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Would a stock market analogue work in a game like this? In the real world, it always seemed to me like stocks are only worth anything to someone because everyone else wants them. That's how it always seemed to me anyway, I've never been big into the stock market.

 

However, in the game, what with organizations and how big a role it seems they'll play along with player-driven content, I feel like a stock market system, albeit on a small scale, could be something that would work in Dual Universe.

 

I could also see it NOT working of course, like someone who owns tons of stock just stops playing. Or, no one is ever really interested in it and it becomes a mechanic no one pays attention to.

 

I feel like it could go either way but I'm rather unfamiliar with the real stock market. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

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in the stock market you sell shares to the dividend of companies, you could do the same here, and it would be quite usefull for early funding.

Thing is you sell a promise you will share a bit of your revenue from the future.

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Personally, I'm not a fan of selling shares, though I understand the benefits. I'm not sure how it will play out, we do have a few organizations on the rise who plan on selling and buying (Silverlight industries for an example, and the faction I am part of, the DUA) I suppose we'll need to wait to find out. It's safe to say some kind of market will begin.

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in short, A stock or share is buying a part of the company. Companies do this to raise money. Some companies pay dividend to share holders from their profits, whist usually people will buy shares as they believe that the shares will increase in value over time. When you buy shares of a company, you own a piece of that company and therefore have a vote in how it is run. While there are different classes of shares (a company can issue shares more than once), typically owning shares gives you voting rights equal to the number of shares you own. Shareholders as a whole, based on their individual votes, select a Board of Directors and can vote on major decisions the company is making.

 

As to how this may work in game will depend on several things, However it may be that when companies set to start their really ambitious projects they may need to raise funds and selling shares in their organization may be a way to do it. It would require a player run stock exchange which we do not know as of yet if mechanics for this will be possible as well as many other mechanics yet to be confirmed. It may be possible to do without mechanics, but would require a lot of effort player side initially to run. 

 

If some one who owns a high number of shares stops playing .. this may effect what is called volume. Volume is how many shares change hands in a day, A stock that has lots of daily volume is attractive to investors because the volume means they can easily buy or sell their shares whenever they please. When some one stops playing who has lots of shares this would probably not really effect much, as once a company has preformed its I.P.O it no longer makes money from its shares.

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Multi investors projects is different from stock market

 

Stock market is public, so means DU would have to developpe an interface for that

 

Multi investors projects will be only based on a player made ingame contract and trust, but ingame trust and RL trust is a way different, and dont count on NQ to chasse the one who will break this contract

 

If a stock market appears, i promiss i ll launch a universe wide real estate

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You could have "share certificates" as a physical item that organisations could issue (with permission of at least 50% of existing shareholders) that are linked to voting rights in the organisation.

 

Its been confirmed that there will be EVE style buy and sell orders at trade terminals so if you are buying and selling share certificates to the public you have basically created a stock exchange in game or you could trade them privately between players or give them away or whatever you like.

 

Making sure unscrupulous players don't sell loads of shares and then run away with the profits will be a real challenge but once organisations are a established and have gained reputation I think it could work.

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Making sure unscrupulous players don't sell loads of shares and then run away with the profits will be a real challenge but once organisations are a established and have gained reputation I think it could work.

 

You got here the master issue, universe will be ... will be... the universe

 

And it will be crowded with pirates and people who will abuse of the systems instored by organisations

 

Organization wide stock market why not, but not universe wide

 

The "take command" system, is in every way much more stable

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The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.

 

In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

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The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.

 

In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

 

sorry i have no idea about Eve, i never played

So if NQ plans to add one, its a serious deal

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The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.

 

In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

 

If the founder of the org controls >51% of the shares you are shit out of luck but that's the same as real life. If shares were a built in game mechanic the share holders could at least vote out the founder if they don't play by the rules.

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It is certainly something I would like to have a discussion about with players who are interested in such a thing to see if we can start to work out a way to implement such a system. I think almost all financial aspects of the game are waiting on how detailed, thought out and extensive the tagging/powers mechanics are, but if enough of us come together we could make it work.

