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Proxie

NQ you need to fix PVP and ASAP!

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16 hours ago, Proxie said:

First let me say I support PVP completely. But its gotta change and asap in DU. Right now PVP in DU is nothing more than griefing other players, for the sake of griefing. I've watched a few streams of people get destroyed today in PVP. In all 12 encounters I saw, they were all dead before they knew what was happening. This is not fun. Fun PVP is a fight, where ships and skills are tested against one another. Someone wins and someone loses. The PVP moments I've seen and experienced in the game are not that at all. In all cases I've seen, PVP has been utterly one-sided and over in moments. There was so little opportunity for response, that I wouldn't even classify it as PVP at all.

 

There's no way in DU to understand or become experienced in ship-to-ship combat other than PVP. The people who got into PVP before you are so much better, with ships so much more focused on your death, that there's no real ramp up. You just die, and then get set back days or weeks. And the only way to improve is to do it again. That's if it's consensual. You might just want to progress in your projects, and need copper. Too bad. You're now engaged in PVP. Oh - you didn't dedicate yourself to learning PVP? Reset 2 weeks. Reset 10 days.

Nothing is engaging about this. It's so one-sided and bereft of interaction, it might as well be a bug or a glitch destroying your ship.

This has to change. If it stays like this, DU will be catering to an extreme niche of people who aren't nominally there to make use of all the creative tools - but instead will min/max ships designed for the sole purpose of murdering other people as efficiently as possible. That's fun only for those people. There aren't enough of those people to support the success of an MMO. No one watches two weeks of work put into a ship build disappear in an instant and thinks, "this is so much fun!"

 

Things that absolutely must be changed for the game to be successful.

  1. Weapon ranges needs to be reduced to no more than 2.5k. This forces all parties involved to have to actually fight each other in a proper battle.
  2. Weapon damage needs to be reduced by 75%. Right now it frankly doesn't matter what material you build your ship out of, because weapon damage is too high, and chews through everything. It makes building anything other than a layered box ship pointless.
  3. Space safe zone should be permanent and never removed for any reason. This will allow trade and civilization to grow. Players should not be forced into PVP if that's not what they are interested in.
  4. Planets in space safe zone should never have PVP either. For the same reasons as above. Players should not be forced into PVP if that's not what they are interested in. Having a single safe moon, is frankly a stupid idea. Lets put everyone to a moon, force them to deal with lag, over population, etc. Nope...people will legit just leave the game.
  5. Ship and Base shields need to be a thing. So players have proper defense.
  6. Ships moving over 10,000 should not be able to fire weapons.


Unless some serious changes are made to PVP in DU. The game will not be successful. As the CEO of NQ has stated on many streams this is a civilization game, not a PVP game. The Devs need to start making players fully aware of this. Unregulated PVP will completely ruin the game we all want.

 

Just look at what's happening now, players building walls at warp points to grief players using warp. This also needs to be fixed, and the players suspended for 30 days for doing it. NQ you need to draw a line in the sand when it comes to these issues now and set the place. 

Way to kneejerk, going to dislocate something going off on one like that.  Also great that you have managed to come up with such a comprehensive overview of the problem from  your extensive experience on the subject...... oh no, you havent you have watched a bloody video.  Amazing how many people become experts on things from watching a single video,  generally find out they havent got a bloody clue what they are talking about.  To be honest I cant even be bothered to explain all over again what is wrong with this drivel. 

 

Do you always pretend to be an expert in something you have zero first hand experience and suggest wide spread fundamental changes?  Or just in PC games

 

Currently this game is 100% safe, you can get EVERYTHING from within safe zones, and then get a warp drive which means you can get EVERYWHERE ELSE without leaving safe zones.  PvP at the moment is nothing more than a place holder and 100% concensual (you actually have ZERO reason to enter pvp zone, EVER).   Also, only about 0.01% of the players base has ever been shot at.

 

Infact going to rank this as the worst post since BETA launch, gg.

