Jump to content

Atmospheric Flight, all wrong!


 Share

Recommended Posts

I've been playing for 1 week. Claimed my Territory on Sanctury Moon, built a rather nice house and have done most of the tutorials.

The Hovercraft are nice but I'd give them up for a good 4 wheel monster truck...LOL

OK, I did the Atmospheric Flight Tutorial. Sucks real bad. I'm X-Airforce and have both a civilian pilots license and Helicopter License. Haven't used them in years.

I want to start by saying I really like this game. Needs abet better graphics and they need to do something about all this candy stripped rocks everywhere. LOL

 

OK, here is the problem, they got the hovercraft mechanic's right and I'm guessing that spacecraft work for the most part the same way. However, NO aircraft or Helicopter works anything like it does in this game. sorry, very poor design. trying to make atmospheric flight like a Hovercraft it's just plan bad!

First off, the controls should be the mouse and a little keyboard. the RMB should be used to move Forward, Left, Right, Up and Down.

The keyboard W to speed up and S slow down. G for landing gear.  be nice if it had a HUD Heads Up Display and a icon showing the landing gear up or down.

Atmospheric flight should be easy like a flying mount in World of Warcraft. basic and simple. Dual Universe put to much control on the Keyboard when most of it should be the mouse.  to be honest, even the Hovercraft should be mouse controlled.

I know Dual Universe want's to make a game like no other however, there are some things in all these games that are completely correct and need no improvement. another words, they got it right and Dual Universe to a big backstep on this.

 

Now I'm going to tell you what I think is good about this game and then what's not so far......

 

Love the building and crafting. best I've ever seen in any game.

Love the idea of an open universe.

Love that it's a futuristic  game. 

Love the Talent tree. (even if its a lot like Eve) 

 

OK, now the not so good and bad things.

 

The poor Atmospheric Flight. 

Need more talents on the talent tree!

The player driven economy.....Several problems I'm seeing. if everyone can make everything, what's the point of the market? You need trade skills ( say 12) and players need to be limited to only being able to master a few of them (Say 2). You need players that can make things others can't because they choose other trades so there'll be stuff to sell on the Market. Again, what's the point of the market? Supply and Demand.....If we can make everything each one of us then there's no demand and no economy!

So far no Missions (Quest) without this, its going to get boring.

Better Graphics. If I rated it from 1-10 and WOW got a 5, this would get a 7 at best.

Seriously, Chase mod a must. Its weird to not be out of body watching what your doing.

Let use take are helmets off and see are face!

 

 

I think that's enough for now. I'm hoping the developers read this.

 

I want to see this game be the next big thing on the internet.  Thanks all......

 

Italicus

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Italicus said:

OK, here is the problem, they got the hovercraft mechanic's right and I'm guessing that spacecraft work for the most part the same way. However, NO aircraft or Helicopter works anything like it does in this game. sorry, very poor design. trying to make atmospheric flight like a Hovercraft it's just plan bad!

First off, the controls should be the mouse and a little keyboard. the RMB should be used to move Forward, Left, Right, Up and Down.

The keyboard W to speed up and S slow down. G for landing gear.  be nice if it had a HUD Heads Up Display and a icon showing the landing gear up or down.

Pretty sure with default LUA you can just right click on seat -> advanced -> change control scheme or something like that to select mouse and keyboard. Otherwise, there's other player-made HUD's that use different control schemes that you want. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can choose from a direct mouse control, or a "virtual joystick" that allows for more fine-tuned control.

 

For very small ships i use the direct mouse control.  But for larger ships i like the virtual joystick.

 

You can also customize the key bindings in the options.  Different types of ships really require different methods of control, and everyone has their own preferences too.

