Kurosawa

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

Why would you shoot people that have no interest in pvp, sound a bit weak and pathetic, are you projecting your carebearness on to PvE players. there is plenty of room for everyone but perhaps the pvp's are to afraid to actually risk something ?

Lol its not like a Wallet Hostage Negociation where they can hold our money hostage. The truth is we can walk away any time we want. This situation is more like NQ is threatening Suicide and we are talking them down from the ledge they are threatening to jump off of.
 
Deckards like "We dont barter with our lives" while hes moving closer to falling off the edge and its like im just trying to save you from yourself bro. Back away from the ledge and NQs like "the time for talkings over its going to happen you better get ready to clean it up".

Why can't we just get a menu and store our BP of all kinds there?
Even in WoW I can look at hundreds of mounts or pets in an overview and use them as needed. There are no mounts standing around everywhere....

We don't need any more Quanta departures, what we really need is game content. Many players, myself included, just want to build - so why do I need quanta? Quanta has already been introduced for schematics as a constraint, as well as taxes being brought into the game as another constraint. Why should even more paternalism be added to the game if no game content can be created with it?
The energy system can be a lot of fun neutrally and can also offer great design possibilities depending on the implementation. However, if it becomes like a tax and penalty for players, more players will leave the game.

Neither of these perspectives are interesting or useful...seems like we're being mean for no reason.
 
Yes, people care about aesthetics in a building game. Big surprise. It's up to NQ to add function, not players. The cities are empty because people invested the time to make something interesting despite the lack of function provided by NQ...not simply because players decide to focus on aesthetics over function as if there's oh so much "function" in this game to explore. 
 
PvP is a part of the game. Some people like PvP and there's nothing wrong with that. You aren't smarter if you prefer to do activity A in a video game instead of activity B...you'd think that would be super obvious. 
 
If you don't like how people play the game they paid for...there's this thing called "single player" you should Google...otherwise it really isn't any of your business what people enjoy in their game or why. 

You have two options,

copy this including "::" 
::pos{0,2,13.2441,170.1175,-0.0002}
And open local chat and paste it there and send to chat. After that, the coordinates will become a yellow active link, then RMB and set the route.
 
The second option is simpler and more adequate. Copy this include "::"
::pos{0,2,13.2441,170.1175,-0.0002}
And in the game just press ALT + P the route will be set automatically (the main thing is dont use at this time commander's seat)

I always try to be open minded during these updates but each update makes less and less sense. I've been playing this game for quite some time now and the way game currently stands I can't even make fuel. None of my territories have uncommon ore all of a sudden. The only way to find uncommon ore would be to get a new territory but I cant do that because it costs too much. The most basic goal you can have in this game is making fuel and I can't do that. I didn't loose enough from territories you yanked to complain about others lost much more than me but I will say that was a really shitty thing to do to your player base.  The mining calibration is the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed and the only thing worse than that is how often you expect us to do it. The amount of ore we get from these auto miners is sad and the fact that multiple ore types aren't minable from one tile to the next at least in my experience so far. I can only find T1 ore on my tiles and even that is a very small amount. Your updates have one or two good things and the rest are horrible things that out shadow the good things. You made asteroid mining so tedious its not worth doing. Ore needs to be plentiful and its not it never was. 1 mil per tile per week is insane, there's no way I can mine enough to pay for that so its not even sustainable. It's like you put the game in a great recession and I don't get that. If you're trying to flush out single/small group players, I'm pretty sure this is going to work because your making it too difficult to do anything. 

We’re in agreement. A hybrid of the two was a good idea. But dropping the ball on one just leaves you with a bad copy of something else. But if you had to choose, a Second Life reboot is a better opportunity than an Eve reboot given the current state of the market, the age/condition of those franchises, and the standout feature of DU (the voxel engine.)  

I've been thinking about this a lot, after rage-quitting over Demeter. How did DU end up so far removed from what was described on Kickstarter - what we thought we were getting, or what we had in alpha and early beta?
 
