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Resource Respawning

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How will resources be replenished on a planet?

 

Given that some organisations are going to be very large with countless people joining and most possibly all having the same 'home planet', what happens if they just continuously mine, say if you are part of a mining organisation thats only task is to gather and sell materials?..

 

Will the planet eventually run out of resources and become a barren waste-land with nothing of value left, or will there be a mechanic for resources to respawn?

 

I know that SE has planets and a finite amount of resources (unless infinite asteroids) and that works well, but that isn't a MMO and you can always just make a new save if you are lacking any or find the layout of them inconvenient. But what happens when areas run out of resources in DU ?.. 

 

It's not just an option of starting the map again as it's an mmo, and the chances are that the areas closest to Alioth will become very drained very quickly as everyone spawns in the same location. Is it just the hope that there is enough resources to go around for the duration of the game or is there a plan for what happens?

 

I've read through plenty DevBlog's and posts yet haven't found anything concrete about this, and it's both interesting and worrying at the same time.

 

In years to come after the release will new people have to barter and trade for the resources to leave Alioth because they are all gone?

 

On the one hand you have to think about realism, you can't just 'replenish' resources in real life, you have what you have and thats it, no more, use it all and we're screwed. This gives a value to materials in depleted zones more so than in material lush zones, adding extra layers to the whole marketing trading system.

 

On the other hand you have the requirement for people to be able to build and gather when they want or if they are new, or if they have just lost their last ship or base building, if there is no resources and you've strangely decided to settle on a world because its empty of players how do you rebuild ?

 

I'm not even 100% sure how we are going to gather resources. Yes I know that the morpher sucks up ground and trees and such and turns it into usable voxels, but it's not been stated that that will be the way to gather resources like iron or copper ect, will they be like dirt and just be scoopable up like dirt (Think SE) or will they be chunks that you 'attack' and will eventually run out, which could be how things replenish also (Think WoW, but maybe different to the classic 'node').. 

 

There is a lot of things I'd like to know, and maybe I've just not got to that section of the forums/DevBlogs yet, but i'd like to know, if anyone has any information go ahead please..

 

Also, what about collecting water and liquids, in the lore it was said that Sohan took the yellow oil like material from the (swamp?) and was going to use it as a fuel source. Does this mean that we can gather liquids to be used as fuel, or coolants or hydraulics maybe?.. Would this allow us to create massive man made lakes or moats around our creations, waterfalls even maybe with some tweaking of elements to scoop and spit out.

 

Would there be anything to allow us to mix liquids together to make new liquids, and for that matter are we able to mix materials to make alloys (i remember reading something but unsure of the answer).. As both of them options give the player a kind of research ability and to be able to play around with different materials in different ways to create new materials.

 

I know there is a furnace or forge as they are in some images on the websites, but would we be able to forge alloys by combining different materials and quenching them in different liquids maybe?...

 

Hmm i'm going to stop there.. I kind of lost track of how much i wrote and could continue on for days asking questions that lead into other questions... 

 

Like the one i've just thought of as MAGNETS?.. will there be magnetism or electromagnetic devices to give out EMPs and the like ?

 

Right stopping now.... must stop typing... but.... can't.... help me...........

 

EDIT (Should have stopped typing) :

Found a nice link in the depths of the forums

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/43-a-take-on-gathering-interaction/

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As far as I know there's no solid information about how resources will be replenished. I could have sworn there was something out there from very early on about over exploiting a planet's resources and turning it into a barren wasteland, even to the point of destroying the atmosphere, but i can't find it now. In fact there's a thread about terraforming where Nyzaltar says it's not planned but maybe for a distant stretch goal, so it's quite possible i imagined it :)

 

From one perspective I think it would be best to have resources that deplete in one area, respawn in another, though how that would work I don't know. To avoid ruining explorers' efforts and maps, respawns would have to be in previously unvisited areas. Keeping resource locations dynamic in this way keeps the territory claiming game interesting and avoids turtling problems.

