MookMcMook

Servers cost money. 
Developing new content costs money. 
Paying people a decent wage to maintain and operate a mmorpg costs money. 
Saving a character state is just a small part of the overall picture. 
 
NQ has said on multiple occasions that the expansions will be free. So I don't get why you seem to think player generated content means that after the initial development NQ's job is done. Even if no new content is developed operating and maintaining servers cost money. 
 
I could write an endless post about why p2p is a more honest business model, why it's cheaper for the player who is invested and why "f2p" was invented and packaged as being "for the player" but I'm not sure if that would advance the discussion. 
 
I do think I answered your question. 

Love Empyrion, but this claim is at best pretentious. You have no actual control over the core planet design. Also the scale is much, much smaller. You can easily walk around a planet in Empyrion, I'd suggest you try this in DU  ..  I always have a chuckle when I read the claims regarding the seed in Empyrion when it really only determines where the resources are.
 
Empyrion has a lot to offer on paper, but it's all very shallow and the immersion is minimal. It's much closer to SE than it is to DU. Really DU will be much closer to EVE without the huge battles and fleets but with the control players have over the actual game and how it evolves. To me SC is really going nowhere very fast and ED is bacially Trucking Simulator in Space, quite fun actually but that's about it.
 
For me, DU holds a lot of promise of which we  will need to see how well it translates into an actual game.

Is DU really that "highly rendered graphics"? I don't think so. It's already an area of sacrifice. What's quite impressive is the LOD seeing stuff in the distance: I want to book my space tourism ticket already. Look at SC, it's ridiculous how much like a movie it looks in comparison.
 
Yeah there's no water particles or collision, those are trade-offs: Performance, granularity of detail trade off for a scaled mmo and gameplay: These were discussed in the forums somewhere with some input from NQ.
 
As to which is a better approach? Lots of servers with smaller populations but more realism and granularity (survival stuff is in this category) or a single shard. Personally, the bigger single shard population of players is a bigger pull. I think the shared story makes the story more interesting.
 
Planets are proc gen atm and they use an algorithm for generating the correct type of resources and proportions. It's an area they can iterate on over time. Again they've managed size, so extras eg animals or some such, it's a future consideration. Given how much voxel terraforming there is and construct design, it's not a big issue.
 
I do agree, I would love interesting biome parameters for more biological representation in the game...
 
It'll be DIFFERENT from most of what is out. Too many games are made these days according to the established tropes of an established genre: People seem to expect a certain formula when it's been done a thousand times... Games originally arose not to become like previous games but to represent something we could experience or imagine and how that might be represented creatively using computers: The latter is a more interesting way of developing games. Instead "build a platformer"... *sigh*. This is what I like about the simulation dream. Could we represent worlds and how do we do that and what's the essential stuff to make if feel right: So much more interesting. Today's mmorpgs are all the former and it shows (bar a few exceptions).

With respect to the networking problem:-
 
1. Large Population Total
2. Population Density Problem
 
It seems DU is designed (design intention) to be around EVE. I can't think of any other MMOs that invested into networking technology to the same degree (with 3d graphics). Bear in mind the reason for multiple shards is primarily number 2 and even then many mmos deliberately partition Total population via levelling zones, instances, game modes, quest hub bread crumbs and so on. Bear in mind large crowds in mmo combat are often a zergy mess and poor quality gameplay irrespective of performance meltdown too. The main problem is MMO as a genre has a USP arounding CONNECTING PLAYERS in high quality social interaction ways: Think of liking or following on facebook or twitter for example for social network. Trade is a primary means of this "There's No Catholic Or Protestant When Trade Is Being Conducted" is an old saying from days of yore for example.
 
So that is exceptional category and the virtual economy is what will result if the game has:-
 
1. Enough social groups
2. Enough complexity in the sink-faucet of valuable resources
3. Distance/Scarcity dimensions
4. Politics and Territory above this.
 
