Doombad

I like it and have thoroughly enjoyed the launch so far. I was furious over the wipe. Still a bit disappointed. That said, it has been refreshing to be poor and manage through rebuilding. 
 

Favorite: People's creativity and ability to do what I want
Most hated thing: Poor execution by NQ
 

I would like to thank NQ for being reverse-toxic enough to finally break through my DU addiction and make me quit! I can't thank you enough, another game/publisher will also really appreciate the €500/year that will go to them instead of NQ...
 
I've been unhappy with DU (and specifically NQ) for a while now. The 180 degree turnarounds on things they announce/say in an official capacity, the wipe... My gawd the wipe! The wipe announcement! The 5+ months of 0 motivation due to the wipe announcement... The talent points after wipe. The 2.5 years of downgrading DU instead of introducing new interesting stuff... But even with the lack of actual enjoyment and the constant feeling that all I've build in DU will be taken away again, I was still here, probably because I was addicted enough to DU to keep coming back. I've done the asteroid mining thing again and that was kinda disappointing with the 5000L-6000L nodes, but maybe if I gitgut the experience might be more enjoyable (like in the old days)... Every time I need to extend my subscription I think more and more about the option of quitting, but I can't do that because reasons... (addict reasoning)
 
But this morning I got a ticket from NQ support... But I didn't submit a ticket and the email I initially got wasn't clear about it either (system not designed for reverse tickets). So I log in and I see the claim that my Airdock at Alioth Market 6 is above the 1000m limit. And I get a REALLY negative feeling, not specifically because I need to move my airdock to a lower altitude, the person at NQ that submitted the ticket to me could probably do that for me (and they can, I just need to move the dynamic cores)... But because of, why the heck could I deploy that there in the first place? That 1000m height limit didn't feel correct, I thought it was 1000m above ground level (but that was wrong as well). Why didn't that 'feel' correct? Because we get blasted with a TON of conflicting information all over the place and I loose track of what the 'current' rules are... So I went digging, this is what I found:
 
 
The 1000m height limit was posted during an Ask Aphelia sessions (by NQ-Deckard) and it was 1000m above sea level (5th of August):
 
Then we have NQ-Deckard's announcement (23rd of November):
"We will allow these constructs to remain for two weeks beyond the implementation of the new height restriction system."
 
Patch notes (24th of November) state:
https://www.dualuniverse.game/launcher/patch/release-1014
"Alioth: 1300m"
 
The 'new height restriction system' hasn't been implemented yet, so structures placed should be OK (according to NQ-Deckard) two weeks after the 'new height restriction system' has been implemented, which again, it isn't.
 
Even IF that did happen in the last two weeks, that was never mentioned in the patch notes, heck the whole issue was not mentioned in patch notes known issues section. The patch notes actually say that the limit is 1300m (which I'm still above) and not a 1000m as the support person mentions and wasn't changed in later patch notes, it's also the most recent height limit that NQ mentions and I could find.
 
The issue for me is not the having to move the dynamic constructs so the support person can move it to the proper height. But that this isn't the issue, it's the issue that I have to dig through all kinds of NQ publiced information and even the lastest info there (1300m) doesn't conform with what the support person is saying (1000m). That says a couple of things to me: It's a mess internally at NQ as they can't even coordinate among themselves the proper values that things should be and they can't communicate with us correctly either (known issues), as I was under the assumption this issue was fixed a while back. So that was pretty much the straw that was breaking the camels back for me. But maybe I'll calm down before tonight, the deadline to extend the subscriptions for two of my accounts....
 
Then I get the support ticket back... Which it short, doesn't address my issues and pretty much states "Thank you for you detailed response, it's appreciated. Now you have 24 hours to move those dynamic constructs away or we have to delete (the static constructs?) as they violate the rules. Thank you."... Yeah, I'm out, no waiting for this evening.
 
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

It's beyond stupid to ask players to read and obey rules that can easily be integrated into the game itself...but this is something that's been said many, many times.
 
