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Busterguy

When will the space safe zone be removed?

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Was covered here:

 

 

the 45min area to the 55 min area.  

 

Essentially safe zones will remain completely unchanged until territory control is implemented.   After which point "at best" all of Alioth remains safe "at worst" only district areas remain safe, the devs being unsure what the final mechanics will be.   Though they're excited about the prospect of safezone boarder PvP.   (EDIT:  Estimated 6 months)

 

Really seems kind of disappointing, the only real hook the game has is letting players see the scale the game actually operates at with the first flight and landing on another planet.  Telling new and returning players to hang out on this blighted space called sanctuary until you find a "sponsor" to be able to play elsewhere seems pretty anti-pattern to me.

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23 minutes ago, HangerHangar said:

Was covered here:

 

 

the 45min area to the 55 min area.  

 

Essentially safe zones will remain completely unchanged until territory control is implemented.   After which point "at best" all of Alioth remains safe "at worst" only district areas remain safe, the devs being unsure what the final mechanics will be.   Though they're excited about the prospect of safezone boarder PvP.   (EDIT:  Estimated 6 months)

 

Really seems kind of disappointing, the only real hook the game has is letting players see the scale the game actually operates at with the first flight and landing on another planet.  Telling new and returning players to hang out on this blighted space called sanctuary until you find a "sponsor" to be able to play elsewhere seems pretty anti-pattern to me.

Was a really good interview.  Exciting times ahead, things looking good for DU.

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@HangerHangar

 

So NQ announced that from the PVP player's perspective, at worst sanctuary moon(s) and Alioth will be off limits with he rest of the system open for PVP. And you are complaining why?

 

That the current setup will stay in place until Territory control/warfare is in makes perfect sense.

 

What is it about players like yourself that you must have everything for yourself and everything your way to be able to play a game at this scale?

Why are you unable to accept that there will me _many_ who do not seek PVP and want to do their own thing within the universe?

Where did you get the idea that DU is a combat centric game in which everything revolves around combat?

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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

@HangerHangar

 

So NQ announced that from the PVP player's perspective, at worst sanctuary moon(s) and Alioth will be off limits with he rest of the system open for PVP. And you are complaining why?

 

That the current setup will stay in place until Territory control/warfare is in makes perfect sense.

 

What is it about players like yourself that you must have everything for yourself and everything your way to be able to play a game at this scale?

Why are you unable to accept that there will me _many_ who do not seek PVP and want to do their own thing within the universe?

Where did you get the idea that DU is a combat centric game in which everything revolves around combat?

Might want to reread my post.   I'm pretty in favor of our current large blue zone and it staying.  New and Returning players need an interesting set of content choices to mess and play with, while they find/develop social contacts to play elsewhere.

 

Fully expect that opinion to not matter at all though.

 

_______________________

Even EVE has an utterly massive safe zone to mess with.   Getting out of that safezone is also insanely permeable in the sense that to get to other less safe areas you have choices between multiple routes in normal space, the Thera wormhole, the highly connected Drifter wormholes, and traditional wormhole systems   (That's before using external contacts for Cyno help or jump bridge help).    If I wanted to as a solo player I can get to any "type" of space in about an hour (IE: any 0.0 space for exploration), and have multiple choices for how I would choose to get there.    (my normal playstyle even relies on messing around in a corp like Signal Cartel for a month or two, while I see if people I know are doing anything interesting.    Or finding a newbie WH corp to play with, since even if they burn themselves out it's a fun fire to be a part of).

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17 minutes ago, HangerHangar said:

Might want to reread my post.   I'm pretty in favor of our current large blue zone and it staying.  New and Returning players need an interesting set of content choices to mess and play with, while they find/develop social contacts to play elsewhere.

 

Fully expect that opinion to not matter at all though.

 

_______________________

Even EVE has an utterly massive safe zone to mess with.   Getting out of that safezone is also insanely permeable in the sense that to get to other less safe areas you have choices between multiple routes in normal space, the Thera wormhole, the highly connected Drifter wormholes, and traditional wormhole systems   (That's before using external contacts for Cyno help or jump bridge help).    If I wanted to as a solo player I can get to any "type" of space in about an hour (IE: any 0.0 space for exploration), and have multiple choices for how I would choose to get there.    (my normal playstyle even relies on messing around in a corp like Signal Cartel for a month or two, while I see if people I know are doing anything interesting.    Or finding a newbie WH corp to play with, since even if they burn themselves out it's a fun fire to be a part of).

The only safe zones in eve are docked in NPC stations. Please don't spread misinformation about eve. Its called high security, but it is still dangerous as in I can activate my guns on you and attempt to kill you. That is nothing like DUs safe zones. 

