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Kurock

Bounty System: fun, fair and less abusable

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With the bounty system being the next stretch goal, I thought it was high time we take a look at what it could mean to "set the bounty and put a price on somebody's head".
For me at least, there are three factors that are important in a bounty system:

  • Fun: That bounty hunting *feels* like bounty hunting, not an unlucrative fetch quest.  That it is challenging to succeed at collecting a bounty and the bounty provides a suitable reward.
  • Fair: The average player is (relatively) safe.  The system should ensure that the game does not devolve into a gank fest.
  • Less abusable: Ideally a system should *not* be abusable at all, but in an MMO setting where alt's are cheap, this is very difficult to achieve.  So minimizing abuse is the goal here.

First, I will go through how MMO's in the past, present and future will have done their bounty system and then give a suggestion of one that could work in Dual Universe.  This might get a little long, so strap in or just skip to the suggested system at the end.
 
 
Past: Ultima Online
I have fond memories of my years spent in this fantasy MMORPG in the early 2000's.  PvP was changed multiple times over the course of the game and a bounty system was one aspect of PvP.  
 
This was "justice system" which could be triggered when a player was murdered by a player killer. Usually after a number of murders, a bounty from the victims own pocket could be placed on the murderers head.  A list of bounties could be looked up at a nearest bank.  If the murder could be found, killed, butchered and his head returned to a guard, the full bounty would be awarded.  
 
In some cases the head could be ransomed back to the murder or the murder would suffer a stat decrease for a defined period. In other cases, the murderer would lose his own money from the bank and it would be placed on his head as a bounty.  In yet other cases the murderer would suffer stat penalties for dying at the hands of a "blue" player.
 
In short, there were many different variations, but most revolved around the concept of a justice system specifically targeting perpetual player killers.
 
 
Present: EVE Online
There is no justice here: only money.  
 
Bounties in EVE can by placed on anyone, by anyone. And everyone can see all the bounties.  But a player having a bounty does not give all other players the right to kill that player anywhere, for example a bounty hunter attempting to collect in high-sec will still be attacked by the ever vigilant defenders, CONCORD. Although any where else, all bets are off.
 
The bounty is not paid to the bounty hunter in full, but is instead based on the value of the bounty targets destroyed ship starting at 20% of the actual bounty value. While this system reduces collusion to split the bounty between the bounty hunter and target, it also reduces the potential earnings of a bounty hunter, making bounty hunting less viable.

 
 
Future: Star Citizen
I say "future" because the game is not technically released yet.  The idea is that the bounty system is a justice system: bad guys (both PC and NPC) could have a bounty and good guys attempt to collect it.  That's it. Moving on.
 
But wait, you say, surely there is more?  Well yes.  But at this point it is conjecture.  For example some bounties may be "capture alive" some may be "dead or alive" perhaps depending on their misdeeds.  Star Citizen plans to have a legacy system where, after a random amount of lives , characters are permanently killed and replaced with their offspring. The offspring do get a bit of inheritance (and/or debt) and there is a slight neutralizing of reputation.  The bounties will probably simply disappear on death.
 
The take home point here is that this is a justice system.
 
 
A note on abusing bounty systems
The simplest way to abuse a bounty system in a free trade game is to have the bounty target and the bounty hunter collude.  The bounty hunter brings in the target and they split the bounty 50/50.
In Ultima Online, there was an inherent loss of skills at death and skills are really difficult to increase. 
In EVE the target must lose more than the bounty but bounties are so unlucrative that they no longer feel like bounty hunting.
In Star Citizen, a character will have limited number of lives (for that character at least), so death may mean losing that incarnation of your character.
But why collusion is not an issue is that it requires trust.  Trust that the bounty hunter will not just take all the money after the bounty target rolls over.

I am sure there are other ways to abuse a bounty system but these I leave for another post.

Suggestion for Dual Universe
Dual Universe is about giving players tools to run systems, not to have systems run the players.  That said, none of the above example bounty systems really tick all the boxes. So a suggestion is as follows:

  • Create a bounty: A bounty can be placed on anyone by anyone (minimum amounts on the bounty apply).  This moves the bounty system away from being a justice system tied to reputation and makes it another useful tool in the DU belt.  This, on its own, does break the "fair" goal, since anyone can be targeted but a single point does not a system make. Read on.
     
  • Get the contract: A bounty contract can only be picked up at a special terminal and is chosen from a randomly generated list of say 10 nameless bounties with a last known location (with a possibility of a reroll within a set time frame). Only those with the correct bounty contract can claim the bounty.  This means a list of bounties may be optionally published, but they will have no effect since only allowed bounty hunters with the correct contracts will be able to collect.  This makes investing into bounty hunting skills viable as it would be possible to tier bounties.
    But why contracts?  This means the game won't devolve into a griefer gank-fest.
     
