Gottchar

First off, I still kinda like the game. Now let’s dive into the negative things.
 
Unfun things and tedium is being added. Fun things are being removed. Grayseeker worded it very nicely in the JC Q&A:
 
"Creative people aren’t driven by economics, power etc. The driving force is to create, to build. And DU is awesome for this. A primary reason the market hasn’t been used as you would like could be because people love to make the stuff themselves. Are you concerned  that people will sink all their money into schematics to carry on building as they have been"

King JC misinterpreted the question and answered "We expect a minority (10%?) to go into the industry gameplay, and compete on the market to provide low cost "products" to all the other players."

JC, please tell us, how do you play the game?  Plenty of users would love to see you livestream normal gameplay, not just looking at nice buildings, but actual normal gameplay, like endless digging, fiddeling around with the market interface, checking all your machines if any are stuck. Have your ship bug out and crash for no reason, you know, real DU gameplay.



When is mining going to be more than hours of clicking while watching a movie?

And when will there be any positive changes to the mess that is the interface? Which number is bigger on first glance, 105532952 or 53223924? How about 105 532 952 or 53 223 924?

Search the market and tell me how much adjustors L are on Lacobus, or if there are any at all, while you yourself are on Alioth.

Try this, put 150 silumin in a container, nothing in another, and connect a transfer unit to move it. Click "doable". Now type the word in manually.

Ever made an "executive chair"? I never did, I just see them pop up on my notification log when I sell them. Because when you changed the name for navigator chair nobody bothered to change the text in the market files.
 
Or the sizes, ever wanted to know what size container or engine or whatever you just sold? Sorry, can’t do.
 
Further, we now don’t even know which market we sold something at anymore.
 
Got stuff at multiple markets and want to look through them? There are 100 ways to sort the inventory of a specific market container, but not one to sort the containers to show only non-empty.

Right at the start new players actually think there is a core limit. I mean there kind of is a core limit, until you find out there is not.

And the same is the case for territory units.
 
VTA or whatever you call it, why do some players get insider knowledge?

Is there a reason why I can inspect a stack of ore in my inventory to see the total mass, but not in the market inventory?
 
Too many elements and your craft flies at a small fraction of the displayed speed. Wh
 
y do I have the feeling I can add to this list for another hour or two?



And what did we get in the last patches? Was any fun stuff added? We got more bugs, more falling AGG as you removed the tools to keep them afloat.

Random people got insider info and could keep their riches.

Some others got rich because they saw the change in time about bots now buying ore for double price, or they had some other insider info.
 
Everybody else lost, my whole factory can not be rebuilt as it was using dynamic lines. All we can do now is dedicated lines to spam certain items, as not having a machine run 24/7 after you buy the schematic is a waste.  My social aspect in this game was people giving me a list of items they want to pick up the next day, All I can say now is "I don’t have 90% of those items, but the others I have 4000 times." And then bring it to the market. The dead market with all the trash of people who quit, corps that no longer exist and hubs full of items nobody wants. You were afraid the world you created could look empty, now it looks deserted instead.

First off, I still kinda like the game. Now let’s dive into the negative things.
 
Unfun things and tedium is being added. Fun things are being removed. Grayseeker worded it very nicely in the JC Q&A:
 
"Creative people aren’t driven by economics, power etc. The driving force is to create, to build. And DU is awesome for this. A primary reason the market hasn’t been used as you would like could be because people love to make the stuff themselves. Are you concerned  that people will sink all their money into schematics to carry on building as they have been"

King JC misinterpreted the question and answered "We expect a minority (10%?) to go into the industry gameplay, and compete on the market to provide low cost "products" to all the other players."

JC, please tell us, how do you play the game?  Plenty of users would love to see you livestream normal gameplay, not just looking at nice buildings, but actual normal gameplay, like endless digging, fiddeling around with the market interface, checking all your machines if any are stuck. Have your ship bug out and crash for no reason, you know, real DU gameplay.



When is mining going to be more than hours of clicking while watching a movie?

And when will there be any positive changes to the mess that is the interface? Which number is bigger on first glance, 105532952 or 53223924? How about 105 532 952 or 53 223 924?

Search the market and tell me how much adjustors L are on Lacobus, or if there are any at all, while you yourself are on Alioth.

Try this, put 150 silumin in a container, nothing in another, and connect a transfer unit to move it. Click "doable". Now type the word in manually.

Ever made an "executive chair"? I never did, I just see them pop up on my notification log when I sell them. Because when you changed the name for navigator chair nobody bothered to change the text in the market files.
 
Or the sizes, ever wanted to know what size container or engine or whatever you just sold? Sorry, can’t do.
 
Further, we now don’t even know which market we sold something at anymore.
 
Got stuff at multiple markets and want to look through them? There are 100 ways to sort the inventory of a specific market container, but not one to sort the containers to show only non-empty.

Right at the start new players actually think there is a core limit. I mean there kind of is a core limit, until you find out there is not.

And the same is the case for territory units.
 
VTA or whatever you call it, why do some players get insider knowledge?

Is there a reason why I can inspect a stack of ore in my inventory to see the total mass, but not in the market inventory?
 
Too many elements and your craft flies at a small fraction of the displayed speed. Wh
 
y do I have the feeling I can add to this list for another hour or two?



