Croomar

Actually, this is a precise point that has not yet been directly mentioned. Similar to real life, war can be an economic machine that drives entire empires and enterprises. If you look at the vast majority of business orgs in DU, they usually profit from war. The ship building orgs can likely sell higher quantities of war vessels. Transport and exploration is just another focus and the larger nations mostly plan on having their own industry to create vessels for a dedicated military. There are few orgs that actually revolve around building much else. And if all of these orgs we have in pre-alpha with their focus on war and protection persist throughout the testing phases, we will have a large warmongering playerbase around at release that will plans to work efficiently with their war industry. It's an economic aspect as well because the businesses will tag along with that industry if it's more profitable than building cargo freighters. And with an arsenal of destructive machines, you'd gain the power and the will to use them, that's where we reach the aspect of player willingness again.

In an ideal world, it would be the case that you leave those who don't want to fight out of your conflicts. In an ideal world. In a realistic setting, the vast majority of people won't give a shit if you're a non-pvp group. Pirates and raiders will attack whoever they want to and people will declare war on others because they want to. Sometimes, there might not even be another reason than saying "We can win against them". A simple test of strength is enough motivation for some. This game attracts exactly those who like PvP and large-scale wars, that's what this community is made up of. Sometimes people might also be victim of larger wars, colleteral damage in a sense. When larger factions battle it out and just try to destroy anything in a factions sector of influence, then even the people who aren't involved in that war will become victims. And then it doesn't matter how much space or other possible opponents there might be. People who only just want to build and create stuff will either have to join an org capable of protecting them or spend weeks or months to travel to a remote system that is not yet discovered by the majority of players.

So far in pre-alpha, the reason to declare war on somebody, whether it made sense or not, was because there were people or whole orgs you just didn't like. Perhaps because they compared you to unlikeable people in leaked chat logs, perhaps they spammed on your discord server, perhaps they tried to recruit members from your org, perhaps they insulted you or maybe you just don't like the way they like to play. All that is more than enough reason to declare war on somebody and raiding them. There are surely a lot of pragmatic reasons for war, but as ATM said, war will be there because people want it. That's likely going to be the main reason and people will find a pretext for that then.

Ja, damit kann ich mich auch identifizieren. Als ich in der Community aktiv geworden bin und meine Firma gegründet habe, habe ich auch alle meine Freunde angeschrieben, denen ich davor von DU erzählt habe. Immer mit dem Argument "Wenn du beitrittst landen wir auf Seite 6,5,4 etc." Ist aber auch schön das zu sehen, denke auch dass das jeder nachvollziehen kann.

Instead of leaving the topic alone and just stating my goodbye, I'd like to have a few words in this as well. Back when I joined the community, I was one of the people being contacted by Sakej99. He told me about Dual Secure when I told him about my plans for the game, leading a corporation and building ships better than the standard. At the time, Dual Secure and TVR were already the enemy of the whole community, which I had yet to fully realize. Instead of declining all offers, I replied that if he was interested, I could sho him my ideas. And Sakej actually did show genuine interest. He motivated me to start working on the models I have been thinking of for a longer time ever since seeing ODYs design ideas on the community page. And after showing him my first projects, which honestly weren't good, he encouraged me to go on and make more, and with time I got better and more creative with my models. I posted these designs I actually made for Dual Secure on the community portal and gained a whole lot of helpful feedback. These designs are the reasons Objective Driveyards got interested in me, and today I'm a director in a beautiful organization in which I found a lot of friends, response and fulfillment. It goes even further, because one of the designs made its way to an industrial business near my hometown that actualy offered me a job at some point (which I accepted). Through the whole story of TVR and MM, my standing in this community might be a lot different, who knows. But I know I'm not the only one affected by their actions. In fact, while I do support NQ's decision in every way and wish they keep up that kind of work in the future, it still saddens me how it had to come that the community lost an integral part of it - and even more that nobody realizes the actual loss yet, but instead celebrates it. The actions of TVR surely weren't comofortable for most and I, too, had my fair share of personal experience with MM. I also knew about about their background for the longest time by now, yet I stll appreciated having a common "antagonist" in the community. Finding somebody willing to fill that spot is not that just a nice occurence, it's rare to find an actual constellation like this. I was also glad when the Unity League emerged, because that gave opportunity to have a serious and common threat later in the game. With the deletion of UL, we're back to a grid of many smaller and bigger orgs in what can look like a battle royale at times. I certainly couldn't say this in the past, but this time, I have to agree with MM. He did get to entertain us in one way or another. And while I know for a fact that not everything is completely true the way he states it, I appreciate him showing a more human side for once. Although he's still a douche. I don't wish for anybody to lose their progress after they put that much time and effort in it. If you come back to DU, know that there are people who will appreciate it. Until then and good luck, Croomar