 

Something we will have to wait for as more is revealed about these mechanics.

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If the founder of the org controls >51% of the shares you are shit out of luck but that's the same as real life. If shares were a built in game mechanic the share holders could at least vote out the founder if they don't play by the rules.

I think you should remember that, when a company places its shares on the market .. It may not be placing its entire company, but only 20% So if you own all of those shares, you only own 20% of that company. Not every company pays dividends as well so remember this when conducting your brokering, offering dividends is a good way to increase your volume but not essential if your shares are forecast to raise in value as people will trade them anyway if they feel they stand to make profit from re sale.

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 offering dividends is a good way to increase your volume but not essential if your shares are forecast to raise in value as people will trade them anyway if they feel they stand to make profit from re sale.

 

Basically what amazon does, never paid dividends the entire time it has been publicly traded

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Eve does not have a stock system like were discussing here, unless recently implimented. We managed out own dividens.

 

And while you cant control a companie uf you dont have the majority, thats not what I ment. Say I buy stock with the agreement i get a dividen payout based on net profit. What gaurentees they pay me. They could give fradulant profit numbers. But they could also publish they made billions and just not pay out dividens if theres no system in place.

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ahh I see 

 

Eve does not have a stock system like were discussing here, unless recently implimented. We managed out own dividens.

And while you cant control a companie uf you dont have the majority, thats not what I ment. Say I buy stock with the agreement i get a dividen payout based on net profit. What gaurentees they pay me. They could give fradulant profit numbers. But they could also publish they made billions and just not pay out dividens if theres no system in place.

 

The confusion here is that stock prices are not set by how much a company earns as such, but actually by supply and demand. The initial stock will be based on such things as gross profit, forecast growth, % of company offered and how much the company wishes to raise, this is done by investment bankers and a few other financial specialists. Once trading starts, share prices are largely determined by the forces of supply and demand . A company that demonstrates long-term earnings potential may attract more buyers, thereby enjoying an increase in share prices. A company with a poor outlook, on the other hand, may attract more sellers than buyers, which can result in lower prices. In general, prices rise during periods of increased demand - when there are more buyers than sellers. Prices fall during periods of increased supply - when there are more sellers than buyers. A continuous rise in prices is known as an uptrend, and a continuous drop in prices in called a downtrend.

 

Usually what will happen to promote trade or "volume" is that the company will release its shares at a discount before its official market release. Then once stocks go into the market a large portion have been bought to encourage sellers. Dividends obviously work in a different way and are subject to profits, and many investors will look to find companies that pay a high dividend. In your case we would need to find a way to get accurate data and yes hold them into account for paying their dividend, however just because you don't receive a dividend doesn't mean you cannot still profit from your shares.

 

As mentioned though, how we choose to run the stock market could be different and I welcome any who wish to discuss it. We can set our own practices for the stock exchange provided that they are fair, open and will work. Let this be the first community political debate we set in motion for our future in DU.

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The first thread I ever made on this forum was about how to tackle the stock market and economy issue in a secure and unforgeable manner.

 

I'll just leave a link to this forum thread here:

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/603-cryptographically-secure-market-features-using-open-transactions/

 

Granted, most people did not understand what I was talking about in that thread at all, and many people were angry at me accusing me of arguing for a RMT system in DU and completely taking the point of my post way off topic. 

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Would a stock market analogue work in a game like this? In the real world, it always seemed to me like stocks are only worth anything to someone because everyone else wants them. That's how it always seemed to me anyway, I've never been big into the stock market.

 

However, in the game, what with organizations and how big a role it seems they'll play along with player-driven content, I feel like a stock market system, albeit on a small scale, could be something that would work in Dual Universe.

 

I could also see it NOT working of course, like someone who owns tons of stock just stops playing. Or, no one is ever really interested in it and it becomes a mechanic no one pays attention to.

