merihimRefin

hi, here would be my question to NQ team:
You write: - A complete wipe (except blueprints) with solutions to allow old players to quickly rebuild their favorite constructs through various means.
 
This would favor only builders, the people who made industry and grind the quantas for schematics are not considered. This is an unfair advantage for master builders. Also people who have made advanced Lua scripts will be favored since they have local backups.
 
For me there are only two options, complete wipe including blueprints (where Lua scripters still have a big advantage) or no wipe.
 
One more note from me, I joined DU at the end of the alpha because I didn't want to play alphas anymore and where did I end up, in an alpha, I joined because they promised a persistent world. As an entrepreneur you should make final decisions and not hesitate, then the customers know where they stand.
 

Well, have you ever wondered why people are playing Mindcraft? Some humans are more creative than destructive, that's all.

Thankfully NQ isn't operating out of Germany and or under its jurisdiction?
 
But yeah, I only played DU because it billed itself as a Persistent MMO. Charging a monthy sub... so to me it was 'launched' as a service, even if still in Beta. 
 
Being a persistent MMO is one of the only things that separates it from soooo many other games. Second to the scripting language, and voxel system. Beyond that the features are lacking compared to NMS, Avorian, Space Engineers, Elite, empyerion, etc.. where they don't have those key features that make DU unique but are still in the space games genere.  All of which I love, but keep coming back to DU for what makes it unique. 
 
I don't think NQ is done with massive game changes, even after release they may need to revamp a system and be arguably back at the same technical point where a wipe is the easy option....
 
We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. -JFK 
 
Persistenance
 
adjective 1. continuing firmly or obstinately in a course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition.

Have you ever heard of a Korean grind MMO or the Grind in Warthunder? Listen if one of these games ever did a Wipe the outcry would be so epic one would hear about it on the news. Archage solved dwindling server populations by merging servers and making fresh start ones that later were merged into older ones. Why should this be an outlandish idea for DU when it is a common thing? But it seems that to nuke the server is the only thing they take into consideration from how it reads.
 

Yeah I'm sure you've been exclusively playing games where progress is gated by timers that can not be completed in an evening gaming session, for 30 years. Go cry in a corner but spare me the protestant work ethics.
 
 
 
I don't care if some got rich illegitimately, because like 4 days into launch there were allready huge balancing issues and I made a conscious choice back then to focus on my progress and what I can do, and that I'm not going to put it in question everytime there is a new ooopsie.

That's because video games changed in some categories so much. A new kind of video games is to build a virtual world of your own imagination and many others at the same place and the same time. If you play around with photoshop to create a nice desktop wallpaper for example and for some reason it would take one year every day a few hours. And then at the end you want to back up it to have this amazing piece of your own creativity forever, but photoshop tells you, they have to redo their software, and you can not back up your file. And now consider you have created this wallpaper together with friends in all that year. A very intense time.

And now you want to compare that with playing video games ?
No offense, but not sure how a "modern content creation" games can be compared to older video games.
And now consider a "player driven content game" where the player can't keep their content......
THAT what makes me want to cry ^^
 

I don't care what others got thru exploits. I played legit grinded legit killed ships legit and don't feel like I was left behind or was not competitive in PvP. What I do care about is that the 2 years grind would be made a waste of time. What others got thru exploits was negated by anyone running missions. These were nerfed to the ground and no serious Missionrunner considers still fly any mission anymore. That means also no more Hauler kills for any PvP guy the rest besides missions can be warped. A surplus of sz roids and MU took away the need to go rare exotic roids for ores reduced chance for fights and kills for PvP players once again. So if you are a PvP player how would you feel if they take you earned kills in form of a graveyard away do you think that is fair ? Scripters can be day one selling scripts, Builders can sell BP. Just the progress of those that mined fought and traded is taken away. Once again is that fair?

Pardon, but I have the answer about the wipe already.
For sure, there will be a 100% Full Wipe. No blueprints at all, no talent points.