 

FYI - the #1 most dangerous system in eve that has the most kills, is Jita, which Is 0.9 high sec system that houses the biggest trade market. If you translated that to DU, that would mean I could gank you at the sanctuary market. I'd still Lose my ship, but id have an alt scoop the loot. There are many comparisons between eve and DU, but yours are wrong.

 

EDIT - technically there are some 1.0 newbie systems that are "safe" but there is a clear rule. If the character is less than 30 days old, and in that 1.0 system you cant gank them. But if they leave that system even if they are 2 min old character, can be ganked. Also some people thought they could hide in there, and I've ganked billion isk mining ships in 1.0 whose characters were 4+ years old. They tried to cry foul, but of course they actually lacked real knowledge of how eve works and its rules. 

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@HangerHangar

 

OK, if I read your response the wrong way around I guess the comments I made would not apply an I apologize in that case but basically the same applies for those who complain about there not being enough safe space. It has always been clear how the game would eventually be open PVP outside of safezones and the only argument (which IMO is not a viable one) yo could make is that over time NQ has updated their definition of what the safezone would be as the game development progressed and they  found their original idea would not work.

For those trying to make an argument that NQ is not creating enough room for those not wanting to engage in combat to be engaged then you can stay within the safezones if you like which has always been the case and the context. Personally I think those who feel somehow threatened by PVP need to man )or woman) up and realize that this is a BIG place and it is VERY easy to play and live in the game in relative safety, especially if you put yourself under the umbrella of a protective org of which I can see many com into existence over the next few months going towards where territory combat will come into play.

 

There is many ways to create "your space" with an absolute minimal risk of being raided or attacked. Also, the brash talk of many "pirates" and PVP oriented players is just that.. talk..

 

A good example is the recent rumor that a group is about to take over the core of the planet Lacobus and disable the safe zone. Some actually believed this (it is impossible to do that) and have started packing up their stuff and leave .. right into the firing range of the group starting the rumor who are waiting outside the safezone there.. And that is IMO a very clever attempt to be creative in setting up gameplay and content.. I can only applaud the effort (and no, none of this is grieving , it is real, valid and excellent PVP strategy which not surprisingly seems to have worked in some cases).. 

 

 

Oh, and the "safezone" in EVE is probably the most scary and dangerous area of the game as you never know what someone's intention may be..

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

The only safe zones in eve are docked in NPC stations. Please don't spread misinformation about eve. Its called high security, but it is still dangerous as in I can activate my guns on you and attempt to kill you. That is nothing like DUs safe zones. 

 

FYI - the #1 most dangerous system in eve that has the most kills, is Jita, which Is 0.9 high sec system that houses the biggest trade market. If you translated that to DU, that would mean I could gank you at the sanctuary market. I'd still Lose my ship, but id have an alt scoop the loot. There are many comparisons between eve and DU, but yours are wrong.

It's safe for all purposes outside of either/both parties involved taking unreasonable action.   (Yes someone hauling enough of something for a suicide ganker to likely come out ahead, is an unreasonable action on the part of the hauler and a reasonable one on the part of the ganker).

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Just now, HangerHangar said:

It's safe for all purposes outside of either/both parties involved taking unreasonable action.   (Yes someone hauling enough of something for a suicide ganker to likely come out ahead, is an unreasonable action on the part of the hauler and a reasonable one on the part of the ganker).

For what purposes? it's not safe at all. I spent some time in CODE. And we used 1mil ships to gank literally anything. Even shuttles.  Read minerbumping.com You are not the developer of eve, and they explicitly said when you "undock" you are never safe and consent to PvP.  Thate straight from the people who CREATED eve online.  You gonna refute a statement against the creators? 

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https://zkillboard.com/system/30000142/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=253f911d80573e3306516a6446586abd7a70d089-1600541541-0-AdZYM_7O0MqYqPuEOoe0_t_HgFmIzTO7ZPWvcLe-tWPEHYqJtferSpgvQCqf4QY1v7Z-bvrKWyNM8UfaBQi8mtXESA9HJ9mkLh9D3SDLWtNqKCYQMYlUIHZO1-x-qmPCEdMcuW7d7O-bItptJgq9I1BqDHQKoo2ijvOlXgzojqqM8g7vk3SgV6tRScieDZMvn3d2AcaNPiG6u3cfVrfAXLMJKp5Ot_K6iP66Rvb_843bt5h2GDhAYXxW0lLdC2e4u-GP83PAib-97BfiD4iGjHJUSEGQCAx85146IbS81--I

 

That's jita killboards.  I dont think this site goes back 18 years, but probably around 10. And there has been 1 million kills there. Let's say 10 years. Thats 3650 days. 1million divided by 3650 is roughly 273 kills a day.  That's 11 kills an hour.  That's 5 kills a minute on average for the last 10 years. In the "safest space" eve has. Let that sink in. What would happen to DU if there was a kill every 5 minutes on sanc moon?