A lot of "mmorpgs" don't really make any sense. If you have economic pressures and incentives this fuels a lot of gameplay behaviour by individuals and groups. And that needs a lot of SCALING UP. Eg EVE. I think this simulation is a key component of virtual worlds: They must have designs that make more simulacra in gameplay behaviours emerging as they might in say historic epochs of human history at a high level. Obviously DU is a "what if...?" with humanity in the future beyond Earth and our own solar system and in other solar systems within the galaxy. Interesting if the simulation follows some of what we currently know and assume about large scale drivers of human group motivations and patterns.
, then add voxels to that networking scale. I'm surprised how BLIND people appear to be
And the other thing: I don't see a lot of voxel games but when you do see them and you see how creative they are, then that's a huge dimension for mmorpgs. Not just that but look at the above COMBINED with voxels by comparing game world sizes:-
 
Ultima Online - 55.9 km²
World of Warcraft - 80mi2
Asheron's Call - 500mi2
Guild Wars: Nightfall - 15,000mi2
The Lord of the Rings Online - 30,000mi2
(NOT AN MMO) Elder Scrolls Online - 62,000mi2
WWIIOL online uses a ½ scale map of Western Europe with 52,000 km2 (20,077 sq mi) of accurate terrain (800 m resolution satellite data).
Life Is Feudal - 441km2
 
Now look at DU:-
 
Dual Universe - ALIOTH ONLY: 45,238.93 km2
 

 
Now add to this... (still only Alioth...): Volume of physical planet Total = 1,150,346 km3
 
Bear in mind the volume of the Atmospheric Belt surrounding this physical volume (some of which will never be used oc) and then the amount of volume above this in Space radiating out used too. Does anyone have some info on the atmospheric radius of Alioth? You can see a thin layer clearly in the latest backer portal video.
 
This is where the VOXELS really shake things up as you can see purely using the simple crude comparison of world size AREA vs Volume.
 
In most mmorpgs there's tiny amount of volume for starters: Limited free-form flight and interaction in this dimension or else gradient rise and fall. I think some mmorpgs have swimming deep in seas/lakes. But overall the ground is texture and hence area interaction mostly.
 
Not only can players go up and down in locomotion the actual physical layer is useful for resources and building structures too with voxels.
 
Then add the space around the other planets and the total solar system, then add more solar systems... And I barely mentoned what sort of huge data on the voxel manipulation changes to the world as well as the number and diversity of constructs multiplying changing the landscape or spacescape too.
 
You can see that in theory, DU is really something else. Again EVE compares, but it's "empty space" (I really liked the theory behind their dust game linking but sadly it did not work in practice).
 
Let's come back to the advantages of SCALING PLAYER NUMBERS (if it's possible):-
 
With so much space, there needs to be lot of players for that space to make a tiny impact on it. That is to say, most mmorpgs, they are not complex interaction systems at all: Neither socially nor in game world interactions either.
 
It will be interesting to see if DU achieves high physical interaction that itself drives further social interaction and that drives  more of each and so on...
 
It's still early days so that may explain why many don't seem to twig: Another NMS etc! But then... go back above look at those numbers, even add your own... did I already say people appear to be blind?

Former LM player here. I mostly played by myself. Once I found out about DU, I've been watching it with great interest.

With respect to the networking problem:-
 
1. Large Population Total
2. Population Density Problem
 
It seems DU is designed (design intention) to be around EVE. I can't think of any other MMOs that invested into networking technology to the same degree (with 3d graphics). Bear in mind the reason for multiple shards is primarily number 2 and even then many mmos deliberately partition Total population via levelling zones, instances, game modes, quest hub bread crumbs and so on. Bear in mind large crowds in mmo combat are often a zergy mess and poor quality gameplay irrespective of performance meltdown too. The main problem is MMO as a genre has a USP arounding CONNECTING PLAYERS in high quality social interaction ways: Think of liking or following on facebook or twitter for example for social network. Trade is a primary means of this "There's No Catholic Or Protestant When Trade Is Being Conducted" is an old saying from days of yore for example.
 
So that is exceptional category and the virtual economy is what will result if the game has:-
 
1. Enough social groups
2. Enough complexity in the sink-faucet of valuable resources
3. Distance/Scarcity dimensions
4. Politics and Territory above this.
 
