Cabana

or this:

 
and this:

Check this out: 

I thought you meant it as a joke... but after googling it, I was taught better.

I know her, she’s the one that designed
a stadium to look like a vagina.  

In order to find next Zaha Hadid or Frank Gehry in DU we created a voxelmancer competition total prize not less than five billion quantas (5b). Details will be published soon here on this thread.

One of the distinguishing characteristics of a work of Voxel art is that it serves no practical, material end, but is an end in itself; it serves no purpose other than contemplation and the pleasure of that contemplation is so intense, so deeply personal that a Novean experiences it as a self-sufficient, self-justifying primary and, often, resists or resents any suggestion to analyze it: the suggestion, to him/her, has the quality of an attack on his identity, on his deepest, essential self.
 
To understand the nature and function of Voxel art/architecture, one must understand the nature and function of concepts.
 
A concept is a mental integration of two or more units which are isolated by a process of abstraction and united by a specific definition. By organizing his/her perceptual material into concepts, and his/her concepts into wider and still wider concepts, Novean is able to grasp and retain, to identify and integrate and unlimited amount of knowledge, a knowledge extending beyond the immediate concretes of any given, immediate moment.
 
When one learns to translate the meaning of a voxel art into objective term, one discovers that nothing is as potent as voxel art in exposing the essence of a Novean's character. A voxel artist/architect reveals his naked soul in his work and so, gentle Noveans, shall we see new Zaha Hadid or Frank Gehry in DU?

Never underestime a power of a passionate man. The great creators — the thinkers, the artists, the scientists, the inventors — stood alone against the men of their time. Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won.

From the front page ... 
Create entire cities, giant space stations, massive warships,
underground bunkers or… flying cars!
it is a sandbox - you do what you do within the rules allowed. No mention of evolution - just building.
 
I am glad you put the smiley face in ... because PvP is not needed for civilizations - what is needed is a common goal (which may be a threat). Probably the closest right now to a civilization building game is Eco where it is a common threat of a meteor, but no PvP the last time I looked.
 
After all if we are being super-realistic you only get to lose at PvP once - and very few folks are up for that.
 

Of course i wont take it the wrong way   ! That is why we are here discussing things in a polite way and share our thoughts for a game we like.
Now as for the number of tiles a player can have i think is maybe a matter of luck ... I will explain :
As far as we know NQ is planning to keep the safe zone in Alioth madis thades circle. That comes from a statement from NQ in the 3rd part where they say there will be asteroids in safe zones with lower quality ore of course. So from this statement we get that this safe zone will probably stays there.
Also there is no statement that a tax based system will be implement on occupied tiles . And until now the number of tiles a player can have is subject to the amount of money they spent.
Take also in mind that mining units are incoming without also hearing any limitation for that makes me then have 2 thoughts :
1) Large number tile claimers will be the next billionaires ( X number of tiles x 2.000.000 ore (minimum Alioth for example) x 25 price = 50 million per tile )
2) Or they will be surprised by an upcoming change that brings limitations to this and this will no longer be an issue
Thats is why i said it is a matter of luck and i would say investment made claiming these tiles the only factor we have so far implemented . There is nothing else taking place .
I guess we need to wait for the patches that are coming to be able to say anything else about this.
But until now an investment of lets say 120 tiles is :
1) Tile claiming amounts 64.000.000 ( 120 x 533.000 using org to claim them because of the character limitation on claiming.)
2) 120 territory units  6.000.000 (strategically bought at 50k or less if you can)
3) some fuel and a cargo ship
Now if you say me that if i invest 70 million in order to be able to receive an amount of aproxx 5-6 billion in the future then put me in for that ! Add the cost of mining units also ...
And then say i just lost a Large core ship in pvp worth 70 million if i loose my  investment .
In fact you dont really need to sell the ore if you are planning to build something big ! That is  why it is a double investment !
Also take in mind that if you wish to claim a large connected area within safe zone then Alioth is a must ! Everywhere i looked simply you cant have a large area in a connected way except Alioth.
I know that this is something some players will find is bad for the game but it isnt ! Alioth is occupied at 13,77% in present time which leaves plenty of room for new players to proceed. Unless we reach a number of 90% occupation i dont think there is a reason this is bad for the game.
I am not suggesting players to do that but it is something i took the risk and done it ...
Luck Favors the Bold !!! 
 