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

For what purposes? it's not safe at all. I spent some time in CODE. And we used 1mil ships to gank literally anything. Even shuttles.  Read minerbumping.com You are not the developer of eve, and they explicitly said when you "undock" you are never safe and consent to PvP.  Thate straight from the people who CREATED eve online.  You gonna refute a statement against the creators? 

I said outside of unreasonable action.   I don't mean that as unreasonable action against game mechanics, I mean it as unreasonable action as an independent actor.   

 

I don't even really consider your example of picking off a shuttle all that unreasonable.   That shuttle is still has enough cargo to carry a blueprint, especially around JITA with all the research/production alts in the area that could be looking to do something lazy like fly that blueprint on the alt.    Even expo frigates are likely to be in a similar situation, since there are chances they could have gotten very lucky (though them getting taken down would need the person in them to take an unreasonable action like not travel fitting, or auto piloting)

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Outside unreasonable actions means nothing. Its either safe or it's not safe. Eve has ZERO safe zones where your ship is being actively piloted if your char is greater than 30 days old. That is fact. And unreasonable is totally subjective, that's why the game development of eve doesn't use those words.

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Outside unreasonable actions means nothing. Its either safe or it's not safe. Eve has ZERO safe zones where your ship is being actively piloted if your char is greater than 30 days old. That is fact. And unreasonable is totally subjective, that's why the game development of eve doesn't use those words.

There's a huge difference between:  I can take enough precautions to make myself a target better off ignored, and it does not matter what precautions I take I just change my flavor.   

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4 minutes ago, HangerHangar said:

There's a huge difference between:  I can take enough precautions to make myself a target better off ignored, and it does not matter what precautions I take I just change my flavor.   

What's your point? In DU you csnt even be a target In the safe zone, where in EvE you are a potential target everywhere. Sure your actions increase or decrease that, but that's the point of eve. But in that regard comparing it to DU, DU Is a million times more safe. I can fly around alioth, to and from sanc moon, build. Trade, haul mine. 100% safe. you cant do any of that in eve. So as a balancing issue NQ is making safe zones relatively small compared to the rest of the game universe. 

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I became interested in DU primarily because of the open world PvP.  For me, it has to be in the game if I am going to pay a subscription. That and the fact that I really don't want a situation like in ED where people can hide in Solo and manipulate the BGS in total safety.

 

People here have already demonstrated on these forums and assumed that I must be a "ganker" because I support open world PvP. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I like team-based PvP as it involves utilizing strategy to outwit their opponents and an unpredictability that you can't really find in PvE.

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7 hours ago, blazemonger said:

@HangerHangar

 

So NQ announced that from the PVP player's perspective, at worst sanctuary moon(s) and Alioth will be off limits with he rest of the system open for PVP. And you are complaining why?

 

That the current setup will stay in place until Territory control/warfare is in makes perfect sense.

 

What is it about players like yourself that you must have everything for yourself and everything your way to be able to play a game at this scale?

Why are you unable to accept that there will me _many_ who do not seek PVP and want to do their own thing within the universe?

Where did you get the idea that DU is a combat centric game in which everything revolves around combat?

Very informative answer. In a way I am glad I discovered this before I buried thousands of hours into this game. I mean it is nice to be able to crate something nice on Sanctuary but to have effectively no other safe area (at worse) means it is not worth the gamble to play.

 

Have Fun. 

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4 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:

Very informative answer. In a way I am glad I discovered this before I buried thousands of hours into this game. I mean it is nice to be able to crate something nice on Sanctuary but to have effectively no other safe area (at worse) means it is not worth the gamble to play.

 

Have Fun. 

What baffles me is your name is flying Doom, and your from Australia. Some of the coolest mother fuckers I've pvpd with in eve and DayZ were aussies. Love those guys. Something isn't adding up.....lol

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lol posting kill bords for jitta when jitta  kill boards are mostly people testing builds and fighting each other in consensual pvp

this convo is a representation of lie's from people trying to justify killing farmers and peasants and wanting no safe zone at all

in HI SEC if you attack another player outside of consensual duals CONCORD will come and destroy you and you're rep with the current npc factions state you are in will drop and if you keep doing these actions you will become hunted buy the NPC police every time you enter their systems 

 

DU is Lawless and thinking players are going to police the game in a GOOD way is stupid and shortsighted

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@Magnus01

 

CONCORD does not prevent kills, they only "punish" the perpetrator by killing them after the fact. Meanwhile their buddies scoop the loot from the target which they scanned in advance (using neutral/out of corp characters) and determined to be worth losing the attacking ships for as the value of the drop was quite possibly going to be of (much) more value that the loss of the ship(s) they attack with. Also, it's pretty easy to up you reputation with local faction again, there is a number of ways in which you can do so.

