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Destruktioner

Design vs functionality

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I wonder if there is any kind of incentive regarding to make the ships look cool aside from the will and taste of the designer. I mean, being the disposal of resources such a determinant factor,  what is going to prevent players from building boring, cheap, fully functional flying grey cubes with just some elements attached to them in order to save money and materials?

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In a pvp game functionality always trumps design. There's not a single instance where I would choose otherwise.

 

If it has the same functionality then I don't really care and would take the cheaper one ^^

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I expect that if you make the ship look nice, players will choose to buy your ship over a cube if they function and cost the same. Cool designs would add a small amount of value to the ship, but not much

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5 hours ago, Lethys said:

In a pvp game functionality always trumps design. There's not a single instance where I would choose otherwise.

 

If it has the same functionality then I don't really care and would take the cheaper one ^^

A clash of flying grey cubes, a very sad vision to be contemplated indeed. It may look almost like a modded Minecraft 

1 hour ago, nzwoodturner said:

I expect that if you make the ship look nice, players will choose to buy your ship over a cube if they function and cost the same. Cool designs would add a small amount of value to the ship, but not much

What if the design of the ship is not intended for selling, for example if your company ask you to make a little fleet of fighters? Shouldnt they be more interested in saving costs while  maintaining the offensive capacities ?

 

I hope the devs to create a system wich allows buildings and ships to look awesome, maybe not based in aerodynamics or other ingame physics, but in a smart resources management, with elements being neccesary and expensive, and shaped voxels being relatively cheap. Or, in any case, the community to overcome the costs and design super cool stuff anyway. 

Please, consider I have never played the game yet. Maybe there are some players out there who can enlight us on this matter. Cant wait for the Alpha2 😎

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6 hours ago, Lethys said:

In a pvp game functionality always trumps design. There's not a single instance where I would choose otherwise.

 

If it has the same functionality then I don't really care and would take the cheaper one ^^

Lethys is right, PvP ships will most probably not look like much unless DU forces us to use shapes for ingame mechanics that enhace flying, defence, attack. Else the Borg will invade DU.

 

Really nice ships and buildings will probably be build on sanctuary moons and with a non-PvP meaning, but then again, when these are under threath or are destroyed  there is a big threath of these designers to give up.

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8 hours ago, Destruktioner said:

A clash of flying grey cubes, a very sad vision to be contemplated indeed. It may look almost like a modded Minecraft 

If the box performs way better than a sleek and well Designed ship then I rly don't see the point in using it at all. Only in safezones - but then again why buy it for only that purpose. 

 

And I'm not saying it will be like that in any way. If pretty ships perform better then I buy those, I don't rly care much. Performance is what counts.

 

8 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Really nice ships and buildings will probably be build on sanctuary moons and with a non-PvP meaning, but then again, when these are under threath or are destroyed  there is a big threath of these designers to give up.

There's no threat on sanct moons nor is there any destruction because pvp is forbidden there by mechanics. Otherwise, I agree. 

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

If the box performs way better than a sleek and well Designed ship

This isn't really the way Voxels work. I will ALWAYS put some effort into making my ships look great.  If it turns out that the best PvP ship is a 12^3 cube, then I will bend the verticies of the 12^3 cube to make the nicest looking PvP ship I can. It will still be 12^3 voxels, it will just render like something else.

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18 hours ago, Destruktioner said:

I wonder if there is any kind of incentive regarding to make the ships look cool aside from the will and taste of the designer. I mean, being the disposal of resources such a determinant factor,  what is going to prevent players from building boring, cheap, fully functional flying grey cubes with just some elements attached to them in order to save money and materials?

I have a completely different opinion then Lethys. I believe that form IS function. Right now in the game, A cube is a bad design, because front surface area effects speed. the fastest ships are long thin tubes. But even that is flawed, because adjusters work better the further out from the center they are. So it is a balancing act between turning, lift loss during turning (in atmo), speed etc.

 

Aside from all of that. There is a "wow" factor to consider. A well organized squadron of sleek looking ships is going to have a reputation factor attached to it. There will even be some who are willing to trade a small amount of performance for a bit of glitz. Some won't of course, but only time will tell how that plays out.