And what did we get in the last patches? Was any fun stuff added? We got more bugs, more falling AGG as you removed the tools to keep them afloat.

Random people got insider info and could keep their riches.

Some others got rich because they saw the change in time about bots now buying ore for double price, or they had some other insider info.
 
Everybody else lost, my whole factory can not be rebuilt as it was using dynamic lines. All we can do now is dedicated lines to spam certain items, as not having a machine run 24/7 after you buy the schematic is a waste.  My social aspect in this game was people giving me a list of items they want to pick up the next day, All I can say now is "I don’t have 90% of those items, but the others I have 4000 times." And then bring it to the market. The dead market with all the trash of people who quit, corps that no longer exist and hubs full of items nobody wants. You were afraid the world you created could look empty, now it looks deserted instead.

First off, I still kinda like the game. Now let’s dive into the negative things.
 
Unfun things and tedium is being added. Fun things are being removed. Grayseeker worded it very nicely in the JC Q&A:
 
"Creative people aren’t driven by economics, power etc. The driving force is to create, to build. And DU is awesome for this. A primary reason the market hasn’t been used as you would like could be because people love to make the stuff themselves. Are you concerned  that people will sink all their money into schematics to carry on building as they have been"

King JC misinterpreted the question and answered "We expect a minority (10%?) to go into the industry gameplay, and compete on the market to provide low cost "products" to all the other players."

JC, please tell us, how do you play the game?  Plenty of users would love to see you livestream normal gameplay, not just looking at nice buildings, but actual normal gameplay, like endless digging, fiddeling around with the market interface, checking all your machines if any are stuck. Have your ship bug out and crash for no reason, you know, real DU gameplay.



When is mining going to be more than hours of clicking while watching a movie?

And when will there be any positive changes to the mess that is the interface? Which number is bigger on first glance, 105532952 or 53223924? How about 105 532 952 or 53 223 924?

Search the market and tell me how much adjustors L are on Lacobus, or if there are any at all, while you yourself are on Alioth.

Try this, put 150 silumin in a container, nothing in another, and connect a transfer unit to move it. Click "doable". Now type the word in manually.

Ever made an "executive chair"? I never did, I just see them pop up on my notification log when I sell them. Because when you changed the name for navigator chair nobody bothered to change the text in the market files.
 
Or the sizes, ever wanted to know what size container or engine or whatever you just sold? Sorry, can’t do.
 
Further, we now don’t even know which market we sold something at anymore.
 
Got stuff at multiple markets and want to look through them? There are 100 ways to sort the inventory of a specific market container, but not one to sort the containers to show only non-empty.

Right at the start new players actually think there is a core limit. I mean there kind of is a core limit, until you find out there is not.

And the same is the case for territory units.
 
VTA or whatever you call it, why do some players get insider knowledge?

Is there a reason why I can inspect a stack of ore in my inventory to see the total mass, but not in the market inventory?
 
Too many elements and your craft flies at a small fraction of the displayed speed. Wh
 
y do I have the feeling I can add to this list for another hour or two?



And what did we get in the last patches? Was any fun stuff added? We got more bugs, more falling AGG as you removed the tools to keep them afloat.

Random people got insider info and could keep their riches.

Some others got rich because they saw the change in time about bots now buying ore for double price, or they had some other insider info.
 
Everybody else lost, my whole factory can not be rebuilt as it was using dynamic lines. All we can do now is dedicated lines to spam certain items, as not having a machine run 24/7 after you buy the schematic is a waste.  My social aspect in this game was people giving me a list of items they want to pick up the next day, All I can say now is "I don’t have 90% of those items, but the others I have 4000 times." And then bring it to the market. The dead market with all the trash of people who quit, corps that no longer exist and hubs full of items nobody wants. You were afraid the world you created could look empty, now it looks deserted instead.

First off, I still kinda like the game. Now let’s dive into the negative things.
 
Unfun things and tedium is being added. Fun things are being removed. Grayseeker worded it very nicely in the JC Q&A:
 
"Creative people aren’t driven by economics, power etc. The driving force is to create, to build. And DU is awesome for this. A primary reason the market hasn’t been used as you would like could be because people love to make the stuff themselves. Are you concerned  that people will sink all their money into schematics to carry on building as they have been"

King JC misinterpreted the question and answered "We expect a minority (10%?) to go into the industry gameplay, and compete on the market to provide low cost "products" to all the other players."

JC, please tell us, how do you play the game?  Plenty of users would love to see you livestream normal gameplay, not just looking at nice buildings, but actual normal gameplay, like endless digging, fiddeling around with the market interface, checking all your machines if any are stuck. Have your ship bug out and crash for no reason, you know, real DU gameplay.



When is mining going to be more than hours of clicking while watching a movie?

And when will there be any positive changes to the mess that is the interface? Which number is bigger on first glance, 105532952 or 53223924? How about 105 532 952 or 53 223 924?

Search the market and tell me how much adjustors L are on Lacobus, or if there are any at all, while you yourself are on Alioth.

Try this, put 150 silumin in a container, nothing in another, and connect a transfer unit to move it. Click "doable". Now type the word in manually.

