Mordgier
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Posts posted by Mordgier
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20 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:
I've worked with a lot of purchased codebases and it's often the brand and market position the boss is buying (which could happen with DU), not purely the tech.
Come to think of it - the only case of a major studio's code actually being taken over by somebody else and development being continued rather than going on life support that I can think of was Hellgate London. They also didn't 'buy' it - they 'owned' it as being the primary investor for Flagship studios who when going under turned over ownership to Hanbit.
Even in that case, the continued development was merely a few steps away from life support. Basically a few additions and repackaging efforts to resell the game a few times.
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7 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:
Either you understand game development and programing in general far better then me or its the opposite.
To me, games can change the engine.
Or, they can learn from other's code how to create aditional layers of logic on top of the engine they have.
Changing the game engine is like changing the unibody of a car.
You can do it.
But you're basically building a whole new car from scratch - and it would cost you more to do a body swap than to just...buy a brand new car.
Taking a game off one engine and putting on another is the same way in pretty much every imaginable way.
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17 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:
Realistically all we can do is post speculations and wait. So no change for us, until there is..
We can speculate and we can also see that the previous job listings that NQ had are gone and that the number of employees on LinkedIn for NQ actually dropped.
It's all guesses and speculation.
As I and many others have been saying for 9 months now, this game is repeating Worlds Adrift's mistakes all over again.
So grab the popcorn and hope for a cool server shut down event - but given the quality of other events, don't get your hopes up.
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43 minutes ago, Uajrh1 said:
this game pretty decently when you're a fair distance from the districts.
Yeah - it runs pretty good at the menu too - but when you know actually try to play it and you know - build a giant base - like you're supposed to....
14 hours ago, jdalto said:Well should do it from the same factory and make this an accurate comparison
lol - you're not going to make me reinstall this that easily!
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12 minutes ago, jdalto said:
I’m running a ryzen 1600 standard clock ,1080ti ,32g ram pretty old pc now and it runs du awesomely only get the occasional Sutter when first approaching high construct areas
Post your resolution and FPS while walking through a factory.
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16 minutes ago, FuriousPuppy said:
I wish all T4 and T5 ore was in the pvp zone on asteroids only. No AGGs or rare engines for the guys that never leave safezone unless they are willing to risk a ship to get it. would instantly give the pvp scene a huge bump since everyone on alioth wants a multi core AGG RP carrier of some kind and has 0 interest in pvp to begin with. They dont need chances or better tutorials.. they need a reason to enter pvp space as well all need one
That's all fine and good and how it should be - but the problem is that PvP is awful and forcing people who already hate the mining grind into a mining grind in no man's land isn't going to prove fruitful.
Think about it - how do you envision mining in pvp space.
In EVE you had local and as soon as you saw a red - you warped to saftey - or you had alts logged in neighboring systems as an early warning system.
How do you do it in DU? You have someone sitting on the ship staring at the radar while someone mines?
JC has refused any consideration for automated defenses of any kind so mining these ores will never be a solo effort. Grouping activities are generally a great thing for a game - but the reality is that mining in pvp space in DU would be mindnumbingly dull for at least the person hanging out on the radar.
Never mind the elephant in the room - which is that pvp wouldn't actually happen. You see a hostile contact on the radar, you warp.
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4 minutes ago, Yamamoto said:
But the current state of the forums in my opinion is off-putting to anyone interested in the game. Maybe with a good reason for some people, but definitely not for all.
Is that really surprising though?
Sift through 6 months of this forum.
You'll see the general shift in the community from hope and optimism to frustration, disappointment and finally resignation.
For the bulk of us, what the game is, what the game is turning into, pace of progress, dev responses to exploits have been unsatisfactory.
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9 minutes ago, Yamamoto said:
For you it might have low FPS, for someone else might run great. Some people might have an awesome time while playing, others might hate the game, the important thing is that everyone remains civil and not enforce their opinion on others. So to answer your question - Yes, for me this is the pinnacle of toxicity.
