rothbardian reacted to Pilot 901 in Social Sciences
We all know that DU is a game based on it's community, which is supposed to build civilizations : cities, politics, economy etc ... Players will act according to their personal feelings and by their own means to reach their goals.
What i was wondering about, is that it could be a very good experiment to observe all the different behaviors player could have (builders, traders, warriors, diplomats ...) and their interactions, like a huge mini-world with potentially thousands of guinea pigs (us ^^') !
This kind of stuff happened in WOW when a bug just spread a contagious virus in the game that created a real plague situation (The Corrupted Blood incident), and it has been a really interesting event for people who were looking to analyze player's behavior (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood_incident#Models_for_real-world_research).
To me, DU is an opportunity for social scientists to look for similar situations.
rothbardian reacted to yamamushi in Are we absolutely sure about a pay by subscription model?
Microtransactions can't sustain long term development, it would be a cat and mouse game of constantly trying to -
1) Gain players
2) Create new content to sell to players
Whereas DU is going to be a constantly evolving game, dedicating resources to creating new expansions on top of trying to push out constant microtransaction-backed content would be an uphill battle that would hurt everyone in the long run. It's hard enough for them to keep up development speed now with all of the resources they have.
A subscription allows them to have a solid metric on how much money they are bringing in every month and allows them the flexibility that the constant fluctuation of microtranscation-based income wouldn't give them.
People think servers are cheap, and of course someone is going to go to the AWS pricing page and try and point out "oh but you can get instances for dollars a month it can't be that expensive!" but running infra in AWS isn't cheap, it's just cheaper than building out a data center with all of your own hardware to maintain. NQ has really strict hardware and rack requirements that add to those costs (I was told it's more akin to a weather modeling supercomputer than a traditional gaming cluster), and as they scale up to match the needs of their growing player base it's only going to get more expensive over time. At a previous job we were spending $150k a month alone on our web frontend, and if you counted all of the other supporting infra we had for our product, it was something like $3.5 million a month, it wasn't cheap, it was just cheaper than the alternatives. Nobody is going to convince me that microtransactions are the way to go when you have to pay for infra, employees, long term development, support, offices, advertising, etc. This isn't Fortnite where the core game isn't changing and they are tweaking things from time to time while adding new items to their store, DU's development is on a whole other level from that.
Regardless of all of that, I think the bottom line here is that if you can't afford to pay $10-$15 a month for a game, then you need to reprioritize your hobbies (irrespective of the fact that DAC's allow people to play for free essentially).
rothbardian reacted to Shockeray in Shockeray's Dual Universe Community Map 1.1.x
2019-06-28 - Top 500 Organizations
This is every organization with at least 3 members (or should be). Almost 7,000 nodes and 10,000 edges.
Still just an image. I don't have the current ability to make the data interactive unless you have Gephi and want the file.
Full Size Download (20480 x 20480 png): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KjwDCeBsAKUZ5uceLXGUPXCV5dfHWoY4
EDIT: The correct updated map link now! ^
rothbardian reacted to Quillon in Pandora's Sanctuary needs caretakers
We are Calm
We are The Box
We don't have leaders, we have caretakers.
We don't have problems, we have solutions.
We don't have questions, we have Answers
We are The Box
We don't bring War, we bring Pandora
We are The Sanctuary
Accept the challenge or stay far away from us.
Once infected there is no return.
Now Run........It got out.
rothbardian reacted to Aaron Cain in Myriad - A Marketplace and Social Hub
You are correct, all pillars should be provided to be able to reach these goals. For any city or Free market it will be the same, lack any of those pillars or add any restriction, even small ones, will lead you from the path.
But it might be easier then most people think, although visions of golden mountains on some organization owners already make sure they are out of the competition.
breaking it down to the pillars:
High volume: Most organizations i see start by opening a market for their stuff and mostly their stuff, they mine, craft design or build. With this its a single market with only a few commodities that are very dependent on that organization. this is more a trade contract than a market. in the end this will probably be less vital and it would be best for these organizations to make indeed trade treaties or use a market from someone else.