Ever made an "executive chair"? I never did, I just see them pop up on my notification log when I sell them. Because when you changed the name for navigator chair nobody bothered to change the text in the market files.
 
Or the sizes, ever wanted to know what size container or engine or whatever you just sold? Sorry, can’t do.
 
Further, we now don’t even know which market we sold something at anymore.
 
Got stuff at multiple markets and want to look through them? There are 100 ways to sort the inventory of a specific market container, but not one to sort the containers to show only non-empty.

Right at the start new players actually think there is a core limit. I mean there kind of is a core limit, until you find out there is not.

And the same is the case for territory units.
 
VTA or whatever you call it, why do some players get insider knowledge?

Is there a reason why I can inspect a stack of ore in my inventory to see the total mass, but not in the market inventory?
 
Too many elements and your craft flies at a small fraction of the displayed speed. Wh
 
y do I have the feeling I can add to this list for another hour or two?



And what did we get in the last patches? Was any fun stuff added? We got more bugs, more falling AGG as you removed the tools to keep them afloat.

Random people got insider info and could keep their riches.

Some others got rich because they saw the change in time about bots now buying ore for double price, or they had some other insider info.
 
Everybody else lost, my whole factory can not be rebuilt as it was using dynamic lines. All we can do now is dedicated lines to spam certain items, as not having a machine run 24/7 after you buy the schematic is a waste.  My social aspect in this game was people giving me a list of items they want to pick up the next day, All I can say now is "I don’t have 90% of those items, but the others I have 4000 times." And then bring it to the market. The dead market with all the trash of people who quit, corps that no longer exist and hubs full of items nobody wants. You were afraid the world you created could look empty, now it looks deserted instead.

Alright, a few things:

There is little content in this game, even less for new players. You new take another one away.

-exploring, available for everyone, does not give progress.
-mining, open for everybody, although far more rewarding if you know what you are doing, especially scanning, far planets and soon multiple dyn core container hubs to "chain" the ore to the surface. You are kind of killing casual mining done by new players.
-industry, currently something a player can start right after the tutorial, and while it takes time to make money, you may at least save money. You block this for new players.
-pvp, how long would it take a newish player to go from a base on alioth and an S core hauler until he wins his first skirmish? 40h, 200h? I have no idea.
-traveling merchant, playing markets, needs initial money and therefore useless for new players.
 
Instead of introducing something that is actually fun, you add more tedium and kill new player experience.
 
New players already have a hard time, as plenty of game mechanics that make the game a LOT easier are not learnable by just paying attention and playing.
 
-Market UI is a convoluted mess, most new players (watch a noob stream) just farm their nanopack full of ore, bring it to the market and sell hematite for 6q/l.
-Also nice is waiting for your nanocrafter to finish something and being unable to mine as you dont have inventory (just give the STU some inventory space, no way to abuse that for anything. Bonus points for automatically making it linked container on initial placement).
-New players actually think there is a core limit and may take stuff apart to be able to make something else. BTW, why do you make it look like there is a core limit?
 
There would be less need for more (buggy) tutorials if the less was more intuitive, less contradicting and didn’t hide a lot of information for no reason.
 
Market bots
 
There is no issue with bots buying a variety of item at bad prices. The issue is that if you (or another beta key character of yours) skills hema/coal/steel/steel honeycomb making to five, you can buy hema and coal for 37 and 27 from players and make 112 quanta for every 100 quanta you spent (more if you buy lower). Some few players utilize this to make large amounts of money. I would guess about 30% of all hematite dug out is currently deleted that way every day.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BL2GJSVaGz0cdTzy-bgDbtlqBBTXCjH5YTqR0IiQciY/edit?usp=sharing

This is not a way to "inject money into the economy", this is a way to delete massive amount of ore that could be turned into ships, bases and other things at lower price. It just favours players who went a very boring way, helped by multiple accounts, to make large amounts of money while harming the other players. 

When players want to talk about market bots, the do not mean a way to, if at a small loss, buy/sell things that no players wants at that market at that time, they mean the 10 million litres of ore being deleted every day. Every time a dev is asked about this, including today, it seems they are irritated people dislike them. Unless one of them says "we are aware that multiple million litres hematite each day are sold to bots by a low amount of individuals" I continue to believe the devs are unaware of the scale of the issue.

Schematics

Mixed feeling, I, like many others here, think at least t1 stuff, maybe just M assembler and smaller, should be free of schematics or those schematics should be so cheap you already save money if you only make 5 adjustors. Otherwise, see above, you just gatekeep a feature in a game that already doesn’t have a lot of things to do.

What I dislike more than the cost, is that it will add a lot of tedium again. It already takes quite long to set up industry. 
-place them
-link them (which quickly leads to multi-second freezes. Game leaves full screen mode if you hit escape)
-for every single unit:
     -engage unit and select wanted item
             -if transfer unit, manually enter name of item, as "only show doable" requires a far higher minimum amount than batch size
     -select mode/amount
     NEW click on schematic, check inventory for schematic item, find the correct one, move to slot, confirm
     -press start
connect output container to whatever needs the stuff


This is not "hard" as in "challenging", this is "hard" as in "tedious and boring". The former you want in a game, the latter you do not.