Habitant
Habitants Organization

well, my construct was moved away from the market entrance, i dont know when, so i counted 980 different people coming across it, last counter reset was around end of february.
TheRubishLife was the last crosspasser, so Mr. RubsihLife , when have you been at the market7, this might help us getting some numbers.
 
 
 
 
  

I agree with this, and I actually said somewhere above that I think there should be safezones where PvP can be avoided.  Those can host all sorts of things from theme park-like cities to ship showrooms and even pirate bases like Tortuga because yes, nobody likes to spend months building something to have people blow it up once a week , ransom it, try to force them into an org to protect it, etc.  I also agree with rent/taxes as a good mechanism for returning unused tiles (perhaps with the ability for someone else to bid up the rent on the tile if they want it).
 
But I think there still needs to be some sense of danger wherever you are so the game stays fun.  Perhaps someone could push you off a building when you're too close to the edge and loot your inventory at the bottom (getting chased by robot police or whatever).  Perhaps collision damage into buildings could be a thing and buildings can have shields to protect against it?  Also I think allowing people to scam, steal things which aren't nailed down (and fly them into the PvP zone and kill them) etc would also make it more fun and challenging.  At the end of the day DU was always supposed to be a game and not just a showcase of cool stuff.
 
 

All opinions are welcome. As has been pointed out, sometimes a new player's vision or the early game play, or understanding of the game in general, etc. There are always lots of angles   So, while I appreciate the sentiment to what you are saying, it doesn't help us design any better to only look at one segment of player. 

With out a constant stream of new players, a game like this won’t survive.
 
So we gotta listen to what they experience. We want them to stick around.
 
Sure, it’s not helpful if there comment is “I’ve plastered for a week, but I can’t afford a golden L core battle ship. My factory can’t make everything. This ship I designed sucks and it should be fantastic”
 
BUT... we still have to listen to what they say.
 
Maybe we need a PvP arena where you can have a leader board for XS (and every other size) cores, where the prize money on average for an average player will be more than their losses. So they can experience PvP.
 
A new factory will never compete with somebody who has seven months of talents invested in theirs. But maybe a mission could be take these components to this area and set up a fuel station for us. Or maybe deliver us 100 Uncommon Component(s) from a factory you own.
 
Their first ship build is not going to be good, but give them something to work from. Mission make a ship from the components in this container and fly the ship to location xx for sale.
 
we got to give the new players game, and listen to their problems so they become long term players 
 
 

Sweet, something to do with my Sanctuary hex ?

I own 120 city tiles connected together on Alioth  (i have seen there are bigger areas than me).My dream is to build a big city . I have spent a lot of millions for that .I also spent a lot of time for that . I dont want Alioth to be a condested pvp area .  I am here to build on a persistent world not test my farming skills . And you wanna know what ?
I will definetely join a battle with a pvp org after i feel i want to pew pew but not risking my entire city for a guy who just subbed for the weekend . So Alioth madis thades circle safe zone needs to be that way . Make your pvp game far beyond to places that offer pvp material and good stuff BUT not my building progress cause if i knew that i wouldnt built it in first place ! YOU will not enjoy it also if that happens ... Persistent is the key !
 
Habitant
Habitants Organization

I own 120 city tiles connected together on Alioth  (i have seen there are bigger areas than me).My dream is to build a big city . I have spent a lot of millions for that .I also spent a lot of time for that . I dont want Alioth to be a condested pvp area .  I am here to build on a persistent world not test my farming skills . And you wanna know what ?
I will definetely join a battle with a pvp org after i feel i want to pew pew but not risking my entire city for a guy who just subbed for the weekend . So Alioth madis thades circle safe zone needs to be that way . Make your pvp game far beyond to places that offer pvp material and good stuff BUT not my building progress cause if i knew that i wouldnt built it in first place ! YOU will not enjoy it also if that happens ... Persistent is the key !
 
Habitant
Habitants Organization

This +1

Finally, someone who understands the real problem here. And to add to this, the reason people come and go, is because of the old timers who are not saying anything constructive to help the devs, they are basically being toxic players that run off the new players. I have seen a lot of new players come and go, and their reason ? Toxic Players. It has become a vicious circle.