 

On the other hand, having some kind of materials cycle might be a more immersive way to do it. So raw resources are finite and can be depleted as in my last example, but where they respawn is determined by where they are used and destroyed. So the activities that take place on given sections of land or space have an effect on the voxels in that area. So for example, if there is a huge battle on the ground in a certain area, and tons and tons of vehicles/players/buildings/etc are destroyed there, the raw materials that those destroyed units are made of will seep into the ground and become minable. A certain amount of randomisation should be involved in this process - how deep underground and how far away from the actual site of the destruction the raw materials respawn. In this manner every voxel of raw materials would undergo a cycle - mined, processed (if less than 100% efficiency, the lost units respawn somewhere in the vicinity), used to build an element or construct (see previous about inefficiencies), element/construct destroyed and despawned, raw materials respawns somewhere in the vicinity.

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I'm on my phone so can't give a detailed response... bit your idea could also work for space battles and asteroids (if no scavengers get there first).. a way to reduce the load in the server having countless ships just floating about.... turn them into asteroids...

Obviously if they are 'npc' purpose built for scavenging then that's a different story...

 

There could be a bunch of different ways to get around both issues... but again, on phone so would even try to post anything big... I like your thinking though... +1 when I get to desktop

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I would really prefer that resources that are below ground actually mirror RL veins and lodes of ore as opposed to the little earth pimples that stick up and you wack on for 30 seconds.   Landmark had a very cool process of having to dig and follow ore veins, but they were limited to a couple of yards in any direction.  I would not mind seeing that kind of functionality on a grander scale.

 

I also would prefer that trees don't appear completely mature out of the ground after 15 minutes of being cut.  I realize it would probably be difficult to program, but I would prefer that trees grow.  The reason being  1) if you clear cut.....don't expect trees to come back unless to plant   2)  If you harvest your trees while young, you will not get large pieces of lumber.  3)  If you let the trees mature, you can get larger pieces of lumber--but you have to wait a much longer time to harvest--so actual management of the harvesting would be required so you always have trees to cut.

 

If you find an archaeological site where someone found the Singularity Reactor of Doom , then someone else coming along 15 minutes later should not find the same thing in the same place.  When a site is played out--it doesn't automagically repop--unless someone finds a hidden room or corridor or something.   

 

I mean if you want for Dual to be "real", then make it real with consequences for you actions (of using resources) and not having people just camping a spot forever to get what they want.

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As the universe grows with the players and the players progress like Novaquark mentioned, there could be included a kind of negative progression. 

 

If a big goup of players is exhausting a planet maybe there is no respawning of any resources so they have to move on and find another planet. I think this is nearly impossible to integrate into a MMO but it would be really cool.

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As the universe grows with the players and the players progress like Novaquark mentioned, there could be included a kind of negative progression. 

 

If a big goup of players is exhausting a planet maybe there is no respawning of any resources so they have to move on and find another planet. I think this is nearly impossible to integrate into a MMO but it would be really cool.

 

My feeling exactly.....if you suck a place dry and then don't have materials to live, so you have to build ships and move on, well--maybe you will have learned something.  Or, they may be groups that are like the antagonists in Independence Day--just moving from planet to planet like locusts.

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My feeling exactly.....if you suck a place dry and then don't have materials to live, so you have to build ships and move on, well--maybe you will have learned something.  Or, they may be groups that are like the antagonists in Independence Day--just moving from planet to planet like locusts.

 

I fear for the people who don't get anything and can't move on. Like Alioth.. What's the resources going to be like there after a few months and it's basically been picked clean of anything ?

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If you think about RL (planet Earth) We are slowly digging, chopping, draining, processing all of the planets resources. In X number of years we will have run out, but by then we should have found additional (off planet) resources, such as asteroids, other planets.

 

I am going to assume that people will continue to spawn (be born) on Earth, so it will be the corporations who bring the resources back to sell that will profit the most.

 

I dont see why it should be any different for a game.

 

I also see that once we have plundered our home planet we should have developed tech that will allow us to go and do the same somewhere else. There may be a free shuttle bus with Cryo chambers waiting for us at the spawn point, ready to wizz us away to one of the next starter planets. or you can just hang around on the wasteland that we have created.

 

Its a shame really when you look at this wonderful lump of rock we currently live on. I wonder what it will look like in a million years?

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If you think about RL (planet Earth) We are slowly digging, chopping, draining, processing all of the planets resources. In X number of years we will have run out, but by then we should have found additional (off planet) resources, such as asteroids, other planets.

 

I am going to assume that people will continue to spawn (be born) on Earth, so it will be the corporations who bring the resources back to sell that will profit the most.

