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Ship exploded for no "visibe" reason, suspect draw lag due to shipp spam at markets


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I was comming in to land, pathway was clear, then kaboom "your core was damaged" no more ship, no more inventory items, everything gone, and respawned.

I suspect its due to draw lag, of ships and constructs spamming the district and market landing pads.

 

Solution 1 = "elite docking" where ship gets drawn into a docking bay-hold.

Solution 2 = "interstella rift" type "safe ship storage"

                     Force players to either dock in elite style or ship store like I.R.

 

This is totally game breaking, a friend of mine was stuck inside anothere players ship other day due to this very issue, they finally managed to free themselves atfer 30+ mins.

Huge constructs spamming the market zones only ruins the game for players, its totally selfish to dump constructs everywhere in markets, and only in the end harms those doing it, unless they want the game entirly to them selves.

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we've been begging NQ to remove constructs at markets. It laggs and makes the game unplayable when you are trying to load 300 ships and some of them are full blown building size. @NQ-Naerais

a more simple solution? delete constructs after 2 days of not moving on the NQ tile. Fuck the adds/Billboards/Fuel Stations/Ore stations everyone's just trying to by pass the taxes at the markets. Better yet make the cores become abandoned, so people can recycle the constructs that get left behind. First come first serve. Players would clean up the markets for free at that point

 

or at the very least, make is so the character is private and non friendly constructs cant grab you with LUA on the way down causing you to crash. why other people need my characters info on a databank and keyboard that isnt mine? no idea but it spams me with script errors and databank errors on LUA I dont even own

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15 minutes ago, FuriousPuppy said:

we've been begging NQ to remove constructs at markets. It laggs and makes the game unplayable when you are trying to load 300 ships and some of them are full blown building size. @NQ-Naerais

a more simple solution? delete constructs after 2 days of not moving on the NQ tile. Fuck the adds/Billboards/Fuel Stations/Ore stations everyone's just trying to by pass the taxes at the markets. Better yet make the cores become abandoned, so people can recycle the constructs that get left behind. First come first serve. Players would clean up the markets for free at that point

 

or at the very least, make is so the character is private and non friendly constructs cant grab you with LUA on the way down causing you to crash. why other people need my characters info on a databank and keyboard that isnt mine? no idea but it spams me with script errors and databank errors on LUA I dont even own

 

 

I do like the idea of punishing people who leave crap at the markets on purpose.

 

But with a system like that, lets say you're a perfectly innocent player parking at the market to buy or sell, with no intention of clogging up the markets at all, but then you get disconnected, and then your kid is hungry, or your boss calls you on the phone, or whatever.  Then you go to bed, and work a full time job for the next two days.

 

Does that person deserve to have their ship deleted, or given away to other players?

 

It makes a lot more sense to stop people from doing a bad thing in the first place, rather then implementing a system that punishes them after the fact, and puts innocent players in the crossfire.

 

Abandoned constructs just need to be compacted in a way that it can't be abused/exploited.  Make it so they can't be redeployed unless you're within a short distance of where it was compacted in the first place.  Maybe charge a fee to redeploy them.

 

  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

 

I do like the idea of punishing people who leave crap at the markets on purpose.

 

But with a system like that, lets say you're a perfectly innocent player parking at the market to buy or sell, with no intention of clogging up the markets at all, but then you get disconnected, and then your kid is hungry, or your boss calls you on the phone, or whatever.  Then you go to bed, and work a full time job for the next two days.

 

Does that person deserve to have their ship deleted, or given away to other players?

 

It makes a lot more sense to stop people from doing a bad thing in the first place, rather then implementing a system that punishes them after the fact, and puts innocent players in the crossfire.

 

Abandoned constructs just need to be compacted in a way that it can't be abused/exploited.  Make it so they can't be redeployed unless you're within a short distance of where it was compacted in the first place.  Maybe charge a fee to redeploy them.

 

  

 

 

im trying to find a less hands on solution to the market problem. 2 days is plenty of time to get a ship moved or maneuvered tooled 2 feet to reset. 48 hours man... thats a long time to be too busy for 5 seconds

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3 minutes ago, NQ-Naerais said:

We know this is a sore spot, this is still something we're working on.  

What other kinds of 'punishment' would you want to see? 