Imagine you had to fly a ship like that! Activate every single engine, manually type in "main thrust". Check brake fluid on every brake. Set "left/right/up/down/forward/back" on every single adjustor. Set wings to lift. Select keybind for every landing gear. Set altitude for hovers and boosters. Manually link all elements to cockpit. Place relays if number exceeds 10.
You get the idea? This is not fun. There is not even a way to be good or bad at it, there is no way to fail or be proud if you got it done. What sounds silly for making a ship is reality for industry though.

Information policy

Not posting the info of the stream in writing is just rude. Writing is easier to auto translate. People would do it for free if supported. Written is easier to quote or to check. Text can be read half and continued later. Written is easier to understand for us foreigners, especially if accents are involved.

Any info officially given is super vague and only explains intentions without any details. Some random factory will cost 150B, why even give us the number if we do not know the factory? Is the schematic an actual inventory item? You already have the UI, why not show it? Why mix actually developed and set stuff like schematics with talk about t5 engines which are months away? The game has a lot of problems regarding normal casual gameplay. People usually don’t start the game as part of a team, they start as a solo player, stay if they have fun and maybe join an org if they meet nice players and want to tackle end game goals. You keep on ignoring normal everyday questions and issues and talk about large scale things that do not affect dirty casuals.
 
The info you dropped today would have been pure gold in the hands of players who get it early and can be sure about it. This kind of insider info must kept secret and made open public for all players at the same time, well ahead of the actual changes. Sharing it with a few random players is just rude. The bad thing the leaks showed was not the info leaked, it was the fact that you share info like this with some select players who can use if for massive profit.


Sidenote while you are reading this wall anyway
 
We get it, you can make things really pretty in this game. Very round, lots of smooth tool, look at these shapes and colours. It would be nice if people with a bit more interest in physic or engineering games had something usefull to do. Currently every ship is just a list of parts, placement does not matter above a very low skill floor. It would also be nice if you decided to ever fix the element number bug and a large (winged) ship flying at 500 kilometers per hour would be able to move more than 200 kilometers within an hour.

Please remember, it is absolutely right that players often do not know the best solution for a problem, but if many people say there is a problem, there is likely a problem.

Alright, a few things:

There is little content in this game, even less for new players. You new take another one away.

-exploring, available for everyone, does not give progress.
-mining, open for everybody, although far more rewarding if you know what you are doing, especially scanning, far planets and soon multiple dyn core container hubs to "chain" the ore to the surface. You are kind of killing casual mining done by new players.
-industry, currently something a player can start right after the tutorial, and while it takes time to make money, you may at least save money. You block this for new players.
-pvp, how long would it take a newish player to go from a base on alioth and an S core hauler until he wins his first skirmish? 40h, 200h? I have no idea.
-traveling merchant, playing markets, needs initial money and therefore useless for new players.
 
Instead of introducing something that is actually fun, you add more tedium and kill new player experience.
 
New players already have a hard time, as plenty of game mechanics that make the game a LOT easier are not learnable by just paying attention and playing.
 
-Market UI is a convoluted mess, most new players (watch a noob stream) just farm their nanopack full of ore, bring it to the market and sell hematite for 6q/l.
-Also nice is waiting for your nanocrafter to finish something and being unable to mine as you dont have inventory (just give the STU some inventory space, no way to abuse that for anything. Bonus points for automatically making it linked container on initial placement).
-New players actually think there is a core limit and may take stuff apart to be able to make something else. BTW, why do you make it look like there is a core limit?
 
There would be less need for more (buggy) tutorials if the less was more intuitive, less contradicting and didn’t hide a lot of information for no reason.
 
Market bots
 
There is no issue with bots buying a variety of item at bad prices. The issue is that if you (or another beta key character of yours) skills hema/coal/steel/steel honeycomb making to five, you can buy hema and coal for 37 and 27 from players and make 112 quanta for every 100 quanta you spent (more if you buy lower). Some few players utilize this to make large amounts of money. I would guess about 30% of all hematite dug out is currently deleted that way every day.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BL2GJSVaGz0cdTzy-bgDbtlqBBTXCjH5YTqR0IiQciY/edit?usp=sharing

This is not a way to "inject money into the economy", this is a way to delete massive amount of ore that could be turned into ships, bases and other things at lower price. It just favours players who went a very boring way, helped by multiple accounts, to make large amounts of money while harming the other players. 

When players want to talk about market bots, the do not mean a way to, if at a small loss, buy/sell things that no players wants at that market at that time, they mean the 10 million litres of ore being deleted every day. Every time a dev is asked about this, including today, it seems they are irritated people dislike them. Unless one of them says "we are aware that multiple million litres hematite each day are sold to bots by a low amount of individuals" I continue to believe the devs are unaware of the scale of the issue.

Schematics

Mixed feeling, I, like many others here, think at least t1 stuff, maybe just M assembler and smaller, should be free of schematics or those schematics should be so cheap you already save money if you only make 5 adjustors. Otherwise, see above, you just gatekeep a feature in a game that already doesn’t have a lot of things to do.