  • Accept the contract: Once a contract is accepted, the bounty's name is revealed can track the target, the name remains unknown. A bounty hunter can only have a set number of bounty contracts active at one time and this does not preclude others from gaining the same contract. There should be some potential for competition after all. Also there is no auto tracking built in at best a proximity beep.
     
  • Completing the bounty: The bounty hunter kills the target and gains the full bounty amount.  A bounty should be completed within a time frame (say a month) of being accepted or the bounty hunter will suffer a penalty (e.g. monetary loss and/or temporary loss of skills). Likewise the target could suffer a temporary loss of skills.

This is a broad outline of a system and definitely still needs details filled in, but as you can see from the earlier examples, a bounty system is far from easy and straight forward.

 

Do you like what you see here? Do you have ideas for a bounty system? Feel free to discuss.

 

P.S. A further insightful video on the subject.

Edited by Kurock

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Well written (as always). Kudos there

 

I have one question there though:

 

Said BH picks up the contract and has let's say 2 months to fulfill it. He tries hard but can't really get his prey. 2 days before he would suffer skill losses or something he decides to write his prey a message....to split the bounty 30/70. True, the prey has to rely on the BH to really give him the money (if that prey is part of an intimidating group, he could have means to kill the BH repeatedly).

But what if say BOO (how lame I know) has a lot of bounties on their heads. I just create an alt, skill him for Bounties and chances aren't that bad that I actually will get some/alot of BOO contracts.... we just split and move on to the next. Debuffs/skillloss don't bother alts that much...

 

Ninjaedit: this ofc involves me thinking that just dying to someone doesn't cost you anything (you certainly strip your char of everything before you let the bh kill you)

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Good outline. But I suggest for :


1) let the bounty hunter only find the general area of a player and get updates on where they may be. At first ,a system, then a planet, then on the planet , the bounty hunter has to look around maybe ask the bartender - har har, you get the idea. Skills may icnrease or narrow the area of the search.

2) the Bounty Hunter doesn't know whom they hunt or who hired them. 

3) Make Bounty Hunters have a rating depending on their efficieny and contracts scale with the price. If I put a 1 billion Quanta bounty on someone's head, I should be getting a 5/5 Stars Bounty Hunter, someone who has completed a certain amount of bounties successfully and will deliver. if the bounty hunter doesn't deliver, they lose effectiveness rating.


4) Bounty Hunter Scoreboard. Just so people know. If you are going to be a professional greifer (yeah, I went there) you better expect to fight the way you work - unconsensually, by being ganked by vengeful marks.


Cheers!


P.S. : 5) Add a beeping sound when the prey is in proximity of the hunter and vice versa.
 

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Yes, I would like to see what twerk suggested there too. If you don't know who you hunt, you can get rid of most problems with ease. A combination of both of your ideas would be very good imho

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Not knowing who you're hunting would be... interesting, if a bounty hunter was supposed to hunt another bounty hunter. Or if said bounty hunter ended up hunting somebody in their own org who they know who's been a little trigger-happy recently.

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Not knowing who you're hunting would be... interesting, if a bounty hunter was supposed to hunt another bounty hunter. Or if said bounty hunter ended up hunting somebody in their own org who they know who's been a little trigger-happy recently.

The bounty hunter approaches the mark on his tracker and he sees a figure, clad in magenta and vibrant green power armor, Helo Kitty stickers all over him.

 

dan dan DUUUUUUUUUN

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I hope NQ allows us to hide our names, so we can hide from even our own org-mates.

 

P.S. : The algorithm could be tuned so you won't have people who are on your fiendlist or your org. Problem fixed.

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The bounty hunter approaches the mark on his tracker and he sees a figure, clad in magenta and vibrant green power armor, Helo Kitty stickers all over him.

 

dan dan DUUUUUUUUUN

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I hope NQ allows us to hide our names, so we can hide from even our own org-mates.

 

P.S. : The algorithm could be tuned so you won't have people who are on your fiendlist or your org. Problem fixed.

"

The stench in my mask was unbearable. I seriously need to clean it. Luckily, killing this target will allow me to pick up some new gear, and quite possibly a new ship.

Bright, metallic flashes shown in my helmet, and my helmet rapidly try to dampened the bright lights. After several seconds of squinting, I saw a Colonist (NOT ARKIAN) that was sporting a bright magenta breastplate, and neon-green elbow/knee pads. 'It' had its leg on a human skull, having a victory pose. I looked around 'it' and finally observed what 'it' has done. Actual colonists lay around 'it', and several melting plastic buildings. I now truly see why they wanted him dead, as I realized...

 

It was thee Twerkmotor.

"

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"

The stench in my mask was unbearable. I seriously need to clean it. Luckily, killing this target will allow me to pick up some new gear, and quite possibly a new ship.

Bright, metallic flashes shown in my helmet, and my helmet rapidly try to dampened the bright lights. After several seconds of squinting, I saw a Colonist (NOT ARKIAN) that was sporting a bright magenta breastplate, and neon-green elbow/knee pads. 'It' had its leg on a human skull, having a victory pose. I looked around 'it' and finally observed what 'it' has done. Actual colonists lay around 'it', and several melting plastic buildings. I now truly see why they wanted him dead, as I realized...

