le_souriceau

Yeah, this.  Scammy games, IMO, are games which just intended to take peoples' money and nothing else.  I think NQ genuinely did have plans for DU, and are even now still trying to make it work.  If it were my business, though, I would also be putting a lot of effort into a replacement revenue stream at this point and it looks like that's what they are doing.  It's hard to fault it even if it is sad, from our POV, that NQ the company doesn't want to put 100% into DU and then go down with the ship.
 
 
Same.  I'm still playing DU even today as my 6 month subs start to expire and most of my characters start to go away.  It was fun and I got my money's worth out of it.
 

Even the really successful developers can succumb to the blockchain BS it seems:  https://venturebeat.com/games/ccp-games-raises-40m-for-new-triple-a-web3-game-in-the-eve-universe/

I have yet to see a genuine blockchain based app that didn't also have a trusted entity somewhere in the value chain, undermining the whole proposition but so long as there are idiots prepared to put in money for buzzword compliant blue sky projects the crypto world will keep retrying this over and over and over and over.  I wish NQ and CCP luck with this but in the words of Dragons' Den "I won't be investing, I'm out" ...

I understand that perspective 100% -- and can't really defend the integrity of the company, overall.
 
That said...the definition of "scammy" has sadly evolved in even the last few years.
 
For all their faults, NQ spent 8 years trying to make this game. It was absurdly ambitious, poorly funded from the start (relative to the genre), but they did invest time in an effort to make a game.
 
I think that effort is still worth some level of respect, especially for the devs that invested so much time for relatively little reward (as game devs are notoriously underpaid). 
 
There are "play to earn" MMOs (like this one) that really epitomize what "scam" means in the modern game industry. 
 
NQ is far from perfect and hardly the most honest company or a company with great PR / communication skills...but I don't think it's a full on "scam" compared to many of the seedier players in this industry today. They could have spent a ton less effort to make a lot more money if they really wanted to be like that.
 
Not saying I trust NQ or view them as a company with a lot of honesty, but I'd learn toward "they tried but didn't have the experience" versus "this was all a scam from the start". 
 
Of course...for all I know, NQ's next project is some sort of similar web3 / NFT / play to earn BS -- NQ's leadership hasn't been shy about embracing these silly concepts...so I guess we'll see...? 

Well, its what some people seen in one way or another for years (with more evidence or less, relying on gut feeling, experience with game industry), some were better in formulating it, then others. All this discussions, about economy, wipes, population. At core it was about is NQ to be believed or not (obviously - not).
 
Early whistleblowers, like Blaze, had it hard, with more conformistic players attacking them.
 
Now its pretty clear to almost everyone, but some super die-hard fanatics. 
 
 

Well, its what some people seen in one way or another for years (with more evidence or less, relying on gut feeling, experience with game industry), some were better in formulating it, then others. All this discussions, about economy, wipes, population. At core it was about is NQ to be believed or not (obviously - not).
 
Early whistleblowers, like Blaze, had it hard, with more conformistic players attacking them.
 
Now its pretty clear to almost everyone, but some super die-hard fanatics. 
 
 

This tho creates new assumptions, about how NQ resources used between DU and this "new project". Major point of concern.

This game never even made it to beta in anything other than name. For all intents and purposes this game is still in Alpha.

NQ be like:  "Ummm... sure, territory warfare is a concept we've talked about...  Roadmap? LOL.. Where we are going we don't need roads.... We might introduce power requirements at some point possibly... Sorry not sorry the collision detection broke all your ships... again... We are the Metaverse company... Avatar PvP? Yeah, nah... LOL...  In the meantime, have a pointless floating robot and purple voxels... 3D Blog tool goes brrrrrr....  Oh noes, you're going to have to refactor your Lua just a couple more times now... promise....   Wipe? What? No, we'll not be wiping again... But can't exactly promise we won't have to wipe again... "

But at least we got an definite answer to something for a change.

That aged well ...