A good move of you to provide a place for people who have lost their org. There might be more in the future. Projects like yours have been created in the past and most of them either have or are still undergoing a change into a concrete entity that will have their impact in the game. I'm positive that just like them, you'll find your exact and unique purose as well and I don't think any past experiences will stop you from it. Good luck to you and your org.

Again and again I'm thinking that people who can make a single-shard game with this kind of server technology und persistence possible should have an easier time making moving parts possible. But that's probably not it, if NQ wanted, they could surely make it possible. At least, that's my guess. It's probably just difficult to make everything compatible with each other and takes time that might instead be used on more features. But as Falstaf said, who knows what's possible over the life time of DU. You can get a lot done within 2 years and the updates won't stop with Stargates coming in.

I believe that would be feasible as well, if not even quite easy. Procedual generation allows for quite a few options, maybe create high radiation planets only in systems with a white star that is especially energy rich, similar to the ones with gamma ray bursts. Toxic environments could be created if a system is especially gas rich, so generating gas clouds near the hazardous planet would make sense

The other day, I've been asked if there are uninhabitable planets. I responded we don't know yet, but the chances are quite low for something like that to appear. That's when I thought of some kind of permanent weather on life hostile planets, for example a corrosive or poisonous atmosphere or a planet with high radiation. Things that are simply always present in a planet's atmosphere might be feasible if a dynamic weather system is difficult to implement.

This is something that's been bothering me ever since I've learned of DU. The seemingly endless possibilities of the game are ultimately limited by the tools the devs can give you. More tools means more possibilities, and that's a good thing. But devs can only deliver so many tools, and let's consider elements as a part of these. The idea to have players create more elements increases the overall content you can find in the game and players are often able to come up with ideas that devs wouldn't initially think of. I'm all for player created tools. But yes, the problem is balancing. Nonetheless, I'd like to make an example coming from another game. Warframe has been one of the most succesful f2p games in the past years and attracted a huge playerbase. The devs try to deliver a steady flow of new content, but they, too, a limited to how much they can do. So they decided to include players in it. It initially started out in pretty much the exact way your second point is being described. The devs made a contest for a new enemy. It was very succesful because a large amount of players brang in a lot of creative ideas. Today, these enemies are a key component in regular gameplay. The winners of the contest got a reward of premium currency. Afterwards, they made a contest for skins. The winners got 40% of the premium currency with every skin sold. Then they made a contest for weapons, which was just as succesful. But every time the devs had a concept they had to program themselves. This wasn't really the effect they'd been hoping for, so they changed the system. They included the Steam workshop in it and allowed players to upload custom skins for the game's characters (Warframes). Players could then vote on which skin they'd like to see in-game and the devs just took the skins, implemented them in the game and set it up for players to buy with their steam wallet for real life currency (because of Steam's workshop policy). That way, the devs now have a steady flow of custom, player made content they don't need to check or programm much. So let's think about how NQ could adapt this. Similar to the Steam Workshop, NQ could set up a portal on their website to allow players to link the 3D models of custom elements they create. They could add requirements such as a name for the element or a description. But until that point, it's just a model that could be used in the game. Other players can view this portal and vote on elements they'd like to see in the game. NQ can then add the winner creations to the game in regular intervals. As for the stats of the element, there could be two ways to handle it, but in no case should players be allowed to programm the elements themselves. 1. NQ takes the most voted models, checks them and just fills in a pre-defined code for functionality and fitting stats. In that case, NQ can save at least the time (and money) on creating ideas and models for new elements. 2. Before a contest round starts, NQ researches what elements the game lacks, for example engines. They can go ahead and come up with a stat concept for these engines that they publish on the upload portal. Players can now design a fitting engine that will have these stats and functions that are pre-defined by NQ. In that case as well, players can't take everything from the devs, but they can at least help in the process and bring in their ideas. In the end, I believe the contest idea is a good way to go.

