Cabana

It would be cool though to be able to hide those insulting 0.0x buy orders.
I really wish NQ is doing something against those stupid "offers", Its insulting me somehow.
Some ppl really try to catch some stupid guys by being stupid themselves. I hate that picture.
 
I allready found it non-sensical todo dedicated production streets before 0.23 but allmost everybody was doing it since it meant less micromanagement
dedicated lines is a very good method to get/have some educts available - just in case you need some for what ever product. In my case its only the WarpCells - production line which makes sense for that.
 
I can never afford a WarpBeacon Schematic for sure. But thats okey because its not the goal for a lonely wolf.
But I can afford a lot of other things even if I sell ore to NPC. I dont understand all those ppl complaining. I just invested half of my money to craft the DSAT and Niobium Honeycomps JUST BECAUSE, and not to sell but to simply have it. If I miss a Schematic, I go out and do my mining until I can buy it.
 
Still I have faith it is going to be the best product among it´s competitors.
I like your positive impulse, I also hope NQ can balance it well to attract new players. And again, new Players needs to have a hand and an easy "starter" into that complexability.
 
Finally I'm sure, if there is an "production" energy *contingent for each player - they could do a living market and create goals for bigger orgs and for little ones too.
 
 
*a contingent which you can divide for yourself and/or your cooperation 

Thank you all for replying . 
Seems NO is more often wanted but ...
I will keep bumping a few more weeks unless NQ dont want me to ....
Just to get more people opinion .
 
So 
 
Bump
 

No.

First off, I was allready kind of burned out before 0.23 came out, so 0.23 broke my neck. Yes I can confirm that it also ruined all links on my ship and some lua (not that I was doing anything impressive so I don´t even understand how it could have been broken, but I still haven´t bothered to look at it) which was additional annoyance that arrived at the worst moment. But now I understand how important schematics are to the economy... We were all kind of doing everything at once, each on their own, or at least people without an org were.
 
A few things I´ve read and like to adress:

So the claims that you can´t sell ore or only at 0.02 are ridiculous, I sold hematite at 64 shortly before the asteroid update, granted it was probably at an all time high but as the economy is developping the prices are actually starting to make sense - buy and sell orders were allmost the same price for a hot second. I could see the prices rise with sustended volumes and correctly predicted very close to peak price, knowing 0.26 would increase supply again. It would be cool though to be able to hide those insulting 0.0x buy orders.

Researching schematics sounds like the worst idea, a similar update made me never play Empyrion again: instead of demanding grind, or alternatively brains and a little less grind, locking schematics to talents is telling the player "you won´t craft this before a year from now no matter how much effort you put into it". I´m also not sure if I´d want "you only need one schematic of each" because that sounds like we will be back to how the economy was before but with extra steps for beginners. I allready found it non-sensical todo dedicated production streets before 0.23 but allmost everybody was doing it since it meant less micromanagement, even if they were far from keeping it running 24/7.  What would be cool would be an element actually called schematics bank, that acts for the whole core, because  reading 20 schematics that all start with the same words is anything but fun.


And as to souriceau´s post: it is a fair summary. But one could also do a summmary that puts things into the perspective of: actually the delays on them reaching their goals have been extremly reasonable since beta launch. Yes the latest roadmap is a bit lackluster but guess what, it only goes until fall, which is pretty soon actually. They started with the hard parts, I´m confident they will be able to tie it all together. Wether the court of public opinion will still look favourably upon NQ once it´s finally done is another question though. But it´s a very hardcore game being made for adults but requiring amounts of time no adult actually has anyway. Still I have faith it is going to be the best product among it´s competitors.

I say keep schematics for impressive items such as AGGs, non-basic entities (engines etc) and T4-5 items. Basic items, however, should be craft-able by everyone from anywhere without schematics. If this game is supposed to have PvP on planets in the future, it would be important to be able to make basic defensive ships on site, or ships to travel from a hidden resurrection node. Basic entities are super cheap at this point anyway, and those who would be benefiting are those that aren't near the main markets.