What I dislike more than the cost, is that it will add a lot of tedium again. It already takes quite long to set up industry. 
-place them
-link them (which quickly leads to multi-second freezes. Game leaves full screen mode if you hit escape)
-for every single unit:
     -engage unit and select wanted item
             -if transfer unit, manually enter name of item, as "only show doable" requires a far higher minimum amount than batch size
     -select mode/amount
     NEW click on schematic, check inventory for schematic item, find the correct one, move to slot, confirm
     -press start
connect output container to whatever needs the stuff


This is not "hard" as in "challenging", this is "hard" as in "tedious and boring". The former you want in a game, the latter you do not.

Imagine you had to fly a ship like that! Activate every single engine, manually type in "main thrust". Check brake fluid on every brake. Set "left/right/up/down/forward/back" on every single adjustor. Set wings to lift. Select keybind for every landing gear. Set altitude for hovers and boosters. Manually link all elements to cockpit. Place relays if number exceeds 10.
You get the idea? This is not fun. There is not even a way to be good or bad at it, there is no way to fail or be proud if you got it done. What sounds silly for making a ship is reality for industry though.

Information policy

Not posting the info of the stream in writing is just rude. Writing is easier to auto translate. People would do it for free if supported. Written is easier to quote or to check. Text can be read half and continued later. Written is easier to understand for us foreigners, especially if accents are involved.

Any info officially given is super vague and only explains intentions without any details. Some random factory will cost 150B, why even give us the number if we do not know the factory? Is the schematic an actual inventory item? You already have the UI, why not show it? Why mix actually developed and set stuff like schematics with talk about t5 engines which are months away? The game has a lot of problems regarding normal casual gameplay. People usually don’t start the game as part of a team, they start as a solo player, stay if they have fun and maybe join an org if they meet nice players and want to tackle end game goals. You keep on ignoring normal everyday questions and issues and talk about large scale things that do not affect dirty casuals.
 
The info you dropped today would have been pure gold in the hands of players who get it early and can be sure about it. This kind of insider info must kept secret and made open public for all players at the same time, well ahead of the actual changes. Sharing it with a few random players is just rude. The bad thing the leaks showed was not the info leaked, it was the fact that you share info like this with some select players who can use if for massive profit.


Sidenote while you are reading this wall anyway
 
We get it, you can make things really pretty in this game. Very round, lots of smooth tool, look at these shapes and colours. It would be nice if people with a bit more interest in physic or engineering games had something usefull to do. Currently every ship is just a list of parts, placement does not matter above a very low skill floor. It would also be nice if you decided to ever fix the element number bug and a large (winged) ship flying at 500 kilometers per hour would be able to move more than 200 kilometers within an hour.

Please remember, it is absolutely right that players often do not know the best solution for a problem, but if many people say there is a problem, there is likely a problem.

Can there please be some rule to keep on topic in these NQ made posts? (and posts breaking it please be removed?)

Anyway, what happens if I want to change the schematic? Do I need to manually take the old one out and put the new one in? This would mean only dedicated lines make sense. Can the game at least automatically check if I have the recipe for whatever I set the machine to in my inventory and apply it? It already takes hours to make the most simple things because of all the tedium, server lag and lack of QoL features. I totally get what you are trying to to do, but if it means I need to do even more un-fun repetetive tasks that don’t feel like a game, I don’t know how much longer I stay.
 
Do some kinda schematic storage, connect it to the core. Let the game take/put back recipes automatically and you have your desired effect without extra tedium.

This is strictly talking pve.
 
Just like you can not be good at waiting for the bus, there is little to be said about ship building skills.
 
More voxels mean more mass without any non cosmetic benefit.
Obstruction is bad, but easily avoided.
Mass (HUB) to the middle, adjuster to the outside.

Those are the basic rules, as long as you follow them any ship is only a partlist. Give me and 5 other players the parts and we will each end up with a roughly equally good ship, and character (not player) skills have far more impact compared to any amount of thought put into the design, and that is sad.
 
It would be quite simple to fix this without killing any "normal" ships:
-get rid of the "what propels you can not turn you" rule, ships with all wings in the back should pitch forward.
-Wings/Ailerons/stabs keep their current stats, but try to counter any unintentional rotation by increasing lift by up to 50% (or whatever) at the cost of increased drag. So an unbalanced ship still works perfectly fine but may start tipping at high cargo mass. It will also have slightly higher fuel consumption/decreased topspeed.
-Same with engines, if you have most engines high up, they will have to run at reduced power so your ship does not tip forward. Which means you still fly, but less efficient.

So this would allow practical builder to actually shine and at the same time not destroy all other bots, it would just mean thoughtless building is less efficient.

Currently what you see on the pic works, just sort everything alphabetically and smack it on.

This is strictly talking pve.
 
Just like you can not be good at waiting for the bus, there is little to be said about ship building skills.
 
More voxels mean more mass without any non cosmetic benefit.
Obstruction is bad, but easily avoided.
Mass (HUB) to the middle, adjuster to the outside.

Those are the basic rules, as long as you follow them any ship is only a partlist. Give me and 5 other players the parts and we will each end up with a roughly equally good ship, and character (not player) skills have far more impact compared to any amount of thought put into the design, and that is sad.
 
