Reepotah

ah, you're getting personal and insulting - not a very adult behaviour, kiddy.

You personal opinion cannot be compared to players putting time, effort and money into the game based on promises made from NQ.

I like this game, but i don't like companies that betray their customers.

Facts

(1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..."
(4:45) "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc
(58:26) "there would be a gold rush to get back to whatever you wanted. That's actually not a good idea. We decided that we would rather not do that. There has already been a lot of investment made by a lot of people to terraform very very substantial parts of the planets... It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" And that was just on a terrain wipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg
(15:53) "Everything you build is forever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD00-V_LKog
(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

The only way this game will be successful is NQ is smart enough to sell it to a actual game developing company or just go bankrupt and sell the game. Lets face it NQ has shown the world what not to do when it come to developing a game. Do what ever you like because we all know you will.  

I agree that the game isn't ready for release, but that ship has sailed. It's been 8 years in the making...it's done.
 
Athena was the last major update. People have been waiting around for a "big update" that brings actual gameplay depth for years. It isn't going to happen. They don't know how to make it happen, and if they did...they couldn't do it in the time they have left. 
 
Even if they don't actually release for another year, they don't have time.
 
They have a bottomless pit of tech debt to settle in terms of polish, bugs, and stability to be ready for a real release...things that will make a much bigger dent to new player retention than fresh servers. 
 
They should have settled this months ago...their inability to make a simple decision is "shedding light" on NQ's management and maybe explains why nothing has fundamentally changed with this game for years. 

For me it really comes down to if this is only a test server to be wiped on release, why have the PTS? Should just give us all the stuff on the live server and actually test the hell out of it and make the game better. But it wasn't framed that way. We were sold persistence and the ability to build a world. 
 
If I knew that all the work I've done under that premise would be deleted, do you really think I would have paid a sub? No, I would have played a game that valued the cash and time spent helping the Devs with bug reporting and testing out this buggy mess.

For any normal game, the game loop should be entertaining on it's own. But for a lot of us, this game is a building game where we expect persistence. The game loops in the game are actually quickly boring and don't let up. It's just not only the building that can be frustrating (lack of proper tools/options), but grinding the resources/quanta is such a bother! The satisfaction comes when you've finish that project and set the goals to the next. Part of that satisfaction is that what you did is now there and can be used. Be it a ship, a base, factory, landing-pad, space station, the materials for 100M in space fuel, infrastructure, etc. I of course can choose to break it down again, to do something else, abandon it, blow it up in pvp, etc. But that is my choice/risk to make/take...
 
If NQ would have said that they would wipe at launch, I wouldn't be playing DU and paying NQ for the privilage. If NQ says, we'll do it in two years (again), I won't continue to play. Many wouldn't.

How about they wipe just your stuff? Or you can do it yourself too

I'll keep my opinions about a wipe brief:

I don't like the idea of a full wipe. I've put thousands of hours into building my ship-selling operation. But I understand how a wipe could help. I'm resigned to the inevitability of it. I can deal with losing my money and my ship factory.

HOWEVER, don't take our talent points! We paid for those. They aren't resources. Taking them is basically deleting our character/account. Whatever advantage they provide, we're owed it. If talent points go, I'll go.

And I think removing schematics would be a bad idea. Every player could manufacture everything they need again, and the market would be pointless.

If ther eis a full wipe (which i would prefere) then there should be a way to regain the old talent points, because thats bascially what ppl paid for. Be it that they get all their TP back 2 months or so into the game, or an increase in TP/hour until the "legacy TP-pool" is empty or whatever.

Most important PRO's missed... 
 
Hundreds of paid accounts no longer paying.  Less money for NQ
Empty worlds with no constructs... sounds fun.
Many existing players offer help to new players in financial and advice... gone.

I'm not against a wipe as long as we keep our blueprints and talent points.
 
Starting over is fine, but the time and money (paid accounts) that went into designing ships and training talents - not willing to start over on that. It just wouldn't be fun and it wouldn't be worth it - in time and money - to have to do that again.

I do not like the wait the option is presented, clearly NQ is using the "Remove Schematics" as the bait or carrot at the end of the stick, my question is simple why make us go threw the drill of reducing construction and limiting orgs and such, why make us go threw the drill of buying Schematics, why make us go threw the drill of terrain reset and the list goes on and on. Why did you decide to turn your early backers and supports into unpaid testers, better yet Testers that have to pay NQ to test your game. 

So my choices are loose everything Talents, Constructs, Quanta so a new player can do WHAT. Play the game like I did, no the can not I played for 2 years, so a new player should never be able to walk in the door and be equal to me simple because you "Release The Game". 