If it doesn't run great for me, there is nobody it runs great for. 5950x and a 3090 doesn't get good performance out of this game. What does? A rendering farm?
Either way, my personal experience is that this game runs poorly on top of the line hardware. I know of nobody who is happy with the performance of the game.
There is nothing toxic about the community voicing their performance issues with the game.
The fact that the game has experienced a massive player base drop-off is also simply just that - a fact. I think it's fair and honest to tell anyone considering this game that the player-base is a fraction of what it once was.
These things are not toxic.
Yes these things are bad for the game, yes they drive away new players - but they are not dishonest nor toxic.
That's simply not what toxic means. Opinions and feedback you disagree with are not toxic.
This game is not in a good state. It does not run well. It is not balanced. It is not feature complete by a long shot. The gameplay loop is tedious. The grind is atrocious and all there is. The building tools are frustrating. Do factory lines still break down with "Unknown Error"?
You can argue that plenty of people have fun with the game - but the counterpoint is that most people didn't - that's why most of them are gone.
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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:
Also NQ: proceed to release the patch ignoring most if not all of the feedback and rush in some new untested stuff in the process..
Business as usual and you and I know it.
Who still remembers this:
https://upvote.dualuniverse.game/
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1 hour ago, XKentX said:
Do you hate your friends so much ?
What did they do ?
DU is the new Bad Rats game that you gift to your friends as a cruel joke.
Then again...Bad Rats was $1 and feature complete...
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13 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
Cloud gaming services are a bit of a different thing than firing up a virtual machine on your desktop...EQU8 certainly is no fan of vmware...
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12 hours ago, blazemonger said:
Also not correct, DU will not run under WINE because EQU8 does not work under WINE, that is not the same as blocking you from running the game as a set condition to do so.
I mean....semantics and all that. I have asked NQ multiple times about running DU in a VM and have been told that EQU8 cannot be run in a VM or via WINE or KVM.
If you think DU can be run in a VM without ending up on the banlist - you're welcome to spin one up and report back. I still have some tiny hope that this game will stop being a complete waste of money so I'm less than eager to go testing on my own accounts.
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16 hours ago, Arctic_fox said:
I wonder where VMs fall into this.....Its technically one machine but its also technically not.
EQU8 prevent from running DU in a VM. You can try to obscure the fact that it's a VM, or bypass EQU8 - both will get you banned if you screw up. People have already been banned for using a VM to run DU.
EQU8 also blocks WINE.
It's not uncommon for anticheat software to block and ban VMs due to their common usage to bypass bans by being able to flip hardware IDs on the fly - which is a big deal for F2P games.
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5 hours ago, Thugaar said:
Yes, I do. I am not willing to buy a $2.5 K rig just to play DU (or any other game for that matter). And yes, Cyberpunk 2077 IS a disaster. Sony took it off from their sales page b/c of reasons. Never happened before in history. Again for reasons.Amazing hot take....
DU runs WAY worse on my PC than cyberpunk...
Troll elsewhere - all your posts are moaning about how bad CP is...I've sunk 36 hours in so far and can't complain...
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Yesterday I made a ‘top of my head’ style post of how schematics could have been made good, achieved the goals of creating industry specialization, expanding the gameplay loop while not crippling the existing players.
I’m going to expand on this now as much as I can.
Goals:
Maintain the ability of solo players and small groups to stay self sufficient for the basic ship building.
Create a gameplay loop around schematic development that does not involve bots.
Create a use for ‘damaged’ elements.
Create a progression system for developing schematics.
Inject a finite number of end game schematics that will allow the owners to maintain a market nice.
Games we are basing the mechanics on:
SWTOR Research system.
Path of Exile Divination Card system.
Tier 1 – Basic Technology
This is current stage of human technology that is publicly known. For a contemporary example – think the “Internal Combustion Engine”. You and I may not know how to build one off the top of our head – but we can easily find full blown instructions and even schematics on google at no cost.