 

If you think that Jita is a place where "mostly people testing builds and fighting each other in consensual pvp" you really have no idea of what goes on in Jita and probably do not even actually play EVE.

 

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I still hope they will do something like albion tiered approach with safe zones with basic materials (would be tier 1 and 2 for us) and everything outside progressively less "safe" with highest tier resources in completely free for all zone. 
But my hopes are diminishing with every new information :(

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20 hours ago, Elrood said:

I still hope they will do something like albion tiered approach with safe zones with basic materials (would be tier 1 and 2 for us) and everything outside progressively less "safe" with highest tier resources in completely free for all zone. 
But my hopes are diminishing with every new information :(

I should release those hopes to evaporate painlessly in the sky, Elrood, and embrace the reality that the only reliable resources in safe zones will be the rocks on the surface. And maybe some in Alioth until it's mined out. It'll be much more fun.

 

 

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i could be wrong here, but in the interview they were talking about the safe zone around planets (500km atmo area). Or did they include the big blue safe zone around alioth madis and thades?

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2 hours ago, Busterguy said:

i could be wrong here, but in the interview they were talking about the safe zone around planets (500km atmo area). Or did they include the big blue safe zone around alioth madis and thades?

The takeaway I got was that there would be no safezones "in space" at all enforced by game mechanics. I haven't seen any NQ statements about how space stations might be protected from drive-by random strafing, though, so there may be something for Space cores in the pipeline. But in the end, I get the impression that the 500km radius and the triplanetary no-fire-zone will be going. Maybe not at the same time, but gone they will be.

 

They could get rid of the triplanetary safe zone when they overhaul combat, but I think the close-in safe zones are here until we get Territory Warfare; they have to go at that point, or they entirely stop making sense. There could be an intermediate stage where combat can go all the way down to the core of the planet, outside of protected zones, but before the mechanism for attacking protected zones are finalised.

 

Definitions I'm trying to stick to:

  • Safe zones are zones where you will never be attacked. Game systems will always prevent direct PvP. Sanctuary Moons will always be safe zones. 
  • Protected zones are areas where game systems protect you from PvP until specified game conditions apply or are removed. There are none of these at the moment; they may become relevant once Territory Warfare is implemented
  • Defended zones are volumes where player action is declared to protect you from PvP. These are only as safe as the enforcement is effective.

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11 hours ago, Kezzle said:

I should release those hopes to evaporate painlessly in the sky, Elrood, and embrace the reality that the only reliable resources in safe zones will be the rocks on the surface. And maybe some in Alioth until it's mined out. It'll be much more fun.

 

 

Imho, all space is full pvp it will be bankruptcy in few weeks top for most of players in small corporation = no fun. Than bigger corporations will go = no fun. Than we will end up with few megacorps which will get bored in few more weeks later and leave. At least thats how it goes in most all world pvp server for survival games I know. Other makes periodic restarts to level playfield.  Maybe, just maybe scale effect will change stuff here.... but I don't think so. 

Ah, not to mention that anything not meta will die. So no nice looking ships at all. For any reason. 
Again no fun. But if you are right, lets hope i'm mistaken. 

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21 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Imho, all space is full pvp it will be bankruptcy in few weeks top for most of players in small corporation = no fun. Than bigger corporations will go = no fun. Than we will end up with few megacorps which will get bored in few more weeks later and leave. At least thats how it goes in most all world pvp server for survival games I know. Other makes periodic restarts to level playfield.  Maybe, just maybe scale effect will change stuff here.... but I don't think so. 

Ah, not to mention that anything not meta will die. So no nice looking ships at all. For any reason. 
Again no fun. But if you are right, lets hope i'm mistaken. 

Good thing its just your opinion.  Devs already stated everywhere outside the safe zones is pvp zone. And they will be implementing some sort of territory warfare that will surely come with it's own rules and mechanics (they have talked about favoring the defender).  And recent interview JC said safe zone is gonna be sanc moon + alioth at best.  That's the way its gonna be and a VAST majority want that. People who dont are a vocal minority, and didnt research the game they are playing. The forums are already a minority.  Everyone I know in game doesn't even visit the forums. 

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37 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Good thing its just your opinion.  Devs already stated everywhere outside the safe zones is pvp zone. And they will be implementing some sort of territory warfare that will surely come with it's own rules and mechanics (they have talked about favoring the defender).  And recent interview JC said safe zone is gonna be sanc moon + alioth at best.  That's the way its gonna be and a VAST majority want that. People who dont are a vocal minority, and didnt research the game they are playing. The forums are already a minority.  Everyone I know in game doesn't even visit the forums. 

Wow, thats a lot of assumptions. A lot of those opposite to my assumptions. Especially that JC stated that those are only possibilities, not 100% sure it will be this way. Well, we will see. 

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