In another dev diary they mentioned you're able to use copy & paste for symmetry. I doubt they'll be working on a dedicated symmetry mode for a while

So if /r/dualthegame is abandoned and in bad shape, not moderated and largely filled with outdated information... I'm not a redditor, but please tell me what prevents us from opening another DU subreddit like /r/dualuniversegame? is it just to prevent cluttering or is it because nobody wants to moderate a subreddit?

No, they don't... I'm afraid you didn't get the joke

The seemingly "cheap" art is usually the best art. Where artistic skills can't distract from the content itself, the meaning of the work becomes clear all the better. And you can do a lot with MS Paint, believe it or not. I like to refer to Florkofcows who is one of the more popular and best rated artists in the current scene and does all his work with very simple drawings of sock puppets and text in Paint.

Ok, so maybe instead of all agreeing these are too many variables, which I can't really agree on, let's use the forums in a productive way and actually think about it a bit deeper. I can't see exactly how too many or too complex is a bad thing by itself. I do see however that some of them are rather unnecessary for gameplay in the end. Luminosity and noise are factors that I'd not necessarily need to see included. Noise doesn't need to be realistic in a game as long as it sounds well. In fact, realistic sound models in games are often really weird for a player at first and take time to get used to. Luminousity is a nice idea itself, but I don't think it enriches the game enough to make an effort to implement. It'd rather a nice gimmick for polish when different fuels with different heat ranges burn at different colors and make for different lighting effects. Stability would imo rather be an annoying aspect instead of a valuable one, although in terms of realism actually quite important. But I'd hate to have to think about what my cargo and components can handle when flying. Simmilarly, Flash hiders and noise dampeners on engines wouldn't be neccessary then as well. Maybe implement simmilar features to increase stealth aspects and make it more difficult to get scanned. In that case, simple upgrade modules for the elements would be enough. But with the features heat, compression, fuel type, acceptability and feed rate, a rather plain system could be improved into an enriching experience with different possibilities for all possible sectors, be it industry, design, racing, war or transport. How well can your fuel handle long distances with high heat? Could you increase it and make it explode when shooting an engine or fuel tank? Which fuel needs to be chosen for which tasks? These are all aspects that improve important parts of content for a majority of players, I'd love to see that. How much time would be needed to actually implement it is another question.

+1 for the idea. I don't believe we already have something like this. Since there are a bunch of nomadic orgs and there is obviously interest in them, your coalition might turn out to be quite useful to some, although I can also imagine that a few of them choose the nomadic style to stay independent. And while you have planned a lot already, I also see potential to further expand the idea. If you aim to provide protection, maybe think of ways you can quickly gather the scattered nomads from all over the systems. Maybe plan for a stargate network so different orgs can meet up. Perhaps even create a single Nexus that drifts through space like the nomads as well while giving opportunity to meet up regularly. All just food for thought, but I like the idea. Keep it up and good luck with your plans!

Don't they technically do that already? At least, that's how I interpreted the physical reward "Alpha Team Member Statue (male or female)" until now...

I thought about how to react to this. But you summed it up pretty well actually. Still... I havn't understood what exactly the topic is about as well.

This is honestly pretty good. You copied the different logos very precisely, they look almost exactly like the originals, only difference is the color. But in terms of shape, it's incredible. So I take it was at least partially automated? Can't imagine it being done by hand, although I couldn't tell. The last time I've been sewing something was 10 years ago.

To summarize what's been said before: Laws and agreements spanning over the whole community will with the biggest possibility not be a thing, there's a lot speaking against that. What I'd like to focus on however, is that laws inside orgs, territories and thus nations and alliances will likely become a standard. Then it's up to those alliances and nations to actively enforce their laws. A member of a nation should not be allowed to destroy property of other citizens. Maybe you can manage that using the RDMS, something like that has been stated before by NQ I believe. For alliances acting on multiple planets and territories with different orgs and maybe even multiple nations, law enforcement will be more important since then the RDMS would be able to protect small-scale stuff at most. In that case, the alliance has to provide the means to enforce laws and have its individual members follow them. With the stargate example, there needs to be enough protection for outside threats like pirates or enemy alliances, but through laws and law enforcement, an alliance's members should not be able pose a threat to the stargate. Other laws may be to prohibit players from killing each other, damage property of other members, restrict them from taking certain territories that are needed for other projects, prohibit corporations to engage in trade with enemy factions and / or known pirate groups, enforce them to pay a set tax (might be handled with RDMS as well), ban citizens from entering warzones or military grounds and regulate harmful interactions with certain people, for example pressuring new players into joining an org or something. A nation or alliance that sets up these laws will need to enforce them as well. Usual methods would be to seize control over player assets, for example taking their resources or ship if they don't follow the law, financial fines, especially in the economic sector, revoking alliance / nation protection or other advantages, outlawing certain players and orgs for free hunt, bounties and maybe even imprisonment will be a thing in some form.