It occurred to me there is an observable pattern in NQ's dev decisions:
 
Problem #1: Fresh after launch. Players are setting up advanced factories too quickly. 
 
Instead of leaving basic manufacturing alone, or just auto-installing the new schematics for all players for the first couple of tiers, or coming up with more elegant solutions that extend end-game content without messing up existing player effort, like adding costlier tiers with higher specs, or any other solution that let players keep the factories we had built, nope. NQ bricked everyone's work completely. All the time invested in setting up our factories, layouts, linkages, was wiped. Unsurprisingly, a tonne of players leave.
 
Some of us stayed, not realising the culture at NQ had now been set for the next big challenge...
 
Example #2: Underground tunnels are causing performance issues.
 
The problem with mining wasn't that it was boring. That was a bad excuse. Players had already proposed the solution in the old voting system - a gem mechanic. If it's so boring, which is it still used on asteroids? Underground mining was about system O/H. It could easily have co-existed with surface mining. But instead of, say, writing a crawler routine that decays old tunnels when there's no player in proximity - which totally makes sense, and adds more interesting gameplay (i.e.: get buried alive if you AFK underground, caves collapsing...) - or wipe-on-claim, or just randomly propagating new dirt, or cellular automata, or new ore, or a bunch of other ideas, NQ reached for the hammer again and wiped all terrain, wiped all scans, wiped all underground mining, took away all our work finding ore deposits, buried our bases, and offered a tokenistic excavation request system that was slow, simplistic, under-resourced, and didn't consider 'add earth'. There were a dozen other ways to solve the problem, without creating new problems, and without losing so many players.
 
Next comes Panacea...
 
Example #3: The game engine still can't handle rendering too many constructs at once.
 
Here's where we are now. Instead of waiting for the upcoming salvage mechanic to wash out, or taxing constructs, or height limits, or larger static core sizes and better alignment between cores (this would enable better LOD since players wouldn't need multiple L statics janked together to build a base), or otherwise improving the actual engine, it feels like NQ are reaching for the hammer again, and not the scalpel. The Panacea announcement (here: https://www.dualuniverse.game/news/panacea-update-added-to-roadmap) brings the following change:
 
"Organization construct ownership (construct slots): a new way of assigning available construct limits to organizations."
 
It took ~2 mths to max out construct management talents to get enough cores to build a large base. That meant surviving without training any other talents, which meant sacrificing in-game money (refining skills) and time (like ship and movements speed). It was a full month just waiting for the final level of the advanced specialisation. Now, it sounds like NQ are going to nerf those skills, reduce the number of constructs available, while also potentially forcing many players to demolish parts of their bases to get under a new cap. There are going to be a lot of pissed off people. Again. 
 
At the heart of all of these problems is a single truth: a prevailing attitude at NQ that the player's effort, creativity and ingenuity is disposable. 'Kicking down the sand castle is good, because it forces them to rebuild it.' This attitude is implied by the oft-repeated analogy that DU is a bunch of toys in a sandbox. The toys/sandbox metaphor is not only directionless - not a great dev strategy - it is also condescending. It trivialises the elegance and art of what players do in DU. DU is sculpture, coding, architecture and engineering. And it is this artfulness that attracted players early on. It drove the economy - creating demand for manufacturers and miners, in turn promoting space traffic. But best of all it attracted more people - the no.1 dependency of the whole ecosystem. The more our creativity is enabled - not by capping our number of cores, but by finding ways to give us MORE cores - the more free advertising the game generates for itself on video, streaming and social media sites.
 
Until NQ begin cherishing the time spent by players, all our creations, as much as we each cherish them ourselves, they will continue to impose collateral damage with every release. The very worst part of this pattern isn't even the dwindling number of committed players - which is bad. The worst part is, the original vision of enabling unbounded creativity was good, if only it hadn't been speared 5 minutes after launch. DU could have been bigger than 'Second Life.' (For those who never played Second Life, at it's peak it had 1 million active players and turned over $130m a year after inflation - with zero PvP.) Instead, the "player generated content" part of DU is incrementally nerfed, and DU is turning into nothing more than a shelter for EVE refugees.
 