 

I feel like it could go either way but I'm rather unfamiliar with the real stock market. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

Both planet Entropia and Second Life had stock markets at the some stage. Both were shut down by government lawsuits. Both faced multi-million dollar fines if they continued. No company has tried since. It happens to be illegal world wide. Government's do not differentiate between real and virtual markets because the both are electronic and can be just as real in terms of tax, fraud and latter may show up the real thing. The bitcoin markets are fighting hard but it's costing a lot of real time and money. Even voluntary lawyers cost money. 

 

It has also happened in other fields, i.e. hacking in games: http://www.sjgames.com/SS/  Governments sometimes can't tell fiction from reality. 

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Both planet Entropia and Second Life had stock markets at the some stage. Both were shut down by government lawsuits. Both faced multi-million dollar fines if they continued. No company has tried since. It happens to be illegal world wide. Government's do not differentiate between real and virtual markets because the both are electronic and can be just as real in terms of tax, fraud and latter may show up the real thing. The bitcoin markets are fighting hard but it's costing a lot of real time and money. Even voluntary lawyers cost money. 

 

It has also happened in other fields, i.e. hacking in games: http://www.sjgames.com/SS/  Governments sometimes can't tell fiction from reality. 

 

Thats nuts, trading stocks for an in game organisation is the same as a real life one in the eyes of the law? What's next? Am I going to have to declare my income from space piracy on my tax returns to the UK goverment?

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Both planet Entropia and Second Life had stock markets at the some stage. Both were shut down by government lawsuits. Both faced multi-million dollar fines if they continued. No company has tried since. It happens to be illegal world wide. Government's do not differentiate between real and virtual markets because the both are electronic and can be just as real in terms of tax, fraud and latter may show up the real thing. The bitcoin markets are fighting hard but it's costing a lot of real time and money. Even voluntary lawyers cost money. 

 

It has also happened in other fields, i.e. hacking in games: http://www.sjgames.com/SS/  Governments sometimes can't tell fiction from reality. 

 

they did it with real money, and that cannot happen. the question here is with in-game money that cannot go out IRL and that is done byquite some games.

 

Thats nuts, trading stocks for an in game organisation is the same as a real life one in the eyes of the law? What's next? Am I going to have to declare my income from space piracy on my tax returns to the UK goverment?

 

Companies and Politics get really scared and angry when they don't get their share of the cake, that's the sad world we live in...

Using their power to bully people to take away their legitimate tax-paying profit. They either want that for them, or want to keep the money in their country...

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The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.

 

In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.

"Good day, DevisDevine. I like this idea. Shares could be given out by companies to their members of people they sell them to. Having a share makes you entitled to a fraction of the organisation's income or profit, but it should tie you to some responsibility. It could be that or shares could also be initially sold for a few hundred times their value."

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I hope we are all on the same page here, that this stock market, is going to be in game, using in game money, player made, and will run on unconfirmed mechanics. yammas post can be a little confusing, but he is just basically asking the devs if they wish to use a pre made platform that would run like a real stock market would. This would allow us, the players to have a real stock exchange in game (where no irl money was made just in game money and resources) that would help to hold organizations responsible for paying their dividends ect. Please correct me if I am wrong yamma.

 

It is up to us how we choose to run the stock market, if at all. And it depends on mechanics yet to be confirmed like most of the financial services within the game.

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Thats nuts, trading stocks for an in game organisation is the same as a real life one in the eyes of the law? What's next? Am I going to have to declare my income from space piracy on my tax returns to the UK goverment?

Careful what you wish for. lol. It has happened already. 

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Wait you guys dont claim the billions of ISK earned from piracy on your taxes. No wonder the IRS never told me who to send the ISK too.

 

"Good day, DevisDevine. I like this idea. Shares could be given out by companies to their members of people they sell them to. Having a share makes you entitled to a fraction of the organisation's income or profit, but it should tie you to some responsibility. It could be that or shares could also be initially sold for a few hundred times their value."

Well the dividen stocks are typically much larger than the payouts. But think of it like the big league kickstarter. You front the money for the stocks that lets the company spend it for whatever, and in return you get a share of the profits at a later time, assuming they succeed.

 

Now Im mo expert in all types of stocks and find the majority of the real world market fradulent, but there's numerous ways NQ could impliment some sort of stocks and investments.

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