joaocordeiro

True. Ignoring all RL economy issues and regulation created to compensate. 
Ignoring other games similar to this, having all having NPC stores for basic supplies. 
Takes allot of "dont want to see" to not see. 

Sure. But in that scenario the pray, the new players, will be very quickly exhausted. 
Because the more asymmetric the combat is the faster the target will cancel its subscription. 
 
So, although the net is positive. It will quickly lose "low rank" players. 
Efectively ending the game. 
 
Im my opinion NPCs are fundamental to keep a optimal number of prey in the game. 
In numbers large enough that a single player wont often have a major setback and when he does, he can reffill his joy and his resources, hunting npcs. 

He just wants to engage and win an internet fight. 
No one trying to get to a consensus would continue for so long on a baseless argument. 
 
Not worth replying because he knows what he is doing. 
 
 
 
I would like to focus on if you guys agree with the "happiness average" topic. And how to balance it in a player only world. 

You have zero means to actually come to that %. 
 
So this comment is totally your uninformed opinion, or worse, your attenpt to manipulate the argument with a clear lie. 
 
I also talk to ppl that play the game from new players to old alpha backers. None agree that the current situation is fair or that they should not wipe. 
 
But even if your % was true. NQ needs to do what is best for the game. Not what the majority of the players wany. 

Tnx for the reply, but sniff sniff for the answer. 

You have zero means to actually come to that %. 
 
So this comment is totally your uninformed opinion, or worse, your attenpt to manipulate the argument with a clear lie. 
 
I also talk to ppl that play the game from new players to old alpha backers. None agree that the current situation is fair or that they should not wipe. 
 
But even if your % was true. NQ needs to do what is best for the game. Not what the majority of the players wany. 

You have zero means to actually come to that %. 
 
So this comment is totally your uninformed opinion, or worse, your attenpt to manipulate the argument with a clear lie. 
 
I also talk to ppl that play the game from new players to old alpha backers. None agree that the current situation is fair or that they should not wipe. 
 
But even if your % was true. NQ needs to do what is best for the game. Not what the majority of the players wany. 

Intruduction
 
In my opinion NPCs a hard requirement for this game to succeed for several reasons. Here are some:
 
Players don't have any obligation, and sometimes not even the skill to create good content.
NPCs are fundamental to create any kind of engaging content in the game.
 
With ships being so valuable and so hard to get, specially for new players, it is very unlikely that any battle will be a symmetric one.
NPCs a fundamental to give a chance for a new player to experience any kind of rewarding pvp instead of an instant rage-quit followed by a subscription cancellation.
 
Most players completely ignore other players not in their org.
NPCs are necessary for players to feel someone is around them on a station, or a base.
That they are not playing this game alone.

But most importantly.
For someone to win, someone has to lose.
Without NPCs to take the big losses, some players will be the losers. And who are those players that will be the losers?
New players of course. Being less organized, having less resources, knowing less information.
No new player will continue on the game if all their experience is loss after loss.
NPCs are fundamental for new players to train, get loot to compensate for their heavy losses and more importantly, to stabilize their happiness level.

NPCs in general are FUNDAMENTAL to keep the average level of happiness in positive levels. Instead of 2 or 3 big orgs having fun while everyone else cancels their subscriptions
 
Pain is stronger than joy.
PlayerA kills, and loots PlayerB

PlayerA gets 5 joy, PlayerB gets - 10 joy.
Avarage = -5

NPCS are needed to make it back to 0 avarage.

The development cost

I understand the cost of creating NPCs
 
NPCs able to navigate inside a dynamical created construct would be extremely hard to code and also extremely expensive.

But there are all kinds of NPCs. Not just those smart, walking ones.
 
The dispenser that gives new players their speeder parts could be a standing still NPC with 10 lines of dialog.
A standing still station that fires at everything that approaches, completely empty inside could be a NPC.
Some placeable standing still guy with dialog connected to some lua and configurable by players, could be a NPC.
Some standing still flower, spitting acid on passing by ppl could be a NPC

In time, with more budget, this dumb AI NPCs could become smarter.
But those don't have to be born smart.

It's not a choice between "completely empty universe" and "fully automated AI"
There is middle ground.

Conclusion
In my opinion, not being able to understand that a player only game will always have a negative average happiness level shows that this new management will not make this game succeed.
 
And while I feel sad to trow this "bash" at NQ, in return to their needed reply, I feel that this bash is needed. Because there won't be a 3rd chance for this project.

Its simple math.

PS:
For all pvpers that want their prey to be 100% human.
Your prey will not join or continue to play the game if they only experience loss by your hands.

Lions can only hunt zebras because zebras have plants to eat
You are the lions.
New players are the zebras.
NPCs are the plants.
 