We need constructive criticism to work with the devs. IF those with an agenda hate the game, I quote what I saw a few other players say  " move on ".

Well, no that I have your attention, yes I do think that PVP and specifically combat PVP is important to DU. It is not vital but it is important, if not very important.
For Combat PVP to work it is required that the mechanics that drive it are stable, solid, balanced and well tested.
 
In that regard I think two things that I expect will happen and/or we know will happen are vital
 
1. Asteroids and Asteroid Mining
For this to be a good driver in combat PVP, it will need to first _actually work_ and in a live service game where there is hordes of bloodthirsty players who are craving their shot of pewpew, testing this mechanic outside of safe zones is a risk. Keeping the mechanic safe at least initially makes absolute sense even when it means  that the pewpew will need to wait.
 
Asteroid mining wil need to be lucrative, flawless and worth the risk for those that want to get the goods to venture in to PVP space. If the value of the mechanic is not established or if attempt to get to them is quickly bashed in by pewpew flotillas camping these sites they will die a quick death. I'm sorry you guys, but the pewpew will need to wait
 
2. TW in space
Could this be a ploy by NQ to tick the TW box and move planet side TW beyond release as they will do what they must to hit release end of the year and will push out what they can to get there? Of course that is possible and frankly not outside of the possible outcomes.
 
I think and hope it more likely NQ wants to be able to gather data and get experience wit the core mechanics in a more controlled environment which is PVP space. This intermediate stage would mean a better way to test and control ECM and shielding, an initial option to test base and tile defenses. Frankly, from a game design perspective it makes sense. 
 
 
Overall, NQ once more shows their lack of understanding the need to set clear expectations and drive understanding of their choices through clear communication. It's almost funny to see how some of the things they say they have understood and will need to do better going forward are already thrown out the window on the first opportunity they have to show they mean it, the third part of those blog posts.

absolutely! 

Everyone here has paid to be in this game one way or another and they have the right to offer feedback, post suggestions and join in on ANY conversation they like.  It is simply not your place to tell them otherwise.

Discuss the final chapter of this series below!  What are you most looking forward to? 

About a year ago I fell in love with DU's tech and the promise. Launched my organization (DIA) with the beta. I have grown it to a relevant proportion. I then left the game due to what's basically a lack of content. This devblog series does not rekindle my hopes for the game. Here is what I think about the game's current state and my open letter to NQ and response to the devblogs.
 
Is DU a Tech Demo, a Beta, or a Full Launch?
 
Dear NQ,
 
A fundamental thing about why this game is losing so much momentum is you calling a tech demo a beta, then expecting players to actually play it like a fully launched game.
 
From a game mechanics perspective, Dual Universe is a tech demo. The only sustainably enjoyable and interesting gameplay has been construct building. Most playstyles this game should have been featuring are out of balance, boring, or nonexistent. Player support is a nightmare. The game regularly experiences bugs and exploits most of which affect the universe and enjoyment of all players, not just the ones who interact with the bugs.
 
From the your official perspective, DU is a beta, because you wanted to be able to charge the players for the game, yet make drastic changes to the game without angering the playerbase.
 
But from the player perspective, DU is a fully launched game, because you are letting players accumulate wealth, experiences, organizational structures; and carry it over to the actual launch. Let me explain why this matters so much.
 
Why Would People Play DU?
 
Your failure to recognize the fact that this game isn't a beta for the player showcases a fundamental lack of appreciation on why people play single shard sandbox games. People do not and will not play DU for the immediate experiences of mining, building, industry, ship flying, or PvP.  Your main problem isn't the immediate "gameplay loops" that the players are put into. These are not the primarily outstanding features of DU gameplay. There are much better games out there for each. I could play Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous if I was super into spaceship flying. I could play Satisfactory for a way better version of DU's experience of industry. Literally any game has better PvP than DU. 
 
[I exclude construct building from the above list of activities as it is pretty high level compared to games of similar nature, such as Minecraft. And guess what; it's your most time-invested and early-developed feature.]
 