In the game, the vast majority of elements we have currently fall in this category. We do not need to buy a schematic or research one – we know how to build space engines, we know how to build atmospheric engines and so on.
Tier 2 – Advanced and Proprietary technology
This is the pinnacle of human technology that goes beyond common and public knowledge. There are two categories in Tier 2 that require schematics:
Propriety Technology and Advanced Technology.
Propriety technology is NPC created unique items that players do not know how to build and cannot research due to licensing restricitons such as patents etc. For a contemporary example – an Internal Combustion Engine with variable compression rate – we know some companies have developed the technology, but we don’t know how to make it ourselves. We would need to license such technology to build from it.
Things that fall into this category and require purchasing a schematic from the bots:
AGG, Warp Drives, L cores and so on
Advanced Technology is player created by ‘analyzing’ Tier 1 items. When an element is ‘analyzed’ it is pushed to it’s limits until destroyed and knowledge is gained about how it can be improved. A brand new item can be analyzed, or a partially damaged item.
The difficulty of developing an item will vary on the complexity of the item being analyzed and the results are unpredictable (but can be steered, more on that later)
Example of how it could work.
I have a Basic Space Engine S and would like to develop and Advanced Space Engine S.
The Space Engine has a complexity rating of 20.
I toss a brand new Basic Space Engine S in an analyzer and the following formula is applied to identify the progress made towards a BP:
((100-<Complexity>)/50)* RNG(1 to <Analysis Skill>)*<Item Repairs Left>
The Basic Space Engine S has a complexity rating of 20.
My analysis skill is at 3.
So the formula results in:
((100-20)/50)*RNG(1 to 3)*3
Let’s say the RNG gods bless me and I roll a 3 – the result is: 14.4 points progress.
I’m sure NQ could come up with a better formula for this – but you get the idea.
Once you have accumulated 100 points in the analyzer you get a schematic for a variant of Advanced Space Engine S which is 10% improved in a random trait. For example, we may get a Responsive Advanced Space Engine S which has faster warmup time.
Which schematic is generated the first time is entirely random.
We can further steer the direction of research to ensure that we do not get duplicates. To ensure we do not get a duplicate schematic with faster warmup time, we have to feed an engine with that trait into the analyzer – we can do this with multiple engines. For example if we are seeking more power and already have engine variants with all the other traits boosted to 10%, we can load them all in and be guaranteed to get a 10% more power engine as the end result.
Finally, we can research an “Pinnacle Space Engine S” which has 5% improvement to all stats by feeding every single variant into the analyzer.
The above system is not limited to just ship elements, it can be applied to all elements with stats, anything from containers that hold more, to assemblers that work faster and so on.
Tier 3 – Future Tech
This should be introduced with the new solar system. We are the first humans in that system, but someone was here before us. There are technology fragments that can be found when mining in asteroids, deep underground or in wrecks. Completing a full artifact and analyzing it will produce a tier 3 schematic. These cannot be further improved.
Some artifacts can be extremely rare and the number of them seeded should be finite with more added as the game progresses. The number fragments that you need to complete will vary depending on the element – an XL engine could have 100 and an XS just 5 and so on. The fragments can be sold and are rare enough that it is impractical for an individual to find all the fragments to complete a set without trading for some.
There is a finite number of fragments and not everyone or even every org will be able to get one. The players that can get one will have limited competition on the pricing of the final items. If any one org is able to gain a monopoly on a schematic or they exit the game via inactive players, more are injected into the system.
Not all Tier 2 items have a Tier 3 counterpart.
Tier 4 - Alien Tech
This is ultra-rare technology that can only be acquired through in game events etc. This is the actual alien technology that we are trying to replicate in Tier 3 – except this is the real deal. These can only be acquired through events etc and are a cosmetic upgrade from Tier 3. Ultra exclusive, ultra rare, and largely a cosmetic bragging rights item.