I'm quite sure they could process any NPC processing in the client's computer. Much like they process lua.

Most of this 1st iteration simple AIs could even be written in lua.

And given the right API, they could even ask current players to make those simple AI scripts for them.
Most of us, me included, would be happy to break our heads making a "hard to beat" AI script.

Intruduction
 
In my opinion NPCs a hard requirement for this game to succeed for several reasons. Here are some:
 
Players don't have any obligation, and sometimes not even the skill to create good content.
NPCs are fundamental to create any kind of engaging content in the game.
 
With ships being so valuable and so hard to get, specially for new players, it is very unlikely that any battle will be a symmetric one.
NPCs a fundamental to give a chance for a new player to experience any kind of rewarding pvp instead of an instant rage-quit followed by a subscription cancellation.
 
Most players completely ignore other players not in their org.
NPCs are necessary for players to feel someone is around them on a station, or a base.
That they are not playing this game alone.

But most importantly.
For someone to win, someone has to lose.
Without NPCs to take the big losses, some players will be the losers. And who are those players that will be the losers?
New players of course. Being less organized, having less resources, knowing less information.
No new player will continue on the game if all their experience is loss after loss.
NPCs are fundamental for new players to train, get loot to compensate for their heavy losses and more importantly, to stabilize their happiness level.

NPCs in general are FUNDAMENTAL to keep the average level of happiness in positive levels. Instead of 2 or 3 big orgs having fun while everyone else cancels their subscriptions
 
Pain is stronger than joy.
PlayerA kills, and loots PlayerB

PlayerA gets 5 joy, PlayerB gets - 10 joy.
Avarage = -5

NPCS are needed to make it back to 0 avarage.

The development cost

I understand the cost of creating NPCs
 
NPCs able to navigate inside a dynamical created construct would be extremely hard to code and also extremely expensive.

But there are all kinds of NPCs. Not just those smart, walking ones.
 
The dispenser that gives new players their speeder parts could be a standing still NPC with 10 lines of dialog.
A standing still station that fires at everything that approaches, completely empty inside could be a NPC.
Some placeable standing still guy with dialog connected to some lua and configurable by players, could be a NPC.
Some standing still flower, spitting acid on passing by ppl could be a NPC

In time, with more budget, this dumb AI NPCs could become smarter.
But those don't have to be born smart.

It's not a choice between "completely empty universe" and "fully automated AI"
There is middle ground.

Conclusion
In my opinion, not being able to understand that a player only game will always have a negative average happiness level shows that this new management will not make this game succeed.
 
And while I feel sad to trow this "bash" at NQ, in return to their needed reply, I feel that this bash is needed. Because there won't be a 3rd chance for this project.

Its simple math.

PS:
For all pvpers that want their prey to be 100% human.
Your prey will not join or continue to play the game if they only experience loss by your hands.

Lions can only hunt zebras because zebras have plants to eat
You are the lions.
New players are the zebras.
NPCs are the plants.
 

What a bunch of BS

1 single guy coding (in a productive manner) for 1 month can come up with a POC NPC.
It won't be any smart AI by any AI measurement.
It can be exploited fairly easily, yes.

But it would be something new to the game. Something for us to have a talk subject, for us to shoot, for us to complain, for us to have some "lols".
It would be something batter then this we have now.
 
All good projects start form POCs.
All big failures start with big teams.

Intruduction
 
In my opinion NPCs a hard requirement for this game to succeed for several reasons. Here are some:
 
Players don't have any obligation, and sometimes not even the skill to create good content.
NPCs are fundamental to create any kind of engaging content in the game.
 
With ships being so valuable and so hard to get, specially for new players, it is very unlikely that any battle will be a symmetric one.
NPCs a fundamental to give a chance for a new player to experience any kind of rewarding pvp instead of an instant rage-quit followed by a subscription cancellation.
 
Most players completely ignore other players not in their org.
NPCs are necessary for players to feel someone is around them on a station, or a base.
That they are not playing this game alone.

But most importantly.
For someone to win, someone has to lose.
Without NPCs to take the big losses, some players will be the losers. And who are those players that will be the losers?
New players of course. Being less organized, having less resources, knowing less information.
No new player will continue on the game if all their experience is loss after loss.
NPCs are fundamental for new players to train, get loot to compensate for their heavy losses and more importantly, to stabilize their happiness level.

NPCs in general are FUNDAMENTAL to keep the average level of happiness in positive levels. Instead of 2 or 3 big orgs having fun while everyone else cancels their subscriptions
 
Pain is stronger than joy.
PlayerA kills, and loots PlayerB

PlayerA gets 5 joy, PlayerB gets - 10 joy.
Avarage = -5

NPCS are needed to make it back to 0 avarage.