Very true, but i, sadly played the game almost a year before the update, so I lost everything that i could build, and now, some of the support is less than worthy to be called trash... (some are really great! So i'm torn about the help topic). (Just as example, I was flying and died, twice, while flying with the same ship i used before the update with no issues, Support, then told me i was the issue, so as for support, i have made some very(!) Mixed feelings, since the craft worked finr before the 0.26.2 update. And trying to get money after now joining again (RL job loss), it's basicly just log in every day, since you can't earn money with ores any more... and if you tell support, there was an error and you suddenly died and lost your ship, nope, it's your fault, not the game, I have had the issue multiple times, so, yeah, let's see how this game and support continues. 
 
So, if you have a small vehicle, be careful, you may fly with it and die with no reason!
 

I was shoked with 0.23 as well.
But seriously .. a little scanning&mining&selling ores and I was able to craft anything I needed to build my ships/base whatnot - I could afford military M and L drives with the time and I'm crafting more then I did before just for myself - so yes, there is a little grind needed if someone wants to run his own factories but its worth it !
 
I'm just glad I did it.
And I think it was the right step for the game to introduce schematics for performance reasons.
But I agree with @Verliezer  - new players should have a way to craft *anything without schematics to learn the game, I think that's very important for the future of DU.
 
* T1, limited production - e.g. not possible to sell on a market

I got my beacon for like 8mil so that's ok, no one else needs to have em. Don't remove schematics.

Schematics are ok for higher tier kinda industry. For starting players it would be good if all tier 1 stuff can be created without schematics.
 
overall I am happy with the game. It is not perfect but I like it. Mining is something I do to keep my industry running. In this way you don’t have to mine a lot. My focus is on industry and building nice things.

Tip: either come back everyday to get the 150k quanta or dont bother to return, nothing will change atleast that is the expected outcome of the 0.23 massacre. the 150k everyday will make it possible to slowly buildup your schematics

I had stopped playing the game when schematics were added. Just came back to take a look at how the game is progressing but I have to admit now that my whole factory doesn't work anymore I have no idea what to do in the game. I have checked a few random schematics on the market but I couldn't afford to buy more than a few. Guess I will come back in a few months to see how it's going...

Not like it matter, but I guess its even 4th, if we go detailed way.
 
1) Initial KS backers  ("something not right")
Game postponent over 2 years Methodical downgrade of KS promises with less and less to be delivered realisticly any time soon (AvA) Start of legendary NQ comms to take negative effect on community First suspicions about JC lying about progress  2) "Alpha" players (disapointments over sharp difference of KS-promises and actual game delivered)
Disgusting technical state of game Painfully slow development progress Choking NDA clearly made to hide miserable reality of game for better sales Total ignore of player feedback Obvious signs of JC lying about state of game/perspectives Futher cuts/downgrades in game features on road to Beta Refinement of bad comms (somewhat saved by Naerais tacticaly) 3) "Beta" wave (revelations of true state of affairs)
False, misleading adverts Shitty launch with previous feedback ingored Lack of mechanics/content Carebear paradise with overdone SZ M15 cringy NQ reaction Endless, industrial scale exploits, ruining economy 0.23  Schematics scandal Naunet left and it left sour taste over NQ happenings Basicly no progress for half of year Bad comms achieve peak JC cowardly flight and overall decline of morale SB temptations 4) Derelict stubborn survivors and brave new noobs (any hope?)
Much more punishment oriented community managment. In process...  
 

Problem is that NQ is already well ahead in generating a second generation of disillusioned players. And how many tries do they get before no one wants to play anymore?

At this point, removing schematics would have been contraproductive. 
Schematics are, on fundamental level, the right call. The problem was its shallow implementation and outright disastrous rollout ingame.
NQ seems to go to EVE for ideas quite often, which is fine, but when taking a page out CCP's workbook, it would have been wise to read that page first, and read it with comprehension before slapping it on sticky note in the office.
 
Having said that, i belive it doesn't really matter anymore. Those who left past 0.23 are not comming back, 0.23 wasn't a cataclysmic event, to many it was just the last straw that broke the camel's back.  I suspect many of the very same people still lurk around the forums from time to time, but it's more out of curiosity how the final act plays out , than of a desire to buy a ticket to the movie to watch it again. 
 
