kulkija

This is the way I feel about creating ships which I am interested to doing working along with more voxel artistic players:    (1) It is kind of crazy to have some of the talents that apply based on the pilot instead of the put down skills for creators.   For example sustain speed should be only a factor the creator or modifying player can improve.   If two people check the sustain speed at the same time and get radically different values, that is quite confusing.     However it might be too late in the  beta period to change this  unless all  existing ships are given the best sustain speed.   (2)  The plan for ship builds to be marked if anything has ever been damaged to prevent taking a blueprint is going to end up with players quitting the game - A creator or modifier should be able to always take a blueprint if the elements have been repaired and preferably more times that ship elements can be repaired if they are the original creator.   Otherwise we seriously need a sandbox mode. (3) When something needs repair or is blocked etc.  it would be nice to have more blatant indicators of where it is.
 
As far as rewards for players such as existing factories that have already worked hard to build something - That should be respected.  If there are issues for new players, we need to figure out ways to help them.  Our group is not one of the oldest or biggest, but we have been working hard to make progress.  Unless you have been working on this for a while, you shouldn't complain as you probably can't be specific in your suggestion.

As far as I can tell, the problem with the markets is supply side. When I need something, half the time, it's not available on any market and even if it is, I have to fly to numerous remote markets to find everything I need.
 
How will this address is problem? I think it's pretty clear that it will exacerbate the problem. If stuff is too expensive to make, orgs will make stuff for their own use, but none of it will get to the markets. Assuming I can still afford to make fuel, I guess I'll fly my existing ships until the elements wear out and then quit the game, cause I won't be able to buy replacement parts. But since I'm just barely breaking even against fuel costs now, I don't really expect to be able to afford fuel.

By design.
 
Vertical engines used to be just as fuel efficient as horizontal engines but that got nerfed by about 50% way back when.

Our Warp Beacon couldn't even start because the assembler "ate" the ingredients. The support ticket was "relayed to developers" (idk what happens now). And now NQ puts 6 months between those with their beacons (and all the other stuff) and those without.
 
NQ put themselves in quite a conundrum by treating this game as a beta and a soft launch wherever it works the best for them.

So the change is welcome if the rest hinted at can be implemented. But and there's always a but, this doesn't fix anything. It creates a class system of have's and have not's. So the market which was a mess to start with, as it was largely irrelvant except for converting mass into quanta to buy the assets you needed, will now still be irrelevant for anyone who isn't poor.
 
Now is the time to try this but without a fully developed system and even more importantly, a complete lack of a meta system, making careers definable or desirable, we're back at square one.
 
The game is missing so much and anything, anything, is welcome but this will not lead to the depth required because it's a finite game design loop, not one of infinite variety or viability.
 
I honestly think this is a clear example of a finger in the dyke of bad game design.

Wonderful, now the people with billions in the bank will get even richer as they will be able to still have a whole factory producing everything and this change will mean very little if anything to them where as the little people who didn't game the system early release will get the shaft /golfclap

I wish somethings a little focus on content was also done as well.  Its a big nerf so those who have made billions can buy what they need and those just starting out are left in the lurch.  I get why your doing it.  It is just a big shame!

Make the game fun again!
 
Mining endlessly and then waiting days or weeks for one component to cook is unacceptable and made me quit recently.
 
Fuel usage is also ridiculous.
 
Components are too big.
 
How to fix these issues:
- Add some kind of mining laser for ships so we can mine veins fast.
- Reduce time to make components.
- Make fuel more affordable, people living on Alioth are spending more ore to fuel than crafting. Fuel should be very easy and cheap to craft, even rocket fuel since we're using 1000x more rocket fuel for one trip.
- Balance components so we don't need so many for one ship. Ships look like pill of elements.

This argument is false.
Space industry is going into opposite direction. Trying to maximize usage times for engines etc.
 
Creating consumer demand by producing disposable goods is reason for current waste and pollution problems.

This is really redline for me. @NQ - game devs. Please do not implement this culture into this game. Game should be about future of humankind.

Also I'm totally not interested about real world problems. I play this game to forget all the sorrow and problems of real life. 
If you bring those into this game they will constantly remind me about RL problems and I get bad feelings and don't play this game anymore.
 

My concern is the interaction with AGG. AGG turns off if the person that started it goes away to far. Will that function now go to a nearby player? What happens if im solo, can i just not use AGG by itself now? Gonna have to build a  milliion landing platforms around planets?

This is worst idea ever.
It will be gamebreaker for me.
I will not pay any monthly fees from this game if this is implemented.
After my 4 Kickstarter pledges expires, Im out.

I have zero experience with PVP, due to zero interest in it, so I will not comment this.
 
In regards to items being destroyed, especially outside of PVP, I don't think it is a very good idea.
I think most people commenting here, saying that it would be a good idea have vast DU experience and serious issues to change their point of view when it comes to DU beginners. Some have indeed addressed the potential impact on new players and the possible consequence of losing them permanently. One already said, no players = no DU. One time subscribers and a few PVP focused ones will not keep DU and NQ alive.
 
A common argument is that the economy is broken and requires a resource sink to fix it. I think proper PVP with permanently destroyed items would be enough already.
In my opinion a greater problem is the current market system, respectively the lack of information when it comes to prices and production cost. I'd guess that many people, if not even most,  that sell produced items at the markets, don't check production cost and also don't consider the transportation costs. Otherwise I've issues to understand why so many sell orders are way lower than the actual ore prices to produce said items. It is utter nonsense to sell an item for 100k when I need 200k to produce it. Even if I mine the ore myself, I still need to do that calculation. My interest lies in industry and I'd love to produce and sell goods with a small margin and even hire a trader or partner with one. DU makes this for me impossible right now because the prices are a joke. Selling ore brings the most profit so I have to go mining, although I'd love to do something else. I'm forced to do that as I cannot make proper profit with the goods I can produce. So I need to skill mining, need to skill container range, piloting and many other things I did not want to specialize in. Just to point it out, I literally sell nothing on the markets, it's just not worth it.

