World Size "God Mode" video feedback

[Archonious]

Hi,

 

Watched last video yesterday, but didn't have time to leave message/feedback.

 

Since we all know that all players will start on same planet and same place, this starting planet looks very small. This opinion is based on "Space Engineers" experience, where players start on same planet (ofc it depend of server). And it is very big risk to build base even for few days (played on planets with similar size). But the biggest difference, there are 10-20 players on SE servers, but you want allow hundreeds or thousands of players start close to each other.

Players will not be in safe at all, many of them will try to kill, steal or even troll (especially with 1 month trial). Bases of players will be everywhere, because size of the planet is small. Ofc there could be some Teritory Defence Units or any other defences.

Then we get another problem - resources. This is long term problem. Since everyone start at the same point, closest resources will gone very fast. Regrowing on maintenances? But what will happens with bases under the ground?

 

In my opinion, starting planet size need to be much bigger. Yes it won't solve everything, but it will reduce size of the problems.

 

And yes, I'm speaking about starting planet only. Any other planet could be as standard size on video, because population on them would be smaller.

 

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Anasasi]

You bring up good points.

The planets are about 30KM in diameter (from last heard, they were having Stability issues beyond that). But you have to remember, the video shows him travelling a lot faster than we will, so the planets may seem really small, etc. 
And Again, they are just in a testing environment, that may not be the final Alioth.

Your issues makes sense though, regeneration would be necessary at some form of downtime. With a lot of people comes trolls and grievers as you have stated, and yes, that will happen, but it will always happen. 
The thing is, I believe that by the time the game is that size, we will be in space and able to breathe a little bit. 
Whilst the problems may end up being prevalent, we'll have to see how big the planets really feel with players in one area, which will only happen after it reaches alpha!

Good thoughts though.
(Sorry if I rambled, I am tired) 

[wesbruce]

Hi,

 

Watched last video yesterday, but didn't have time to leave message/feedback.

 

Since we all know that all players will start on same planet and same place, this starting planet looks very small. This opinion is based on "Space Engineers" experience, where players start on same planet (ofc it depend of server). And it is very big risk to build base even for few days (played on planets with similar size). But the biggest difference, there are 10-20 players on SE servers, but you want allow hundreeds or thousands of players start close to each other.

Players will not be in safe at all, many of them will try to kill, steal or even troll (especially with 1 month trial). Bases of players will be everywhere, because size of the planet is small. Ofc there could be some Teritory Defence Units or any other defences.

Then we get another problem - resources. This is long term problem. Since everyone start at the same point, closest resources will gone very fast. Regrowing on maintenances? But what will happens with bases under the ground?

 

In my opinion, starting planet size need to be much bigger. Yes it won't solve everything, but it will reduce size of the problems.

 

And yes, I'm speaking about starting planet only. Any other planet could be as standard size on video, because population on them would be smaller.

 

 

Thanks,

Archonious

A 30 km planet is 11300 square kilometres. Two kilometres deep. 22000 cubic km! That a lot of space to hide mineral ores. I suspect the larger organisations will leave the Novark zone early for their own bases well before the resources in the novark zone are stripped. If ore resources are place-able they may never run out.  The ark zone is 20 r by 2 deep. ~2513 cubic km! 

[Archonious]

You bring up good points.

The planets are about 30KM in diameter (from last heard, they were having Stability issues beyond that). But you have to remember, the video shows him travelling a lot faster than we will, so the planets may seem really small, etc.

And Again, they are just in a testing environment, that may not be the final Alioth.

Your issues makes sense though, regeneration would be necessary at some form of downtime. With a lot of people comes trolls and grievers as you have stated, and yes, that will happen, but it will always happen.

The thing is, I believe that by the time the game is that size, we will be in space and able to breathe a little bit.

Whilst the problems may end up being prevalent, we'll have to see how big the planets really feel with players in one area, which will only happen after it reaches alpha!

Good thoughts though.

(Sorry if I rambled, I am tired)

 

I don't take speed or any mechanic as side of analyse. It is unknown parameter. I compare with closest project (IMO).

I don't know what kind of PvP mechanic will be created, how good will be defence, how easy will be to avoid/abuse defence. I just tell, that starting planet is very small for hundreeds of players (or thousands in first months after release).

 

Resources is secondary problem, hard to speak about it, because need to know mechanic.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Shynras]

There's a huge safezone surroinding the arkship, so if you're scared about being killed, stay there. Players will not spawn with weapons, that will probably require quite some time to craft (skill training), and for that time, someone could have built ships already to leave the planet and spread the playerbase 

[Archonious]

There's a huge safezone surroinding the arkship, so if you're scared about being killed, stay there. Players will not spawn with weapons, that will probably require quite some time to craft (skill training), and for that time, someone could have built ships already to leave the planet and spread the playerbase

 

Now imagine, lots of players near ArkShip. They try to get closest resources. Few days, no resources in few kilometres range. Then think, few hundreds (only) players start to build in few km range from ArkShip). It already make the mess. Then add few trolls.