More importantly. none of the people who actually play the game were impressed either.  Organising and preparing for that sort of a fight is not a trivial and stress-free task and when the final result is both sides agreeing that they can't fight each other successfully because of the game then that's another huge fail.  For me these types of fights were the only reason I was coming back and it's hard to see that there will be many more in the near future when they end like this, would you want to put in the hours and suffer the stress for that result?

So.. The game is failing even as a tech demo for their voxel technology, since there is hardly anyone willing to play any more.
And the last ditch effort to get anyone to play is F2P? How is that going to work in a game where both active and inactive constructs (left behind by hit-and-run F2P players) will lead to increased server cost?
 
And what about people with unused DAC/long term subscriptions?

今更？！！ 　As we say in Japan, "Ima sara?"..... Oh, so *now* we're down to a double digit player base they are talking about monetization?
Another one we use in situations like this is...
後の祭り! Ato no matsuri..... meaning, "the festival is already over..."

Microtransactions with the current population is going to be pretty much the death throes of DU. There is no way MTs can raise useful amounts of cash with these numbers. Unless MTs stands for Mega Transactions.

Yeah, I meant that its not new info (obviously), just wanted to emphasize, that DU future is now not about actually DU, but how it can be integrated in something else. 
 
 
I think what they can do realisticly (beyond all metablablabla) -- is to create some sort system from DU tech, allowing people to run their own servers or kinda rooms, boosted with access to dev tools of building terrain and other stuff, ability to add new assets of all sorts, etc. Likely even monetize content (with commision).
 
So, overall, it can end up like Second Life on ultra-steroids.
 
Tricky question tho is the same -- how to balance costs.
 
 
 
 
 

Its little bit trickier. Depends on who you ask.
 
If you ask players who expected something even remotely on level of EVE, player-driven galactic opera so to say -- at this threshold game as dead as your egyptian mummy. 
 
If you ask someone who are mostly for "Landmark in Space" and comfortably enjoying their stuff on level of large Minecraft server (as you mentioned above) -- game for them is totally alive. And they are right, inside their framework.
 
This why we have sometimes arguments and lots of passive-hostility in these talks. Because people speaking pretty much about different planes of existence.
 
 

Its little bit trickier. Depends on who you ask.
 
If you ask players who expected something even remotely on level of EVE, player-driven galactic opera so to say -- at this threshold game as dead as your egyptian mummy. 
 
If you ask someone who are mostly for "Landmark in Space" and comfortably enjoying their stuff on level of large Minecraft server (as you mentioned above) -- game for them is totally alive. And they are right, inside their framework.
 
This why we have sometimes arguments and lots of passive-hostility in these talks. Because people speaking pretty much about different planes of existence.
 
 

Its little bit trickier. Depends on who you ask.
 
If you ask players who expected something even remotely on level of EVE, player-driven galactic opera so to say -- at this threshold game as dead as your egyptian mummy. 
 
If you ask someone who are mostly for "Landmark in Space" and comfortably enjoying their stuff on level of large Minecraft server (as you mentioned above) -- game for them is totally alive. And they are right, inside their framework.
 
This why we have sometimes arguments and lots of passive-hostility in these talks. Because people speaking pretty much about different planes of existence.
 
 

Of course. I absolutely agree with you. Every game attracts its playerbase. There is a reason why all the big orgs since 2016 have collapsed in DU and moved on. Because the pillars of the game have not convinced. You can also just ask around who plays DU with friends. Or why that person no longer does today. 
 
Today, the game will attract other players. Whether the "Landmark in Space" player will be enough to pay money on a monthly basis I don't know. The moment you consider the removal of planetary mining as an evolvement, I just question that it has done the game any good. It was also put right that 200 tiles does not automatically mean 200 new players, but accounts. Who the owner of these accounts is can now be speculated. But it doesn't seem to be the Steam players, as they show a downward trend.
 
But to find a conclusion here: My point, however, still stands. The raids in WoW are, among other things, a criterion for how you measure it. What would be the equivalent in DU? I would say the marketplace and its offerings. If you can't find (high tier) things, then in my eyes you have too few players to cover the economy. 

I don't really agree, that they've had updates isn't the same thing as developing the game. What real features were added in 1.1 and 1.2? It's 5+ months after release now...clearly it isn't enough. Why would anyone think that 1.3 is going to be a big feature...?
 