- Emptiness and Orangeferret
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53 minutes ago, Dhara said:
These are ALL excellent ideas! This is what we want; actual challenges, not just mind-numbing excessive time-sinks.
The sad thing is none of these suggestions are revolutionary - all of these are rehashes from existing mechanics in other games.
Countless games had item fragments you had to collect and trade to get a complete item - path of exile cards are a prefect example of that mechanic. You will almost never complete a set of the rarer cards yourself but you would trade for them with other players to get a complete set.The scarcity can be tuned easily on the server side to inject blueprints early on or slow down the progression to create scarcity as needed. It's pretty easy for the game to have mechanics in place to keep seeding BPs until there is a set number of completed BPs and they are controlled by at least several different orgs to prevent monopolization of any one BP to maintain a healthy economy.
If the goal is to force industry specialization - the only way to do this is via limited BPs.
JC's argument of "You won't make your own iphone!" is silly because the reason there aren't 500,000 random factories making iPhones is patents. If they could get away with it, they'd be selling $400 Huawei 'iphones' at every corner. Limiting BPs creates the same situation where only certain entities will be able to make certain things.
Mining ships are nothing new. Empyrion has them Space Engineers has them.. The fact that DU does not have mining ships continues to blow my mind.
Like - how is this NOT a thing in DU?!
In Empyrion you could only mount drills on a hovercraft which meant that a mining op involved flying your capital ship with some hovercraft to a planet, landing, unloading the HVs and mining with the HVs. While your capital ship was landed on the planet it was vulnerable due to capital ship weapons being less effective in atmosphere. So often you'd actually end up having to have a friend drop off some HVs, hide the capital ship in deep space, come back in a small ship and help mine in a hovercraft before going back to bring the capship to scoop everyone up and return to safety. Or you would leave the capital ship on the planet but also unload some defensive hovercraft which had strong atmospheric weapons to defend the capital ship. Handmining in Empyrion was what newbies did for the first day - and then never again.
In Empyrion our 'mining' hovercraft were basically tanks that could also mine to ensure that if we did get caught by some hostile players we wouldn't get slaughtered. My luckiest mining op resulted in finding a landed capital ship while piloting my hovercraft and blowing it up. Less lucky one ended with me running into another hovercraft and taking an artillery shell to the face....but that's what made it fun.
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48 minutes ago, Deintus said:
I know that on their road map to completion they have slated "mining units for automation" but no clue when that will be or what that means.
Don't worry. They have no clue either.
They just said it'll be tied to a zone and will come after territory warfare which is slated to arrive...........¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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55 minutes ago, Raker1 said:
Mining alone will not keep players happy until more content trickles out especially as some planets resemble Swiss cheese
Yeah but that's largely because mining in DU is terrible. It's a space ship game where you mine by hand. Make ships mine and it's a better game right away.
It's absolute lunacy that we are hand mining in a space ship game.
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Get rid of schematics for the current schematic implementation.
Warp Drives, L cores, AGG etc can be considered to be sufficiently advanced to need schematics.
Add true Tier 2 elements. These do require schematics. They are flat out better than T1 things like the current silly 'military engine' - not a tradeoff in some way. Just - better but more complicated to make. Tier 2 can be bought for elements that do not have a T1 counterpart - like say AGG - or must be researched for things that do.
Add Tier 3 elements - you cannot buy schematics for these. These are not elements we currently know how to make. These need to be researched from found artifacts. They are beyond current human technological level.
Tier 4 element can be added later as schematics can only be acquired as finite drops in the game from events, rare wrecks etc. Call it alien tech or whatever...
Researching a schematic requires you to feed an element into an analyzer which consumes the element but makes some progress towards producing a BP for the higher tier. For example:
You progress your analysis for the BP based on integrity (number of repairs left before it's irreparable) times the simplicity (with some rng thrown in for lulz) of developing the BP. For example say you feed in an engine that has 1 repair left, the simplicity is rated say 5 so you roll the following:
<integrity> * (RND(1,<simplicity>) - so you progress between 1-5 points out of 100 to get a BP for smashing up a busted engine. Feeding in a fresh engine could generate 3-15 points. Skills could be used to increase this.