 

It was thee Twerkmotor.

"

xD

 

10/10 would watch in theatres.

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What if the target wants to pay off the bounty? Yeah they could just ask, pay the bounty amount to the contractor and then hope they pull the bounty down, but this could be used to scam people out of their money (put a bounty on them, get them to pay up, don't take the bounty down). You could place a bounty on them, but they already have your money.

 

I would suggest an 'official' method. The target puts forward money to the contractor (held in escrow) inside a request, where the contractor can then either accept (taking the money and the bounty being pulled down automatically) or deny (in which the money goes back to the target). If no option is chosen in a set time-frame or the target is killed, the money is automatically returned to the target.

 

However, this then gives us the problem of what happens to the bounty hunter if the contract is terminated. Do they get a small portion of the money, or are they left with nothing?

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I Love the PK and APK systems, its fun, fearsome and part of MMO culture ...

My Ideas are:

Any one can have a Scanner (glasses, watch, tablet, saiyajin scouter, etc .. )
Once you scan a random person you can receive some information about him, 
System generated: Good or bad reputation... and some stats about him

Player generated: rates and comments (gossip) about him


once his bad reputation reach some level his considered a criminal and can have a bounty assigned by any one, person or corporation.

if his bad reputation get high enough, he become considered a most wanted and th system automatically assign a bounty over his head.

 

once a person scans a player that have a bounty on his head, the scanner will alert and show a basic info about his crimes (previously setup by the person who initially put the bounty). So when some one finds a criminal, he can act as the "tavern man" and tell or sell this information to the bounty hunter that is searching his target nearby.

Also the Hunter can bring his hole crew to scan as many ppl as possible to ensure the target does not scape...

 

About penalty, after lose one contract, i don't think hunter suppose to lose skills or win a debuff, since when you lose in fact you learn, not the opposit. Bu i think there must be a tax, payed at moment you accept the contract ... Like you choose to accept a contract for $Un 10.000  you must pay 10% of it, as a tax to subscribe on this hunt.... All other hunters that accept this contract must pay the same, (and you must be informed by the system how much hunters are already chasing this target). 
Once any hunter gets the target, all other hunters automatically receive a message informing that this hunt is over and he loses the 10% he payed before. the same occurs if he pass to long time after the target, when the time is up, consider that the criminal has scaped and the hunters are automatically removed from this contract and he doesn't get refund of that 10% he has payed before.

For the criminal, all times he evades from a hunt, he can win some "prize", in this case yes,
maybe one month buff for some skill and have his "bad" reputation lowered for a certain amount, that maybe removes him from the  bounty list margin.

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Bu i think there must be a tax, payed at moment you accept the contract ... Like you choose to accept a contract for $Un 10.000  you must pay 10% of it, as a tax to subscribe on this hunt.... All other hunters that accept this contract must pay the same, (and you must be informed by the system how much hunters are already chasing this target). 

Who does the tax go to? Wouldn't this remove money from the economy if it goes down a drain (since we have a fixed-ish amount of money in the economy)?

 

Surely you don't lose a contract unless a target is terminated or you abandon it. Also having the number of other hunters hidden would make it so that the hunters are cautious about how leisurely they would hunt their target.

 

Once any hunter gets the target, all other hunters automatically receive a message informing that this hunt is over and he loses the 10% he payed before. the same occurs if he pass to long time after the target, when the time is up, consider that the criminal has scaped and the hunters are automatically removed from this contract and he doesn't get refund of that 10% he has payed before.

But the hunters already lose out by not getting the bounty, meaning it was a waste of time. Why would you take more from them?! There is no penalty from having more hunters, so why penalise having more of them?

 

I believe that this would drastically reduce the amount of 'official' bounty hunters in game and therefore make the official bounty system useless, people would just do it through unofficial channels which would have no guidelines or enforcement.

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But let us consider the following. what is the difference between a bounty hunter and a hired assassin?

 

None. Unless Aunt Beru was a criminal, Bobba Fett is both.

 

 

It's a bounty, not law enforcement. Morality is subjective, one man's hero is another man's villain. Both ''heroes'' and ''villains'' are allergic to lead, so both can be killed.

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I Love the PK and APK systems, its fun, fearsome and part of MMO culture ...

 

My Ideas are:

 

Any one can have a Scanner (glasses, watch, tablet, saiyajin scouter, etc .. )

Once you scan a random person you can receive some information about him, 

System generated: Good or bad reputation... and some stats about him

Player generated: rates and comments (gossip) about him

 

 

once his bad reputation reach some level his considered a criminal and can have a bounty assigned by any one, person or corporation.

if his bad reputation get high enough, he become considered a most wanted and th system automatically assign a bounty over his head.