 

As for the graphics, in my opinion they are absolutely amazing.  The graphics are so much better than any other game that has any kind of building, and the building in DU is so much better than any of those games anyway.  They can't just flip a switch and make the graphics better, it would mean making an entirely different game.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I love your enthusiasm, I can’t help but feel that your “I’m X AirForce therefore…”

stance followed by a complete lack of investigation into some of the finer aspects of the game before coming over as highly critical will likely not work in your favour here. 
 

the tutorials are under developed for sure although I’ve never done them. Instead I spent several months learning the game with the help of new friends I made in game, chatting on discord and watching YouTube. 
 

I sometimes feel that players these days expect to master stuff within a week or feel like giving up. 
 

I call it the iPhone effect.  In about the year 2000, I remember an iMode (internet capable) mobile phone I used came with a 350 page manual. 
 

I remember pouring over it for several weeks learning all the capabilities of my device. It was insanely powerful but built from chunks of disparate technology and thrown together. (Sound familiar?)
 

the iPhone nowadays, however, comes with a three “page” folding leaflet, if even that. That about the limit most people are unfortunately willing to invest to get started. 
 

but I digress, as usual. 

 

As mentioned.  The control method complaints you have are all addressable in game with a simple right click menu selection…

 

…and LUA…. Have you tried reprogramming the performance of your vehicles to match what you’d expect from a real plane? 

it’s doable to some extent -minus sonic barrier mechanics. 

 

investigate Arch HUD. You can down load it and install it on your controller and it will give you a much more aeroplane like experience. 


this game is actually far more advanced than its early 2010s period graphics would suggest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The controls in the game are fine IMO, you can opt to use mouse controls to fly, at least to some degree.

If by "quests" you meean PVE content like in most other MMO then  that will not happen, it's not a part of the core game design.

 

Better camera controls and 3rd person mode when on foot (you can hit INSERT when flying). Yees, absolutely that should happen but again, not in the core game design so I doubt it will, atr least not any time soon.

 

I'd agree that the flight model is not great still, even after many revisions of the system. Atmospheric flight is very unrealistic, ailerons would be expected to provide drag which in turn would allow you to roll, yet they are actually providing lift and act as wings. You can throw your construct in a roll but it will just keep going straight as there is no actual drag and so, no movement unless you also apply yaw. Flight is very much like driving in the sky in DU.

For a HUD, I'd suggest Archaegeo's Orbiital HUD for which support can be found on Discord

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually DU flight model is newtonian to a fault.  However Ailerons in DU are somwhat a misnomer.  Turning on aircraft is initiated by stalling corresponding wing (roll) as it should be. 

Aileron in real world is a type of airfoil that changes lift vector (but provides lift on its own).  In DU it works like a fixed lift surface with reduced stall angle profile. 

Now some here are mixing apples and oranges. 

Airfoil surface that stalls a wing by generating drag (but doesn't provide any lift)  is actually called Spoileron.  It is small distinction with a big difference.

 

If BUFF had ailerons on its wings instead of spoilerons if would have twisted off its wings hehe.

 

Atmospheric flight model here is somewhat simplistic, but in its basics true to form. Space flight models is however very much on "placeholder" side of things.

 

If you really want realistic and true to form flight, it's time to dust off your HOTAS gear and fire up DCS world.  I cannot say for the other planes, but the HOG simulation is as close to the real thing as it gets.  

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The default flight script has some hard coded yaw/roll/pitch couplings and to make it "easier" I guess, but for anyone experienced with actual flight behavior they are decremental. If you go into the script and lower/disable the coupling factor, it feels much more natural allowing barrel rolls, inverted flight etc. in the expected way.

 

And the wing stall behavior is weird to put is mildly. It is the number one reason why I still sometimes crash, trying to perform stall recovery the correct way instead of how the game wants it.

 

And still no support for analog joysticks...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, this isn't a simulation game, it's an MMORPG. 

 

If you want realistic flight mechanics, you should play a game in a genre that actually aims to deliver realism, like Microsoft Flight Simulator.

 

Realism isn't the goal, here, and I wouldn't be that surprised if NQ simplifies the flight mechanics even more. The first "M" stands for "massively", after all, and the masses don't have Jinxed's patience where they can spend months learning the game with friends and YouTube.