 

I dont see why it should be any different for a game.

 

I also see that once we have plundered our home planet we should have developed tech that will allow us to go and do the same somewhere else. There may be a free shuttle bus with Cryo chambers waiting for us at the spawn point, ready to wizz us away to one of the next starter planets. or you can just hang around on the wasteland that we have created.

 

Its a shame really when you look at this wonderful lump of rock we currently live on. I wonder what it will look like in a million years?

 

At the rate we're going I think it will be like Cybertron or Curosaunt (however they are spelt), basically nothing but buildings all the way around the planet and several space elevators... 

 

OR destroyed by some religious crusade or nuclear war... I prefer the first one though.

 

...

 

I understand that there will always be them folks offering to sell the materials to the new people or offer the relocate them. But what if people want to go venture alone, or start the game off with a close group of friends and don't want to rely on anyone?.. If the beginning is desolate or resources, what kind of start would they be able to have?... it would put a reliance from the get go onto people already playing and could potentially put people off continuing to play in extreme cases.

 

Not that I'm personally going to have an issue with resources as I'll be in the front-lines of people playing the game on launch day, i'm just thinking of people starting months/years after.. all the new people that will help keep the game going and growing past the initial starters. What is their first few days going to be like ?

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Dont most games start you off with next to nothing?

 

Minecraft = chopping down trees with a block of mud

The Island = nothing but your hands

Eve = a rookie ship with 1 unit of tritanium

Runescape = a wooden sword

Elite Frontier (the one that came on 3 floppy discs) = a tiny ship and 500 credits

 

I love that vulnerability and sense of scale that you get when you realise you really are a small fish fighting to survive by whatever means.

I think the recent 'survival' type games have done an awesome job in preparing gamers for their first 'WTF and i supposed to do here/get there/kill that/make this' type of experiences.

 

Obviously there must be some safeguards to prevent rookies being stranded with no possible way of progressing through the first few hours or days, which is why the shuttle bus type thing must be free or there must at least be a system where they can get moving in the right direction.

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Dont most games start you off with next to nothing?

 

Minecraft = chopping down trees with a block of mud

The Island = nothing but your hands

Eve = a rookie ship with 1 unit of tritanium

Runescape = a wooden sword

Elite Frontier (the one that came on 3 floppy discs) = a tiny ship and 500 credits

 

I love that vulnerability and sense of scale that you get when you realise you really are a small fish fighting to survive by whatever means.

I think the recent 'survival' type games have done an awesome job in preparing gamers for their first 'WTF and i supposed to do here/get there/kill that/make this' type of experiences.

 

Obviously there must be some safeguards to prevent rookies being stranded with no possible way of progressing through the first few hours or days, which is why the shuttle bus type thing must be free or there must at least be a system where they can get moving in the right direction.

 

Most games start you off with nothing in a 'purpose-generated' world or 'specific spawning location'..

If not they usually have respawning mechanics to fill in the gaps.

 

I don't know about the others, but Minecraft is a purpose generated map or some multiplayer servers have a random teleportation mechanic that lets you respawn at a 'fresh' location and runescape almost everything respawns.

 

I don't mean for it to be 'here have everything without the effort' it should still be difficult, but offer some assistance/protection where is it needed or when it is needed as the first few months no-one will need any help getting started as everything will still be 'untouched'... :)

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I'm not for ressource respawn as it is completely illogial. The problem with newer players could be bypassed by introducing plants/fungi/animals that accumulate metals and other minerals that they can not digest in their body, thus new players could hunt the fauna/flora to aqcuire small amounts of ores etc. needed to get started before moving to a new continent/asteroid/planet/system for some serious mining buisness (if wanted).