(just so you know, 10 years in Eve is about par around here)

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Reading through it looks like people have been going in to the PVP zone completely unprepared and have paid the price.

 

Currently the safe zone is huge and no PVP is happening within 500km of the planets. However this will change when the PVP content updates roll out. If you and your teams want to venture out to the unsafe territories and take on the risks to gain the rewards of resources found there. You must ensure you are prepared, otherwise the risk of you being pirate food will increase dramatically.

 

PVP needs more content updating, gunning needs to be more immersive but does it need to be nerfed because a few people got their 1 layer thick aluminium walls broken down? No...

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On 9/16/2020 at 10:23 PM, HairballHacker said:

Please don't do to DU what FDev did to ED. Please do not cater to the carebears.

Perfect example of those who enjoy nothing more than the constant and complete destruction of others for the lawls, funzies, whatever you want to call it. You are the type of player who gets their kicks wrecking anything and everything "because of the game let me " mentality. 

 

The OP made very strong, compelling statements and the reasons behind it while this response of "carebears" is nothing more than a label given by a small percentage of the population who thrive on chaos and taking advantage of a broken PvP system that benefits the griefers.  It has already become reality in-game as many players have simply stopped playing and asked for refunds because of these legit issues. 

 

Just because the devs couldn't for see every single thing that hard core PvP players would do doesn't mean it's OK to exploit game mechanics or ensure griefing is done with such callous regard to anyone else, as more and more streams and videos get posted daily with how bad things have already become. 

 

Hopefully NQ will be able to find a good balance and make corrections sooner rather than later to fix this PvP mess we are currently in. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Moosegun said:

Way to kneejerk, going to dislocate something going off on one like that.  Also great that you have managed to come up with such a comprehensive overview of the problem from  your extensive experience on the subject...... oh no, you havent you have watched a bloody video.  Amazing how many people become experts on things from watching a single video,  generally find out they havent got a bloody clue what they are talking about.  To be honest I cant even be bothered to explain all over again what is wrong with this drivel. 

 

Do you always pretend to be an expert in something you have zero first hand experience and suggest wide spread fundamental changes?  Or just in PC games

 

Currently this game is 100% safe, you can get EVERYTHING from within safe zones, and then get a warp drive which means you can get EVERYWHERE ELSE without leaving safe zones.  PvP at the moment is nothing more than a place holder and 100% concensual (you actually have ZERO reason to enter pvp zone, EVER).   Also, only about 0.01% of the players base has ever been shot at.

 

Infact going to rank this as the worst post since BETA launch, gg.

(just so you know, 10 years in Eve is about par around here)

Hahaha you are right this is one of the worst posts I've seen here lately, and that's saying something.  People like this are why devs dont even bother reading their own forums. 

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1 minute ago, Palad1n said:

Perfect example of those who enjoy nothing more than the constant and complete destruction of others for the lawls, funzies, whatever you want to call it. You are the type of player who gets their kicks wrecking anything and everything "because of the game let me " mentality. 

 

The OP made very strong, compelling statements and the reasons behind it while this response of "carebears" is nothing more than some perceived stigma by a very small percentage of the population who thrive on chaos and taking advantage of a broken PvP system that benefits the griefers.  It has already become reality in-game as many players have simply stopped playing and asked for refunds because of these legit issues. 

 

Just because the devs couldn't for see every single thing that hard core PvP players would do doesn't mean it's OK to exploit game mechanics or ensure griefing is done with such callous regard to anyone else, as more and more streams and videos get posted daily with how bad things have already become. 

 

Hopefully NQ will be able to find a good balance and make corrections sooner rather than later to fix this PvP mess we are currently in. 

 

 

Another idea joins in the discussion. 

 

9ca.jpg

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Another idea joins in the discussion. 

 

The typical response with obligated pic from those who simply thrive on encouraging broken game mechanics.

 

/facepalm 

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1 minute ago, Palad1n said:

The typical response with obligated pic from those who simply thrive on encouraging broken game mechanics.