Security: in general it looks like everyone wants to do their own security, fragmenting players and getting a lot of small security forces. This will probably work only for a limited time, and probably in one timezone. There are a lot of organizations, mercenaries or others with well organized military ranks and that are for hire as security force. As these organizations pay well for these services to their members it is to be assumed that in the end all players who want to do security will flock there to follow a good organized chain of command with a well payed job. this would mean for any player that wants to do security tasks it is best to look for those organizations, and if an organization wants to do it itself and gives more tasks to the players beside security it will be ineffective and open for non-security
Tax: This is the most easy pillar, add taxes and people will look elsewhere, add more taxes and more people will go else where. Now, how to profit then? Well for starters, are you a free market or not? What does free mean in this case, free of tax, free of fees, free to do business? all three? Well if you have all three your out of business soon as you have no income. You cannot have a free market with no income. Unless, you have a free market to be able to add your own high volume of materials or crafts or other stuff. Or you have dealings with other high players who Do have these high volumes and like to pay you something to use our market. What is wrong with a fee? Nothing as long as you offer something in return for it, like security or contacts to potential buyers.
So indeed free markets are fun but you need to well organize them in order to be fruitful. And from what i have seen only some are actually doing this, @Belispeak Myriad does have the potential to indeed be able to get this working, the contacts i know you already made and the security you are working on will make this a possibility.
And we are very willing to help you get further in this!!!! When Tranquility pledges to help, and we do that more often then most people know, we do keep our word on it, not only in alpha or alpha 2 when needed but when it counts, at release. When things get real!
rothbardian got a reaction from Belispeak in Myriad - A Marketplace and Social Hub
Thoughts on Myriad Free Market and Its Security (Part II):
Three pillars of free market are high liquidity (high volume), security (provided by insurance companies and private security enterprises) and taxfree. Frankly, Dual Universe metaverse will be totally chaotic environment where courts or law has no meaning at all. Anarchy rules. Period.
Don't get me wrong and please don't confuse the word of chaos with anarchy. There is no accepted meaning to the word “anarchism” itself. The average person may think he knows what it means, especially that it is bad, but actually he does not. One very popular charge against anarchism is that it “means chaos.” anarchists have always believed that the establishment of their system would eliminate the chaotic elements now troubling the world. The root of the word comes from the term anarchos, meaning opposition to authority or commands.
If every Myriad citizen has the absolute right to his justly-held property it then follows that he has the right to keep that property — to defend it by violence against violent invasion. Furthermore, if every citizen has the right to defend his person and property against attack, then he must also have the right to hire or accept the aid of other people to do such defending: he may employ or accept defenders just as he may employ or accept the volunteer services of gardeners on his lawn.
(Note: Absolute pacifists who also assert their belief in property rights are caught in an inescapable inner contradiction: for if a man owns property and yet is denied the right to defend it against attack, then it is clear that a very important aspect of that ownership is being denied to him. To say that someone has the absolute right to a certain property but lacks the right to defend it against attack or invasion is also to say that he does not have total right to that property.)
rothbardian got a reaction from Belispeak in Could a Decentralised City Function?
Once one strong competitor arises to challenge it, the cartel is doomed. For as the firms in the cartel are bound by production quotas, they must watch new competitors expand and take away sales from them at an accelerating rate. As a result, the cartel must break up under the pressure of the newcomers’ competition.
rothbardian reacted to Miamato in Could a Decentralised City Function?
This is a good reason for other fuel suppliers to feed the market, as they can earn more here now.
Or you can start doing fuel business on your own and decrease actual fuel price for your self as well as sell some fuel on market with high prices
rothbardian reacted to Zephos in Realistic incentives for City building
Great post. It gave me some ideas.