 

once a person scans a player that have a bounty on his head, the scanner will alert and show a basic info about his crimes (previously setup by the person who initially put the bounty). So when some one finds a criminal, he can act as the "tavern man" and tell or sell this information to the bounty hunter that is searching his target nearby.

 

Also the Hunter can bring his hole crew to scan as many ppl as possible to ensure the target does not scape...

 

 

About penalty, after lose one contract, i don't think hunter suppose to lose skills or win a debuff, since when you lose in fact you learn, not the opposit. Bu i think there must be a tax, payed at moment you accept the contract ... Like you choose to accept a contract for $Un 10.000  you must pay 10% of it, as a tax to subscribe on this hunt.... All other hunters that accept this contract must pay the same, (and you must be informed by the system how much hunters are already chasing this target). 

Once any hunter gets the target, all other hunters automatically receive a message informing that this hunt is over and he loses the 10% he payed before. the same occurs if he pass to long time after the target, when the time is up, consider that the criminal has scaped and the hunters are automatically removed from this contract and he doesn't get refund of that 10% he has payed before.

 

For the criminal, all times he evades from a hunt, he can win some "prize", in this case yes,

maybe one month buff for some skill and have his "bad" reputation lowered for a certain amount, that maybe removes him from the  bounty list margin.

That's the EVE Bounty sytem, and it's highly, HIGHLY EXPLOITABLE.

 

 

Also you miss the point about morality. Criminals are subjective.

 

Han Solo may be a protagonist in Star Wars, but guess what, he smuggles drugs. He sold drugs he was suppsoed to deliver. Jabba sent Bobba Fett after Solo. WhY? Cause Solo cost the Hutts money and many workers of the Hutts had to suffer for Solo stealing from the Hutt.

 

Solo deserved a blaster shot in the head, not a carbonite confinement. Greedo was the good guy. Greedo was there to aprpehend a person who hurt the Tatooine economy by robbing the Hutts. The Empire was anti-drugs, and Solo has killed many brave and LAWBRINGING STORMTROOPERS who tried to apprehend a known drug-smuggler and - believe it or not - human trafficker. Yeah, let's not forget what kind of missions Solo took.

 

Who is "the criminal" in our case? The Hutts? Greedo? Solo ? Fett? The Stormtroopers? The answer is : "Think about it".

 

Morality is pretty much a joke, perpetrated by people who seek simple answers to compelx questions, it's why IRL we got a complex law system to determine proof of guilt, but in a video game, it's not like that.. And simple answers, make for excellent explotiation. This system Kurock proposes is actually exploit-proof. You get a mission and go finish it, it's not "scan for possible farm". That's just a greif-fest ready to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

What if the target wants to pay off the bounty? Yeah they could just ask, pay the bounty amount to the contractor and then hope they pull the bounty down, but this could be used to scam people out of their money (put a bounty on them, get them to pay up, don't take the bounty down). You could place a bounty on them, but they already have your money.

 

I would suggest an 'official' method. The target puts forward money to the contractor (held in escrow) inside a request, where the contractor can then either accept (taking the money and the bounty being pulled down automatically) or deny (in which the money goes back to the target). If no option is chosen in a set time-frame or the target is killed, the money is automatically returned to the target.

 

However, this then gives us the problem of what happens to the bounty hunter if the contract is terminated. Do they get a small portion of the money, or are they left with nothing?

Well, no. There's no possible contract that can prevent a person from backstabbign you in such  a case. I can have ap erson pay me to not kill them and I can kill them when they pay. There's no possible way of coding such a system without it being so complex it's essentialyl as cam-mecvhanic, rather than a cotnract. Im ena, people in EVE can't telll what "I Will Pay" and "I Will Recieve" means, usually being tricked into selling PLEX for 1 isk, so, ;et's not make contracts even more complex.

 

 

The video Kurock links to, has a very good point on this - which I am only assuming, nobody bothered watching - where the person in the video, says "what if the bounty hunter breaks a deal with their mark? Again ,that's the nature of a sandbox, people can collude". Although, let's be honest, if you lose the initiative, you are doomed. Alertign your aarget is the best way to tell them "call for backup". They can rprocrastiante until reinforcements get there.

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I would say the difference between a bounty hunter and a hired assassin would be the level of knowledge each has of both the bounty, and the person putting the bounty out there.

 

IE: Bounty Hunter = person who browses the list of public bounties, picks one, goes and kills, collects.

 

Hired Assassin = Person who is contacted directly by another person (or org) to kill/steal someone/something specific. Probably does not use the "official" bounty system, instead more of a "Pay me 10k now, and 40k when I kill him".

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I would say the difference between a bounty hunter and a hired assassin would be the level of knowledge each has of both the bounty, and the person putting the bounty out there.

 

IE: Bounty Hunter = person who browses the list of public bounties, picks one, goes and kills, collects.

 

Hired Assassin = Person who is contacted directly by another person (or org) to kill/steal someone/something specific. Probably does not use the "official" bounty system, instead more of a "Pay me 10k now, and 40k when I kill him".