 

/facepalm 

No it just gets tiring when we have explained this, even over multiple posts. I haven't even pvp'd in beta yet.  But I'm not mentally stunted and know how things work, so I don't make stupid posts like yours.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

No it just gets tiring when we have explained this, even over multiple posts. I haven't even pvp'd in beta yet.  But I'm not mentally stunted and know how things work, so I don't make stupid posts like yours.

Sorry you are taking the OP's well thought out discussion on a broken PvP system so personally.

 

Best of luck with your experience in-game! 

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Just now, Palad1n said:

Sorry you are taking the OP's well thought out discussion on a broken PvP system so personally.

 

Best of luck with your experience in-game! 

I dont take it personally.  I've got over 10 years in eve, I'll be better off than you that I know for sure.  Part of being an adult is to not cry when you lose a game that is competitive.  

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11 minutes ago, Palad1n said:

Sorry you are taking the OP's well thought out discussion on a broken PvP system so personally.

 

Best of luck with your experience in-game! 

I am in a generous mood though, so I'll take this time to educate you. The only thing we care about is that we can shoot anyone any time outside the safe zone. And that the safe zone remains small and void of high tier ore. Rough estimate would be 10% of whole playable universe.  That's it. Every thing else is about balance.   But one thing you dont do when balancing is knee jerk over correct like OP is saying.  Its terrible for any game. You go a little at a time. If your balancing or nerfing of bad mechanics wasn't enough,  you go a little more. Collecting data each time, until you feel it's close to right. Also, its 3 weeks into beta, with 5% of pvp implemented (straight from devs mouth) so with so much to come.  We have to wait and see. And there is no reason anyone has to go to pvp zone now. You can literally go to any planet without pvp at all. Hope that helps you.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

And there is no reason anyone has to go to safe zone now. You can literally go to any planet without pvp at all. Hope that helps you.

 

https://discordapp.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/756120371677364235

 

 

Yes, time will tell how the PvP system will work itself out. Something I look forward to as while I do enjoy healthy PvP, I do not enjoy or promote broken systems in which most fights are rather 1-sided by the current limitations and with no defenses / counter to them (as the OP pointed out).  I have actually spoken with several players who have experienced this and in every case so far, they didn't even know what was hitting them. 

 

Perhaps we will see limits placed with the inclusion of the power system. Many good points the OP brings up, yet folks like yourself only put others down, or make disparaging remarks to anyone who brings up legit issues that are currently happening instead of providing quality feedback and adding to the discussion. I would think someone with 10+ years of EVE experience would jump at such an opportunity, but I could be wrong. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Palad1n said:

Many good points the OP brings up, yet folks like yourself only put others down, or make disparaging remarks to anyone who brings up legit issues that are currently happening instead of providing quality feedback and adding to the discussion. I would think someone with 10+ years of EVE experience would jump at such an opportunity, but I could be wrong. 

The is a very simple reason why I 'put this poster down' because his post is based on ZERO first hand experience, only anecdotal evidence based on watching a video.  It suggests that unless there are changes to the current PvP system the game will fail.    PvP in the game currently is a placeholder, it is 100% consensual, as you do not need to take a single STEP into pvp space to access EVERY ore / planet in the game.  Yes of course there are massive issues with PvP, it is only partially implemented, which is why it only takes place in a relatively exclusive area of the game which should ONLY be used by players prepared for pvp. 

NQ have made it very clear that PvP is work in progress, hence why it is so limited, I have no doubt that NQ will not roll out any expansion to PvP zone until they are sure that the balance is better, they have also made it VERY clear that they want PvP to balance in favour of the defender, how they do that remains to be seen.

 

Statements like - "Unless some serious changes are made to PVP in DU. The game will not be successful. As the CEO of NQ has stated on many streams this is a civilization game, not a PVP game. The Devs need to start making players fully aware of this. Unregulated PVP will completely ruin the game we all want." - This is a MASSIVE over reaction, the OP has no idea where NQ are going with PvP and to suggest the current PvP is anything other than a minor sideshow that effect very few people is a joke.