The development cost

I understand the cost of creating NPCs
 
NPCs able to navigate inside a dynamical created construct would be extremely hard to code and also extremely expensive.

But there are all kinds of NPCs. Not just those smart, walking ones.
 
The dispenser that gives new players their speeder parts could be a standing still NPC with 10 lines of dialog.
A standing still station that fires at everything that approaches, completely empty inside could be a NPC.
Some placeable standing still guy with dialog connected to some lua and configurable by players, could be a NPC.
Some standing still flower, spitting acid on passing by ppl could be a NPC

In time, with more budget, this dumb AI NPCs could become smarter.
But those don't have to be born smart.

It's not a choice between "completely empty universe" and "fully automated AI"
There is middle ground.

Conclusion
In my opinion, not being able to understand that a player only game will always have a negative average happiness level shows that this new management will not make this game succeed.
 
And while I feel sad to trow this "bash" at NQ, in return to their needed reply, I feel that this bash is needed. Because there won't be a 3rd chance for this project.

Its simple math.

PS:
For all pvpers that want their prey to be 100% human.
Your prey will not join or continue to play the game if they only experience loss by your hands.

Lions can only hunt zebras because zebras have plants to eat
You are the lions.
New players are the zebras.
NPCs are the plants.
 

Tnx for the reply, but sniff sniff for the answer. 

Sorry m8, long day here.

Then they did a great design choice there.

They can always scale with cost.

But at some point, the amount of data transfer between the client and the servers will be unacceptable.
PPl can't be expected to have 1gbit fiber with 5ms latency to play the game.

At some point, they will have to figure a way to reduce the data required to play the game.

I for once think the hole we make should slowly refill with time, reverting to "unaltered terrain" status. Excluding ofc the terrain change near bases.

I would also like an up to date answer from this Current new management about this.

Is NQ planning on adding NPCs to DU?
I'm not here to debate. My friends and I just want a clear answer, in order to decide whether or not we want to keep supporting this game. We no longer want to support a game that's promising 100% player driven world. We fell for it before with other games which promised the exact same thing, and frankly, we're certain that it'll never work. So again, is NQ planning on adding NPCs. 
Note: I'm NOT saying that NQ shouldn't stay true to their original vision, I am just saying that if they are, I personally don't want to give them my money. 

1 account per email. 
 
Yes, you can create several accounts with several emails. 
 
Anticheat program does not support multiple DU game instances running at the same time. 
Because of this, NQ does not allow you to login several accounts from the same computer. 
 
But you can run several games as long as each runs on its own machine. 
 
So this is within the rules:
2 pcs, running 1 game each. Each game logged in with 1 account. 
 
This is also within the rules:
1 pc, running 1 game. You have 2 accounts, but you logout from accountA and login into accountB. 
 
Also keep in mind that any kind of intelligent automation, is forbidden. 
 
You can run simple macros on keyboard and mouse. But you cannot run scripts that make decisions. 

You are mixing stuff.

Everyone has the right to give their opinion, informed or uninformed, in this forum.
Even if they haven't played a single second of the game yet.

It's up to the readers to READ and THINK about what they are reading.
It's up to us, to counterargument if we have a different opinion.
 
That's how free speech works.

How would you feel if i said that non alpha players should not give their opinion?
Or someone even older (in the project) than me said that only pre-alpha ppl should have an opinion?

But more importantly, the new player's opinion is very valuable.
It gives a 1st hand view about how the game is "currently" to a newcomer.
It gives us a good record of the misconceptions that new players have..

And even more importantly, Any new player can go and make a trash YouTube video to give their opinion, undisputed and unmoderated.....
Don't we prefer that he gives his opinion here? Where we can counterargument?

I love how disconnected some ppl are from reality. 

For starters, Congrats NQ for trying to communicate and doing it.

Right now you(NQ) have got yourselves  some room to move. Most of us will wait for a while before falling hard on you again.
And, It is quite important that we see some problems of the game being pointed out as "problems" by you.
 
The main change yet to see in communication is: When S hits the fan next time, and it will (bug, patch, priority, ban, exploit), will you remain communicative as we see right now? Or will we see more of that silence that we know so much?

About this part 3, some ppl have said it already and i agree:
Reducing pain is part of the task, but its not worth much if there is no fun at all.
 
NQ, ask yourselves  as players, not as devs.
Where is the fun part of the game? Is that "fun" durable or repeatable? Or restricted to the weeks 1 and 2? Or only for late game? Is this "fun" available to everyone? Or just big org members? Or just pirates? Is this "fun" enjoyable by most kinds of players? Or only grinders, builders or PVPes? Is this "fun" paid with a heavy sadness from other players? To me the game is not fun at this point. And I have all the quanta and resources I will ever need. 
 