Did you miss the point Kurock made about "you don't pick your target, you are randomly given one".

 

You know, SO IT'S NOT EXPLOITABLE. So I don't go and get a bounty meant for me and essentially have the guy pay me for kiling me with an alt.

 

That's the point of the system, to not be exploitable. You are given a random contract, depending on your effeiciency rating whi nets yo ua minium pay adnd yo ugo hutn down the person you are given as a mark, and I suggested, you DON'T EVEN KNOW, who you go after.If you find the target and you see they got company, clal for back up. Simple.

 

Also, what kind of difference resources would an assassin have access to that a Bounty Hunter wouldnt?

 

Is this WoW? Can I only be an assassin if I role a rogue? No. Of course not. Both people have access to tools equally. Both have access to networks if they know what to do and what people to pay.

 

The argueement can be made that the higher the influence a person has, the more high the bounty should be, so, if a peson is a laeder of a coalition of 50000 people, the price goes up automatically on the algorithm, in comparison to Joey Nobody, Newbro who did nothing wrong other than parking in front of you on the space-mall. Could a person issue a private contract and ask a person to kill a certain someone? Sure, but the anonymitiy is lost, so you better have a trusted Bounty Hunter for the job that has integrity and won't sell you out.

 

You can't have a "Browser" for contracts. It's simply terrible game design to have that in a bounty system. It only makes top-bounties vanish, taken up by people and even worse, removed intentionally, or even having the bounty display who is the target, only makes the system explotiable even more.

 

This system follows the principle of RISK & REWARD, which is a core part of the game. You see a high paying boutny? You better got buddies, cause oyu may lose your efficieny rating if you fail to finish the job within the time-frame.

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I Love the PK and APK systems, its fun, fearsome and part of MMO culture ...

 

My Ideas are:

 

Any one can have a Scanner (glasses, watch, tablet, saiyajin scouter, etc .. )

Once you scan a random person you can receive some information about him, 

System generated: Good or bad reputation... and some stats about him

Player generated: rates and comments (gossip) about him

 

 

once his bad reputation reach some level his considered a criminal and can have a bounty assigned by any one, person or corporation.

if his bad reputation get high enough, he become considered a most wanted and th system automatically assign a bounty over his head.

 

once a person scans a player that have a bounty on his head, the scanner will alert and show a basic info about his crimes (previously setup by the person who initially put the bounty). So when some one finds a criminal, he can act as the "tavern man" and tell or sell this information to the bounty hunter that is searching his target nearby.

 

Also the Hunter can bring his hole crew to scan as many ppl as possible to ensure the target does not scape...

 

 

About penalty, after lose one contract, i don't think hunter suppose to lose skills or win a debuff, since when you lose in fact you learn, not the opposit. Bu i think there must be a tax, payed at moment you accept the contract ... Like you choose to accept a contract for $Un 10.000  you must pay 10% of it, as a tax to subscribe on this hunt.... All other hunters that accept this contract must pay the same, (and you must be informed by the system how much hunters are already chasing this target). 

Once any hunter gets the target, all other hunters automatically receive a message informing that this hunt is over and he loses the 10% he payed before. the same occurs if he pass to long time after the target, when the time is up, consider that the criminal has scaped and the hunters are automatically removed from this contract and he doesn't get refund of that 10% he has payed before.

 

For the criminal, all times he evades from a hunt, he can win some "prize", in this case yes,

maybe one month buff for some skill and have his "bad" reputation lowered for a certain amount, that maybe removes him from the  bounty list margin.

 

 

I would say the difference between a bounty hunter and a hired assassin would be the level of knowledge each has of both the bounty, and the person putting the bounty out there.

 

IE: Bounty Hunter = person who browses the list of public bounties, picks one, goes and kills, collects.

 

Hired Assassin = Person who is contacted directly by another person (or org) to kill/steal someone/something specific. Probably does not use the "official" bounty system, instead more of a "Pay me 10k now, and 40k when I kill him".

 

All systems involving you (as the bountyhunter) knowing who your target is are unbalanced, unfair and abusable. The instance you know the name of the guy you can just split bounties.

 

You might object here and say: "But with the proposed system here a smart person would know too who his target might be!"

That's true. I mean, you don't have to be a genious to guess your prey is part of the TU when you have to search for him in the middle of their homeland....The turning point here is: you already invested (a lot?) time finding him in the first place. If you know EXACTLY who he is once you get near - yeah sure, you can still split. But such a system wouldn't be abusable from the beginning. You'd have to put effort in first to get to know your prey (which in itself is good gameplay).

 

But such a system would involve (depending on the exact game mechanics/numbers/blablabla...):

- a meaning for BHs. They would be experts in tracking down people, pinning their location in a vast universe.

- actual meaning for spais/traitors who will give away the location

- social aspects of DU: getting to know your prey, his online times, his friends, possibly being a spai yourself and infiltrate their ranks to get intel on him

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That's the EVE Bounty sytem, and it's highly, HIGHLY EXPLOITABLE.