By all means make suggestions to improve PvP but please dont act like it is ruining the game, when only about 1% of players have even been shot at yet.............. kneejerking at its best

 

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26 minutes ago, Palad1n said:

 

https://discordapp.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/756120371677364235

 

 

Yes, time will tell how the PvP system will work itself out. Something I look forward to as while I do enjoy healthy PvP, I do not enjoy or promote broken systems in which most fights are rather 1-sided by the current limitations and with no defenses / counter to them (as the OP pointed out).  I have actually spoken with several players who have experienced this and in every case so far, they didn't even know what was hitting them. 

 

Perhaps we will see limits placed with the inclusion of the power system. Many good points the OP brings up, yet folks like yourself only put others down, or make disparaging remarks to anyone who brings up legit issues that are currently happening instead of providing quality feedback and adding to the discussion. I would think someone with 10+ years of EVE experience would jump at such an opportunity, but I could be wrong. 

 

 

OPs post is still stupid. Is posting things as matter of fact when he knows jack shit. Like 75% reduction in damage must happen. Or not shooting if going over 10k is a must. He is making demands like a spoiled kid to a parent, not providing meaningful discussion. 

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1 hour ago, Palad1n said:

Perfect example of those who enjoy nothing more than the constant and complete destruction of others for the lawls, funzies, whatever you want to call it. You are the type of player who gets their kicks wrecking anything and everything "because of the game let me " mentality. 

 

The OP made very strong, compelling statements and the reasons behind it while this response of "carebears" is nothing more than a label given by a small percentage of the population who thrive on chaos and taking advantage of a broken PvP system that benefits the griefers.  It has already become reality in-game as many players have simply stopped playing and asked for refunds because of these legit issues. 

 

Just because the devs couldn't for see every single thing that hard core PvP players would do doesn't mean it's OK to exploit game mechanics or ensure griefing is done with such callous regard to anyone else, as more and more streams and videos get posted daily with how bad things have already become. 

 

Hopefully NQ will be able to find a good balance and make corrections sooner rather than later to fix this PvP mess we are currently in. 

 

 

"No, no  sweeping generalizations are FINE when I do it."

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Also LOVING the fact that everyone is blaming this calious pirating on Borg cubes being OP when i know for a FACT that 80% of the people killed by one main org DIDNT EVEN HAVE A RADAR!!!!!  Most of these players would have died if they got attacked by someone on a hagboard with an XS rail strapped to it. 

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At first I wanted to have fun in ship to ship combat some day in this game.  Build my own ship, join my guildmates and fight other guilds for "whatever" reasons.  I realize that is simply not going to happen in this game.

 

Then my friend and I wanted a nice medium core cargo ship to make hauling to and from outside planets possible, something to get 2 or 3 large containers of ore back to home.  So we built a S core cargo ship.  It took a friggin week.  A week of mining, building, voxelmancy training, trial and error.  A friggin week just to get a basic interplanetary 2 medium container carrying, S core sized cargo ship going.  I'm quite proud of it, but we are ready to hit planets in the outskirts for ore.  Then the reports come in from the guild mates.  What we were afraid of hearing.  Gankers.  You fly into certain areas (wont mention which ones) and you get killed before you even notice anything.  One shotted in some cases.  Fly into the wrong neighborhood and somebody takes you out before you can even blink or react. 

So thats pvp in this game?  You people really call that pvp?  With a straight face? Really?

I just spent a ********** week on that ship.  I'm going to have to fly out to pvp zones and now i'm going to get 1 shotted by a xs core murder cube and all that stuff is going to get taken apart and sold on the market.  And then I would be expected to spend another week, mining and scraping by to build another S core ship to try again.

 

Are you people out of your god damn minds?  This is laughable if you think people will pay to continue doing this.

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14 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

At first I wanted to have fun in ship to ship combat some day in this game.  Build my own ship, join my guildmates and fight other guilds for "whatever" reasons.  I realize that is simply not going to happen in this game.