There are many who may still return to DU if NQ start showing some care and respect for the players' time, creativity, and ingenuity. But that means not taking a hammer to everything, every time the devs face a challenge.
 
Use a scalpel to make changes - and preserve what players have built.
 
[EDIT: I’ve excluded a 4th example of hammer vs scalpel, being the screen tech API. For now the HTML/SVG nerf appears to be on hold. In this case, again, due to issues with the rendering of HTML/SVGs NQ was preparing to take the hammer to all the work done by players on screens, and many common LUA scripts, rather than surgically parsing problem tags. Like core caps, this is still TBA.]

That is an straw man argument since nobody argued against PvP.
 
The argument was always against making PvP more importation then building or any of the other 6 pillars, in a game that was sold as "make your own game" and clearly had a focus on persistent open world building in the kickstarter. I.e. make the game you sold us.
 
But the simple truth is that NQ sucks at game design for both builders and PvPers..
 

wiping the servers solves nothing, casual player will always be behind those that are more dedicated or organizations, as it is suppose to be. just like new player will have less then one that is 1,2,3 years old.
 
key is it doesn't matter what others have, focus on what you have and can do and have fun.
 
but i agree, with the sentiment, the game sucks, i still come back from time to time, but now the game is even more like a second job, where you pay a subscription to be part of it...
 

wiping the servers solves nothing, casual player will always be behind those that are more dedicated or organizations, as it is suppose to be. just like new player will have less then one that is 1,2,3 years old.
 
key is it doesn't matter what others have, focus on what you have and can do and have fun.
 
but i agree, with the sentiment, the game sucks, i still come back from time to time, but now the game is even more like a second job, where you pay a subscription to be part of it...
 

That sounds like NQ: Stop playing DU the wrong way! That's not going to happen. It's an open world game. Everybody plays it his own way. If you try to force players into another playstyle than they will find workarounds or leave the game.

Two pages in, and no one can answer this...because there is no answer. 
 
Even if a wipe could magically fix the economy....so what? How would that actually improve DU in any meaningful way?  
 
You'd still be stuck calibrating miners or slow-boating missions. Most players would still avoid PvP. The game would still be years from anything close to 'feature complete', which is infinitely more of an issue than the economy being "broken".  
 
DU is a game that currently lacks depth -- resetting it doesn't fix that. If anything, it would set it back. For those that believe a wipe will actually improve the game, I invite you to answer the quoted question...what would a wipe actually achieve? 

There are a lot of countries where employers can fire emploees at will with pretty much no reason. Contracts that prevent it are a double-edged sword. Employees are bound to them as well and can't terminate it within a given cancelling period without penalty. Implementing such real-world mechanics into an MMORPG would not only turn players into org slaves but also prevent them from leaving the org whenever they want. Thus, be careful what you ask for.
 
I actually don't see the problem. Check the reputation of an org before you join and if you feel treated unfairly than leave it. It's simple as that.
 
And in regards to your obsession with socialism/communism: What you ask for is irl reather typical for socialist countries.

Ehh...
 
Him being killed was as he said so himself, just the drop that made the bucket overflow. Did you all just skip reading most of the post where he details all the problems and why he is leaving?
 
Fact is that 0.23 made many players leave, and everything points to Demeter having the same effect. And no amount of putting blame on players and saying 'git gud' is going to save this game.