 

 

Also you miss the point about morality. Criminals are subjective

 

I think you don't got my idea .... 

I'm not proposing a new system ....I like the Kurock's system....

"This is a broad outline of a system and definitely still needs details filled in"

 

thats where my ideas goes to !!

 

like

1- you got the random bounty from the system (you don't know the name or exactly location)

2- Some sort of compass (maybe on your scanner) points you towards a direction, and once there, it shows you the approximate area where your target is

3- Once in th area, then you and your friends, that doesn't know the target name or appearance, start to scan ppl around, in close range, until fond the target

 

Remember what you said ?

Good outline. But I suggest for :

 

1) let the bounty hunter only find the general area of a player and get updates on where they may be. At first ,a system, then a planet, then on the planet , the bounty hunter has to look around maybe ask the bartender 

 

Since we don't have any NPCs on DU, how and for who the hunter will ask for clues ?  

Normal ppl can scan other nearby, not looking for bounties but to see the person status, if hes trustble and gossip (other players comments on that PC)

 

if the scanned PC have a bounty on it, the scan shows a tag "wanted", just that..... 

 

so with this information now the 3rd player can sell or tell this information, to the hunter or to a local (spy) guild acting like the "bartender" you spoke about it..

 

 

-----------------

 

and I didn't missed up the morality point.... in RL morality is a 2 side view and complex stuff etc...

but luckily this is just a game... \o/  thats why i said about "I like PK system".

Inside a MMO morality can be simple with a Player rate system (i think i will open a new topic about that)

but for short answer, if you go thr and kill a random peaceful miner or other random PC that was living his life, you got a PK status, if you have PK status enough you are a criminal..... and other ppl (maybe the one you killed or his friends) or any Org can put a prize on your head, using the bounty system. if you have a very high PK score, the system open a bounty on you automatically, thats make the bounty system aways running even if no player goes there pay for no one's head.

 

 

  • Completing the bounty: The bounty hunter kills the target and gains the full bounty amount.  A bounty should be completed within a time frame (say a month) of being accepted or the bounty hunter will suffer a penalty (e.g. monetary loss and/or temporary loss of skills). Likewise the target could suffer a temporary loss of skills.

 

Thats where i think a tax on the moment you accept the job must be applied, otherwise all players will get to the system and sing as many bounties as possible just for "if i cross with a wanted guy i can get easy(or not) money) 

 

Charging a flee to sing in a job will enforce just the guys that make their lives as bounty hunters to get the jobs from the system....

 

 

Who does the tax go to? Wouldn't this remove money from the economy if it goes down a drain (since we have a fixed-ish amount of money in the economy)?

 

 

It goes no where, the tax will be used to feed the system.. for its functionality of auto bounty on players with to high PK or criminal stats....

 

(also at any time any game system charge players with money flees, and can't return that money, a lottery system can be implemented, the money never disappears)

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I think you don't got my idea .... 

I'm not proposing a new system ....I like the Kurock's system....

"This is a broad outline of a system and definitely still needs details filled in"

 

thats where my ideas goes to !!

 

like

1- you got the random bounty from the system (you don't know the name or exactly location)

2- Some sort of compass (maybe on your scanner) points you towards a direction, and once there, it shows you the approximate area where your target is

3- Once in th area, then you and your friends, that doesn't know the target name or appearance, start to scan ppl around, in close range, until fond the target

 

Remember what you said ?

 

Since we don't have any NPCs on DU, how and for who the hunter will ask for clues ?  

Normal ppl can scan other nearby, not looking for bounties but to see the person status, if hes trustble and gossip (other players comments on that PC)

 

if the scanned PC have a bounty on it, the scan shows a tag "wanted", just that..... 

 

so with this information now the 3rd player can sell or tell this information, to the hunter or to a local (spy) guild acting like the "bartender" you spoke about it..

 

The bartender joke is about asking a local player who lives on the planet where other settlements may be if the one you found has not the player you seek. If you go the target lvies to the equivalento f Tortuga, you may have to search abit to find them. And I did suggest a more organic idea, in the form of a beeping sound". Noone needs to scan people liuke mad to find the target, cause nobody knows who the target is, just that theey are in the planet. Think of it as "homing into" a person's brain implant. And sicne the target is also able to realise when boutny hutners are near, it becomes a VERY GOOD INCENTIVE, to avoid crowded cities, especially if you are a criminal, or live in an area with your teammates, so you don't have to worry about one of them getting a bounty on you.

 

 

 

 

As for Risk

 

The Bounty Hunter takes on the risk of losing efficiency, thus a lower score, thus a lower bounty pool they can access. They also risk dying, this is not "kill NPC that's not a challenge". It won't be a fair fight and people are not "movie bad guys", they won't attack one at a time and they will probably jump the BH first. Not to mention, the BOUNTY HUNTER will lose their stuff if they die, so they do take a risk, especially if they have to work solo and have alot of gear and high-frade equipment involved.