 

Let's have a look on numbers now. Kickstarter is nearly 3000 now, so many of them will play in beta (let take half). 1500 players will rush to play from the first days. 1500 players (and it is only now, nearly 4 weeks if KS to go) located on so small surface. As it was stated, no ships and anything else, so all of these 1500+ will be very close to each other. I hope you understand average mentality of player. It can make game first steps really not enjoyable (IMO).

 

*numbers will be higher, I'm 100% sure

 

Bigger size of planet + some teleports could be very helpful. Teleports created by Ark system drones or something. So player can travel to other side of planet as example. So it will reduce density of players much faster.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Kael]

I don't plan on being anywhere near the Ark Ship after the first few hours, so that's one less player to worry about

[Anaximander]

Hi,

 

Watched last video yesterday, but didn't have time to leave message/feedback.

 

Since we all know that all players will start on same planet and same place, this starting planet looks very small. This opinion is based on "Space Engineers" experience, where players start on same planet (ofc it depend of server). And it is very big risk to build base even for few days (played on planets with similar size). But the biggest difference, there are 10-20 players on SE servers, but you want allow hundreeds or thousands of players start close to each other.

Players will not be in safe at all, many of them will try to kill, steal or even troll (especially with 1 month trial). Bases of players will be everywhere, because size of the planet is small. Ofc there could be some Teritory Defence Units or any other defences.

Then we get another problem - resources. This is long term problem. Since everyone start at the same point, closest resources will gone very fast. Regrowing on maintenances? But what will happens with bases under the ground?

 

In my opinion, starting planet size need to be much bigger. Yes it won't solve everything, but it will reduce size of the problems.

 

And yes, I'm speaking about starting planet only. Any other planet could be as standard size on video, because population on them would be smaller.

 

 

Thanks,

Archonious

Hi, welcome to mathematics. Try to calculate the surface area of a sphere with 100 km radius.

 

 

See, that planet, has a much larger surface area than Great Britain combined. See how many people live in Great Britain. Then look at how many people may end up playing the game.

 

 

Boy, math are weird, no?

 

 

Planets are perfectly sized. There are people with actual knowledge of math out there that calculated that.

 

 

Not to mention, you clearly missed the point of other planets existing on the same star system at the beginning.

 

 

 

When your teacher told you that math will be useful at one point in your life, THIS is what they meant.

[Limyaael]

Hi, welcome to mathematics. Try to calculate the surface area of a sphere with 100 km radius.

 

 

See, that planet, has a much larger surface area than Great Britain combined. See how many people live in Great Britain. Then look at how many people may end up playing the game.

 

 

Not quite. This post is mostly pedantic.

 

With a 100 km radius, the surface area is 126,000 km², approximately half the area of the UK. Increase that by only 40km, and the surface area just nudges over (at 246,000 km²).

 

But regardless, the size of the planets is already enormous; the surface area is over 50,000 km². Assuming we can only dig 2km down, that's more than 10,000 km³ if you wanted to strip the entire surface.

 

edit: And for those wanting to build accurate Death Stars, for comparison: the first Death Star, at 140~160km in diameter, has an average volume of 17.7 of these planets' mineable surface. Now, accounting for all the empty space, you've still got to strip down a few planets for one. I guess one could make DU's Death Star DU-moon size instead.

[Anaximander]

Not quite. This post is mostly pedantic.

 

With a 100 km radius, the surface area is 126,000 km², approximately half the area of the UK. Increase that by only 40km, and the surface area just nudges over (at 246,000 km²).

 

But regardless, the size of the planets is already enormous; the surface area is over 50,000 km². Assuming we can only dig 2km down, that's more than 10,000 km³ if you wanted to strip the entire surface.

Good, somebody actually used math. :V Darn you, I wanted the OP to be the one to do the math. I had this whole example when he realised the numbers were off, where I would demonstrate the pop density in the UK and the population number in such an area to contrast with the amount of players the Devs have prepared the servers for according to their numbers (1,000,000 players estmated the servers' capacity is for).

 

But yes, the planets are enormous in any case. 

 

 

[Archonious]

With a 100 km radius, the surface area is 126,000 km², approximately half the area of the UK. Increase that by only 40km, and the surface area just nudges over (at 246,000 km²).