A lot of "mmorpgs" don't really make any sense. If you have economic pressures and incentives this fuels a lot of gameplay behaviour by individuals and groups. And that needs a lot of SCALING UP. Eg EVE. I think this simulation is a key component of virtual worlds: They must have designs that make more simulacra in gameplay behaviours emerging as they might in say historic epochs of human history at a high level. Obviously DU is a "what if...?" with humanity in the future beyond Earth and our own solar system and in other solar systems within the galaxy. Interesting if the simulation follows some of what we currently know and assume about large scale drivers of human group motivations and patterns.
, then add voxels to that networking scale. I'm surprised how BLIND people appear to be
And the other thing: I don't see a lot of voxel games but when you do see them and you see how creative they are, then that's a huge dimension for mmorpgs. Not just that but look at the above COMBINED with voxels by comparing game world sizes:-
 
Ultima Online - 55.9 km²
World of Warcraft - 80mi2
Asheron's Call - 500mi2
Guild Wars: Nightfall - 15,000mi2
The Lord of the Rings Online - 30,000mi2
(NOT AN MMO) Elder Scrolls Online - 62,000mi2
WWIIOL online uses a ½ scale map of Western Europe with 52,000 km2 (20,077 sq mi) of accurate terrain (800 m resolution satellite data).
Life Is Feudal - 441km2
 
Now look at DU:-
 
Dual Universe - ALIOTH ONLY: 45,238.93 km2
 

 
Now add to this... (still only Alioth...): Volume of physical planet Total = 1,150,346 km3
 
Bear in mind the volume of the Atmospheric Belt surrounding this physical volume (some of which will never be used oc) and then the amount of volume above this in Space radiating out used too. Does anyone have some info on the atmospheric radius of Alioth? You can see a thin layer clearly in the latest backer portal video.
 
This is where the VOXELS really shake things up as you can see purely using the simple crude comparison of world size AREA vs Volume.
 
In most mmorpgs there's tiny amount of volume for starters: Limited free-form flight and interaction in this dimension or else gradient rise and fall. I think some mmorpgs have swimming deep in seas/lakes. But overall the ground is texture and hence area interaction mostly.
 
Not only can players go up and down in locomotion the actual physical layer is useful for resources and building structures too with voxels.
 
Then add the space around the other planets and the total solar system, then add more solar systems... And I barely mentoned what sort of huge data on the voxel manipulation changes to the world as well as the number and diversity of constructs multiplying changing the landscape or spacescape too.
 
You can see that in theory, DU is really something else. Again EVE compares, but it's "empty space" (I really liked the theory behind their dust game linking but sadly it did not work in practice).
 
Let's come back to the advantages of SCALING PLAYER NUMBERS (if it's possible):-
 
With so much space, there needs to be lot of players for that space to make a tiny impact on it. That is to say, most mmorpgs, they are not complex interaction systems at all: Neither socially nor in game world interactions either.
 
It will be interesting to see if DU achieves high physical interaction that itself drives further social interaction and that drives  more of each and so on...
 
It's still early days so that may explain why many don't seem to twig: Another NMS etc! But then... go back above look at those numbers, even add your own... did I already say people appear to be blind?

Minor correction, star citizens server structure does not even compare to DU. It splits the world in instances, with a maximum of 40 players per instance. I'm not sure if this is currently in the game or still on their to do list. This might improve over time but they can't do what DU will do or what EVE does. 
 
 
 

EGS has two main modes - single player and multiplayer.  The single player is obviously offline.  The multiplayer mode is online, with over 1500 servers to choose from.  Some have as few as 4 people on the server, and the largest ones have up to 200-300 people on the server.  Each server has their own rules and scenarios, based on how the server admin sets it up.  The admin can set up each planet however they want, create points of interest for players to interact with, and set rules for each planet, with some being all pvp based, and others with set pvp planets and other pve planets.  I honestly think I like this approach better than a single shard universe, because it allows users to not just drive content in terms of how the civilizations are built, but also in terms of how the planets themselves are designed, how populated with wildlife and resources they are, etc.  I don't see anything like this in DU a of yet.
It's true that the single shard has the advantage in terms of networking and density overall.  It's definitely true.  However, for the above mentioned reasons, I think the single shard has some trade offs as well.
 