 

In fact, the Bounty System needs no "skillpoints reduction for a time". The System itself is making the Bounty Hunter a target if they are high on the scoreboard. Being "highly efficient" as a Bounty Hunter, means that ANY PERSON EVER, that has been hit by a bounty hunter, will look at the top boutny hunter and go like "screw that guy, let's get 100 guys and gank him".

 

I mean, people on youtube hate people who make money by doing their hobby, those Bounty Hunters if anything, will have to risk being prime-targeted for a kill by ANYONE.

 

As they say : "You live by the sword, you die by the sword". If I was to paraphrase : "You love to gank, you get ganked".

 

So, they don't need a skillpoints loss system, just a scoreboard would suffice. Let the players engineer the "backfire".

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Inside a MMO morality can be simple with a Player rate system (i think i will open a new topic about that)

but for short answer, if you go thr and kill a random peaceful miner or other random PC that was living his life, you got a PK status, if you have PK status enough you are a criminal..... and other ppl (maybe the one you killed or his friends) or any Org can put a prize on your head, using the bounty system. if you have a very high PK score, the system open a bounty on you automatically, thats make the bounty system aways running even if no player goes there pay for no one's head.

Here is the thing though, aren't players supposed to place bounties on PKers? If you managed to scan/identify who that PKer is before death, you should get the ability to put a bounty on them. What if the PKer in question is actually a very good commando, operating behind enemy lines without being detected? Wouldn't they just get a massive automated bounty on them, making it easier to track? Also, there is no overarching law in the game which applies to everyone, so they can only be a criminal when looked at from a player/org perspective (at which point, they put a bounty on them).

 

In addition, I feel that since the hunter has already wasted time if they fail the contract, they shouldn't then lose money. A monetary loss combined with deadlines and the random assignment of contracts means that you might be unlucky enough that your target is piloting one of the most feared ships in the galaxy and since it would take too long to work your way up into being a crew member of that ship and getting close enough to the target to kill them, its just a failed contract when you identify who your target is. What they should lose is hunter reputation (the thing that is used to determine what bounty you would be assigned) which they would have to build back up.

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Here is the thing though, aren't players supposed to place bounties on PKers? If you managed to scan/identify who that PKer is before death, you should get the ability to put a bounty on them. What if the PKer in question is actually a very good commando, operating behind enemy lines without being detected? Wouldn't they just get a massive automated bounty on them, making it easier to track? Also, there is no overarching law in the game which applies to everyone, so they can only be a criminal when looked at from a player/org perspective (at which point, they put a bounty on them).

 

In addition, I feel that since the hunter has already wasted time if they fail the contract, they shouldn't then lose money. A monetary loss combined with deadlines and the random assignment of contracts means that you might be unlucky enough that your target is piloting one of the most feared ships in the galaxy and since it would take too long to work your way up into being a crew member of that ship and getting close enough to the target to kill them, its just a failed contract when you identify who your target is. What they should lose is hunter reputation (the thing that is used to determine what bounty you would be assigned) which they would have to build back up.

 

Well, reality is, no commando will ever exist in DU. And those who will exist, will be just alt characters without anyone knowing who they are and keepin a low profile by being a hauler or a miner or, you know KEEPING A LOW PROFILE. So no, if you go with your notorious PK'er character and try to infiltrate an enemy planet, you are stupid and you should be punished with every bulltet, laser and missile people can shoot at you.

 

 

As for the PK'er "justice system". That's bogus. If a smuggler hurts my station's or faction's revenue by dealing in black markets in my region, shouldn't I brutally blow their ship and sent people after them? What? Aren't smugglers haulers for unregulated goods? What? Just because they don't commit PK tey are okay?

 

No. It's either NQ including a bounty system that is available to all and is impossible to exploit, or this wil lbe like EVE's "unofficial" bounty system, where people have to deal in offline methods to get a person's stuff broken.

 

Let's say you want you superior officer being triggered by being targeted all the time for ganks, so they lose their mind in discord after being annoyed, thus being replaced... with you! Now you can hire ANY merc out there to do the job if you can place a bounty on anyone. without you suffering the consequences. Which makes the need for security forces apparent. And hey, if you want a sepcial deaall out of the bounty, like "destroy this dockyard as well" you can now make CONTRACTS with particular people - or a broker for cotnracts, that ensures your anonymitiy for a bigger cost though.

 

Which makes people treat subordinates BETTER, so they don't backstab their superior in an orgnaisation, which reduces DRAMA insdie an org.

 

 

Word of Notice.

 

A system that is non-exploiitable, is NOT a system that can't be scammed. Thing is, if you find a person that's scamming the bounty system, by having "triggleypuffs" being targeted so they put a bounty on a person by a "trusty boutny hunter" and then the hunter ging after their accomplish. But hey, if you hire ANYONE to do the job, this makes the systme non-scammable either. Which loops back to my point. Havign the system being free "target a person you hate" with a bounty" meanas al ot more, as Bounty Hunters, can be ANYONE - even mercenaries commiting a black ops.