NQs best bet is to cater to the white unicorn crowd ( regardless of the size it is ) that came after,  who discovered DU in the state it is now and are not burdened by dissapointment with the end product of grand promises and lofty goals JC sold to original backers.
 
 
I keep warning you. Doors and corners, kid. That's where they get you.

Very helpful thread, makes me realise that the masses of us who left post .23 will never be returning as the vast majority would be voting Yes here so obviously all those left will be voting No.

That's the best time to join.

Hello all, I thought I would take the time to write up a summary of the events that led to the creation of Legion. For those unaware, Legion is a new pvp alliance formed from a group of former Ascendancy member orgs and as far as i know, Legion is the largest alliance in DU at the moment in terms of character count and fleet size.

The buildup to this mass exodus from AC was a long time coming. The first issue being an issue of many orgs in DU, afk leadership. AC was plagued with afk leaders and in a few cases entire organizations that had moved on to other games but did not step down from leadership or giving up their voting powers. These people would continue to vote on important issues and control the actions of the people who actually play the game. For example a vote was started in the AC to ban the shooting of ships in pvp space unless they shot first, effectively banning any control over space resources. This was voted on and decided by people who primarily didn’t play the game.

After months of only a small subset of AC players actually helping and contributing to the growth of the Alliance the catalyst for the departure was the announcement of asteroids. ATOM attempted to pass a vote requiring all AC orgs to participate in the defense of space assets. This vote ended up failing with the majority of the votes cast by players who no longer played the game or who never participated in the alliance in general.

Du has evolved from the beginning, while at first the only thing that mattered was the amount of people in your du community org, to building as a group because of a lack of a market, to single players being able to buy and build everything possible in the game. The game has changed from being a solo minecraft type game to a game where cooperation matters and more, specifically pvp Space matters. Having easy access to missions, the best way to make money in the game. To asteroids in space having the most valuable resources in the coming patch. Knowing who has your back, who will be there to help you without thinking, and who is in it only for themselves has become extremely important.

Legion was founded on these ideas. Getting access to the best income and resources in the game through pvp. Creating the largest fleet to ensure the safety of this income. Generating content to keep people engaged and playing. And generally improving our skill and members standing in the universe.

Signed,
Mulligan
Super legate of ATOM
Executive of Legion

That is why I wish new Players to have the chance to learn the Game the way I could.
There is no need to sell ore in the very beginning, but anyone should be able to craft the needed parts for the first crash-rides.
 
Apart of that problem, the schematic restrictions help to improve the singleshard-performance (okey, thats an assumtion I admit)

How many of the no people are new to the game? That have no money and get 0.02 for 100 000 pure ores? When a new player can't even mine that much!

No.
But allow beginners on Sanctuary to craft all T1 with an energy limited industry but without any schematics to learn the thing.
Also implement energy contingents for each player to limit the concurrent running boxes to disperse big portions of production chains.

Tech trees..  Another example how NQ fails at UI/UX.
Considering how relatively linear and simple the talent 'tech three' in DU is, it is amazing that they still managed to make an UI that makes it impossible to get an overview and look at the relations between different talents.

I'm a fan of tech trees... I think that DU should somehow introduce research as an alternative to purchasing.
NMS has a decent enough (but still too simplistic IMO) tech tree. IIRC, you can research blueprints on your base computer or "unlock" them with tech tokens. You can also buy some from vendors on stations, it's not perfect, but it's better and more engaging than DU's approach.

No, I like them.

No, the market was worse before schematics. Most schematics are pretty cheap anyways,.

100% No - they are fine. I believe people should have to make decisions as t where they put their money.

Short answer, No. Dont take them out. Leave them in. 
 
Before schematics, If you did any type of production and you wanted something. You would just build it.  With schematics it makes you decide, hmm should I build this myself. or should I buy it off the market.  And if your someone who sells things, you should actually like this. Because in most cases people are going to run the math and decide that its cheaper to buy it off the market rather then buy the schematic and produce it themself.