Why ? Because NQ did it always. First they announced a partial reset, and said what they wanted to keep. Then a few days before reset they said : "Well, we made a new decision, probably it will be best to not let players, who spent month in scanning territories, keep their scan reports."

So somehow NQ is SOOOOOOOOO much scared of being unfair to, not even knowing new player yet, that they rather hurt the player which  they know very close and get money from. Player who spend time, money, creativity and passion in it.
Sometimes player in here say it is no content in the game. Sorry, but then you need to play a story driven game rather than a "player creativity content creation" game if you don't get it, there will be no one, taking your hand and leading you to a map with thousends of quests all over the map. 

And WE MADE CONTENT already. It took countless hours every day. Content in terms of nice ships, elevators, bases, cities, infrastructure and amazing scripts of real geniuses.

So my beloved NQ team, do you think most of us can repeat that after a wipe ?
Put same energy and lifetime into it ?
And now, please read carefully :
TO ALWAYS KNOW, THAT IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE WITH A LITTLE PLUGIN OR WHATEVER, IT CAN ALWAYS BE A WIPE AGAIN !!!
"NQ" and the word "persist" does somehow not fit together anymore. 
How can we start over again and put again years in the game, to create something we can keep as long as WE want to keep it (because we pay money to NQ) and not how long NQ "allows" us to keep it ? 
It is 100% your game, and you proved it a few times already to the community.
And please do NOT start promising : "this will be the last wipe in the game"
Me as a comedian, I know how hard it is to find a punchline like this !

What are your thoughts after the wipe ?
Most player will start again from scratch PLUS thousands of new player because the player news in social media channels are that great ? 

Not sure how this can be happening.
I think it could really be the last wipe. Simply because there will be no player anymore to recognize your next wipe after this one.

Please also think about your code and backend technic!
Why on earth...erm......Alioth, do you need so much resets and wipes always before you are going to do a "big" change ?
What about a big change in, let's say, 5 years ? Will you do a wipe then ? (don't smile, say "no", and believe yourself now !)
Do you think there will be always 450k NEW player after a wipe ?

Consider EVE or other games have to act like this ?
To let people pay constantly in beta AND doing resets and wipes isn’t the best idea, huh ?

But for sure also after this, you are going to do a full wipe !
By the way, I always supported you in our community if someone said : "uhh, they changed color of some voxels" "uhh, they made a change here, i dont like" and so on. I always said: "You try different ways to play the game, so let NQ also try different ways to put game mechanic in."

But i truly never thought you would announce a wipe !

Many of us (if not all) would have not put so much energy in building bases (also underground bases dug up) which took years. And now since a few of us dug up their 24 L core underground base because of your surface reset and your tool only could dig out squares and this could not give back the shape the base had before. So after this week's and month of work again, to restore the look of such building you tell us: "There will be a wipe" ? Wow ! Your Balls having the size of Jago and Teoma !

You always told us, this is a fantastic persist world. That's why a lot of player took this serious and creates amazing things because we have known (because we did trust you) IT WILL BE PERSIST.

And now you say: "LOL, no, i´ts not"
 
Me personal, I stopped playing the game at all because I have following projects in DU right now:

- copy/paste my 24 L core space station to a new place because I moved base and I love the caterpillar elevators and want to use them in the future.
 
- calculating a few ships where we want to sell in future
 
- calculating mining outposts, also for selling.

- building base and infrastructure
 
 
The Reason I stopped playing is: How much sense does it make, to work on my projects, if I don't know your decision ?
So by the way, how long will that take in your mind, until we worth it, to hear your decision  ?
 
Last thing: How could a full wipe work to be fair for everybody ?

me, i did a lot of digging ores and then build a factory and got my quanta on this way = after a wipe, gone = very long time to have that many quanta and luxury items again after wipe .
 
Others were creating amazing ships with very nice designs = also gone and also long time to get it back to this level
 
 
And what about our amazing LUA scripting geniuses ? 
First minute in game after wipe = copy/paste all scripts from *.txt files back into game.
So scripter have a 100% backup of all work AND have a "ready to sell" product in about 60 seconds after first login after wipe.