The guys that use containers and VR pods to teleport across to all the markets to buy and control everything without actually flying to each market. Defeats the purpose when one guy can teleport across the system over and over buying all the T3 ore and then putting them back on the market at double the price. its genius use of mechanics but I thought thats why we dont have a universal market, to make players travel and such. The container stacks they use block the landing pads and even the elevators to buildings as well

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1 minute ago, FuriousPuppy said:

im trying to find a less hands on solution to the market problem. 2 days is plenty of time to get a ship moved or maneuvered tooled 2 feet to reset. 48 hours man... thats a long time to be too busy for 5 seconds

 

There are days where i don't even have time to turn on my PC.  I have a list of stuff to do that i won't even come close to finishing.  If i have to choose between losing my ship and cooking dinner, i'm going to cook dinner.  Why put me in that position if it's avoidable?

 

Removing constructs and giving them back to the player would be just as hands off.  As long as they can figure out a way to stop people from using it to transport stuff or abusing it in some other way.

 

If there's any way to avoid making the game less enjoyable to players with busy lives.  I think that's pretty important.

 

They pay the same subscription as people who play 12 hours a day.

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13 minutes ago, NQ-Naerais said:

We know this is a sore spot, this is still something we're working on.  

What other kinds of 'punishment' would you want to see? 

Simple, put in a timer on ALL ship that if they are parked outside an territory owned by that player (or org) then they unlock in 7 days and can be salvaged.  Removes spam and creates a really cool gameplay paths for players.

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Idk about punishment for this, which is why i suggested a docking bay, clamps the ship. and lowers it to an internal hidden docking bay, needless to say but here ill say it anyway lol. Mass limit on docking ability, if you exceed mass limit, auditory warning to clear the area timer, then pew pew pew pew KABOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

"You are in violation of flight regulations, you have 30 seconds to comply...You are in violation of flight regulations, you have 20 seconds to comply..You are in violation of flight regulations, you have 10 seconds to comply"..

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1 minute ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

There are days where i don't even have time to turn on my PC.  I have a list of stuff to do that i won't even come close to finishing.  If i have to choose between losing my ship and cooking dinner, i'm going to cook dinner.  Why put me in that position if it's avoidable?

 

Removing constructs and giving them back to the player would be just as hands off.  As long as they can figure out a way to stop people from using it to transport stuff or abusing it in some other way.

 

If there's any way to avoid making the game less enjoyable to players with busy lives.  I think that's pretty important.

 

They pay the same subscription as people who play 12 hours a day.

I agree, but there's no real down side to leaving your constructs there obstructing the game play for everyone else. your giant gold add cube gets compact? just VR over, redeploy it and continue. All we've done is made them have to log in to maintain the constructs

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1 minute ago, FuriousPuppy said:

I agree, but there's no real down side to leaving your constructs there obstructing the game play for everyone else. your giant gold add cube gets compact? just VR over, redeploy it and continue. All we've done is made them have to log in to maintain the constructs

you dont compact it, you OPEN it up, so anyone can take it, that would soon get them to sort their parking out

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Just now, Moosegun said:

you dont compact it, you OPEN it up, so anyone can take it, that would soon get them to sort their parking out

thats what im leaning towards. Im in favor of constructs left at markets losing ownership so other players can salvage it. you dont leave your ships on other players tiles why should the markets be any different? if you are one of the many players that parks a ship at a market for weeks at a time blocking people and causing huge lagg you deserve to lose your ship lol. 

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Just now, Atmosph3rik said:

 

There are days where i don't even have time to turn on my PC.  I have a list of stuff to do that i won't even come close to finishing.  If i have to choose between losing my ship and cooking dinner, i'm going to cook dinner.  Why put me in that position if it's avoidable?

 

Removing constructs and giving them back to the player would be just as hands off.  As long as they can figure out a way to stop people from using it to transport stuff or abusing it in some other way.

 

If there's any way to avoid making the game less enjoyable to players with busy lives.  I think that's pretty important.

 

They pay the same subscription as people who play 12 hours a day.


100% agree -- you shouldn't punish people for being idle (in a sub based game especially where NQ makes less money the more people log in).

 

They'll just cancel subs and not come back if they log in to find their ship permanently gone.

 

huge part of sub-based MMOs is not just retention but returning users that come back after cancelling their subs for a few months -- this salvage idea creates a massive disincentive to play the game if again if you cancel. 

 

I don't feel like salvaging ships that are left in markets is a "gameplay mechanic" at all, there's no game or skill to it -- it's just random luck based off RL factors that have nothing to do with the game. 

