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ROADMAP UPDATE: PREPARE FOR WAR WITH THE COMING OF 0.29 "ATHENA" - discussion thread


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5 minutes ago, i2eilly said:

The hauling does make PvP affordable though, so we could use something that makes a good amount of quanta.  Maybe these alien cores could fill that part and then hauling wouldn't be so lucrative.

 

But I also agree, I want to play DU, not sit at my screen watching an SU counter go down!

 

Im not disagreeing, but what would also help is if smaller cores became legit viable in pvp.  If you dont have to have a M/L full of exotic weapons and rare engines to compete, then it can become more accessible for people.  

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Looking at the changes it is clear that they are more about how to improve PvP using existing features like cores and concepts that require minimal dev time, then features that would be optimal for the game and players.

 

So my worry is that what we have now with some minor tweaks and improvements like what they are doing to PvP, is what will be the considered the "final" game at release.

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7 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

...No one wants realism. We want a video game...

They are called simulation games, they do both at once.

 

I appreciate the need for occasionally tossing physics out the window for game-balance or practicality reasons, but that doesn't mean it wont annoy me when I see it happen so overtly.

 

2 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

I think the hauling needs to go anyway.  Just remove it, remove the big rewards.  Its terrible gameplay from the ground up...

 

3 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

...building better pvp can actually legit garner new customers... Game needs to move foward with things that can actually have a chance to get new customers.

As poor of a mechanic as it is, it does provide a significant portion of the game's population with the quanta to buy things from industry players, and incentivizes people to slow-boat through pvp space so that pirates have something to do. 

 

Pvp is good, it can bring people in. but this isn't a pvp only game. As much as I'd like to just slap some guns on all my stuff and go to town on things, this game's player-base would probably fall apart faster than we'd pick up new people if we were to just start removing features that are boring or in need of work instead of fixing or replacing them. 

 

I understand why speed is being played with, it is quicker and easier to fiddle with the maximum speed of different cores than it is to introduce the game mechanics they'd need to produce a more realistic-seeming balance between the core sizes. Its the same thing they've been trying to do since they started pvp with that "smaller cores can't be locked from as far as larger ones" that had a lot of people flying XS cubes armed with L missiles.

NQ wants people to fly a variety of different ships, but they keep trying to do this with quick and simple fixes to force it instead of introducing enough design complexity for it to occur in a more natural-seeming way. I appreciate the reasoning, I appreciate the balance (assuming it actually works), but that doesn't mean I wont be annoyed occasionally by the imposition rules that are blatant quick-fixes when the addition of mechanics they've previously promised could do the same thing in a less overt "hand of the devs" kind of way. (Hint: there's a reason a lot of other games use Heat/Capacitor/Energy/Power)

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6 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

So my worry is that what we have now with some minor tweaks and improvements like what they are doing to PvP, is what will be the considered the "final" game at release.

 

It's very clear NQ is moving towards what they will consider a "release ready" game. It will have most of what they committed to over time on paper but effectively only tick the box with a very, very thin pencil and be far from complete or deep as far as gameplay goes.

Everything is geared to making this happen at minimal cost and thus there is no room to devote serious time to actually laying groundwork for proper and versatile gameplay,. That has been the pattern pretty much from the moment they went to "beta" and frankly, it remains to be seen what will end up being released end of this year will actually be something worthy of having that label, even when NQ will just call it a "release".

Then they will sit back and pray they will be able to attract enough of a paying player base to allow them to try and actually make the game. The excuse will be "A MMO is never really finished, this is just the starting point" and the fanbois will just eat it up and parrot that ad infinitum.

NQ as a company may be "in no danger financially" but being able to exist does not mean you have the funding and ability to actually do what you should be doing when creating a game the scale of DU. It's pretty much a case of "the lights are on, but no one is home"

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we are adding stasis weapon

 

stasis weapon it is the greatest misfortune that can happen to this game

 

I am against introducing something like this

 

is a reference to the archaic Mechanics that we meet in EVE Online

 

such weapons contradict the rules of physics

 

the XS cores do not have enough energy to stop the mighty ship

 

even if I had some energy to spend on creating the field

this is the L core of this energy even more and This field can break

or not even notice that such a field affects him

it is like an ant that caught an elephant with a lasso

 

Do not kill this game with such senseless and extras

 

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6 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...stasis weapon it is the greatest misfortune that can happen to this game...

Given your previous comments on other topics involving things like wanting to be able to warp with aphelia packages, the desire to spontaneously delete your entire ship from the universe (on a thread about using such an option against pirates), or just generally how much you hate pirates, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are posting this less for physics reasons and more for fear of it being used on you by pirates.  While I understand such a point of view, I disagree with it.

 

Pirates will likely be faster than you after the speed changes even without this device, but unless NQ changes some stuff they will also be stuck using smaller guns than you. A stasis weapon would allow you to pin them down and ensure that when they start losing that fight, they wont be able to run away and will lose their ship.