It would be quite simple to fix this without killing any "normal" ships:
-get rid of the "what propels you can not turn you" rule, ships with all wings in the back should pitch forward.
-Wings/Ailerons/stabs keep their current stats, but try to counter any unintentional rotation by increasing lift by up to 50% (or whatever) at the cost of increased drag. So an unbalanced ship still works perfectly fine but may start tipping at high cargo mass. It will also have slightly higher fuel consumption/decreased topspeed.
-Same with engines, if you have most engines high up, they will have to run at reduced power so your ship does not tip forward. Which means you still fly, but less efficient.

So this would allow practical builder to actually shine and at the same time not destroy all other bots, it would just mean thoughtless building is less efficient.

Currently what you see on the pic works, just sort everything alphabetically and smack it on.

So if I DC during landing and no player is nearby I log in again and may be able to get into the seat and land carefully.

If another player flies close to me as I DC, my craft is destroyed.
 
Not the best solution, or did I understand something wrong?

This is strictly talking pve.
 
Just like you can not be good at waiting for the bus, there is little to be said about ship building skills.
 
More voxels mean more mass without any non cosmetic benefit.
Obstruction is bad, but easily avoided.
Mass (HUB) to the middle, adjuster to the outside.

Those are the basic rules, as long as you follow them any ship is only a partlist. Give me and 5 other players the parts and we will each end up with a roughly equally good ship, and character (not player) skills have far more impact compared to any amount of thought put into the design, and that is sad.
 
It would be quite simple to fix this without killing any "normal" ships:
-get rid of the "what propels you can not turn you" rule, ships with all wings in the back should pitch forward.
-Wings/Ailerons/stabs keep their current stats, but try to counter any unintentional rotation by increasing lift by up to 50% (or whatever) at the cost of increased drag. So an unbalanced ship still works perfectly fine but may start tipping at high cargo mass. It will also have slightly higher fuel consumption/decreased topspeed.
-Same with engines, if you have most engines high up, they will have to run at reduced power so your ship does not tip forward. Which means you still fly, but less efficient.

So this would allow practical builder to actually shine and at the same time not destroy all other bots, it would just mean thoughtless building is less efficient.

Currently what you see on the pic works, just sort everything alphabetically and smack it on.

Total amount donated: 1100$
 
A pot winners (the pot with the most swapping opportunity, dear winners pls ask if somebody wants to swap)
Destiny III: Gondhar
Spruce Goose: Gunner_RageBlackout
Beta key (AngryDadGaming): fpsrawb (Crazymakers used it for you)
Destiny II: MarshallSills
Thunderstruck Anal Power: PlayThePlanet
Beta Key (Donated by Rick): Maceon
Destiny II: CrazyMakers
MK4 Cummings: LGFRBCSGO
Chinsweater fuel refinery: Narkcast
3 Scanners: DaChris
XL Gate: DJU
3 Scanners: SBesty
XL Gate: DingoX3Gamer
 
B pot winners
Cicada: Jackcrash
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Maceon
Hawkmoth: Styles
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Shamsie
Scarab: DingoX3gamer
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Danoweb
Strider: PlayThePlanet
 
C pot winners:
Buzzsaw: DJU
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Maceon
Dragonfly H: PlaythePlanet
Dragonfly A: Gunner_Rageblackout
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Charlemagen
Bumblebee H: DingoX3Gamer
Hornet: Blackcat
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Jackcrash
Dragonfly A: Marshall Sills
Bumblebee A: RickTriesSomeVideoGames (Rawb picked it up for you)
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Redlight
Murder Hornet: Gondhar
Wasp: K3rmit
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Gunner_RageBlackout
Wasp: K3rmit
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Maceon
Support stuff pack: PlayThePlanet
mil L atmo engine: Gondhar
Support stuff pack: RickTriesSomeVideoGames (Rawb picked it up for you)
mil L atmo engine: DJU
Support stuff pack: Redlight
mil L atmo engine: Blackcat

Total amount donated: 1100$
 
A pot winners (the pot with the most swapping opportunity, dear winners pls ask if somebody wants to swap)
Destiny III: Gondhar
Spruce Goose: Gunner_RageBlackout
Beta key (AngryDadGaming): fpsrawb (Crazymakers used it for you)
Destiny II: MarshallSills
Thunderstruck Anal Power: PlayThePlanet
Beta Key (Donated by Rick): Maceon
Destiny II: CrazyMakers
MK4 Cummings: LGFRBCSGO
Chinsweater fuel refinery: Narkcast
3 Scanners: DaChris
XL Gate: DJU
3 Scanners: SBesty
XL Gate: DingoX3Gamer
 
B pot winners
Cicada: Jackcrash
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Maceon
Hawkmoth: Styles
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Shamsie
Scarab: DingoX3gamer
Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker: Danoweb
Strider: PlayThePlanet
 
C pot winners:
Buzzsaw: DJU
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Maceon
Dragonfly H: PlaythePlanet
Dragonfly A: Gunner_Rageblackout
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Charlemagen
Bumblebee H: DingoX3Gamer
Hornet: Blackcat
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Jackcrash
Dragonfly A: Marshall Sills
Bumblebee A: RickTriesSomeVideoGames (Rawb picked it up for you)
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Redlight
Murder Hornet: Gondhar
Wasp: K3rmit
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Gunner_RageBlackout
Wasp: K3rmit
Black N Yellow pocket rocket: Maceon
Support stuff pack: PlayThePlanet
mil L atmo engine: Gondhar
Support stuff pack: RickTriesSomeVideoGames (Rawb picked it up for you)
mil L atmo engine: DJU
Support stuff pack: Redlight
mil L atmo engine: Blackcat

Hey there, 
saturday afternoon (EU) and likely the whole day and night I do a charity. There will be some activities and of course a big raffle.
Plenty of people donated so we got lots of stuff to give away, what we need now is people joining and wanting to get some of it!
 