Did the NEW PLAYER pay you for 10 accounts for 2 years at 9.99 a month NO
Did the NEW PLAYER  have to learn how to use Schematics and now UNLEARN how to use Schematics NO
Did the NEW PLAYER spend hours DIGGING their base out of the dirt after a Terrian reset NO
Did the NEW PLAYER have to play with and countless Towers, Game Errors and Bugs and still played the game NO
 
Why the hell  Do you OWE this NEW PALYER anything when in fact YOU NQ owe US those that are here NOW, those that Play NOW, those that paid you NOW those that will come back when you screw us ONCE AGAIN for a pipe dream of the Magical NEW PLAYER that you cant seem to get to come to the game now but for some reason they will at RELEASE. So you Lied about Sancturary to I guess that the next statement that I am waiting to hear. Remember the lie Sanctuary will never be wipe and will always be save.
 
And for the record, you have no idea who, what or HOW MANY ....NEW PLAYERs you are going to get if any. If so Where are they NOW...
 
 

I agree with most people here, so I will just add to some points instead of writing everything in detail...
 
A very important question: What becomes of the thoramine? The Thoramin should not disappear under any circumstances. That there will be other ways to get to it later is okay, but the current one must not be disbanded. (Is that already discussed @NQ-Wanderer?)
 
Talent Points: These should be saved or if necessary reduced by the same percentage for all. It should not be the case that all players start with the same points. That would be more than unfair.
 
The beta was intended as a soft release and only partial wipes should take place if absolutely necessary. That was YOUR PROMISE, so if you break that promise and do a full reset, many will demand refunds. You cannot afford that financially.
 
Including blueprints from Alpha/Beta in the finished game was a promise from the beginning, so this should be fulfilled too.
 
I wonder what happened to my missing blueprints from the PreAlpha? There was the first space station built by players... 
 
So my conclusion: 
A partial wipe is possible. A full wipe is not. (Unless you want to kill DU)
 
Furthermore, I fully agree with Kurock.
 
 

Basically any form of wipe after telling us no for 2 years, and id walk away. I don't see any path of fair restitution for ripping out of my hands everything i worked for without using exploits or shady bullshit since beta start when NQ told us no further wipe. i didn't like schematics at first, but its a reasonable mechanic that i work well with for my usage/needs now and could be handled by throttling them like using industry skills. but taking away what I've built in 2 years, which with current systems would take nearly 3 years to replace. And honestly wiping to give a level playing field will only make a difference for a month at best, before the knowledgeable people are back in a position of power
 
I'm not unique in my opinion, and NQ will have to consider how many people will continue to play, or just give up and walk away because they were lied to. I backed in alpha so i haven't paid money monthly, but i would of been happy to of for all this time to aid in the games support. 

Apologies for the caps but the tone is intended. LEAVE TALENT POINTS OFF ANY WIPE DECISION JUST LIKE BLUEPRINTS.
 
As for my opinion. If you must weigh pro and con list make it so Voxel only constructs survive the wipe. Make a warning pre-wipe if the construct will fail the check just like you did with element stacking.
 
Pro - Builders can keep their hard voxel work and only have to replace the elements on the other side of the wipe.
Pro - Far less Back Lash.
Pro - Closes nearly all Loopholes apart from Voxel but Voxel will be the most easy to reproduce post wipe anyway so economic effect is very limited.
Pro - Newbies can be instantly inspired by the veterans creations of the Beta period.
 
Con - Some veterans will have to dig out ther buildings again.
Con - Nq will have to add a small bit of effort to save the 1,000's of hours of work created by the community.
 
 

As a long time regular player: a partial wipe I could live with, a full wipe not.

I would expect to at least remain blueprints, talents and schematics and preferably 'capsule constructs' (maybe without cargo and fuel). I think I am entitled to replace my factory I spend 2 years working daily in building without having to set it all up again from scratch for the 4th time (after alpha, beta pre-schematics, beta post-schematics). 

The idea to remove schematics is new to me, but if we can run factories without schematics that is ok: I did that before and with my talents I should be able to make money. There would just be more competition and a smaller market as more people will make their own stuff.

But I do expect compensation for the years of grinding money and talents together to build up my schematics set. Not sure what I would do with 30bil, but I worked hard for it, and I never used any exploits. Would not be fair if the builders get all their work saved by getting blueprints, and industrialists loose everything they worked for.

It is frustrating that this wipe discussion has been going on for so many months now. I would like a decision soon please, so that I know if I am wasting my time these months or need to go look for another game.