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10 hours ago, Taelessael said:

Given your previous comments on other topics involvin.....

And taking into account your activity, I can conclude that you are an ordinary troll who does not contribute anything to this game.
You can only criticize and add nothing constructive to this Game.
You are just making a number of fasts to satisfy your ego.
  All my ideas give the game development opportunities. while your posts are mere trolling.

you have no idea for the game, the only idea you have is not constructive criticism.

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3 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...you are an ordinary troll...

I suppose I can be on occasion, but that does not make my points broadly invalid.

 

Also, insults and hostility don't make anyone think you are right. Generally it either gets people feeling defensive and so causes them to be less willing to even consider anything you say, or prevents useful discussion by driving people apart, all while simultaneously making your opponents look like the more reasonable party. If someone makes a mistake, point it out and explain why it is a mistake without just trying to be insulting. They may not agree with you, but they will be more likely to at least consider your point and improve.

 


Pvp players need more complexity in their game, it gives them a reason to fly more than just the stylized SNES cartridges and disjointed element-only lines we see them flying now. The addition of a stasis-weapon paired with the speed caps will help give them some of that complexity, while also potentially allowing haulers to have a size-advantage against any pirates they may need to try and fight off.

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47 minutes ago, Taelessael said:

Also, insults an

your reasoning is wrong.
No matter what ship the player flies, it can even be XXXL.
As a single player, he cannot operate such a ship. Weapons. Navigation, repair

are you talking about taking care of PVP players?

This is sheer banditry. This is sheer fun at the expense of others.

The Stasis Weapon does not exist, it is an archaic solution favoring bandouts.

 

 

I do not offend you, I think about you.

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5 hours ago, Vazqez said:

your reasoning is wrong.
No matter what ship the player flies, it can even be XXXL.
As a single player, he cannot operate such a ship. Weapons. Navigation...

I and several others fly from a gunnery-seat all the time, as do the pirates.

-Place and set up a gunnery seat linked to weapons and radar as normal,
-Place a "Remote Controller" element in sight of the seat

-Run a default auto-configuration on the remote controller for a flying construct,
-Sit in the gunnery seat,
-Hit insert once to close the gunnery window while maintaining 1st person view,
-Without getting out of the seat activate the remote controller.
You can now toggle between flying the construct and using the gunnery window for any size weapons with the insert key. 

 

5 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...repair...

CCS and locking players out of build mode in combat made combat-repairs exceptionally limited and just shy of pointless even for a multi-crew ship.

 

10 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...you are an ordinary troll who does not contribute anything to this game...

 

5 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...I do not offend you...

As a general rule most people will think you are trying to be offensive when you call them a troll who contributes nothing in response to them providing a genuine counter-point to what they perceive your issue to be. 

 

5 hours ago, Vazqez said:

...The Stasis Weapon does not exist, it is an archaic solution favoring bandouts...

I am all for realism being a thing to a point, such as everyone having the same top speed and finding a more natural way to balance the different core sizes, but I still recognize this is a game, it needs game logic somewhere. Real life pirates don't use grappling lines to slow a cargo-ship down before they attack it because there would be no point even if they had the mass to slow the cargo ship, they are already faster and don't need to worry about the cargo-ship getting away in a short sprint to some arbitrary safe zone. Real life cargo ships likewise don't shoot grapples at pirates to keep them from escaping because they typically don't carry weapons to begin with for legal reasons, so they want the pirates to leave. Both of these scenarios are not the case in DU, because DU is a game.

 

You don't want stasis weapons in the game because you don't want pirates to have anything at all, but they are just as allowed to play their way as you are yours. When paired with the other changes NQ is making, this weapon will give you an advantage over them to make sure they can't just run and save their ship if they start to lose a fight they picked with you. 

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On 3/1/2022 at 6:33 PM, Vazqez said:

we are adding stasis weapon

 

stasis weapon it is the greatest misfortune that can happen to this game

 

I am against introducing something like this

 

is a reference to the archaic Mechanics that we meet in EVE Online

 

such weapons contradict the rules of physics

 

the XS cores do not have enough energy to stop the mighty ship

 

even if I had some energy to spend on creating the field

this is the L core of this energy even more and This field can break

or not even notice that such a field affects him

it is like an ant that caught an elephant with a lasso

 

Do not kill this game with such senseless and extras

 

 

No but an XS ship shouldnt be one shotted by an L core.  Consider them the 'fighters' of the game.  Sadly currently they tend to be one shotted quite quickly.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/4/2022 at 6:52 AM, Honvik said:

 

No but an XS ship shouldnt be one shotted by an L core.  Consider them the 'fighters' of the game.  Sadly currently they tend to be one shotted quite quickly.

If your XS ship is getting one shot by a L core. Then you have 0 protection on it. And with that said even a L ship can get 1 shot by L ship with 0 protection on it. 

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