything they have done from .23 on has ruined the game  and the fun they should just roll it all back and admit they messed the game up and bring back players and keep some new ones game was much moor fun in alpha  now All we do is micromanage and make things harder on new players  if I just bought this and was struggling so hard just  two make a simple ship two go mine or pvp I would quite fast two  I wonder how many bought this on steam played 2 days and asked for their money back  I’m only playing because I have DAC and keep hoping I hear some good news of a update that brings fun instead of nerfing it moor I should know better though if beta shows anything was no good new features came just took things away  or restricted moor 

I'd pay for a restore of my wiped belongings .. nice idea with the cash shop btw

The wipe was a much needed levelling pass because:
- some players had used large numbers of beta accounts to make billions from mission running, preventing the game from having a sensible economy
- players who left felt like they wouldn't be able to catch up and wanted a wipe to catch up again
 
but:
- players are once again making billions per day from mission running.  The economy is going to be just as broken again
- the wipe worked when it comes to getting players back.  But there was a reason most of them left and the game is arguably less of a game now than it was then.  Online player counts are crashing hard now (game peaks at a little over 200 now in steam vs 800 at launch)
 
So the wipe was a total fail and, as many have predicted, we will shortly be back where the game was before the wipe happened due to the apparent total ineptitude of the people managing the game.

A cash shop is just putting lipstick on the pig at this stage, frankly, and will not work.  In order for a cash shop to work there has to be a sensible number of players who actually play enough to want the in-game items.  In any case, when you have a game where everyone is mission running and the number of characters you have determines how much money you make, most people will find it hard to justify paying for that silly dance move (or whatever) when they could spend the money on a 1 month sub for another AFK mission character.
 
The wipe was a second chance.  But the thing about second chances is you have to actually take them instead of repeating past mistakes.