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Starting out, my understanding is that you will not be thrown into the wastes with an obsidian knife and a thong.   You will have tools that will allow you the ability to forage, mine, whatever.  Plus, you will be in a protected layer around the ship.  My guess is that the beginning will be an exercise in social engineering.  People will do their own thing exploring, returning back to the ship, building with the resources collected in their forays.  At some point someone will decide to strike out on their own, or a group of like minded individuals will do the same--using the resources they have collected and things they have built to start their own place.    Not long after that another individual, or group of individuals, will decide to follow them to rob them of everything they own.   After that, people will decide that having people rob other people is a bad thing and will start a makeshift government of some sort with some type of constabulary.   In time, different groups will  have their own places, constabularies, which turn in to larger groups, and armies, with all the ensuing fun and games that follows from human nature  :)

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I'm not for ressource respawn as it is completely illogial. The problem with newer players could be bypassed by introducing plants/fungi/animals that accumulate metals and other minerals that they can not digest in their body, thus new players could hunt the fauna/flora to aqcuire small amounts of ores etc. needed to get started before moving to a new continent/asteroid/planet/system for some serious mining buisness (if wanted).

I like this, still sticks with the replenishing resources idea but adds in a bit of immersion and believability.. so it's not the idea of replenishing that your against, it's the method chosen to do it.

 

Plants and fauna could be an idea, what about a processing plant inside the arkship or something where you can put these plants or dirt/stone/trees and it 'recombobulates' them into useable materials?..

 

Could be included in lore with the idea that they didn't know what resources Alioth would have so they put in a method to generate resources (at a very low efficient level) from everything around by manipulating materials atomic makeup?...

 

100 dirt could give 10 iron or something, where's it's always in your best interest to mine the actual resource but there is a backup if you run out.

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I like this, still sticks with the replenishing resources idea but adds in a bit of immersion and believability.. so it's not the idea of replenishing that your against, it's the method chosen to do it.

 

Plants and fauna could be an idea, what about a processing plant inside the arkship or something where you can put these plants or dirt/stone/trees and it 'recombobulates' them into useable materials?..

 

well, you could say it so, i'm against natural ore clusters replenishing. The ore and minerals which you get from plants and animals would've been the microparticles taken from the ground for the plants or, for animals, from the minerals which were enriched in the plants/animals they eat.

 

So a biotope/factory or anything else which you could do on board of a ship would not work, except you get those mineral/ore rich earth from some planet and replenish it regulary but i think that would be to much effort, for the players as well as for the coders.

(just think about it, if u're able to create a factory for farming low yield "ore"-crops, then you're probably powerful/rich enough to just find and develop an own mining site)

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Very true.. what about changing it slightly so that the only available 'recombobulates' is on the initial arkship.. once you have enough resources to leave you'll never need it again and will not be close enough to use it again?

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I am for no respawning of ores on a planet. I recently made a post on ark spawning to address the concerns of shortages (and was linked here. Thanks Nora).

 

There could always be new airships found. And I thought I was mentioned. But there could be meteorite strikes near the ark (maybe the ark manipulates them through gravity or magnetism to land near by) these would be rich in ores like most asteroids and meteorites are. That would be a way to slowly keep a supply for boobs.

 

Beyond that planets and space are huge and can contain vast asteroid fields that contain immense amounts of resources. You just have to capture and harvest them.

 

And I hope it mimics the real world, they continue much higher % or these ore than digging in the earths crust as we do on earth. This would drive the veteran players off the planet and away from the easily accessible resources the noobs want and out to the resources they can collect at a faster rate.

 

And the number of asteroids scattered around a solar system could be nearly endless. And if slowly a few more are 'discovered' (aka added in) then it won't hurt immersion.

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At the moment, it is not planned to have resource respawning.

 

If for some reason, there are a real necessity to add some resources on a planet, meteorite rains could be an interesting alternative. 

Unless we encounter some unsolvable scenario where it could stuck players, we will avoid the "artificial resource respawn" at all cost. 

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

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I am for no respawning of ores on a planet. I recently made a post on ark spawning to address the concerns of shortages (and was linked here. Thanks Nora).

 

There could always be new airships found. And I thought I was mentioned. But there could be meteorite strikes near the ark (maybe the ark manipulates them through gravity or magnetism to land near by) these would be rich in ores like most asteroids and meteorites are. That would be a way to slowly keep a supply for boobs.

 

Beyond that planets and space are huge and can contain vast asteroid fields that contain immense amounts of resources. You just have to capture and harvest them.

 

And I hope it mimics the real world, they continue much higher % or these ore than digging in the earths crust as we do on earth. This would drive the veteran players off the planet and away from the easily accessible resources the noobs want and out to the resources they can collect at a faster rate.

 

And the number of asteroids scattered around a solar system could be nearly endless. And if slowly a few more are 'discovered' (aka added in) then it won't hurt immersion.