We "builder" do not have such a backup or a "ready to sell" product.

So talking about "fair to all" ? How does this fit into your world ?

Make your decision good, but make it SOON.
Meetings every day, and no vacation until decision.
This is just a splinter, you owe us!
You already have stolen us enough real life time.

But I know that you probably not wanted to hurt anyone of us.

So I wish you a great day and a good progress to your decision.
 
Dylan Hunt
(always for a good commonwealth)
 

 

Well, i already canceled my subscriptions, and when a wipe happens i never return. It's a matter of trust. A company that does'nt keep their promises is not trustworthy - i'll spend my money elsewhere.
 
And by the way - a dissatisfied customer spreads the word far more than one who is satisfied - this whole thing will damage the reputation of NQ far more than they may think.
 

Players have already left, and they won't come back because they've found happiness elsewhere. I would not come back either, depending on the decision whether and how a wipe would be carried out and why.
Of course, it's a niche game, but that's why it's very important to care about every player, otherwise such a game will get into trouble. Would not be the first game that closes the gates.

This fairness argument is so delusional and absurd. Let's say the server starts on 08/01/22, then every player joining this game one, two or 6 month later is entitled to call this an unfair game. 
I would have absolutely nothing against a wipe if NQ hadn't made people pay money for the beta. For me and many others, the start of the beta was the release of the game.

One second while I get 100 alt accounts created so I can bring 5,000 items with me. Bringing SP would negate the main reason for a wipe, which would be to attract new players to a fresh even world. 
 
However I dont think there should be a wipe in the first place. No reason for it. Economy is not so broken that a wipe will make everything great again. New players are not going to flock to the game because its a fresh wipe. If players only joined fresh games eve would have died out long ago. 

hm one always existing universe 
that was the promise
 
beta wipe ... meeew ok ... last one i promise u  .. 
 
release wipe .... ohhh again ? 
 
what in 12 month ? next wipe after hours of farming building creating ? 
 
do we have seasons now ? 
sarcasm off 
 
plz remind your old player who took the way with u .
 
i LOVE U NQ 
such nice game ... but keep your promise 
 
only my 2 cents 

NQ has slapped a few peoples wrists today... Just gotta make funnier memes? So far I've had zero warnings for the memes I've made, and I've made some spicy ones.  Maybe the powers that be at NQ still leiks me, idk. Will say that before this mess I was more "constructive" in my posting on the forums, now it's mostly satire to stoke the flames of constructive discussion. Though the line between satire & trolling is pretty thin....

From the sounds of it several people have been reprimanded in the last few hours on the forums. The sad thing, instead of working to communicate and work with their community to resolve the issue(they created through multiple wipe mentions without an answer, and continue to pick at the scab!) they let it fester like a wound... day after day. and now their stop-gap is to start reprimanding people that are upset for what I see as largely legitimate reasons... for many MMO's are hobbies, and playing for many is a hobby due to the time investment. 

This is the first time playing a game where I've been this upset with the developers... have wanted to tell them how it is and well... doom/gloom. Have written a couple things out and was like 'Nah, this is just over the line' and figured "if I didn't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"... which is sad, I love DU, the community at large, and there are several key developers I think are legitimately trying to make it work under not the most ideal conditions on a tech/platform that does something no other game really does with pieces that no other platform uses.

Feels bad man.

I am against a wipe. The initial statement was that there won't be a wipe. So i started playing right from the start. I invested lots of time and money for different accounts in this game. And now the discussion of a maybe wipe is like a kick in the balls.
If NQ would have said right from the start they will wipe on release every1 would have  known. Now to change that is a no go.
 
I know many players who like me would stop playing cause after 2 years of playing and time investing in the game and now all gone and start from scatch sucks. I don't wanna wait to skill my chars back up and i don't want to rebuild all including ships and buildings etc.
 
So NQ should get their story straight. Don't sell us shit at Beta start and than change some of the main promises you made!
 