Game rules are meant to be integrated into the game, and if NQ doesn't want to do that basic thing, at least they can have a lighter hand in enforcement. 
 
Hope you have fun in whatever game you find, @Cergorach! I'm sure there's plenty of other studios that would work much harder for your sub money. 

They are likely enjoying the holidays. The original 1.2 announcement was for January and was partially released early. Hopefully we'll hear more details about the remaining 1.2 features like scrap recycling and 1.3 plans in January.

Right or wrong is measurable, as is everything. DU is bleeding players. Worse, they are bleeding long-time, dedicated, and influential players. 
 
NQ clearly has no plan and have gone silent. There is no excuse.

You missed the point. It’s about trust. It is not about the lack of current roadmap. It is about NQ saying and doing something, then changing their minds with no notification. 
 
Mega is right that current actions border on deceit or stupidity. Take your pick, both are damning.
 
Losing players like Mega is a telling loss and I hope NQ pays attention. Their communication is shit. Their wishy washy stance on everything is shit.
 
I love DU and want it to succeed. I think NQ treats loyal players like shit and this is what kills games. 

It has been 2 months since DU launched and “Economy” by the Extraction Cartel is back up and running. The original market analysis from Beta has been updated for release and has some great new features.   You can find it at http://extractioncartel.com/ or this direct link to the analysis Macro Market View Micro Market by Market view Alioth Board of Trade (raw and refined materials) Item history and analysis Trade routes Real Estate brokerage service Player market service Base Build costs   I started and stopped this post 3 or 4 times as the future of the game seems to hang in the balance. Ultimately, I decided to release this tool to the general public for three reasons:   I’m a huge fan of what Dual Universe could be and I very much would like it to be successful The subtitle of Dual Universe is “THE SPACE MMO ENTIRELY BUILT AND DRIVEN BY PLAYERS”. While I do hope for more market tools from NQ, this is my contribution to the game. Information is power and I hope this tool helps players understand the market and engage in the broader player driven economy   To others who are working on similar market analysis tools, please feel free to reach out to me. I’m looking to collaborate and help deliver a high quality tool to the player base. I hope you find this tool valuable. There are undoubtedly mistakes so if you find one, let me know.   Email: extractioncartel@gmail.com In Game: Roustabout or MissFortune Discord: Roustabout    
 
 
 

Good post.
 
The concept of DU has so much potential. It is so frustrating with how it has been managed over the years and now. The arrogance of NQ is shocking.
 
I am still enjoying DU and agree the future seems bleak. Little communication and changes that make a challenging game more so for new players, solos, and small orgs. I get that NQ is trying to slow progression. Problem is they are strangling players out, who can’t or can just barely keep up.
 
For now I plan to enjoy DU while it lasts. 

I don’t think they are even listening to that.

NQ’s gross arrogance has them deaf, dumb, and blind.

Greetings all,

 
Please allow me to introduce myself. I am a longtime MMO fan since UO in 97. I only play MMOs. I have backed several from the early crowd funding stages and only play one at a time. I am not a hardcore player due to having a full time job and raising a family. I just started playing Dual Universe a month before launch. I had heard about it a long time ago and thought to myself, "This game looks amazing". So far I have 18 days playtime logged. I have only one account and one character in game. I play using the native client, not via Steam. I come from a professional systems architecture/cloud computing and networking background. I hope that provides some good context to this post and any others that I may post in the future and speaks to my level of objectivity as a seasoned player of MMOs.