Implementing destruction will not fix the economy. Larger Organizations will just adapt and continue to produce their own stuff. The ore they require, they will mine and therefore, zero impact on the economy. The random, solo or new player will suffer.
 
NQ: If you really want to fix the market you need to implement more information. When I inspect an item, it needs to show the production costs (quanta), based on the average price of all sell orders of each ore amounts required to produce that item (just without skills). The average needs to exclude the 10 cheapest and 10 most expensive ones on the planet the player currently is. As you refer to IRL, you can also prohibit selling prices under creation costs, which is in IRL illegal in some countries. The same info needs to be in the create sell order screen ( info based on all markets of the planet the player currently is on) and tadaa, no one will sell an item under creation costs. You may take the skills into consideration but this will make it for new players a lot harder to produce and sell. It is unreasonable that players have to lookup such essential information at player made webpages, if they are lucky enough to know about them. Also, add an information text that reminds the seller to consider the costs for transport and the market tax (why actually, for a market on an otherwise basically empty planet?) as well.
 
This will set the ore prices realistically, the item prices too and the PVP destruction will be an appropriate money / resource sink. No need to grief players with painful crashing penalty. Repairing a hauler is already painful enough, especially when you compare it with a PVP XS Cube. I'm sure that may players will quit DU if they have to replace all elements on their ships over and over again, just because of crashes.

Next step, remove the stupid buy bots where people are selling honeycombs to for example, or at least, set all buy prices that low that no more profit is possible. Of course you need to think about some quanta generating mechanism after doing this.
 
This probably would also render mining automation unnecessary as there will be a valid marked for people specialized in mining. I'd be happy to buy ore if I could sell the products with a small profit in turn. This may finally trigger the other niches you were hoping for, protection service providers for miner / hauler etc.
 
Just my two cents, I'm happy to read your opinions about this.

This is exactly where my interests are.
I had many excellent experiences in EVE while flying my haulers and supporting my org and allies behind the lines.
 

Unfortunately  NQ's general thought process is based around short term, quick fixes which hide the root cause of problems (and the hope to find time somehow to maybe revisit these in the future) without much, if any, thought on the longer term impact. Most of it appears to be fed by a chronic lack of resources within the company, absence of central project management and a very tight budget.
 
That said though, I honestly do not see how my suggestion would take much more time or resources to implement while it provides a vastly better foundation to build on going forward. It also creates an opportunity for emergent gameplay where logistics/support ships become a factor in (bigger) conflict scenarios and at the same time it create opportunity for players not directly interested in shooting guns to engage in PVP wit their org/friends. There is just too little consideration for these factors in the overal game design for DU right now IMO.
 

"From now on, that probability will use the surface of the ship that's visible from the view of the shooter as defined by the cross-section of the ship from that same point of view"
Come on it should be more about energy (use) not about visual cross section!

I can seethe argument that these changes are too much in one go and may need further refinement but then again, this is NQ and their trackrecord here is not one of subtle and well considered actions but more like the "let's see what this button does" kind. 

I don't know whats worse..  A carbon tax IRL or this blunder of a idea

PvP I can understand, crashes not so much. If they're going for realism, ok, but it's a game where people want to escape real life.
 
Also, it's on me where I spend my money. If the devs really don't want it, they can take the game in a direction I don't agree with.

I agree with others, we need renewable resources before a resource sink comes into play. Resources going out without new resources coming in is a terrible recipe and will make the game unattractive at this time. I'd probably cancel my sub and go play something else until renewables are implemented.
 
Aside from that, the roadmap is starting to look more and more like Eve. If I wanted to play Eve, I'd be playing it.

Why is there only one comment so far on the industry side when it sounds like they seem to have just invalidated 100% of industry blueprints by bringing in a system where you need machines that don't exist yet to make parts you are already making?

This is worst idea ever.
It will be gamebreaker for me.
I will not pay any monthly fees from this game if this is implemented.
After my 4 Kickstarter pledges expires, Im out.

Good start but the big one to me is total destruction of elements. While i agree we need an actual resource sink in the game i dont think the elements should be deleted. I think they should instead either give scrap parts that can be recycled for a percentage of the raw resources say 50% with talents or that they should be used to craft refurbished engines that have a RANDOM negitive over a new version. I.E less lifes requireing more repairs, higher fuel consumption ect. This will put say cheap T 0.75 engines on the market for those wanting to save a buck. But also give a reason for there to be scrappers and used parts markets opening up more game choices.
 
Additionally i would like to see replacment parts kits that allow you to add onto element life Maybe you get 3 lives normally and can boost or restore it 3 times after that with the parts kits while having talents boosting that more. It can still be a heavy resource sink, maybe more then even just replaceing the engines. Imo it opens up another market and people who properly maintain their ships should be rewarded over those who dont.

'Advancement'? You joke? Losing the ability to make more complex things with existing resources is the opposite of 'advancement'. 

please stop adding more time sink to compensate your lack of content 

Also, when a market bot buys ore I think that ore is lost to the game unless people are buying ore from the bots, maybe they do.  I never buy ore from th market though