 

Then my friend and I wanted a nice medium core cargo ship to make hauling to and from outside planets possible, something to get 2 or 3 large containers of ore back to home.  So we built a S core cargo ship.  It took a friggin week.  A week of mining, building, voxelmancy training, trial and error.  A friggin week just to get a basic interplanetary 2 medium container carrying, S core sized cargo ship going.  I'm quite proud of it, but we are ready to hit planets in the outskirts for ore.  Then the reports come in from the guild mates.  What we were afraid of hearing.  Gankers.  You fly into certain areas (wont mention which ones) and you get killed before you even notice anything.  One shotted in some cases.  Fly into the wrong neighborhood and somebody takes you out before you can even blink or react. 

So thats pvp in this game?  You people really call that pvp?  With a straight face? Really?

I just spent a ********** week on that ship.  I'm going to have to fly out to pvp zones and now i'm going to get 1 shotted by a xs core murder cube and all that stuff is going to get taken apart and sold on the market.  And then I would be expected to spend another week, mining and scraping by to build another S core ship to try again.

 

Are you people out of your god damn minds?  This is laughable if you think people will pay to continue doing this.

Eve has been around 18 years with this exact scenario you described.  What's laughable is you.  Your personal ideals on pvp arent the devs. In eve people grind months/years for supers/titans and get ganked moving them through dangerous areas solo.  To me it looks like you backed the wrong game.  But your attitude is pure dog shit, and I question your IQ. Main reason is because YOU have bias or feelings about how a game should be played and project that in a way you think everyone should feel. I personally hate games like fortnight or MMOs like WoW. But I understand people have different tastes then me. I understand why people play them, and I'm glad those people have those options. People like ME want games like this, even If they arent as popular.  I'll say this again. 

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU BACKED THE WRONG GAME, DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FUCKING RIGHT TO COME HERE LIKE AN ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT DEMANDING CHANGE TO SUIIT ONLY YOUR NEEDS. So please fuck off. And have a good day too. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Eve has been around 18 years with this exact scenario you described.  What's laughable is you.  Your personal ideals on pvp arent the devs. In eve people grind months/years for supers/titans and get ganked moving them through dangerous areas solo.  To me it looks like you backed the wrong game.  But your attitude is pure dog shit, and I question your IQ. Main reason is because YOU have bias or feelings about how a game should be played and project that in a way you think everyone should feel. I personally hate games like fortnight or MMOs like WoW. But I understand people have different tastes then me. I understand why people play them, and I'm glad those people have those options. People like ME want games like this, even If they arent as popular.  I'll say this again. 

 

IUST BECAUSE YOU BACKED THE WRONG GAME, DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE FUCKING RIGHT TO COME HEREEL LIKE AN ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT DEMANDING CHANGE TO SUIIT ONLY YOUR NEEDS. So please fuck off. And have a good day too. 

Just a wee bit of rage issues with you, maybe take some deep breaths and ease off the caps lock during your rant sessions.  I get the feeling your one of the guys calling for the "safe spaces" to be removed so everybody has to hide out on sanctuary to make free ships for you to loot when they try to leave.  Hey man, good luck with that 🤣.  No really, have fun with your blockade.

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Just now, Revelcro said:

Just a wee bit of rage issues with you, maybe take some deep breaths and ease off the caps lock during your rant sessions.  I get the feeling your one of the guys calling for the "safe spaces" to be removed so everybody has to hide out on sanctuary to make free ships for you to loot when they try to leave.  Hey man, good luck with that 🤣.  No really, have fun with your blockade.

I'm totally fine with safe zones. I could even get behind keeping the current safe zone forever if they removed all tier 3 ore. Reason being they plan for more solar systems.  So in grand scheme of things the safe zone will still be relatively small. Sorry you are wrong about my thoughts. 

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41 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

At first I wanted to have fun in ship to ship combat some day in this game.  Build my own ship, join my guildmates and fight other guilds for "whatever" reasons.  I realize that is simply not going to happen in this game.