 

The salvage concept makes no real sense in terms of the design, balance, or basic concepts of fairness. 

 

There have been sooooo many discussions on this topic and so many simple ideas that don't involve permanent destruction.

 

Among the most basic concepts of game design is the idea that you don't make players "stuck" and that's what this could do, especially if/when daily login rewards go away. 

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8 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:


100% agree -- you shouldn't punish people for being idle (in a sub based game especially where NQ makes less money the more people log in).

 

They'll just cancel subs and not come back if they log in to find their ship permanently gone.

 

huge part of sub-based MMOs is not just retention but returning users that come back after cancelling their subs for a few months -- this salvage idea creates a massive disincentive to play the game if again if you cancel. 

 

I don't feel like salvaging ships that are left in markets is a "gameplay mechanic" at all, there's no game or skill to it -- it's just random luck based off RL factors that have nothing to do with the game. 

 

The salvage concept makes no real sense in terms of the design, balance, or basic concepts of fairness. 

 

There have been sooooo many discussions on this topic and so many simple ideas that don't involve permanent destruction.

 

Among the most basic concepts of game design is the idea that you don't make players "stuck" and that's what this could do, especially if/when daily login rewards go away. 

Been playing this game since alpha, I have never once left a construct somewhere that I didnt own, let alone for an extended period of time.  There is never any justifiable reason to do it.  Tiles are super easy to get and super cheap.  Also salvaging IS a gameplay path, it wouldnt just be at the districts but all the abandoned constructs people have left lying around.  In early beta, when you could take control of crashed ship via salvaging loads of people did it.  Until people complained that they were losing stuff and NQ got rid of it.

 

This isnt punishing the idle, is it only punishes players who abandon their stuff everywhere.

And it isnt 'permanent destruction' it is recycling.

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1 minute ago, Moosegun said:

Been playing this game since alpha, I have never once left a construct somewhere that I didnt own, let alone for an extended period of time.  There is never any justifiable reason to do it.  Tiles are super easy to get and super cheap.  Also salvaging IS a gameplay path, it would just be at the districts but all the abadonded constructs people have left lying around.  In early beta, when you could take control of crashed ship via salvaging loads of people did it.  Until people complained that they were losing stuff and NQ got rid of it.

And it isnt 'permanent destruction' it is recycling.

 

Good for you? There's plenty of players that don't find tiles so easy to get or so cheap -- especially new players or people that haven't been playing since alpha.

 

There's plenty of players that log off at markets because they don't want to spend the time flying back to their territory.

 

"Oh but that's their fault for not investing the time"...okay? Sure? But it's still bad game design. 

 

If you're making a sub-based MMO with the idea that people need to play all the time and that they can't easily come back after 6-12 months of not playing...then you should shut it down because you'll only ever have a small, hardcore niche. You're sending a clear message: "if you stop playing don't bother coming back", and that's just not marketable or reasonable to expect for the average player. 

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1 minute ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

Good for you? There's plenty of players that don't find tiles so easy to get or so cheap -- especially new players or people that haven't been playing since alpha.

 

There's plenty of players that log off at markets because they don't want to spend the time flying back to their territory.

 

"Oh but that's their fault for not investing the time"...okay? Sure? But it's still bad game design. 

 

If you're making a sub-based MMO with the idea that people need to play all the time and that they can't easily come back after 6-12 months of not playing...then you should shut it down because you'll only ever have a small, hardcore niche. You're sending a clear message: "if you stop playing don't bother coming back", and that's just not marketable or reasonable to expect for the average player. 

thats a huge takeaway from leaving ships at markets. What about the players who do play all the time and struggle to complete basic tasks at the markets due to the clutter? what if when missions come out, markets are the destination? you have no ideas on the problem, more of a dont bother me attitude. Markets are laggy, ships are abandoned, addboards and dispencers everywehere and your logic is "leave it there" I disagree

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6 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

This isnt punishing the idle, is it only punishes players who abandon their stuff everywhere.

 

What are we defining as "abandoned" though?

 

I think this is two separate issues.  Constructs need to be removed from markets after a short period of time.  Not because they are abandoned but because they are breaking the game.

 

I also think we need a system to handle "abandoned" constructs too.

 

But i don't think a construct should be considered abandoned until the player's subscription is canceled.