 

It sucks that people don't have more patience today, but that's the economic reality of game development in 2022 (and less patience / more instant gratification been a trend in society in general for over 100 years...) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Italicus said:

The player driven economy.....Several problems I'm seeing. if everyone can make everything, what's the point of the market? You need trade skills ( say 12) and players need to be limited to only being able to master a few of them (Say 2). You need players that can make things others can't because they choose other trades so there'll be stuff to sell on the Market. Again, what's the point of the market? Supply and Demand.....If we can make everything each one of us then there's no demand and no economy!

 

 

welcome to the game, its hard to get off the ground when you first start but its interesting once you pass those barriers

 

as for the section ive quoted, there is indeed supply and demand, as people make stuff, it gets blown up in PVP or something new comes out, people also want to build new things.

 

and the point clarifying people can make "everything", yes but its MUCH easier to specialize and that leaves a deficit that requires people to trade for stuff.

 

regardless, hope you stay around, this game needs new blood

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, thank you, I was worried some of you would get nasty about things but, I see your all pretty level headed.

 

Jinxed, I only put in the X-Airforce so people would understand I was it the Atmospheric Flight business from age 19-26. I was a Crew-chief on A-10 Warthogs and I understand how aircraft fly. 

 

Atmosph3rik, being new to this game, how do I change the controls to the mouse and set it to fly like a plane and not an out of control hovercraft?

I bought a N188 Mule MK2s. crashed it 4 times trying to get it back to my Territory. When I finally crashed in my territory and died, I went back to it, repaired it and tried to move it to my house. It was a very poor attempt on my part. I give it just 10% power and off it go like a bat out of hell. seems there's not much difference from 10% power to 100% power. I'd fly thru my territory. I'd hit full reverse yet it did nothing, so I'd turn around and hit full forward and it would then slow a then shoot me forward right back thru my territory the other way. know control at all. I don't even see how you can land like that. crash yes. I did this several times got pissed and just rammed it in the ground in my territory. Repaired it and just left it there. 

It was meant to be my work horse for Minning. 

 

Blazemonger, Yes I mean PvE. if there missions/quest are all PvP they will lose about 90% of potential players. in World of Warcrafts hayday they had 14 million players on 222 servers. only about 1 million want to play PvP the rest PvE.

 

I have a question? About my Hovercraft. How do I pocket it? 

If I go to another world I would want to take it with me.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Italicus said:

ok, thank you, I was worried some of you would get nasty about things but, I see your all pretty level headed.

 

Jinxed, I only put in the X-Airforce so people would understand I was it the Atmospheric Flight business from age 19-26. I was a Crew-chief on A-10 Warthogs and I understand how aircraft fly. 

 

Atmosph3rik, being new to this game, how do I change the controls to the mouse and set it to fly like a plane and not an out of control hovercraft?

I bought a N188 Mule MK2s. crashed it 4 times trying to get it back to my Territory. When I finally crashed in my territory and died, I went back to it, repaired it and tried to move it to my house. It was a very poor attempt on my part. I give it just 10% power and off it go like a bat out of hell. seems there's not much difference from 10% power to 100% power. I'd fly thru my territory. I'd hit full reverse yet it did nothing, so I'd turn around and hit full forward and it would then slow a then shoot me forward right back thru my territory the other way. know control at all. I don't even see how you can land like that. crash yes. I did this several times got pissed and just rammed it in the ground in my territory. Repaired it and just left it there. 

It was meant to be my work horse for Minning. 

 

Blazemonger, Yes I mean PvE. if there missions/quest are all PvP they will lose about 90% of potential players. in World of Warcrafts hayday they had 14 million players on 222 servers. only about 1 million want to play PvP the rest PvE.

 

I have a question? About my Hovercraft. How do I pocket it? 

If I go to another world I would want to take it with me.