What does unrealistic expectations mean?
The game itself didn't want to offer rules per se, but to give players complete freedom in how to play DualUniverse. complete player-driven economy and co. There were no schematics or taxes, so you didn't need Quanta, but had to trade with players yourself. No matter if a ship or a voxel template, you just paid in ores. What was good about the system? Exactly, you could dig up ores whenever you wanted. There was no time limit neither in hours, days or weekly cycle. You could just log in and play.
Currently, however, in order to play, you have to play some mandatory content, unless you mine your previous possessions and move back to Sanctuary. Alternatively, you mark your territories as HQs, but then you can't use the industry without owing taxes. Meaning, without these mandatory contents, one's game is slowed down tremendously, worse, once you enter the hamster wheel, you have to run, run, run or you go back for a break to recover.
At the moment, if you want to play relaxed, just stay on sanctuary, set up your 4-5 MiningUnits there and build what you want with T1, you also manage to exchange T1 for other T-ore at the market. However, everything then in very slow play. I think a lot of players are now just bothered that a bit of that freedom has been taken away from them that drew you into the game in the beginning.
 

This is a great example of "push" design -- you're being forced to do something boring and monotonous so that you can pay upkeep and not lose your stuff.
 
It's all stick, no carrot. Don't pay taxes, lose your stuff. Don't calibrate, lose ore income, maybe to the point you can't pay taxes. There's no reward, just maintenance and punishment.
 
They actually did something amazing in turning the mole simulator into something even more soul-crushing and shallow.  
 
With MUs, owning territory isn't optional, it's fundamental for anyone that wants ore income. Therefore, the heavy-handed maintenance loop is also fundamental. 
 
Taxes would be easier to deal with if there were ample options for paying them -- more than one extremely extremely boring mission type and daily calibration chores. It should feel like players actually have choices, not that they are playing the game according to a script NQ creates. 
 
If they don't fire the game design interns making choices like "weekly taxes" and "calibration mini-game" I don't see why they are even bothering trying to push to release...because as harsh as we alpha players can be, players will be more harsh come release. Only they won't waste time whining on a forum like me, they'll cancel their sub and never come back. 

Working around bad game design using external solutions, does not improve the game or make more people want to play.

The combination of weekly taxes with daily calibration is killer -- when people are spending more than 10% of their time on mini-games, something is wrong. 
 
What's scary to me is that NQ doesn't seem to understand the purpose of mini-games in game design. It isn't as a crutch to replace major gameplay elements lost when you removed digging ore out of the ground. 
 
Mini-games are meant to be fun diversions with little impact to the main game. You shouldn't be constantly required to play a damn mini-game. Arguably, you shouldn't be required to play a mini-game at all. In DU, the mini-game doesn't break up the monotony, it is the monotony. 
 
I know it's harsh, but sometimes I feel like DU was designed by a game design intern...there's just no way an experienced game designer would think this is a good idea. 

I place elements as close as the build system will legally allow me to do for obvious reasons. And if NQ suddenly starts to punishing me for doing that, then that is their problem to fix and not mine.

Hello fellow Noveans! This is your friendly neighborhood coder, Nikolaus (Ephranor#8746), here with yet another big update to the DU Factory Generator:
 
https://tvwenger.github.io/du-factory-generator/latest/
 
Given a set of items to build, this tool will determine a factory plan from raw ores to the final products. The factory is designed to support the production rates of all intermediate industries. Therefore, this is a factory plan that will maximize production efficiency even after production interruptions.
 
Some new features in version 4.0:
Support for talents! Calculate ore values of produced items Add some missing items Minor bug fixes and performance improvements   Give it a go and let me know what you think! If you have any questions or problems, please let me know. Links to the Github repository and Discord server are on the bottom of the website.
Happy building!

I was shocked from the beginning that the ground did not regenerate over time I knew this would end up being a problem and in the end rather than fix it they took the cheaper way out I’m so disappointed in the detection this last patch took us I just wish they would scrap this I’m finding it a Paine in the ass two even be able two build anymoor it’s not fun geting so little amount of ore this is not fun anymore two me I just loved the building in this game now it’s just two time consuming 
and even if I wanted two build a pvp ship and trie that I’m not spending a month or moor two lose a ship it may be time two just try find somting else that fills my creative side voide that landmark left me but now DU is heding in the same direction at this rate I dont see this game ever being good maybe star base can do better