Although I'm fairly sure many of you know already, I'd like to point out that life can indeed survive in outer space. Since survival, life and existence aren't synonymous it doesn't necessarily help the topic, but in terms of sci-fi, we can make something out of it. Tardigrades are able to survive in the vacuum of outer space and under pressure six times greater than that on the highest pressure on earth (deepest part of the Mariana Trench) and temperatures from 1K to 400K. These little critters are practically immortal, they can also survive radiation hundreds of times greater than the dose lethal to humans and they can go 30 years without food and water. They can live anywhere on earth, including volcanos, Antarctica and even underwater and in the deep sea. To be fair, they enter a phase of paralyzed / dried-up / cryosleep kind of state when in extreme situations, so they aren't essentially alive in the deepest sense. But if life like this exists on earth already, a science-fiction universe can create an exo-planet in which evolutionary processes are just slighlty more advanced (slightly in terms of evolutionary scales) that bring forth similar, extremely resistant creatures that have adapted to life in extreme environments and may just hold some of their organic functions similar to how whales stop their breathing underwater. The concept of the space whale is overall not too unrealistic.

Let's make DU the spreadsheet emulator 2.0! Ok but apart from that, markets are localized, which means there is no global auction house or something. The proposal with market units isn't too far-fetched, the problem is that it uses Quanta instead of fictional points. That means, members can take stuff out but don't necessarily need to fill other stuff in since they can get Quanta from all possible other sources but not just the org's market unit. However, you can still get the money of your members that way for personal use. Which is again, where the next problem arises, because when there's money in the market unit and you want to enable your members to store their resources in it by selling them to that market unit, a member could potentially abuse the system and sell a lot of worthless trash the org currently doesn't need or mabe just more of something than is needed of a selected resource. You are left with no money in the storage but a lot of trash and other players may not even be able to put something else in anymore then. However, I'm positive that with multiple market units that are customized in the right way, this potential for abuse could be reduced to a minimum. Maybe set up a market unit for only copper, one for only iron and one for only diamond and just fill it with a calculated amount of money and only when you need the resource available in the market unit then. Maybe you can even restrict it from either selling or buying resources if you need only one option. However, that wouldn't have much in common with the point system anymore.

Maybe we should also ask first if it makes any sense to own an entire planet. If the numbers are accurate and Allioth really has 50,862 hexagonal tiles, we can calculate the rough surface area of the planet. NQ stated that hexagonal tiles are 1km in diameter. With the formula for a hexagon's surface area A = 3/2 * √3 * a² , we can calculate that each hexagon has a surface area of roughly 0.65 km². With 50,862 * 0.65 km², we get 33060 km². Let see, a Battlefield map is usually around 2km², Planetside's largest map is 64km² and Arma 3 has a map with 270km². You can fill the small Battlefield maps with lots of junk pretty well. When playing Planetside, you'll notice that there are vast, empty landstrips between the single stations. And Arma has whole regions of empty nothingness between many small settlements and bases. Let's say a bigger org in the future of around 1 thousand players manages to claim just half of the planet, since there's also a lot of water on Allioth. What would they do with 16500km² of territory? That is still too much for a thousand players to properly populate, so you either mine all the resources in a matter of months or you try build an infrastructure for a few dozen settlements or cities, again with landstrips of nothingsness in between them. So, if the calculations are right, what would you do with a whole planet? Own it, invest resources into the TUs just to say you can own the planet but leave it uninhabitet to the largest portion?

A pic of Kanna in the very first post you make? Way to lure out the Otakus in the community. I know for a fact that there's quite the amount of them hiding here. As the others, I welcome you to the community, hope you have a nice stay and find some people to play and talk with. But please tell me more about "Dolphin Waxing".

True words, my organization sets in quality over quantity in terms of members (and products). And that actually attracts a lot of people as well, we are probably one of the few orgs that have to repeatedly deny applications. And more often than not, it's the persistent ones who win the challenge, which is why I'd recommended to keep actively on it. But you seem to be a reasonable person and I'm sure you'll find your way to do things.