I got 9 paied accounts....those will be gone for sure......
 
Just my 5 cents......

Yes actually. I have a limited time budget for games, and this will be the final push I need to try some other games I have had my eyes on.

NQ can you please give us some sort of idea when you will be releasing wipe details??
 
Many of us are not interested in your Easter Egg hunt or doing anything else until we know the details of the wipe.
 
Any info is appreciated.
 
Thanks

Replying to a bait posting, I should know better 🙂
 
But for me, no I'm not looking forward to it. For me the game is the things that I do once I have gotten myself to a place where I have enough quanta and materials to be able to do things, without having to worry about where the quanta/materials to do it are going to come from. Getting the materials for me is the chore I need to do in order to be able to play the game. Each time a major gameplay change comes, I need to spend time adapting to that (more chore), before I can settle in again to play. I'm just about over Demeter.
 
So do I want to repeat the grind process again over another year (I play slowly), just so that I can get to where I am now to let me actually (gasp) play the game? Absolutely not.

Wiping talent points is entirely unecessary from a technical perspective, and frankly a slap in the face.

First of all how better to prove NQ's word doesn't mean anything. I waited like one and half year to reach buffs on T3 ore and products. I don't know who they intend to sell this game to, but my life expectancy is like 70 years. One and a half year of my life is not something I can just pull out of a magic hat, and I spent them freaking WAITING to get those points.

I feel like none of you seem to realize that if they wipe talent points, the first month is so asininely predictable, one was to wonder what the fück one is playing for: "great I know that if I maintain 90xp/min, 30 days from launch I can have either decent inventory buffs, either decent MU buffs, either decent mining buffs, or maybe I'm able to operate most industry elements, or place cores of all sizes....... but 30 days from launch it will be either a single one of those choices, or being between lvl2 and lvl3 in all of these".


When it comes to DU I've had the patience of a saint, but again: why would I put in 30 times 4 hours if I can extrapolate to the liter where I'd be  30 days from then, if I stick to my boring AF plan. You people seriously want to live through that for such a short-lived high? I joined the alpha like 4-5 months before the launch... I restarted in this game 3 times in a row within a year, because somehow they had to wipe a month before launch. Seriously it's not that fun, I don't think I can do it anymore, if I'm quickfeeted my goal should then be to convert the DAC I'm owed in to real life currency, cut my losses. More realistically I'd just stop looking and caring, probably.



And what about the people who were rewarded XP for bringing people into the game with referral codes? Just a slap to the face.

Your daily reminder that multiple NQ staff in multiple channels, verbally and in writing, said we would get 'magic blueprints' if they ever needed to do a wipe:
 

 
(1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..."
(4:45) "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc
(58:26) "It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg
(15:53) "Everything you build is forever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD00-V_LKog
(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

EDIT: 
Message removed for advertising another game in a thread dedicated to feedback on Dual Universe. 

@yamamushi We can understand you're upset about changes in the development of Dual Universe and we're thankful for all the involvement you had in the Dual Universe community during several years. If at some point you want to come back on the game, you will be welcomed. However, all this doesn't give you the right to have such behavior on the forum.
 
Best Regards,
NQ-Nyzaltar
 

One of the first things they teach you in game design (in college) is there is a list of things you do not take away from a player at all cost.
 
In approximate order of importance:
 
Name/Identity Unique Achievement Progression Time Currency NQ attempts to prevent the loss of 4. Time with talent points and BP retention but with a full wipe they would take away almost everything on this list except for 1. Name/Identity. Maybe we can hit that one too by making the name database reset to give a fair playing field on names. Super unfair that beta players got an advantage on reserving names
 
 

Sorry this is going to be long...
 