When they implement orgs in the game, they could do the following:
Each org gets an Organization Territory Unit and several organization static cores. Once that territory unit is placed, members above a certain rank can deploy and edit the static cores ONLY within that territory in close proximity. Them more members you have, the more cores the org gets (maybe even one per member?). If the org reaches a certain size, they get more territory units.
This would allow orgs to build bases/cities and create the clustering you talked about. They could also get a lot of the other benefits you mentioned. Maybe they train skills faster when inside the territory/ base? That kind of thing would work.
rothbardian reacted to Aaron Cain in Politics, Government and Player Voting Power
I vote anarchy. No reason provided, because....anarchy doesnt need a reason, just all be free, rules? Where we are going we dont need rules.
Organizations, thats something different. When you enter those, they have rules and you should follow those rules, but outside the organization? No rules unless there are rules in the org that state behaviour outside the org.
rothbardian reacted to Belispeak in Ability To House Smaller Dynamic Constructs inside of larger Dynamic Constructs
Say you have a large megastructure planetside or in space it will be useful to have this ability.
People could rent and customise rented rooms as they please or build a certain part of your structure with no risk of them griefing your overall project.
This way people have more autonomy and it's less risk and work for the megastructure owner if these people just have permission to edit a specific core rather than the main core.
Somewhat Similar Post -
rothbardian got a reaction from Belispeak in Myriad - A Marketplace and Social Hub
Most important part of any successful market is high liquidity. And this can be done by market makers (buying and selling same product with a spread). Without market makers, traded items' bid and ask prices would be very wide which means low activity on a market. So, it is great to have free market with Austrian economics as a background, as long as high liquidity ensured. I'll support this market as long as decentralized approach intact. Regulation and security would be another issues once the liquidity problem solved.
rothbardian reacted to Belispeak in Could a Decentralised City Function?
A social experiment:
Could players live and work together in a city that has no government, no organisation with complete control?
What if each territory unit in a city was 100% controlled by a different organisation?
What if we built a city in DU based on an anarcho-capitalist model?
In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts and all other security services would be operated by privately funded competitors selected by consumers rather than centrally through confiscatory taxation. Money, along with all other goods and services, would be privately and competitively provided in an open market.
whether or not this would work in real life aside, I think this would be a far more enjoyable way to play the game. Not only would it be more enjoyable it would be a lot easier for the city to function as a whole. It would function like a natural ecosystem where things just happen naturally between different organisations, once you take a step back and view the city from outside you would find an extremely complex web of mutually beneficial relationships. It boils down to this, many players making much smaller individual decisions would be more enjoyable and more efficient than a select few elite members of one organisation calling the shots.
rothbardian reacted to Belispeak in Myriad - A Marketplace and Social Hub
Myriad is a social hub and marketplace for Dual Universe Players. At Myriad you can select quests, trade, and form new alliances before exploring the universe.
We encourage our members to also join other organisations. Our focus is on creating an economic capital and this means that our owned territory will initially be limited to a single Marketplace/Social Hub Building. This Marketplace Hub will form the epicentre of a collaborative effort by many different organisations to create a hotspot of economic activity revolving around a single marketplace, Ours.
When applying please include what you think you can bring to the organisation or why you want to join.
Based on free market principles and Austrian economics, Myriad will function via decentralised command with members having extremely high autonomy and will seek to collaborate alongside each other for economic interests. We will not have a military presence, our strength comes from economic inclusion, if you break the non-aggression principle you may be subject to high trading fees or economic isolation.
Zero Marketplace fees. Seamless access to marketplace; simply dock your ship, sell your goods, refuel, and leave in a matter of minutes.
None Members will be subject to a 10% Trading fee.
Phase I - Our initial goal is to create a Home Base for Players, this will be a single Tower Structure forming the foundation of a city. This will be a great place for players to start their adventures in Dual Universe, having everything they need in close proximity. We envision a great tower structure with a Plaza, Ship Hanger, Marketplace, Quest Board, Courier Centre, and more. All completely player driven of course.