 

Then my friend and I wanted a nice medium core cargo ship to make hauling to and from outside planets possible, something to get 2 or 3 large containers of ore back to home.  So we built a S core cargo ship.  It took a friggin week.  A week of mining, building, voxelmancy training, trial and error.  A friggin week just to get a basic interplanetary 2 medium container carrying, S core sized cargo ship going.  I'm quite proud of it, but we are ready to hit planets in the outskirts for ore.  Then the reports come in from the guild mates.  What we were afraid of hearing.  Gankers.  You fly into certain areas (wont mention which ones) and you get killed before you even notice anything.  One shotted in some cases.  Fly into the wrong neighborhood and somebody takes you out before you can even blink or react. 

So thats pvp in this game?  You people really call that pvp?  With a straight face? Really?

I just spent a ********** week on that ship.  I'm going to have to fly out to pvp zones and now i'm going to get 1 shotted by a xs core murder cube and all that stuff is going to get taken apart and sold on the market.  And then I would be expected to spend another week, mining and scraping by to build another S core ship to try again.

 

Are you people out of your god damn minds?  This is laughable if you think people will pay to continue doing this.

Wow that's a lot of pure sodium - are you selling any of it by chance?

 

Weird to think that if you fly a hauler into a pvp zone that it gets killed. I just can't believe it!

 

Have you considered perhaps not flying a loot pinata into a pvp zone?

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5 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Wow that's a lot of pure sodium - are you selling any of it by chance?

 

Weird to think that if you fly a hauler into a pvp zone that it gets killed. I just can't believe it!

 

Actually I havent even been shot at yet.  But I refuse to be a piñata for somebodies free loot.  Rather actually last longer than the blink of an eye when I bother going into pvp zones some day.  How is one shotting cargo ships over and over even fun for you?  Honestly I just don't get it.  "oh look free loot, PULL!" *Railgun Goes Boom*

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3 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

 

Actually I havent even been shot at yet.  But I refuse to be a piñata for somebodies free loot.  Rather actually last longer than the blink of an eye when I bother going into pvp zones some day.  How is one shotting cargo ships over and over even fun for you?  Honestly I just don't get it.  "oh look free loot, PULL!" *Railgun Goes Boom*

 

So you get it - don't fly your hauler without a radar into a pvp zone.

 

You don't even need to go there - and if you do - do it EVE style - you know with a scout or combat support.

 

PvP needs lots and lots of balancing work -  but even currently it's entirely optional and avoidable. So the posts asking for more and more and more safe zones and so forth make no sense to me.

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4 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

 

Actually I havent even been shot at yet.  But I refuse to be a piñata for somebodies free loot.  Rather actually last longer than the blink of an eye when I bother going into pvp zones some day.  How is one shotting cargo ships over and over even fun for you?  Honestly I just don't get it.  "oh look free loot, PULL!" *Railgun Goes Boom*

People have different tastes. Imo if a ship is poorly made with no voxels it should 1 shot.  But there are talks of possible shields and power consumption. No word on devs that I know of tho about it. But your post is still pure salt.  And apparently you dont know its beta so people pushing these mechanics to the limit actually helps the game so we can see what is not very balanced.  

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7 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

PvP needs lots and lots of balancing work -  but even currently it's entirely optional and avoidable. So the posts asking for more and more and more safe zones and so forth make no sense to me.

 

They make as little sense as the post of people asking for safe zones to be removed entirely right now or for T3 ore to removed from the safe zones right now.  Its just laughable.  Are they honestly running out of people to shoot?  Is pvp that dead right now?

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6 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

 

They make as little sense as the post of people asking for safe zones to be removed entirely right now or for T3 ore to removed from the safe zones right now.  Its just laughable.  Are they honestly running out of people to shoot?  Is pvp that dead right now?

Are you aware you can get to any planet, and any ore right now completely side stepping pvp? People have to willingly go into the pvp zone,, which you don't need to. That must have went over your head didnt it?

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