Sure its fun to build a XS core. But above that, either I'm just joking around or it becomes complicated and not that fun.
This building fun will not keep me in a joy state for the next years to come.
 
Same as mining. 1st week of mining its actually not that bad. I found my self learning about how tools work and took pride of finding nodes faster than other ppl.
It was also a joy to receive my 1st paycheck from selling my ore. Knowing I could build something out of my earnings.
But can this joy fulfill me for years? Of course not.
How will automining increase my joy? 100% better than grinding all day, But by it self, brings no joy, just reduces pain.
 
How about the economy? Well, wining in the economy can bring some joy, sure. But at the expense of several others losing. While it brings diversity and an alternative way of playing the game. it is quite neutral in joy creation.
And with few big orgs doing most of the profit, joy is very limited...
Those big org members are working hard to be perfect. This is not that enjoyable. And competition is being squashed.

PVP is much like economy, quite neutral, or even negative for joy. For any winner there is a loser. For every loot gained, there is a huge frustration generated by loosing allot.

Again, cutting down on pain is Very Positive, and thank you.
But you still need to generate fun.

So here are some "easy" to implement suggestions for fun creation:
PVP duels/arena. Some place where ppl can go and shoot each other, with (informed) consent and with little to no consequence.
With both players being able to bring back their ships after the fight
  Directional voice chat. RP is very important for sustainable fun. Being able to say some words to the surrounding ppl, or to your ship, is quite important,
  NPCs and NPC loot is a must. No way around this. The only way to have a "positive joy balance" is to transport most of the sadness to NPCs.
I know this is hard to program. But start with dummy stuff. With little or zero AI, Like:
A Static station with just auto-firing turrets that will shoot at anyone in range. With a loot box inside.
Or a Non Voxel ship, simply a custom-made 3d model that will have an HP bar and will shoot at ships. When it blows up, a container with loot is spawned.
Or simply spawn loot boxes and clues to those around the map.
  Make it easier for ppl to move around. A good amount of joy comes from social interaction and team gameplay. But its quite hard to have team gameplay when someone needs 3 hours of millions of quanta in warp cells to come joy the team.
Fast travel is needed. In a way that it can only be used for avatars and never for cargo.
One idea is to UnNerf the surrogate.

You said:
"There’s a delicate balance to strike between staying as true as we can to the original vision, making smart design and production choices, taking players’ feedback into consideration, and creating more opportunities for community engagement. The game needs to be challenging but, most of all, fun. It can be a tall order sometimes, but not an impossible goal"

I say: Screw the original vision.
Most has been proven to be a sad failure:
Players don't give a damn about building any kind of civilization, they just want to fulfill their joy or close DU and run another game. Player exclusive economy is making every little guy being squashed by big orgs. Player made content made players quit because of lack of content. Instead, do what you must to make this work. To make us feel joy.

Good luck.
 

True. But is there a point here? 
Dont we all know the game is not currently viable? 
It is assumed the project is rebooting with this new managment and reboots take time. 
 
From the player perspective, was there a choice? Do we want to play a non viable game? 
 
The only thing worth asking is:
What about the investors and funds? Havr the investors agreed with a new round of funding and the extended time needed to fix this game? 
 
If yes. Then im quite happy with it. 

I could have some kind of comment about this part 2 but, the real future of DU is on part 3.
 
The future of DU has little to do with 10% performance or 10% cost. 
The future of DU is all about having some kind of fun and social reward while playing the game instead of pain and frustration. 

Sure, but it within "the best to be expected" taking into account the situation. 
 
And beats total silence allot. 
 
We have also seen 2 comunications days appart. 
 
I think we have no reason to be jumping in joy. But we also have little to be critical about. 
 
Lets give this new managment some time to prove its not just words. 

This type of MMO games have a infrastructure operating cost. 
 
Unless this evolves into a pay to win game, it is impossible to not pay a sub. 
 
Sure some one can make a DU copy and sell it for 40€. But that game will at most connect to a server with 50 ppl inside. It will not be a MMO. 
 
 
From the gamer's prespective. A subscription price has to be calculated regarding the time enjoyed playing the game. 
 
Someone playing 2 hours a day will be spending 1/200 of their paycheck for something that fills their joy for 1/12 of their life time. 
 
It is cheaper than buying a new SP game every 3 months. Cheeper than going to the cinema 2 times a month. 
Cheeper than going to McDonald's 2 times a month. 
Cheeper than Netflix. 
 

+1 for comunication. 
+10 for comprehensive comunication instead expected corporative messages.