 
First, I would like to congratulate Novaquark for the massive effort that went into this passion project. You guys really went out on a limb and took a massive risk with choosing the old-school way of funding your game with subscriptions. Bonus points for no cash shop, no cosmetics, no P2W element (perhaps besides the ability to multibox by paying for multiple subscriptions). Over the years as the MMO genre moved towards P2W, cash shops, loot boxes, etc., I recall considering the industry in a race to the bottom and thought eventually all game producers would succumb to such short sided greed. Many of them did; some of them that I backed and played exclusively. Most of them are but a faint memory and no longer exist.
Just when all was lost, some game producers caught onto this dynamic and started announcing early access to projects that promised a return to the more traditional models free of P2W where players could feel confident in not having their efforts rendered meaningless. In lieu of P2W elements, players could support the game by purchasing strictly cosmetic items, thus the micro transaction model came into being. Unfortunately, this drained development focus from improving QoL and game mechanics and fixing known issues toward creating an never ending and vast offering of cash shop items. Many of these projects also died off leaving a sort of virtual doll house where a functioning game of skill full of meaningful social interaction used to be.
That brings us to today, where the zeitgeist is returning to its origin with the original UO subscription model, steep progression curve and PvP based endgame (without loosing it all each time you die of course!). Dual Universe is not the only game to revert to the model, several other titles being announced of late are going this route as well.
So to my first point, thanks Novaquark for having a backbone and sticking to your vision, especially in this gaming era of entitlement and “dead game” FUD. Thank you for keeping the focus on game mechanics, in game economy, and QoL items such as grid snapping.

 
Second, I would like to add my input to the “dead game” FUD. This sentiment is present across every MMO at this moment in time. Its almost a meme at this point. There is not a single game that doesn’t have a video or post about how their respective game is dying. There is no game of any genre, let alone MMOs that has a strong uptrend in concurrent player spanning months. Most people will buy a game and play it for around 40 hours then move on to something new.
To put the contemporary gaming market in perspective, when many of us were told to stay at home or lost our jobs over the past couple of years, we started playing more games more often. Now that societies of the Western world have sent us all back into the world, we are seeing the number of concurrent players drop off on a YoY and MoM basis. Additionally, all games experience a massive dropoff in the months after launch. To base the overall success of Dual Universe on concurrent player metrics (from the portion of player that use Steam) sampled over a handful of weeks is absurdly short sided. If we are being honest, no player knows how many people are perma-quitting or how many new subscriptions are incoming. Claiming that there will be no playerbase within a matter of months with no data to back that up makes one appear disingenuous and spiteful, especially when doing within the in-game global chat.

 
Third, I would like to represent the contingent of players that agree with the recent economy changes. It seems like most of us are busy playing the game compared to the number of players spending their gaming hours complaining, shading and dooming on every available outlet so I thought I would present an alternative perspective here. If a player based their entire strategy, talent pool and identity into the mining unit trade, I can certainly empathize with how devastating that must be to have the carpet pulled from beneath you like that. However, give it some time and you will see that the economy will adjust to the demand for ore and you may even profit heavily in the long run. I chatted with player who claimed they were deleting T1 ores because it “wasn’t worth the storage”. There is something wrong with that and NQ knew it. What they did was react using insights that we as players don’t have access to. The developers aren’t clueless when it comes to this as many players have claimed ad nauseam. In fact, this is the first game I have ever played where the developers can effectively communicate their understanding of virtual economies. Clearly every one on the small development team has been hand picked for their integrity and knowledge.

 
Lastly, as a player that didn’t play for years before launch, this game has an incredible amount to offer a person who wants to play in an immersive open single instance of an infinitely expandable universe containing multiple worlds and local economies. It allows pure and beautiful creativity within a very stringent set of constraints (The best artists are driven by constraint, this is an actual concept that is accepted within the fine art community). The best part is, we don’t have to kill animals, zombies, aliens or other mindless AI mobiles to progress. That is honestly the most refreshing thing about this game. I seriously became desensitized to killing literal millions of humanoid and animal representations over the course of my life. If people feel unfulfilled with out being able to kill AI, there are thousands of games where you can do this in perpetuity alone or with your pals. Thanks again Novaquark for delivering the perfect game to players like myself. even if I am the only person on earth who likes this game, I still thank you and consider myself fortunate to have discovered it. Keep strong and never give in to greed or angry masses. If you guys keep it up, I am certain you will always have a paying player base even if its not in the millions.