Tier 3 BPs can be analyzed from artifacts found mining asteroids or in wrecks. They should be made rare enough that it is impractical for an individual to try to find enough of a specific artifact to make progress towards a BP.
Schematic are not limited to ship elements. You could research a tier 2 assembler that is faster than a tier 1 etc.
The above I just pulled out of my ass......so feel free to critique, I won't cry.
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Fix mining.
Add construct mining elements that can be mounted on a XS or S core. They consume raw oxygen and hydrogen to run. (No I'm not going to make them run on ship fuel because that requires ore). The construct is capable of mining in much larger spheres than the hand tool and mined ore is stored inside an ore container. The ore container cannot be looted by hand - can only be jettisoned in which case the ore is lost. You must fly your ship to a static construct or an L core construct that has an ore unloader which empties the container into a linked hub.
There are several goals here.
1 - Get rid of handmining beyond early game. It's not fun. You now have to pilot a ship to mine so piloting skills - both character and player skills matter.
2 - Add complexity to mining - your design actually matters as your construct has to be able to carry the ore out since you can't just empty it via link. You can't just fly your ship off somewhere and mine away by hand - you need to bring your mining ship along and you can't just have a bunch of ore crates as you will want to unload it regularly to keep your mass down or you'll burn too much fuel for it to be viable - or get too heavy and stuck underground and have to jettison ore to get out.
3 - Improves group mining ops by creating a scenario for a dedicated mining L core carrier loaded with XS mining ships and has an ore unloader that is able to empty them into it's containers. As an L core is the minimum size for a dynamic core mounted ore unloader it would be cost prohibitive to have individual players flying around in L cores just to mine (at least for now). Yes they could claim a tile, plop down a static core and an unloader but it would still expand the complexity as currently you do the same thing with dynamic s cores with a bunch of containers.
Also just pulled the above out of my ass....but that's the direction I'd want mining in DU to go.
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18 minutes ago, Revelcro said:
There is virtually nothing they could add to this game to make me want to play this for years. Nothing. It is simply not possible. No game can do that. At best they can squeeze a year or so of game play out. At some point i'm sick of space/sci-fi and will go on to something else. Holy cow what game have you guys been playing?!?
I played EVE from release till 2007 - and only quit because I had moved in with my then GF and now wife and I don't think she would have appreciated me being called on my cellphone at 3am to log my capital into a fleet op...
Had I retained my single neckbeard lifestyle I'd probably still be playing EVE....
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9 minutes ago, OrionSteed said:
Honest question though - do you think that play style would have kept you interested in playing for years?
One would hope that industrial features and complexities would increase over the years with more complex production lines, power systems and hopefully fluids and so on.
But hey - I think DU's industry is fundamentally flawed with the magical links in place of physical connections.
There are so many missed opportunities with DU industry it's not even funny.
So I hear JC got fired?
in General Discussions
Posted
Buying tech is fine but the tech has to be packaged. Engines themselves are a perfect example of that tech. As are APIs, GUIs etc. IIRC NQ themselves use Coherent for the UI. That's the kind of tech you buy, packaged and well documented and easy to plug in to your project and saving you months of effort of deving it in house.
Nothing NQ has is portable to another game without tremendous effort.
NQ holds 2 patents that I'm aware of and only the one for the partitioning has any real value - https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/a7/15/87/2ec4f4e207739a/US10565785.pdf
The other does not. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/44/3d/9e/c0d03c82bee467/US20190279401A1.pdf
Basically the only thing they could do is sell the patents to a holding company and try to hope someone licenses them. With that said, server meshing isn't a new thing and they just hold the patent for THEIR way of doing it - the value there is questionable as well.