Phase II - Start expanding outwards from our marketplace eventually creating a city. We will invite other organisations to create their own districts surrounding our marketplace which will be under the complete control of said organisations.
Phase III - Franchisee Outposts on other worlds & Trading routes.
Phase IV - CLASSIFIED.
Players will find missions via a Quest Boards and missions may include:
Bounty Hunting Cargo Transportation Crafting Any other needs the market generates
The users who generate and post missions may be concerned with who will carry out their missions. This is where our ranking system comes in. We will give an example based on cargo transportation missions below.
Tier 1 - Player has not completed any cargo haul missions
Tier 2 - Player has completed 3 successfully
Tier 3 - Player has completed 10 successfully
Tier 4 - and so on…
If the cargo is particularly valuable the mission creator will have the option to require a pledge which will act as collateral to cover theft or space piracy. Pledge will be released on completion of the task.
Each user will have their stats tracked eg. ( 94% mission completion rate, 94 successes, 6 failure to succeed.)
rothbardian reacted to Aaron Cain in Tranquility, the ever moving City in space
With great pride i thank all our residents for the next keystone in our development.
We reached 60 residents, together with the known travelers we will get it is now time to start building on our next Districts!
Anyone interested in a district, loves social interaction Ingame, and thinks our simple laws and rules are simple and convenient is free to join or talk to Any member of the Adventure Squad one or Two.
Hope to see you all soon in the city That never sleeps!!!
rothbardian reacted to Aaron Cain in A New planet
Maybe change the idea to let the planet have a very dence asteroit like belt covering the whole planet. In that case only small vehicles can pass those asteroids unless someone mines them all. And to make that an option not lucrative, lets only add minerals/ores on the planet and make the belt void of anything.
rothbardian got a reaction from Ralgimanek in Corporatism
Man is born naked into the world, and needing to use his mind to learn how to take the resources given him by nature, and to transform them (for example, by investment in “capital”) into shapes and forms and places where the resources can be used for the satisfaction of his wants and the advancement of his standard of living. The only way by which man can do this is by the use of his mind and energy to transform resources (“production”) and to exchange these products for products created by others. Man has found that, through the process of voluntary, mutual exchange, the productivity and hence, the living standards of all participants in exchange may increase enormously. The only “natural” course for man to survive and to attain wealth, therefore, is by using his mind and energy to engage in the production-and-exchange process. He does this, first, by finding natural resources, and then by transforming them (by “mixing his labor” with them, as Locke puts it), to make them his individual property, and then by exchanging this property for the similarly obtained property of others. The social path dictated by the requirements of man’s nature, therefore, is the path of “property rights” and the “free market” of gift or exchange of such rights. Through this path, men have learned how to avoid the “jungle” methods of fighting over scarce resources so that A can only acquire them at the expense of B and, instead, to multiply those resources enormously in peaceful and harmonious production and exchange. The great German sociologist Franz Oppenheimer pointed out that there are two mutually exclusive ways of acquiring wealth; one, the above way of production and exchange, he called the “ economic means.” The other way is simpler in that it does not require productivity; it is the way of seizure of another’s goods or services by the use of force and violence. This is the method of one-sided confiscation, of theft of the property of others. This is the method which Oppenheimer termed “the political means” to wealth.
It should be clear that the peaceful use of reason and energy in production is the “natural” path for man: the means for his survival and prosperity on this earth. It should be equally clear that the coercive, exploitative means is contrary to natural law; it is parasitic, for instead of adding to production, it subtracts from it. The “political means” siphons production off to a parasitic and destructive individual or group; and this siphoning not only subtracts from the number producing, but also lowers the producer’s incentive to produce beyond his own subsistence. In the long run, the robber destroys his own subsistence by dwindling or eliminating the source of his own supply. But not only that; even in the short-run, the predator is acting contrary to his own true nature as a man.