See my newly created thread on this subject where we can discuss this topic in more depth and not take away from the original intent of this thread.

@TheKoolBanana
 
You forgot to mention you are voicing your opinion here. You are not stating fact if only because EVE is a thriving community of tens of thousands of players of which roughly 20K players are online at any given time. DU is currently a concept for a game in development which holds great promise and possibilities but has yet to become a game. Just the forums and in game chat for the corp I am part of in EVE has more active players in it that in the entire DU community. There is several alliances in EVE with multiples of the total number of members of this forum as members.
 
Several public fleets I frequent will have between 60 and 100 pilots in fleet with several hundred watching the live stream for sometimes several hours on Twitch. And there is generally several of these fleets going on at the same time. DU will never have that because it will be a different game where these events would not work. Not saying that  is bad (or good), just that it's really apples and oranges. Saying an established game is/will be better that what at this time is a concept for a game in pre-alpha is pushing it.
 
There is people here who dislike EVE and that's fine, there is bitter vets who have no idea what goes on in the game now and that's fine too. Facts are quite clear though and while I certainly hope and expect DU to be a big one and likely the closest to EVE between all the 'contenders' it's still a very, very different game in a very early state of development.

Former EVE player here,
 
   I certainly don't advocate cloning EVE at all. However EVE is/was groundbreaking in terms of its economy because it is (apart from the artificial and inflationary infusion of ISK through ratting/incursions) a "real" economy. Absolutely everything is player made by raw materials that have to be mined for one way or another. Absolutely all the prices are set by players and the market as a whole. So if DU is aiming for a player-driven economy, similarities to EVE will necessarily develop. It would be foolish both to repeat the mistakes made in EVE and not to try to learn from what has been proven to work - and hopefully make it better.

I had played EVE on and off for a while, and I've gotta say it is a fun and very visually appealing game. The main reasons I'm not currently playing it are...
1: I've not a ton of time to play a new game for the next few weeks, prepping for major life events
2: I'm afraid it will consume my life
3: no one I know currently plays - MMO's don't hold my attention long unless I have friends there
4: not creatively stimulating until high levels of play
 
My main social group tends to follow whatever games my Fiancee and I play, and my Fiancee doesn't play Eve for reasons #2 and #4.
 
Dual Universe is a whole other beast however because it will be VERY creatively stimulating. The games that have the most staying power for me are either fun party games, "lose 48 hours" deep strategy games (talking about you Civ 4 and 5), or games in the sandbox genre. So DU is slated to have every feature I liked about Eve and Space Engineers without any of the features that make those games unattractive to me or hard to play. It won't be as punishing as a proper survival game with collision physics and horrendous bugs, it will be a more active play experience than Eve.
 
The way I see this game is that it is attracting the attention of players who have played similar games for the same reasons I find it attractive, it borrows from games that we like, while tempting us with the opportunity to shape this into our idea of a perfect scifi game. I've seen a great deal of Space Engineers players, Minecraft Players, Starwars Players, Landmark refugees, and even some WOW players check it out.

That is a very cool concept, damn I'm excited to see how it turns out and I'm not even affiliated! 
 

I've had "training".

You guys are OUT-THINKING YOURSELVES here.
 
Number 1: They're boot-strapping the development of the game in tandem with the growing population of players.
 
Think about it to make sense of what that statement means:-
 
DU is the "Civilization Building MMO": Where FORM = SCI-FI + FUNCTION = VOXEL GAMEPLAY are merged together.
 
That's the game! It is being built right now via the dev tech at NQ.
 
1) That is going to be huge huge gameplay creativity space. So do it.
2) That means safe spaces to advertise that you can just get on with building by finding a place in these things as per advertised (see the title again).
3) This core gameplay will be available SOONEST. This is proven whatever anyone wants to say eg pre-alpha early...
4) It will take time to mesh systems on top of this, a lot of time and iteration to get a balance.
5) The space taken by these safe places is TINY compared to how much MORE space/land there is elsewhere: Absolutely they're going to provide tons of space for people who just want to build. Relatively they're insignificant.
 