Ristlin dontates two of her destiny II ships: 
https://du-creators.org/makers/Dream Designs by Ristlin/ship/Destiny II - Cargo Edition
 
And even a destiny III with AGG:
https://du-creators.org/makers/Dream Designs by Ristlin/ship/Destiny III - Cargo Edition
 
Xennon threw in a whole bunch of S and XS haulers. Visit his showroom via VR as this picture doesnt even include them all:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/776537131501223946/776580396892422144/unknown.png
 
SmokingChaos gave us one of his shiny Buzzsaws, if you ever want to do something, anything, but it has to happen FAST:
https://du-creators.org/makers/SmokingChaos/ship/SCS Buzzsaw
 
I am giving away a copy of my "Spruce Goose" heavy S-core hauler, highest cargo mass so far 2.8kt into space from alioth. Screw style, the goose can lift. 
There will be different pots, each pot will include more and more items as more money is collected. best and worst case scenario is I have to add some of my own currently used ships.
 
Pots:
 
Pot A : 20$ and up (17€, 27AUD, please check rest yourself)
Will start with the "Destiny III", every 60$ in the pot will add the following in order:  
* Spruce Goose
* beta key (donated by Angrydadgaming)
* Destiny II
* Thunderstruck anal power
* beta key (donated by Ricktriessomevideogames)
* Destiny II
* Pack of 3 scanners or an XL gate, alternating
 
Pot B : 5$ - 20$ will start with a "Cicada", every 20$ in the pot will add the following in order:
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Hawkmoth
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Scarab
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Strider
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Warpdrives, lots of warp drives
 
Pot  C : 1$ - 5$ will start with a "SCS Buzzsaw", every 3$ in the pot will add the following in order:
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Dragonfly H
* Dragonfly A
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Bumblebee H
* Hornet
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Dragonfly A
* Bumblebee A
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Murder Hornet
* Wasp
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Wasp
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* (Likely more of the Xennon ships because I screwed up with the parts)
* Support packs (2x each brake L, verts L, wings L, adjustors L) and Military L engines, alternating

The VR-pod location is called "Charity event location Gottchar" if you want to have a look around. Feel free to visit my factory if your hardware supports it (you have been warned).
 
If you want to contribute DU items or services (would be nice to get those ships boosted) please contact me via discord (Gottchar).
 
Money will be donated via extra-life.org, make sure to use my donation link and include your DU-Name and if possible discord name or other way to reach you. 
https://www.extra-life.org/participant/Gottchar
 
Hope to see you saturday
 
Gottchar
PS: I am not allowed to advertise it in the discord outside of the content creator channel which sees little traffic. So if somebody feels like mentioning it, I would be grateful!

(some ships may need a few days to be ready/cleaned, check out what is on site via VR pod)

Regarding the forum, I think it is a very bad idea to have general discussions so high up.
 
By having it at the top, even including the "for stuff not covered by other forums", everybody just posts there. If you really want people post in the correct subforum, the rest that isnt covered by other stuff should be at the bottom of the page. 

Will write some more detailed stuff after the weekend, but that one just stands out, a lot.

Hey there, 
saturday afternoon (EU) and likely the whole day and night I do a charity. There will be some activities and of course a big raffle.
Plenty of people donated so we got lots of stuff to give away, what we need now is people joining and wanting to get some of it!
 
Ristlin dontates two of her destiny II ships: 
https://du-creators.org/makers/Dream Designs by Ristlin/ship/Destiny II - Cargo Edition
 
And even a destiny III with AGG:
https://du-creators.org/makers/Dream Designs by Ristlin/ship/Destiny III - Cargo Edition
 
Xennon threw in a whole bunch of S and XS haulers. Visit his showroom via VR as this picture doesnt even include them all:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/776537131501223946/776580396892422144/unknown.png
 
SmokingChaos gave us one of his shiny Buzzsaws, if you ever want to do something, anything, but it has to happen FAST:
https://du-creators.org/makers/SmokingChaos/ship/SCS Buzzsaw
 
I am giving away a copy of my "Spruce Goose" heavy S-core hauler, highest cargo mass so far 2.8kt into space from alioth. Screw style, the goose can lift. 
There will be different pots, each pot will include more and more items as more money is collected. best and worst case scenario is I have to add some of my own currently used ships.
 