We are early adopters of this game, because we want to play a game which we don't just log in and do our favorite activities, but we also want a game in which doing these activities matter in the context of the greater sandbox universe. The ore I collect could fuel a war. The PvP I do could save or collapse an organization. The ship or LUA I designed can be adopted by thousands of players, ultimately be used to tremendous ends. The factories I build could be the backbone of my space empire. We are here waiting for this emergent content to emerge. We are want to get ahead, be relevant, be famous, be helpful in our different ways in this universe. We want to be a part of something greater. That's what a single shard sandbox is about. The fact that whatever you are doing matters in a greater scheme of things, is why we are playing this game. This is also why game changes, exploits, lack of support and lack of content matters so much.
 
The Frustrations
 
We cared about playing in the context of a greater, living universe. So we sucked up the broken mechanics and the lack of content, and started seriously investing our time in DU. This is because if we didn't, we'd have fallen behind. In other words, we had no choice but to treat this game as a full launch in our time investment decision, because otherwise we'd be punished with respect to why we are playing the game. You basically forced yourself into a position which you constantly frustrate players, because you gave them a tech demo but pushed them to play as if it was a full game. Let me elaborate on concrete examples.
 
The vast majority of specific frustration cases in DU can be categorized into three.
 
Firstly, there are game design changes that invalidate people's hours. The industry patch, screen updates, and every other perhaps much-needed change that would invalidate hundreds of hours of people's time. Now since the game is mechanically a tech demo, you want to be able to make drastic changes. But since people play it as a fully launched game, they commit their full selves and do become frustrated when major changes that are very much necessary invalidate hundreds of hours of their time.
 
Secondly, there are bugs, exploits, and lack of support. People derived truckloads of money and benefits off them (e.g. the blueprint market bug, the initial T4-T5 bot ore purchases, old broken industry, and lots more). People who didn't get support fell behind (even in DIA we lost a warp beacon, and we didn't have DRM ownership of our factories due to the lack of support). These exploits and broken gameplay elements aren't things that you can shrug off when you fix them, because their repercussions in the DU universe (aka the illegitimate wealth people acquired, etc.) carry over even into the actual launch. And you didn't (in most cases couldn't) address that in most cases. You didn't remove the profits earned by the exploiters of the blueprint bot order fiasco, for example. When players earn billions off bugs and exploits, that makes the rest of us who has to do legitimate work to earn that income invalidated. That's game-breaking, because again, most of our enjoyment of DU derives from our activities in the context of the greater DU universe than just the activities themselves. Again, you launched a tech demo in which you didn't have the manpower to do cleanups (e.g. deleting the income) after exploits, and players playing it as a full game pay the price.
 
Thirdly, there is the lack of content because the game is underdeveloped. The path from a tech demo to boredom is pretty self explanatory with this category of frustration.
 
The truth is many players wouldn't have invested that much time and effort in trying to do things that matter in this sandbox, if the game reset once it's properly launched at an acceptable quality. And no, it obviously isn't enough to argue that "players knew that they were going into a beta" because you committed to not wiping the game, including designs. Because, again, people mainly play DU to matter and to be relevant in a universe, and you left them a choice of either falling behind of that goal, or playing a semi-working tech demo.
 
Emergent Content
 
The second big picture issue I see with your decisions is about your views and predictions of how emergent content emerges. Emergent content does not emerge unless the game creates the right conditions for it to emerge. The lack of conflict and content driving mechanics mostly made it impossible for it emerge in DU.
 
[I am saying "mostly", because the one playstyle which is an exception to this is construct building. Great construct creations (although only in looks, not as much in functionality) are the only emergent content this game provides so far. And guess what, the content around this playstyle (ships, stations, expos) are the only thing NQ Twitter can mention daily.]
 
For even a beta, DU should have emerged as many stories in war, piracy, theft, great empires, great trade deals, and so on. These are the kinds of things Eve players should be familiar with. The fact of the matter is that for any other single player experience, there is a better game. But for the emergent sandbox-wide content, DU could have been the best game. Meanwhile, we got JC's "puzzles" which were badly envisioned attempts to generate that content. They were one-time events generating one-time content. They were pretty exclusive in terms of the ratio of DU players engaging with it. They were probably a waste of your devtime. An elaborate "puzzle" is an example of how not to introduce emergent content to your sandbox. True sandbox content is typically unintended, unplanned. 
 