We're talking about one single PvE mission when having PvE content over 5 months after release for an MMO is not exactly something to celebrate when the expectations from every other product in this genre is that this is standard.
 
I don't view NQ's slow and minor updates as real development...but I'll agree that's entirely subjective and it's up to players to decide if their new skins and one new mission is enough to grow the game. I don't see it. 
 
 
Except that DU hasn't had more than 1,000 concurrent players on Steam ever...its active player count has cratered since release down to barely over 100 people a day!
 
There's an ocean of difference between DU and a game like PUBG or EQ. Those games have had some level of scale in their life, DU hasn't. Even NQ's CEO describes DU as a "moonshot". 
 
There's a huge, huge difference between "doomsaying" -- declaring something without any evidence -- and DU, where there's no objective evidence to indicate actual player growth. 
 
Occupied territory count is a far worse metric than Steam stats because of what I've already explained -- the only metrics tell you anything for a subscription product are churn rate and number of subs. Steam stats are the closest thing to churn rate we can see because it measures DAUs -- territory counts do not. A few hundred new players every few weeks is really, really bad even if you assume a conservative churn rate based on known metrics. That's not growth. 
 
We're talking about a game that as I'm writing this has 19 people playing it on Steam. That's what death looks like. 
 
There's more people playing 2015's "Corgi Warlock" on Steam than DU, an MMO that's not been out a year. That's not a growing, alive game. 

Its little bit trickier. Depends on who you ask.
 
If you ask players who expected something even remotely on level of EVE, player-driven galactic opera so to say -- at this threshold game as dead as your egyptian mummy. 
 
If you ask someone who are mostly for "Landmark in Space" and comfortably enjoying their stuff on level of large Minecraft server (as you mentioned above) -- game for them is totally alive. And they are right, inside their framework.
 
This why we have sometimes arguments and lots of passive-hostility in these talks. Because people speaking pretty much about different planes of existence.
 
 

Its little bit trickier. Depends on who you ask.
 
If you ask players who expected something even remotely on level of EVE, player-driven galactic opera so to say -- at this threshold game as dead as your egyptian mummy. 
 
If you ask someone who are mostly for "Landmark in Space" and comfortably enjoying their stuff on level of large Minecraft server (as you mentioned above) -- game for them is totally alive. And they are right, inside their framework.
 
This why we have sometimes arguments and lots of passive-hostility in these talks. Because people speaking pretty much about different planes of existence.
 
 

x5 bit too generous, but its anyway dead game numbers fo MMO.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember MMO in gaming history that ever recovered from concurrent low hundreds and lived long and happly. Even low thousands usually goner numbers.

And I envy you that experience, because judging from how many left that is not what the majority of players have experienced.

Wrong. 
 
First, it helps people that are interested in the game -- they deserve to know if the developer charging them month-to-month is actually focused on the game. 
 
Second, it helps people that are already subscribed...NQ is clearly saying "we're working on other things", they just aren't keen on announcing it in places that most gamers see. People have every right to know what they're paying for and if DU is NQ's main priority, because the actual evidence sure doesn't indicate it is. 
 
Third, I'm not obligated to "help or get out of the way" (as if a post that no one reads is somehow "getting in the way" lol). If you disagree with my opinion, fine...you're free to articulate your opinion and explain your reasoning, too. 
 
But you aren't lord of the forum that gets to brand opinions or observations they don't like as "trolling".
 
To me, trolling people is attacking people personally instead of discussing the topic or focusing on opinions about the game.

We have been waiting for more content (actual pillar type content) for something like 4+ years now.
And that is why most of the veterans are frustrated with NQ, and no longer give 'balanced' feedback.

Haha, i guess old timers can enjoy contextual irony (of you making this topic), like meme intended, but...  I guess we already at stage when it doesn't matter. Most interested people in such page proverbially "dead".

Damn. I visited it the other day, incredible work.
Indeed, I reckon you might actually have  more L cores than paid subscribers still fully active in the entire game.