Pots:
 
Pot A : 20$ and up (17€, 27AUD, please check rest yourself)
Will start with the "Destiny III", every 60$ in the pot will add the following in order:  
* Spruce Goose
* beta key (donated by Angrydadgaming)
* Destiny II
* Thunderstruck anal power
* beta key (donated by Ricktriessomevideogames)
* Destiny II
* Pack of 3 scanners or an XL gate, alternating
 
Pot B : 5$ - 20$ will start with a "Cicada", every 20$ in the pot will add the following in order:
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Hawkmoth
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Scarab
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Strider
* Powerbeard F12 Redhawk Stryker
* Warpdrives, lots of warp drives
 
Pot  C : 1$ - 5$ will start with a "SCS Buzzsaw", every 3$ in the pot will add the following in order:
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Dragonfly H
* Dragonfly A
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Bumblebee H
* Hornet
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Dragonfly A
* Bumblebee A
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Murder Hornet
* Wasp
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* Wasp
* Black N yellow Pocketrocket
* (Likely more of the Xennon ships because I screwed up with the parts)
* Support packs (2x each brake L, verts L, wings L, adjustors L) and Military L engines, alternating

The VR-pod location is called "Charity event location Gottchar" if you want to have a look around. Feel free to visit my factory if your hardware supports it (you have been warned).
 
If you want to contribute DU items or services (would be nice to get those ships boosted) please contact me via discord (Gottchar).
 
Money will be donated via extra-life.org, make sure to use my donation link and include your DU-Name and if possible discord name or other way to reach you. 
https://www.extra-life.org/participant/Gottchar
 
Hope to see you saturday
 
Gottchar
PS: I am not allowed to advertise it in the discord outside of the content creator channel which sees little traffic. So if somebody feels like mentioning it, I would be grateful!

(some ships may need a few days to be ready/cleaned, check out what is on site via VR pod)

While I can’t help you I wanted to use the opportunity to say:
 
Screw everybody who leaves his ship/constructs on the market, on purpose, for no reason. Nobody cares about your ship or corp, take it away. 

The high amount of crafts at markets which are not just parked for some shopping are a problem.
 
They are unsightly and limit parking space on one hand, which can be seen as more of an RP issue for some, but they also reduce performance for players with low or mid range computers. There are plenty of people who said they had to skip the tutorial as their frame rate was far too low.

I suggest something is done about. A few examples:
 
- Parking fee. As you park on the parking deck a timer starts in the background. If you stay for 30m or more or leave the cell without taking all your cores with you, you get a pop up informing you of the parking fee. Should your craft stay for another hour or longer, the fee is taken from your account or taken of your next log in money. It would slowly increase, similar to the TU placement cost. Something like 10k for a full day, 40, 90, 160, 250 etc for the following. It could also be auto-impounded after 24h, and you can get it again at the ship store.
 
- Have multiple parking decks close to the market, parking there automatically despawns your craft and teleports you to the market. Your containers are still available. If no advertisement crafts are visible when parking, hopefully the people will not try to leave their crafts at or close to the markets. The market itself gets a larger no-fly zone. 
Please only introduce this after a good amount of testing and if the several current container link bugs are fixed.
 
- Make crafts not load anymore, if they have been standing still for long enough. So if I, as a player, arrive at the market, I only load and see ships that have landed withing the last 6 hours (or my own ships). I would not see the permanent advertisements etc. Any machine in the game has its own timer anyway, when a craft lands in a public tile (user exits control seat) the timer starts. For the owner of a craft nothing changes.
 
I hope there can be some discussion about the issue and a solution can be found.

The Problem:
Currently almost everybody is a miner to some extend, but the tools and talents do not lead to a substantial growth in ore gain. While more machines lead to more machines, ore is gained at a rather static rate. This of course has a good side, as otherwise the whole planet would look like an advanced factorio world in a month. Still, the boringness and unscalability of mining not only hinders unlimited growth, which is good, it also limits trade and specialization, you may have noticed how ore usually sells for more than whatever you can build with the ore.
 
Solution:
Allow people to become dedicated miners, but in such a way that it needs constant dedication and effort to have a well working mining operation. Just like a factory always needs some tweaking, changing and expanding (hopefully even more in the future), a stripmine should not just be set up and  generally and constantly generate ores when this is done, but need supervision.
 
The idea:
 
Enviromental changes:
Instead of just useless dirt and high value ore, there should be something in between. Soil with a certain amount of minerals, or "low yield ore" if you like that better. Soil with a 1% hematite (iron) content would mean it is too tedious for normal mining, but if you had a more large scale operation it would be worth it.
 
The following elements/items for a stripmine:
- A static scanner
- Static drills/extractors: These are set certain grid coordinates and just extract all minerals in those coordinates. Imagine seperating your land into cubes the size of a static core L, each drill would try to work a cube of that size. Selecting the drill gives you an interface that lets you choose a depth (in 100m steps) and a 2d grid of squares, pick on and go. You can not queue them up. Assuming you have a scanner, some or all of those grids were already scanned, so you can choose whatever you think is best currently. (sidenote, while I call them drills, they are not actually drills, they are more like your mining tool)
- Oil: Oil is like fuel for drills, they always need a little, made in chem industry. Higher tier oils may lead to better yield/speed.
- Soil seperator: Like a refinery, but for mineral rich soil. So for example "Hematite rich soil" goes in, "Hematite" comes out.
 
Also, sooner or later (as there is currently no regeneration) you will have to pack it all in again, move it a mile and set it up again.
 
Conclusion:
I hope it is evident that I would not want to upset the whole economy and flood the markets with a huge supply of afk farmed raw materials. But I do think there should be a way for dedicated mining operations which on one hand lead to yield, but on the other are not too simple and can just be left alone for a week to come back and find 100 full L containers.