 

I get the feeling that you wrote that on your mobile with auto-correct on.... airships and boobs instead of arkships and noobs... :)

 

I guess commenting on how your idea of the asteroids being drawn into the planet by the arkship is a little redundant now that Nyz has commented on the matter.

 

But what about if the players want to drawn in a asteroid for more resources?.. or specific location resources?

 

 

At the moment, it is not planned to have resource respawning.

 

If for some reason, there are a real necessity to add some resources on a planet, meteorite rains could be an interesting alternative. 

Unless we encounter some unsolvable scenario where it could stuck players, we will avoid the "artificial resource respawn" at all cost. 

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

You spoiled my reply :(... I had a whole paragraph to comment and you took all the wind out my sails with that post... In a good way though, answered the question nice and direct :)

 

But as i stated above, what is the chances of players being able to manipulate the asteroids so that we can crash them into the planet and give ourselves either more resources an the place we want or crash them into enemies for damage... (I think this was mentioned somewhere else by me also, can't remember if you answered it or not)...

 

Or even have a base 'element' that has the ability to call down asteroids maybe?.. 

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Yes I am on my phone. I can't tell you how many times I corrected boobs to noobs after auto correct. No Google for once I didn't mean boobs

 

And I do hope players have the ability to move asteroids. If they are unanchored voxels it should follow the same mechanics as any other ship. Just ass thrust. But a player would want to crash one on a planet to help the noobs then, not just to wipe out a base

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Yes I am on my phone. I can't tell you how many times I corrected boobs to noobs after auto correct. No Google for once I didn't mean boobs

 

And I do hope players have the ability to move asteroids. If they are unanchored voxels it should follow the same mechanics as any other ship. Just ass thrust. But a player would want to crash one on a planet to help the noobs then, not just to wipe out a base

 

Got to think about the fact that they are not constructs though, so we don't know if we can attach the general thrusters and cockpit onto it yet, Might just act like a really tiny planet. 

 

If we were able to attach thrusters onto the asteroid, how would we claim it as ours so that we can fly it and everything like you would do to a construct ?

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Sorry I can't quote from my phone but @nora.

 

Do we really know how they will be made? Have the devs discussed the details of them with us yet? I don't think we even know they can be moved. We just hope they can.

Maybe you can build on them just not claim. Why can't it be like a planet. You can build on them and that portion becomes yours but not the rest.

If all else fails make a ship that can wrap around and grasp it then pilot the ship. When it's on the right trajectory release it. And boom, there goes the dinosaurs

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Sorry I can't quote from my phone but @nora.

 

Do we really know how they will be made? Have the devs discussed the details of them with us yet? I don't think we even know they can be moved. We just hope they can.

Maybe you can build on them just not claim. Why can't it be like a planet. You can build on them and that portion becomes yours but not the rest.

If all else fails make a ship that can wrap around and grasp it then pilot the ship. When it's on the right trajectory release it. And boom, there goes the dinosaurs

 

I'm assuming that due to the way blueprints have been described, that you build them and you own them then spawn them in the world ect, I was under the impression that you would have to claim the asteroid or that you wouldn't be able to do it at all because the asteroid is like trying to claim the blocks of a planet, you can claim them, but not move them.

 

Thinking about it now, you should be able to claim parts of a asteroid also, given that you can build in the world and not limited to the virtual world. Just, as you say, we don't know how the building is fully designed.

 

Can we claim land and move it, as in asteroids. Or will asteroids be victim to what planets are (supposedly) and be static in place unmoveable by thrusters and the like ?

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It has been said (somewhere) that you can build in the world or in VR. VR would give you a blueprint that you would then have to construct in the world.

 

And I till haven't seen much on asteroids to know if they are movable, just that they are planned. I hope they are like Stargate, planets are stationary but asteroids are movable.

 

It makes sense. Asteroids are small and will be more likely you can thrust them eneough to move them. Planets are massive. And while eventually some of us would have the resources and power to provide a measurable acceleration to them, it's an unnecessary mechanic to impliment.

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Unless we encounter some unsolvable scenario where it could stuck players, we will avoid the "artificial resource respawn" at all cost. 

 

That is a fine statement. Good, strong position to take. I'm with you.

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