 

 

 

 

 

mule is a terrible ship to begin with, the way it's put together very much defines how it handles. It very possible to make  ships that have plane like behavior all the way down to flaring on landing. I used to build ships like that, but most people in game prefer a different kind of experience ;)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wish I knew how to build an Aircraft that acted and responded like a real aircraft, not this stupid Flying Hovercraft garbage. You know we've had Hovercraft technology sense the 40s. There's a reason we have no Atmospheric Hovercraft, they don't work.  Hovercrafts are old Technology, very old. Why is it in a Futuristic game like Dual Universe. This isn't anything like the Speeders or Hovercraft from Star Wars. Those are gravity propelled. They don't slide when you turn at high speeds. These Hovercraft do! 

The reason a brought up World of Warcrafts Land and Flying mounts is because it's the industry standard. IT WORKS! this hovercraft garbage doesn't! 

There's and old saying, "Smarter not Harder"!

I'm telling you right now. If they don't change this Atmospheric Hovercraft Flight system there using, there going to loss a ton of players after this game launches!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/4/2022 at 11:43 AM, Italicus said:

Wish I knew how to build an Aircraft that acted and responded like a real aircraft, not this stupid Flying Hovercraft garbage. You know we've had Hovercraft technology sense the 40s. There's a reason we have no Atmospheric Hovercraft, they don't work.  Hovercrafts are old Technology, very old. Why is it in a Futuristic game like Dual Universe. This isn't anything like the Speeders or Hovercraft from Star Wars. Those are gravity propelled. They don't slide when you turn at high speeds. These Hovercraft do! 

The reason a brought up World of Warcrafts Land and Flying mounts is because it's the industry standard. IT WORKS! this hovercraft garbage doesn't! 

There's and old saying, "Smarter not Harder"!

I'm telling you right now. If they don't change this Atmospheric Hovercraft Flight system there using, there going to loss a ton of players after this game launches!

 


not entirely sure what IRL 40 year old hovercraft discussion has to do with this game, but…


If you’re not sure how to build something properly, the problem is not the game.  

 

What actually is this “stupid flying hovercraft garbage” you’re on about? Seriously, you sound frustrated about something that really literally ISNT rocket science. 

I don’t have years of military training IRL and have only played MSFS 2020 and DCS which are supposedly fairly realistic so can’t say I’m as experienced as you but I have built craft in this game that I can say are totally OP and unrealistic like something from a space anime. They can fly as though they’re on rails even at >1000kph and can yaw or roll a full 360 degrees in about two or so seconds without notable drift, far beyond any IRL craft would be capable of since it would have turning G forces of well over 20G and kill the pilot instantly. Certainly not “flying hovercraft garbage”


One thing I will say that is garbage, though, is the ships on sale at the UEE store or whatever it’s called: many are terrible.
 

I think most if not all were player built from an earlier stage in the game’s history. Many don’t really fly at all and need adjusting.
 

Much better to watch a few YouTube videos and build your own. It will take a few days to get up to speed but it will be much more rewarding. 

 

You are angrily claiming the game is bad but it’s more likely your design is making some noob tier mistakes like creating a craft without any vertically mounted stabilizers or airfoils or you ignored the advice in previous posts (right click on the pilot’s seat and set your craft as an “Default airborne vehicle” rather than hover vehicle and didn’t change the control method to mouse or joystick simulation by right clicking on the pilots chair and selecting control method.  

 

At least post a screenshot of your ship or short YouTube of the issue you’re having. 

 

then we might be able to help you better. 
 

if you don’t want to post your creation on here there are YouTube videos on building a working ship and a discord server with people honestly willing to help. 
 

In fact I’d go so far as to say the ship building and flight mechanics are about the only part of the game that is fleshed out properly and highly satisfying. 
 

some aspects of this game could arguably be called garbage without too many people disagreeing but the  Newtonian mechanics and very much simplified yet still slightly challenging aerodynamics are pretty decent IMO. 
 

Work smarter, not harder… let us help you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...