 

I strongly believe that there will not be one PERFECT ship in this game, but rather many different ships with different focus attributes.

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18 minutes ago, Tordan said:

This isn't really the way Voxels work. I will ALWAYS put some effort into making my ships look great.  If it turns out that the best PvP ship is a 12^3 cube, then I will bend the verticies of the 12^3 cube to make the nicest looking PvP ship I can. It will still be 12^3 voxels, it will just render like something else.

Again, That's totally fine and ppl will try it ofc. All I ever said was: if I have the choice between a ugly ship which performs 1% better than some well crafted construct (all other stats equal), then I'll buy that one. 

 

Who knows how pvp will play out in du, but I certainly never want some inferior construct in my hangar just because it looks nice.

 

Ymmv and thats fine

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Just hoping NQ does a good job in adding physical needs into DU, just enough to actually need some aesthetics to build structures. As the real world also does not have flying boxes.

 

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40 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

Just hoping NQ does a good job in adding physical needs into DU, just enough to actually need some aesthetics to build structures. As the real world also does not have flying boxes.

 

If this was the case, it can only be applied in atmo ships, as long as there is no aerodynamics in space. What about a galactic law to forbid the borgs? Just kidding 

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1 hour ago, Destruktioner said:

What about a galactic law to forbid the borgs? Just kidding 

GL enforcing that when the cubes outperform any other ship xD 

 

I don't think it's that big of a deal rly. There will be ugly ships that are bad and those that are really good. Same goes for pretty ships. But ppl (other than me) tend more to fly pretty ships, so I don't think it's an issue at all for the game 

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At this point in time and space it is really impossible to figure out what will happen and when, I am sure that there will be expansions that will change a lot in how we build ships.

Flying cubes in space are fine, if I would engineer space ships probably they would all be cubes due to easy of docking and forming bigger structures, no wonder minecraft uses cubes to build stuff and imagine specific size cubes with life support just sticking to each other and forming a city. Also storing ships inside other ships is easier if they are same size and simple shape.

From PvP perspective most important thing to know is - will there be armor and how it will work, maybe 20 layers of armor would be better than shields, maybe we will have ships with huge "shields" in front to absorb damage, maybe we will have ships as small and as fast as possible so they are harder to hit.

But judging by how much money and time players are spending on cosmetics for their avatars I would say that majority of players will care what they are flying and how it looks like, but the beauty of Dual Universe is that we players will develop and change together with universe around us and our constructs will evolve over time, will be a lot of fun even if we end up flying giant cubes :)

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I love the pvp but I would probably use a little of both types of ships(boring and cheap and artistic but expensive). My reasoning is that I want people to know who I am. If I come out in a custom design ship and wreck then players will begin to know me. That has the benefit of killing morale if they think they are already up against a pro. Choosing to flee or fight poorly because of intimidation makes my job easier. People know the Red Baron's plain, not the man.

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Since this is a PVP discussion, let's talk about PVP! There are only 2 factors that military considers in their defence procurement/development: it's just efficiency and effectiveness, that's it! Effectiveness means how well it can perform it's role regardless of cost; efficiency is how economical it is in terms of unit and operational cost and still viable for it's role. What is neither efficient and effective is useless! If something cannot perform it's role, it is also useless!

 

Since when did "pretty" became a factor in the defence industry, in engineering even? As a Technician myself, I have yet to see anything that is mechanically designed for aesthetics.

 

Function man! What is this "pretty" talk?

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The difference with military ships (I think we can compare DU ships with the navy) is that DU is a game. In real life a naval ship at a good quarter of its tonnage / volume use to its crew (sanitary, food, water, dormitory, refectory ...).
We find ourselves very far from : "just efficiency and effectiveness".

So effectively if DU does not add any other parameter , we will only need an engine and a gun...

The fact of needing more volume for a ship will indirectly make it possible to make things more vary than a shoe box without necessarily losing fighting capacities.

I look forward to seeing what will be implemented to force us to "fill" our ships.

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