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Inside a MMO morality can be simple with a Player rate system (i think i will open a new topic about that)

but for short answer, if you go thr and kill a random peaceful miner or other random PC that was living his life, you got a PK status, if you have PK status enough you are a criminal..... and other ppl (maybe the one you killed or his friends) or any Org can put a prize on your head, using the bounty system. if you have a very high PK score, the system open a bounty on you automatically, thats make the bounty system aways running even if no player goes there pay for no one's head.

 

Charging a flee to sing in a job will enforce just the guys that make their lives as bounty hunters to get the jobs from the system....

It goes no where, the tax will be used to feed the system.. for its functionality of auto bounty on players with to high PK or criminal stats....

(also at any time any game system charge players with money flees, and can't return that money, a lottery system can be implemented, the money never disappears)

 

Hm so I guess, Mercs are all bad players and criminals per se :(

 

That Tax is paid to whom? The system? What will be done with that money? Nothing? -> that's a classical money sink

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A few points:  

 

Assassins vs Bounty Hunters

Sounds like an epic battle.  ahem.  Hiring an assassin to go gank someone does not require a special system.  There will be players even orgs that will provide such a service and they will only get clients if they are successful.  Bounty hunting, I feel, does need some sort of system to be lucrative.

 

Morality of Bounty Hunting

Games tend to push the "bounties for PK'ers" stance. It is righteous retribution and protecting the weak. Except this feels rather forced.  I don't think a system should take away a players right to decide on their own morality.  Restricting it to only one group locks away so much potential game play and takes away player decisions.  A system should be a tool which is unbiased and can be used for good or evil.  This allows players to play as the "good" bounty hunter that only hunts those evil PK'ers. But also allows for those morally bankrupt bounty hunters that preys on citizens.  And perhaps we will get some excellent stories when the "good" bounty hunter hunts the "evil" ones. YMMV.
 

 

I like the discussion's so far.  Keep the ideas coming.

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A few points:  

 

Assassins vs Bounty Hunters

Sounds like an epic battle.  ahem.  Hiring an assassin to go gank someone does not require a special system.  There will be players even orgs that will provide such a service and they will only get clients if they are successful.  Bounty hunting, I feel, does need some sort of system to be lucrative.

 

Morality of Bounty Hunting

Games tend to push the "bounties for PK'ers" stance. It is righteous retribution and protecting the weak. Except this feels rather forced.  I don't think a system should take away a players right to decide on their own morality.  Restricting it to only one group locks away so much potential game play and takes away player decisions.  A system should be a tool which is unbiased and can be used for good or evil.  This allows players to play as the "good" bounty hunter that only hunts those evil PK'ers. But also allows for those morally bankrupt bounty hunters that preys on citizens.  And perhaps we will get some excellent stories when the "good" bounty hunter hunts the "evil" ones. YMMV.

 

 

I like the discussion's so far.  Keep the ideas coming.

Well, successful traders in EVE get bounties on their heads (off the game cause the in-game bounty system in EVE is a joke) and they are stalked after by mercenary groups. And no, high-sec police won't stop CODE from killign the traders.

 

Bounty Hunting is a profession as much as pathfinding is. It's a side profession, that falls under mercenary work. And so do assassins. You don't need to be a ninja to fire a sniper rifle. A hitman and a bounty hunter are the same thing, they just follow a certain agreement for extra money. The Hitman may be asked to blow up a space station cause the rival station wants that sweet revenue, and the bounty hunter may be asked to destroy a space station full of pirate gear. What's the differnece? None.

 

Morality is a joke. Nations use Black Ops to deal indirectly with problems. They hire mercenaries to carry on a very VERY grey-morals mission or deliver something that it shouldn't be delivered to some people. 

 

Let's say I got an N.A.P. with a neighbouring faction, we are all dandy but I want their plutonium mines. They go into war with an enemy on their flank. But I don't want to send my guys in the fight. I can HIRE a neutral org to go after the enemy org with an organisation-wide bounty (ranks provide more money) and send the mercenary org that takes the 1 month contract to go and fight the neighbour I got an N.A.P. with.

 

That's actually what brought Pirates in the 1700s into the scene. Contracted 3rd parties, meant to fight proxy wars for the empires of the times. It's what also inspired Hideo Kojima on the story of Metal Gear Solid, just so you know. That and Escape from New York (best movie ever).

 

Vengeance is a dish best served cold, but guess what, it can also be ordered from a deli menu. And this is what the Bounty System should be. Anything that enriches the meta-game of a sandbox, is a good thing.

 

You can either have a widely accessible bounty-hunting systme, or yo ucan have a niche boutny systme only a few peopel get into (like in EVE).

 

The "punish the bad men" arguement is just silly. We might as well have orcs and humans in the game if that's the case.

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