 

 

21 minutes ago, FuriousPuppy said:

just VR over, redeploy it and continue. All we've done is made them have to log in to maintain the constructs

 

What if there was a fee to redeploy?  It could increase each time you have a ship impounded.  Or a cooldown timer before you can redeploy? Or both.

 

A few days is just way too short a time to consider a construct abandoned.  And a month is way too long to leave them at the markets.

 

We need separate solutions to these two problems.

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1 minute ago, Atmosph3rik said:

A few days is just way too short a time to consider a construct abandoned.  And a month is way too long to leave them at the markets.

 

We need separate solutions to these two problems.

Im open to whatever timer in place you think is appropriate. At the end of the day markets need to be cleaned up and I dont think taxing the more wealthy players will really put a dent in the wallets to continue clutter. The great thing about constructs losing ownership is players can randomly maintain the markets at all times. If you cant be bothered to fly 20 minutes to go back home you need to plan your days out better. We can't cater to everyone but now that we have HUGE landing pads, were going to have HUGE problems if the population picks up and people flood the markets again. Need a form of negative results to deter lazy players leaving GIANT SHIPS WITH 60 ENGINES BLOCKING EVERYTHING!!!

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6 minutes ago, FuriousPuppy said:

thats a huge takeaway from leaving ships at markets. What about the players who do play all the time and struggle to complete basic tasks at the markets due to the clutter? what if when missions come out, markets are the destination? you have no ideas on the problem, more of a dont bother me attitude. Markets are laggy, ships are abandoned, addboards and dispencers everywehere and your logic is "leave it there" I disagree

 

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that letting people salvage ships is a bad idea, not that they should linger forever. And i've already discussed my ideas in past posts because this topic comes back every month. 

 

There's plenty of other options -- among the most basic is simply de-spawning old constructs after and letting players re-spawn them from a terminal or hanger. 

 

Easy. Fair. Works for people that let their subs lapse for months then come back; sub-based games need people to be able to come back after their subs lapse without losing all their shit. 

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14 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

Good for you? There's plenty of players that don't find tiles so easy to get or so cheap -- especially new players or people that haven't been playing since alpha.

 

There's plenty of players that log off at markets because they don't want to spend the time flying back to their territory.

 

"Oh but that's their fault for not investing the time"...okay? Sure? But it's still bad game design. 

 

If you're making a sub-based MMO with the idea that people need to play all the time and that they can't easily come back after 6-12 months of not playing...then you should shut it down because you'll only ever have a small, hardcore niche. You're sending a clear message: "if you stop playing don't bother coming back", and that's just not marketable or reasonable to expect for the average player. 

I think you might be exaggerating a bit here.  Getting a single tile on a planet is very cheap. I also have no issue with people logging off at a market because they do not want to fly home.  Just if you are going to leave them there you know you need to get on within xxx days to move it.

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2 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that letting people salvage ships is a bad idea, not that they should linger forever. And i've already discussed my ideas in past posts because this topic comes back every month. 

 

There's plenty of other options -- among the most basic is simply de-spawning old constructs after and letting players re-spawn them from a terminal or hanger. 

 

Easy. Fair. Works for people that let their subs lapse for months then come back; sub-based games need people to be able to come back after their subs lapse without losing all their shit. 

im all in favor of that if it was easy to do, NQ at the end of the day gets to decide and honestly I think "auto abandon construct" is easier to code, than "auto compactify" of player constructs

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3 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that letting people salvage ships is a bad idea, not that they should linger forever. And i've already discussed my ideas in past posts because this topic comes back every month. 

 

There's plenty of other options -- among the most basic is simply de-spawning old constructs after and letting players re-spawn them from a terminal or hanger. 

 

Easy. Fair. Works for people that let their subs lapse for months then come back; sub-based games need people to be able to come back after their subs lapse without losing all their shit. 

Noone loses anything if they put it away, subbed or unsubbed. Also there is very chance that with territory pvp, unsubbed people could be coming back to nothing anyway.  
 

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It kind of seems like you guys just want to steal peoples stuff.

 

When there's no one left playing the game except people without jobs, how much money do you think NQ is going to bring in?

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6 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Noone loses anything if they put it away, subbed or unsubbed. Also there is very chance that with territory pvp, unsubbed people could be coming back to nothing anyway.  
 


That's a good point. NQ definitely needs to think about that as they develop territory war. Can you imagine spending hundreds of hours on a base, letting sub lapse...then coming back to nothing? You wouldn't keep your sub very long I expect. One of the fun aspects of a sub-based MMO. 

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