NQ's approach towards the live server has been one of this being a live game for the entire beta:
Players that have to pay monthly to play a game (not a test) No major wipes or even reversions of the server to fix major exploits (not a test) A promise of no wipes unless there were catastrophic and unavoidable issues (not a test) Changing game design to make the game more grind oriented in order to slow player progression (not a test) NQ's Pro and Con list is so bias it is a joke. One of the major Cons they did not mention (or possibly erroneously put in the pros) is making DU an empty world for launch. How this could be a Pro is beyond me. You have had veteran players who have the most game knowledge building content for your game over cumulative hundreds of thousands of hours through bugs and changes. You have had free content created for your game that has virtually no inerrant content and you want to delete it? 
 
This brings me to another point of NQs complete lack of understanding of the scale of their own game world. You have had the entire DU player base building stuff in this game world for multiple hours a day since the start of beta and we have only built up things on a tiny fraction of it. Also, this is in your mind on an accelerated timeline because of exploits and game design flaws. You want to reset everything and everyone on a slower progression because you think you will bring in more players because of a "clean slate" at launch?
 
Even with 10,000 active players working 5-8 hours a day to build things it would take them years to cover even a large portion of just Alioth. If the balance of current construction and accumulated wealth is so game breaking that you need to wipe then you have almost 0 hope of keeping it balanced with a healthy population of players. The game's scale is massive... Is the aim to have an empty solar system forever? Barren, virtually untouched nature preserves? That seems to be the goal if you are truly worried about wiping based on current economic progression. 
 
My personal experience is I have been playing this game since Alpha 1 with a group of 10-20 players. We built up a lot in Alpha but held back as we knew there would be a wipe at the launch of Beta. When we were told there would be no wipe unless things went completely off the rails we put our strongest effort in building a city and progressing in the game as it was designed using 0 exploits. Over tens of thousands of hours we built a unique city, space station and community. We took all of the changes through Beta in stride as we knew in the end we would keep our progression and our hard work was still worth something. With a wipe our completely unique and unreproducible city (Freeport, Teoma) will be gone forever as it will be impossible to recreate even with magic blueprints. It would even take NQ a massive effort to put it back together as it currently is. The city is fully functioning and all it needs is more players in the game to flourish. With a wipe it will just be gone forever. 
 
NQ has all of the tools at their disposal to be accurate and concise about fixing any problems keeping current progression would cause. They could use a scalpel but it seems they are leaning towards using a sledgehammer instead. If you wipe the game I will say best of luck and watch it fail from afar but that is okay as it makes the decision for me to play the game at release very easy. 
 
 
 

We already have people making spreadsheets and max efficiency charts to smash after a wipe, just in case. We can make the org even better and more streamline. Just the people resource we have makes us ahead of any new player and most orgs that would ever come into game. Even day one. 
 
An wipe isn't going to solve a thing except putting a big speed bump in the road and pissing people off in the process. unless more interesting and investing gameplay loops are introduced or flushed out. (Looking at you salvage wrecks)
 
Also can you explain to me how a wipe will make everyone on a level playing field. I can play 60 hours a week, I read every forum post, discord chat and website concerned with DU. I watch every video and chat with every DU player I can to learn everything I can to better myself. The gap will always exist for those that don't (not my problem)
 
I help everyone I can in game. I give away quanta and spend countless hours helping people learn to voxal and teaching them how game mechanics work. Which is more valuable than any new player experience imo.
 
These issues that you would like to wipe away because people exploited are really annoying yes but it's all self inflicted. Not to mention you have the logs and could discipline those people at will and you haven't.
 
You have a test server and those items never got fully tested because the PTS. The window was always so small and it's a pain to get people to test when on the PTS you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to even begin to test. Should just have all the SP and the PTS markets should have everything for 1 quanta.  Maybe ingame incentives to get people to log into the PTS?

And is it realistic to expect a new player to be able to compete with established veteran players after a couple of days?
 
So for the nth time, a wipe does not sole anything.
The only thing a wipe does is to move the goal post, so that a new set of players get to feel special and get ahead of the next wave of players.
 
And I strongly suspect that many of the people who talk loudly about wipe and "fairness", are veteran players looking for a fresh start so that they can use the knowledge base to maximize their strategies during the wipe rush and win big.