I don’t think they are even listening to that.

NQ’s gross arrogance has them deaf, dumb, and blind.

NQ Logic: You used those skills, profited from the early game bot orders... and mining units are still viable with the game changes.
 
Also, NQ reps have said if you don't like it, and the game, don't play... when people have voiced their deep concerns. And arguably there are less and less players playing due to their attitude towards the community... so some are taking the hint. 
 
I know most of my friend group from beta keep being astounded by what more NQ can and do to squeeze life out of their game.... all while hoping they'll still change it around, we all love the idea of DU and have thousands of hours playing invested... 
 
Even falling player numbers are apparently not enough for NQ to realize that their direction is driving people away, like you can see a definitive drop with the annoucement via steam stats... its pretty clear.
 
And what happens when there is even a lower population of active players without bots? How will a new player be able to join the game and mine/make enough  to even buy parts.... from bots/market when they die off? Guess they'll just pull the lever and turn the bot orders back on? 
 
Most all games have more than one 1-2 ways to make fresh currency In game... with many games, and most MMO's rewarding players for everything to keep the endorphins kicking and players inventories full of shinies. Kill a monster? Here is some currency. Sell an item to a vendor in game? Here is some currency. Oh, you got top leader board for that arena? Here is some currency. Ah, you logged in and did your daily crafting quest? Here is some currency. Oh, you completed a quest? Here is some currency.  
 
We have... missions... and vr challenges that are different types of missions that you can only do once a day. Oh, and login bonus. 
 
Anyways done beating a dead horse. Myself and others have tried, and maybe the only thing NQ will listen to at this point is the sound of players quiting. 
 
I really hope they can make the game fun/more playable, and that by doing so creates a game with a positive churn rate. 
 
 

People running missions are making billions. People hand calibration mining are not. Charges are limited and throttled.
 
This change only hurts solo players, new players, and small orgs. 

This exactly. NQ explicitly stated calibration mining was valid - and less efficient long term (so there was a cost to doing so).
 
Not to mention, there are few practical ways to get T2+ ore right now given the extremely low ore rates. 
 
NQ should refund talent points invested for calibration mining.

It’s simple. When NQ clearly states calibration mining is valid, then without prior notice change their minds (which is BS), they screw people out of weeks of TP training. Meta or not, there should be at least a partial refund of points. 

What if you made every tile in safe space except possibly Haven have a good supply of a single random T2 ore and maybe a trace amount of a single random supply of T3 ore. This would boost market sales, community cooperation and also even out the balance gap of players who were able to lock in on the few good tiles currently available without  adding more planets that would only further dilute the population. This will give every player including the very importation new people access to some advancement in manufacturing progression from T1 to T2 items while also encouraging  PVP action  for access to the more advance ore's.
 
 
   

I wasn't going to write this post. It was also a post I never actually thought I would have to write, but events since release two months ago led me to this point. 
 
I don't post a great deal on these forums, but I'm an avid reader and professional lurker since joining at the Alpha stage. I try to keep my finger on the community pulse and to keep up to date on updates and the general buzz. I've played since Alpha and mostly enjoyed all the time I've spent. There has been many times when DU has fought against me and attempted to break me down. However I was always sold, like many others, on that potential carrot on a stick of "What if?".
 
Over the DU development since 0.23 and beyond, the community was gutted due to the introduction of schematics. As updates and patches were introduced to the game, I've watched with dismay the amount of players with high standing in the community, slowly turn on NQ and Dual Universe when they get that stark realisation that this game is never going to live up to that perceived potential. Some go quietly into the night, others announce their vitriol for a few weeks before quitting with much fanfare. 