We are now in a position to answer more fully the question: what is the State? The State, in the words of Oppenheimer, is the “organization of the political means”; it is the systematization of the predatory process over a given territory. For crime, at best, is sporadic and uncertain; the parasitismis ephemeral, and the coercive, parasitic lifeline may be cut off at any time by the resistance of the victims. The State provides a legal, orderly, systematic channel for the predation of private property; it renders certain, secure, and relatively “peaceful” the lifeline of the parasitic caste in society.
rothbardian reacted to Eternal in Corporatism
A "Corporatist" System means that the Corporate Group is the basic unit of society and 'is' the State. The problem with this game, is there is no Fiat System. The supply of Quanta comes from Marketplace-NPC, and it's cap (total supply) is Centralized (regulated) by the game itself. So what does Financial Planning (Capitalism) and Physical Planning (Socialism) mean to Private individuals in this game?
The Public Government doesn't even regulate the currency! There is no Central Bank that prints and distributes money. Why would the Private Sector want to be governed by a Public entity and pay it's Tax if it doesn't need a Central Government, and instead, can govern itself corporately using it's Investors' funds, develop financial planning, and handle all the budget allocation for the interest of the Corporate State and it's Employees?
The Employees who earn their wages from the Corporate State do not need to pay any Tax. They receive their wages without a single Tax Deductions. There is no Tax System. Spend all those Wages all you want. There are no Public Assets here. We only have Corporate Assets (funded and owned by the corporate Shareholders. A "Share" is a unit of Stock or ownership of the Corporation and it's entire Assets) and Assets of Employees (funded and owned by the Employees. They can pool their money to acquire Assets and share it between themselves if they want). Land and space distribution as well is divided by these ownership of Assets (Employees can also purchase and own land and space).
Who should fund the Military budget for the Security of the State? Well, the Corporate State itself and it's business is an Investment. It is the responsibility of Investors and they should fund them (Investing in Security doesn't make you any money. It is not an Income-generating Asset. So how does Investors make money from that? You give them Stakes in the company for Investing in Security! You still need to fund necessities such as Security, it is vital to the operation of the company, therefore it is deserving of it's Stake!) How about the Employees who are benefiting from the Security which is a necessity for the protection of their Assets? It is one of their Employee Benefits provided by the Corporation! With benefits like these, it makes their Employment attractive, and so Employees are more willing to stay and keep working for the company.
Employees can also choose to Invest in the company using their earned wages and money. We have Portfolio Investment and we have Equity Investment (with or without Dividend). If they do choose to invest, they become Investors or Shareholders in the Company depending on what type of Investment. Investors (except Passive Investors) have to manage the risks of their Investments (it's their own money!). Their responsibilities in the company grow by choosing to become Investors. What happens when they mismanage? They lose their own money due to their own mismanagement! Nobody will manage the risks but the Investors themselves.
Employees can also choose to be a Creditor to the company and also get paid Interest per time. Creditors are Stakeholders like Employees, they are not Investors. They don't have the responsibilities of an Investor.
ROI (Return on Investment) and Interest Rates are incentives for the Employees to Invest their money in the State (which is the company itself). They have the option to participate in the business by funding it's expansion (if they don't want greater responsibilities, they can just offer Loans or be a Passive Investor). It's a good incentive for Investment (you will be rewarded with more money if you Invest rather than spend in Consumption).
THIS IS A MORE EQUITABLE SYSTEM.
THERE IS NO CENTRALIZED ECONOMY PER ORG, THE ECONOMY IS THE WHOLE GAME ITSELF REGULATED BY THE GAME IN TERMS OF QUANTA SUPPLY (It is a Free Market, you don't need any government). THERE IS NO NATIONAL ECONOMY (We follow the Supply and Demand of the whole game).
Thoughts? Also, are there any existing Orgs with a system like this?