Here are some immediate choke points on the game design which makes it non-conducive to emergent content.
 
Industry: All processes in DU leading up to construct building are fully vertically-integrateable solo (if not with a small organization). If you have 10 people, no reason to not to everything in-house. The game should have been designed from very early on in a way which deep specializations are needed to prevent self-sufficiency. Instead, your "gameplay loop" and "DU shouldn't feel like work" worries pushes you to introduce even more self-sufficiency (aka mining units). In a true sandbox people who don't want to mine would have other opportunities of value generation to buy the ore. Moreover, this is a bad case of "listening to players". Most players have no idea what makes an overall high quality sandbox. A builder will just want free materials to build. That doesn't mean that's a good implementation for a sandbox MMO.
 
Trade: JC's allergy to API, ESI and such removes huge depth from trading for the sake of trading.
 
Organization-Building: There is no value organizations can provide to members which they couldn't have gotten elsewhere. There is no service and value-generator members couldn't have gotten elsewhere unless they join. And inversely, there is no reason why members should pay "taxes" or invest in their organizations. Thus, there is no point in creating a deeply structured organization. Anything can be done better as 1 or 2 dedicated players, without all the hassle of people management.
 
Consensual PvP:  There is no structure in which players can find PvP. Solo PvP isn't even viable (at least to most who don't use remote controllers) when 2 players can man an L core that can one-shot your ship. It is a huge deal-breaker for a sandbox game if one can't hop on their ship and find daily PvP at their small time window. Frankly I don't see how you will be able to circumvent this problem in the next year or years. The devblog certainly does not provide an answer here.
 
Organizational PvP: Can be summed up as "nothing to fight over". Even if you introduce territory warfare, huge mining and resource distributions revamps will ne required to make territories worth fighting over.
 
Non-Consensual and Asymmetric PvP: Piracy is near-impossible because avoiding potential pirates is easy. There is no mechanical depth to generate a meaningful risk/reward space in which some players die to pirates, but not in a game-disabling fashion. Similarly, there are no asymmetric (big org vs. small org) opportunities for the same lack of depth. 
 
No PvE Content:  You don't seem to have money for any.
 
No Exploration Content: You don't seem to have interest for much. One can do construct and planet exploration, but it gets old pretty fast without any reward. Moreover, exploration gameplay was a very low hanging fruit to generate right at the beta launch. Just sprinkle some exclusive rewards in a manner which someone roaming regularly would find these rewards at least once half an hour (and this is how you botched shipwrecks).
 
The Trajectory of the Game and DU as an Ecosystem
 
Reading the devblog does not excite me about the future of the game and on whether you learned meaningful lessons. Emergent content will not emerge unless you begin thinking about Dual Universe as an ecosystem. In a single shard sandbox, playstyles and activities should be interconnected in an ecosystem of relations. Yes, you do seem to realize that there is a lack of content, conflict driving mechanics, and more "sand in the sandbox". You don't however, seem to appreciate the role this interconnectedness plays in generating content. 
 
For example, you want to implement space mining, but you don't think about the demand-side. Ore itself is only valuable if there is demand for it. The lack of PvP losses, the availability of ore in safe-zone players, in the market, and in people's long term stashes won't make ore worth fighting over. So you need new things with demand. And even when you meet this challenge, you have to solve the n+1 problem. For players, the optimized way of engaging with big-reward mechanics is creating consortiums and monopolies. Good conflict drivers involve inherent game designs against these. There is nothing for example, that yields advantages to smaller fleets of ships over larger fleets in DU PvP. This example illustrates how sandbox conflict drivers are supposed to be grounded on mindful and deep PvP mechanics, as well as meaningful balance of risk/reward to drive the conflict and the fun. It is unfortunately predictable that you will put some ore (or new items) to PvP space, and wait for people to sustainably fight over them, which won't happen. The nature of the reward and the nature of the PvP to obtain the reward are as much inherent to content emergence as the placement of the reward.
 