 

But regardless, the size of the planets is already enormous; the surface area is over 50,000 km². Assuming we can only dig 2km down, that's more than 10,000 km³ if you wanted to strip the entire surface.

Don't want waste time on trolls, so would tell you)

 

No matter what density in the UK or in the lowest population region of the world. No matter what is the size of the UK or any other country. The main difference between game and reality - people do not try to take your property. Law stops them. The game does not have any kind of Law to protect players from players. As soon any player in range of vision, he becomes a target, his property becomes a target for others.

 

If the game does not protect players but designed another way, it will push away LOTS of players in future. No any safety zones (which is actual to be in prison) will help that. This is about the game, not about silly comparisons.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Anaximander]

Don't want waste time on trolls, so would tell you)

 

No matter what density in the UK or in the lowest population region of the world. No matter what is the size of the UK or any other country. The main difference between game and reality - people do not try to take your property. Law stops them. The game does not have any kind of Law to protect players from players. As soon any player in range of vision, he becomes a target, his property becomes a target for others.

 

If the game does not protect players but designed another way, it will push away LOTS of players in future. No any safety zones (which is actual to be in prison) will help that. This is about the game, not about silly comparisons.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

Roll with a faction then. Problem solved. If you go for a lone-wolf thing, prepare to be fighting packs of wolves.

[Hotwingz]

Also keep in mind these planets are by game and mmo standards quite big.

 

If you go about the game with a little bit of smarts you could play for days without encountering anyone. At least in the first few months to a year of the game's launch.

 

At least thats how I understand it from available information.

[Cybrex]

Also keep in mind these planets are by game and mmo standards quite big.

 

If you go about the game with a little bit of smarts you could play for days without encountering anyone. At least in the first few months to a year of the game's launch.

 

At least thats how I understand it from available information.

 

I would think it would be the opposite in fact. Everyone is on the same planet, same solar system. No one has had a chance to spread out beyond that within the first month or two. 

[Hotwingz]

I would think it would be the opposite in fact. Everyone is on the same planet, same solar system. No one has had a chance to spread out beyond that within the first month or two.

Perhaps but I doubt it.

Maybe some of us are underestimating the size of things. Or I am overestimating.

Time will tell.

[RagenTerror]

There will have to be some physical limitations to the mining rate...maybe improved with skills and technology.  I actually think it should be linked somehow to energy or power output.  Moving items up in a gravitational potential (i.e digging) requires energy.  You shouldn't be able to move  50 tons of dirt with a flick of the hand without something behind this.   

[Archonious]

Perhaps but I doubt it.

Maybe some of us are underestimating the size of things. Or I am overestimating.

Time will tell.

I would repeat, playing Space Engineers on similar size planet (with spawn on different parts of planets) with ~20 players it takes 2-3 days (if you lucky enough). to get spotted and attacked (mainly digging under without any chance to defense). Now we have a game with hundreds or thousands of players starting on similar size planet and on the same position.

[Mncp86]

Run and dont look back

[Raiden]

I like the smaller planet size based on the fact that it will be a little easier to have social interactions and run into other players. On a realistic, Earth-sized planet, I don't think we would see each other very often.

[Blacksythe]

Based on the radius of the sphere it has a circumference  of about 94km. Based on the UK example thats about the distance from York to Manchester. Or about 1 hour 20 minutes drive at 70MPH as the crow flys. Walking thats about 20 hours to walk all the way around.

 

Lets look at this another way if they all stand 6.3 meters apart they should be able to get all the way around the planets circumference.

 

From a beta perspective that's acceptable.

 

Lets say 100x more play on the games release date. yea it will be a little cramped and the 20km safezone will feel pretty small but it is still gonna take an individual 2.5 hours (based on the ark being the center) to get out of the safe zone by walking.

 

Edit: By unlocking vehicles you could get around to the other side in likely less than 30 minutes depending on their top speed.

[Limyaael]

Based on the radius of the sphere it has a circumference  of about 94km. Based on the UK example thats about the distance from York to Manchester. Or about 1 hour 20 minutes drive at 70MPH as the crow flys. Walking thats about 20 hours to walk all the way around.

 

Lets look at this another way if they all stand 6.3 meters apart they should be able to get all the way around the planets circumference.

They're not that small. My calculations are working off the assumption that the orbital station we keep seeing is 8km (JC says it in one of the gameplay videos, I think the first one) and then a rough measurement of the diameter as 130km. They're not only 30km across.

 

I get circumference as ~410km. Sticking to only the backer numbers as of now, that's 137m apart (and if they all stand in a straight line around the equator).

 

I keep going back to this, but the planets are already huge. It will take some massive project like the Death Star or a Macross-style cityship to seriously impact the landscape of even the smaller worlds.