Being a player since Alpha affords me an ability to see the bigger picture of what I perceive has been going on:
 
If you look at all the updates since Beta started and outside of some balancing updates to PVP and visual upgrades, everything else has been implemented to cut costs due to what I believe as woeful inadequacies at the design and concept level. The vision of this game and what was perceived could be done, didn't match the budget available and the technology. In short, the game that NQ wanted to make didn't match what they could afford to do. Hence, I believe, this is why JC was ousted and the company is now ran by the main investment company (who I feel wants their investment back). The game has had its life and soul gutted out of it, and with every "improvement" it takes another little piece of itself away.
 
When the announcement came that this game was going to be released, I'm pretty sure we as the community, were in the unanimous agreement that it was way too soon. The game was undercooked and needed a lot more time before it was ready. Any development company who wanted their undercooked product to survive would of released it as an early access product. However, Novaquark is a business ran by an investment company who wants to recoup. Keeping the game in another few years of beta or early access wasn't going to make them anywhere near the money needed to recoup. With no new investment, there was only one possible course of action, throw it out the door and see if it sinks or swims. Unfortunately they forgot to teach it how to swim or provide any floatation aids.
 
I don't want to be one of those doomsayers who, when they're not happy with the state of the game will immediately declare "zomg, this game is dead!" But It saddens me to say that, that is what I now believe. It died sometime ago when Novaquark realised that under the budget they currently have that there was no way they could afford the server costs to make it work as intended. It just took some of us longer than it should to see it for what it is.
 
So what is the immediate future? If you look at the current lack of content and updates, all that we're really getting is the completion of the supporter goals that should of been ready on release. Beyond that, as of writing this, nothing, no road map, nothing. No enthusiasm from Novaquark, no excitement, nothing. 
 
Can the game be saved? In short, no. To do this, the game would need a large, fresh influx of money, coupled with a long protracted development time to essentially re-release and reinvent itself. We are at the point of no return though. NQ, I think are running on fumes and they know it. Releasing the game, wiping and increasing the subscription prices and then going essentially dark speaks volumes to their future plans. 
 
I do wish it wasn't this way, and I am kicking myself a little for having to write one of these posts, but I felt it needed to be said. I know this game will still have its staunch defenders (I was one of them) who will go down fighting to the very last day. But this week the game broke me. As I logged in and did my busywork and realised I was barely able to cover my costs to keep the lights on with no real goal of progression any more, my love, passion and perceived potential for the game melted away. 
 
I appreciate my rantings here are purely opinion and conjecture, but if you take the time to take a long hard look at the past few years of this games development, the clues are there. Many of us already know it and made their comments known on the various channels. The tone and overall feelings of the community are at an all time low right now and that should tell you everything as to what the community is currently feeling. 
 
I'd love to be proved wrong, I still want the game to succeed, but my joy and passion, like many others past and present in this community, is gone and it would take a truly Herculean effort on the part of NQ to get it back again. However, judging by recent efforts I won't be holding my breath.

This is the biggest issue. Small orgs get screwed by this change.

Not until NQ very clearly said it was okay and part of the gameplay.

Epically stupid change. Especially after saying calibration mining was valid.

People running missions are making billions. People hand calibration mining are not. Charges are limited and throttled.
 
This change only hurts solo players, new players, and small orgs. 

Territory Warefare on worlds apart from Alioth would help
 
joking aside having a shifting ore mode like in Star Wars Galaxies would be great!

"working as intended"
"nerfed"
"we dont have a clue"

Billions from selling Titanium? since thats the only T5  that you can currently calibrate in game. And the only thing you can make with that is Mining units, Scrap, and honeycomb.  Now Cryolite and Cobaltite are the ony 2 T4's that you can calibrate with. Which you would need to calibrate 3,000,000l of the stuff to get billions.
 
I have no doubt that the friends you know have billions of quanta. But I doubt they made those billions by single calibration tiles. Did they make a profit from being able to do so? yes. But they would have made more with those calibrations if they had a proper flower setup.
 
The only people this change helps is people who where early and got proper tiles setup in the first place. But it hurts so many more people who formed there entire game play from calibration hexes.