I have a pessimist prediction, because any earlier game design decisions involving ore distribution to planets and hexes, territory scanning, bot orders, industry flows, etc; indicate a similar lack in conceiving Dual Universe as a single interconnected ecosystem. Earlier decisions could have easily generated a more meaningful distribution of value to territories (the most valuable hex is cleared in a day, which is also connected to mining mechanics), things to fight over (if we would have construct PvP on asteroids, there is no reason why we didn't have construct PvP on some planets), exploration (for example, it's not costly to add 10 valuable NPC ships with sub-par AI at a given time to orbits of planets), and so on. Similarly, some future plans show the same lack of appreciation to DU as an ecosystem; such as mining units which will predictably devalue mining by underestimating how much effort players (and botters/RMT'ers) would spend to create big passive income setups.
 
Overall this all just feels like different teams at NQ are given different aspects of the game and they are all implementing their individual designs. There is no wider orchestration from upper level game designers and producers who truly can conceive DU as an ecosystem, and who can appreciate the interconnectedness different systems in the game should exhibit. JC looks like a person who has a great big picture vision, who wants his metaverse, but who does not have the necessary specific visions and approaches to sandbox/ecosystemic game design and development to get there.
 
DU's Project Management and Finances
 
As a final remark, it seems that most of this "lack of content" and the launch decisions could be due to high level decision-making for financial or technological reasons. Perhaps you heavily needed the subscription revenue. Or you needed players to truly commit to the game so you can test the tech. Even if so, the plan seems to have failed. The people who pitched the game to investors should have conducted better expectation management and better financial/business planning. 
 
I am speculating JC was put on the bench for related reasons. If so, then that's perhaps a good call depending on who replaces him. If this is the most you could deliver given the money you have, I don't see how using the same money better would have delivered a timely product. The game might have just needed more money and several years more of development to reach a workable design and launch track. If so, then the responsibility is with those who planned DU and NQ as a business and project model.
 
That said, I hope the investors keep up with it, because I think the initial promise of the game (provided good future game design) is pretty sound. It might need two years more development and a bigger team though.
 
I'll keep following how the game progresses and I hope it succeeds. I don't find the money I spent on it a waste as I already played hundreds of hours.
 
o7
 
EDIT: Corrected some grammar and sentencing.

Cookies and coffee to the left......

Discuss today's Devblog below! 

A  perspective of someone newly involved into the game without knowledge of the history, promises made/kept stuff .  Im on day 11 of my 90 day trial, you have 79 more days to deal with me.

a) A scripting guide is a must. What LUA is allowed / what isn't.  Can I make a cube spin? Greeter Bot? Touch, Say in 'local chat',  change color, reset script....etc........ Easy right?

b) Building tools= OK: There is always room for improvement here,  No grids to line up to, no textures that aid in building. Current tool setup feels old and under appreciated
 
c) Timer Skill Tree = Eve= Bad. There should be zero advantage for older players other than their own knowledge and abilities. I am not going to pay monthly fee's to get a guarantee of being owned by players who have done nothing more than just timer skilled up longer than me.

d) Exploration = unimpressive.  No new member adventures here other than walking around and picking up pretty rocks. How far away of a grind is open space exploration to the average new player? You need things to do, Maybe wrecks to explore, scavenge resource collection, sabotage, covert actions. Right now DU offer a small vehicle to new players, lagged market area's and thousands of hours of meaningless skill timers

e) Economy in DU = unimpressive. Economy is the circulatory system of a game. It is not a closed loop. There is a 'in' and an 'out'. Circulation happens between those in's and out's. I do not see that you can buy Quanta in game for fiat, nor can you sell Quantum in game either. This is important because you are building a game in which player content creation is a major part of, there HAS to be a real circulatory system in which money flows in and out like Oxygen and CO2 in a body. Without this, you will not attract those content creators you need.  Fiat = Quanta and Quanta = Fiat.  Get a conversion rate your satisfied with and go with it, trust in your abilities to make a great game and stake your game on that ability. If you cant do that, why should you develop this game?

I realize Dev isn't building a game for me personally, but generally, I'd like to see a clearer roadmap posted, a sense of more assured direction and actions that lead to improved player content creation that helps DU Dev make a great game environment

This wraps up my first 10 days

We will support you till the end ! 
Nice part 2 !
Go go go !!!!!!!!!!