Personally I envision a day years ahead where these bootstraps are no longer needed: The whole player base will have developed player-emergent interactions that self-organize some accommodation or other for builders, OR/Same thing, everyone gets over their own hump and realizes DU will work just fine in whatever way you are interested in. Then and again these things could become some raging success story... and who knows where that will take us...

The Seed Ship will be designed to allow attaching your personal construct to it. You may stay attached and journey with the cluster or detach at any place along The Cluster's route. This might be a good colonization option for you or your small Org.

Hello, I am Novarkian, The intial founder of The Cluster.
 
The Cluster is a group of spacefaring people living on a perpetually growing Cluster (City Ship). The Cluster travels from system to system to gather resources and wealth. People living in The Cluster are of varying backgrounds and all specialties will be needed to sustain it. There will be boundless oportunities choosing to be a part of a moving society. Will you be part of The Cluster?
 
Please read more about The Cluster here and join us if you want to be a part of something awesome!
 
https://community.dualthegame.com/organization/the-cluster

Why everyone is asking for the resolution? It's PRE-alpha! I want a good game not a high res xD

When comes the VR-support?

I like it, thanks BlorgonSlayer!
 
My main motivation is, of course, personal play preference.  I want to play when I want to play, for as little or long as I wish, whatever time of the day I wish, without obligations to others to do what they want.  Now the market may define my actions, but that is because I want to maximize my personal profit for what I deem reasonable risk - not because some VP tells me to.  I spent close to 40 years in corporate America - not about to go back into a simulation of that.
 
All that said, an organization of freelance players, who help each other if and only if they feel like it, might fit my style.

The galaxy in DU is potentially vast, but only in theory.
 
NQ have clearly indicated that they want to limit expansion to a "manageable pace", which could very well imply that there simply won't be any destinations created outside of the Alioth system until such time as NQ want expansion to happen.
 
Each new system that's populated will require additional processing power to support, which brings additional operating costs. Having a 1000 systems active with only 1 player in each is not going to be cost-effective.

Hmmm.   OK.  I understand this isn't Eve, and isn't Space Engineers.  I love that its single shard, and REALLY love that there is no limit on construct size (unlike SE).  Guess I will have to play it and find out!

Step aside folks! I need mine too.

Just found the video release with the packs:
 
 

"Obsolescence" is the wrong term in this case, that refers to items that are superseded by new and improved designs. Obsolete items still work perfectly, there's just something better that can be used instead.
 
The OP seems to be talking about "wear and tear", which occurs through repeated use of a specific item, leading to it eventually breaking if it's not repaired or maintained.

T - 2 days
https://twitter.com/dualuniverse/status/970720787564056576
 
~ Merwyn

I found a couple of interesting ones in the last year:-
 
* Wolf and Spice: The economic discussions are fun. The Wolf character: First the translation is ve to English is very good as the articulation is very strong and the voice-actress is sincerely superlative conveying the wit, poise and sass of the character. I usually prefer listening in Japanese with English subtitles so this says quite a lot about how much I enjoyed the language in this one.
* Children Who Chase Lost Voices From Deep Below: The animation quality mainly an the imagery are all very arresting amd very high quality.
* Wolf Children: The story is charming about kids obviously with a fantasy twist, simple tales like this often work best I find.
* The Girl Who Leapt Through Time: Again the every-day-setting with solid animation of ordinary things, very satisfying.
* The Garden of Words: Felt the most satisfying visually and in terms of temp and pace: A small vignette of a story that could be one of those invisible stories that happens all the time.
 
I often find most anime tends to lose it's form and structure either story and/or aesthetic rules. So these above felt a bit like shining stars by comparison.
 
Alone or Lonely? One would tend to choose to be alone as opposed to ending up lonely. I prefer to be alone for example after dealing with large number of people, in a day!