I have never read a bigger pile of one-sided bullsh*t basically advocating for full wipe in order to easily do away with schematics.  Just announce the decision and get it over with.

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates" (like the mining update that was done).  So if NQ do decide to wipe, it would be yet another promise broken.  This also completely ignores that people have been paying monthly to play...

As for "removing unfair advantage" and "level playing field". These are fallacies to help people sleep better at night.  The players with the know how will return to the positions of abundance they have now in short order.   There will always be "haves" and "have nots".   All a wipe does is a slap in the face of the people that put time into the game after being told a wipe would not happen.
 
Make a system that creates schematics rather than remove them.  The problem with schematics, like the markets, is that they do not give player agency.  A player cannot make a schematic at all, they have to be bought.  Make science research a thing.

Cons for wipe have already been mentioned:   As I said, the "NQ thoughts" are heavily aligned to a wipe disregarding promises and small details like leaving an empty world, avid supporters of the game just leave, and paying customers just get their stuff removed.  

What a wipe also does is remove the history of DU such as it is... like Thoramine.  Deleting a piece of DU history like that is unforgivable.

Game launch - that's generally the time when access is given to the general public.
Does the general public have access to DU? Yes - I'm a paying customer since May 2021.

The "game launch" you speak of is just a marketing ploy. It is not the grand opening of the flood gates to the millions of eagerly awaiting enthusiasts who did not manage to secure a limited spot in a closed beta. In other words, few players are waiting to jump to DU when it "launches".

For Dual Universe the beginning of the "Open beta" was its true and only Game Launch.

So for the people playing DU right now this "game launch" has as much relevance as does the rain over the ocean for the fishes swimming in it.
My conservative estimate for a split between current players and new players post-"launch" is 90/10. As in 90% of players will be the existing players.

When you see it that way, you'll understand that screwing 90% of the user-base for the expectations of the 10% will be a stake through NQ's heart.

I've seen this statement often, please explain.
 
Because from my perspective, if there's a wipe-wipe, I won't be returning. Actually, I would strongly advise people against playing DU if it happens.
 
A wipe-wipe, won't change anything for 99% of the players in a month. As the same dedicated players with too much time, corp players, RL money, etc. will be in the same top positions. New players won't have a chance in hell to compete with that. In the mean time, getting started in DU for new players will be HELL! As nothing will be available that's player made, at a low price (as it is now). So leaving Haven/Sanctuary will be virtually impossible as people can't build or buy a territory control unit...
 
Look, I loved getting started with beta, but it was a completely different game then. For one, Schematics, for another planet mining or surface ore respawning. You looked at what some of the Alpha players where doing in the first weeks/months and you got inspired. Doing that again under the current restrictions wouldn't be much fun (for me) imho...
 
As for current new player being left behind? They can sell their ore, and it will be bought. Just look at the current ore sell prices, see many Sanctuary sell orders or small sell orders? Would certain people have the quanta to buy that from new players if there is a wipe-wipe? No. New players can/could often pick up nice BPCs from builder characters like Hagbard, would the be able to now? No! Because Hagbard can't produce a dispenser after the wipe-wipe, he wouldn't even be able to buy one...
 
So new players wouldn't be able to get the much wanted resources like specific tiles with ore, that's just for the big dedicated corps. Hell, 99% of the current players wouldn't be able to get to them either, unless you are a highly placed person in one of the big dedicated corps. It didn't happen with the last landwipe, it won't suddenly happen now. Scanning for a new player sounds like a good way to get started, but how exactly would you get that scanner? Those Schematics are expensive! No big corp would sell their scanners before they are done scanning themselves...
 
And if you think that there will be no new player due to the 'inequality', what would happen to new players six months down the road, a year, two years? The only similar MMO i'm familiar with that has a similar concept (of persistence) is EVE Online. When I started EVE in 2005, I was already late to the party by two years. Large corps ruled Null Sec, many have risen and fallen since then, I have never been part of that (by choice). What I have done in the last 17 years (often many years off) is control certain items on the markets or even the market in a certain section of space. The big strength of EVE is imho that even if I've taken off years, I can always get back and pick up my chars where I left them. Doing new things, trying the old things in a different environment, etc. NQ has already pretty much said that if no subscription, then everything not on Sanctuary (and I expect Haven) will go POOF!(tm) eventually. The problem is that people are not trusting NQ enough at the moment that even the Sanctuary/Haven space will be save from deletion (eventually), people are not trusting NQ because they might wipe-wipe again. There goes the whole persistence concept...