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yamamushi

Full PvP or allow player-created PvE zones? (outside of Ark)

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Does anyone have any suggestions for how a player created PvE zone might work? Ideally, one that could be destroyed by players with enough time and effort (hacking, explosions, etc.)...

 

     Buildings outside of the initial Arc "safe area" should not immediately show up on the map or as a marker on screen (as it does in Empyrion), you should have to visit or scan the location.

 

     This will allow players who are a little more cautious time to work out smaller structures or mine, relatively unhindered.

 

     Once you have gained the materials to build larger constructs and buildings, I believe that we should also be able to make shields. These shields could either be stronger (powered) or weaker (non-powered).

 

     Powered shields would consume energy, need to be maintained and would be dual layered, provided general protection within a radius and building protection if a ship flies through the radius.

     These shields could be destroyed with enough firepower, multiple ships several minutes, or through destruction or temporarily turning off the shield generator by a single person or group of individuals (mercenaries, special forces and/or anyone who wants to play a ninja)

 

     Non-powered shields would consume no energy, but would prevent the modification and destruction from hand weapons. Non-powered shields are not destroyed if a ship destroys a building. They would only be destroyed when the generator is destroyed by ship or player.

 

      Placing multiple Powered Shields will not stack or strengthen the overall shield however it would make it more difficult to disable with a ground force, as they would need to either break through with ship firepower or disable all Powered Shield generators.

 

 

 

Arcification Tokens would be rare and still provide the protection outlined in the Devblog.

 

As a Builder this will allow you to protect your own constructs with enough time to call for additional assistance, should you not already have turrets and weapons to defend yourself.

 

Protect yourself and your constructs, or live small in the middle of nowhere where you will not be bothered.

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Guys its called evolution just give empires,republic etc enough time and they might make a more peaceful world just like in real life

 

I seriously doubt it, just go play any true PvP game for an extensive period of time and you will see for yourself that IRL conditions does not exist in PvP games. In games, toxic players will always be toxic because they can, and there is no crime and punishment that will force them to change their bad ways against other players.

 

It is even worst when they can just spend a few IRL dollars and buy everything back in the game cash shop. That is what most PvP (P2P) game devs want you to do in the first place.

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wow, its been a while since I was in a real cat fight over pvp and pve. lol But here's my 2 cents worth...pvpers don't like pve because it gives some players a safe place to hide. Pvpers don't like that, they have egos to feed and so they want to kill anyone, anywhere at anytime. That alone chases a lot of people off of pvp games and to games where they can play...and spend their money...in safety. If there could be a compromise then fine, but that means people would need to agree to compromise, and I really doubt that will happen. It should also be mentioned that some devs are actually pvp players and thats why Indy companies build pvp games, knowing full well that there are dozens of them out there sucking up the few thousand pvpers that play regularly.

 

I personally vote with my wallet and feet. If people listen when I ask things then I feel they are a little more mature than some games where people swear every second and say the same things over and over, even if they are proven wrong. If you're an adult, act like an adult. Just walk away and do something else. New games like this are coming out all the time, and some will surely be less radical than others, so we players always have a choice, and game devs that have a hard time getting more than a few hundred players see the error in their ways...eventually...the people making big money especially on fund raising sites, are the ones trying to add a little soemthing for everyone, and they get more cash to do it then when people know that...lol.

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In the end there's still the option to band together and bash up the people who engage you (for apparently no real reason).

 

If someone attacks you, don't quit. Rebuild, get stronger, fight back or get help. This can in turn become one of the best experiences you can have. While losses can also be the most devastating and fun ruining ones, it's not the end.

 

We were engaged randomly (only tried to do our own business) by random people and we fought back. We had luck (or enough skill) and kicked their butts in retaliation. The best feeling. Some of them even quit (karma I guess).

 

Of course it won't always be easy or feasible but if the universe will be so big here - move to another location or find help somewhere.

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My point is that if we have a system protecting carebears then whats the point of making defense systems and armies?stop playing a game for one of its features and be aware of the rest.

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wow, its been a while since I was in a real cat fight over pvp and pve. lol But here's my 2 cents worth...pvpers don't like pve because it gives some players a safe place to hide. Pvpers don't like that, they have egos to feed 

 

I can see why that stance would derail into catfights...

 

Safe zones don't become a problem for PvP players because PvE players go there, they become a problem because other PvP players can go there, and thus exploit them in various ways that are often perceived as damaging to the PvP dynamic as a whole. This isn't a case of one play style demanding everyone else plays the same style, If this was a server-split game, I wouldn't care if their was a no-PvP server. But when it's all put together, when there's the potential for someone to blow up my base with ships built from a factory that I can't blow up back, that's going to be a problem.

 

Also, it's worth mentioning your perception of PvP is very much screwed to a rare griefer kind, usually of younger years. A lot of PvP players in sandbox games are social PvP players, they aren't looking for the next kill to feed their ego, they like taking part of large organizations with something to loose because they enjoy the politics, the large scale cooperation and strategy, the comradery, the sense of duty and the feeling that you are needed and perhaps most importantly, the sense your actions and choices have consequences. You are right that there's ego food involved, but while you are imagining a 13 years old troll getting off on a kill, it's more often a 35 years old taking a break from a life of circumstances to feel like something they are doing is of value.

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As a mainly PVE player, I usually try to avoid direct PVP as much as possible. I do understand that being on the supply side would make my city/setup/factory a target for opposing PVP players, and understanding that potential threat is part of the fun.

 

This potential threat makes it so that I have to think of ways to defend what I make, by hiding it better, defending it better or using alternate locations to sell the things I make. It is just one more thing to consider when creating. 

 

Destruction of the my creations just means that I can look for a better way to defend it next time. As a PVE player PVP inspires me to create smarter.

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Im pretty sure Tierless means that everyone is a neutral player, but that you can declare your faction loyalty and be open to pvp attack by anyone else that has declared their faction loyalty.

 

Temporary enemy flags existed in SW galaxies, where if you assisted someone that was declared a combatant you became active and could be attacked killed as well until the flag wore off. If you continued healing, or fighting the timer for the flag would continue resetting.

 

It was valuable to decalre yourself as a combatant for various reasons, however in a sandbox like this I could see it being altered in such a way where combat declared people can come in to your peaceful little base and start taking over your territory node. The only way to stop them would be to have either of opposed them in the first place by having combatants, or to go and gather up the posse and get to fighting.

 

If everyone was inherently peaceful instead of inherently hostile it could go a long way to building up the world. Im sure there would come to be plenty of people to fight, after all you could always make an organisation of pirates that are just hostile to everyone else, but at least the option for basic peace could exist.

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If everyone was inherently peaceful instead of inherently hostile it could go a long way to building up the world. Im sure there would come to be plenty of people to fight, after all you could always make an organisation of pirates that are just hostile to everyone else, but at least the option for basic peace could exist.

 

The peace isn't going to exist in a sandbox game because there is nothing telling the players how they should play nice with each other. Players can be as toxic as they like and there is no one to stop them.

 

In most games, the main problem is PvP vs PvE game balance just doesn't exist, hence most PvE with PvP games have battle grounds/arena to avoid this issue. If this game is meant to be sandbox and stays that way, the devs must balance the PvP/PvE players, and not one style being more powerful over the other or because they have been playing longer. Such condition will only push new players easily to get turned off from this game because they cannot out-gear a player that has been playing for months/years.

 

That is why games like DOTA attracts so many players because it is PvP, but yet, no one can never be out-geared by another player as every match everyone starts from ground zero. An up and coming PvP MMO Crowfall calls this "reset mechanics".

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Lets just stop the QQ and sugestions about how to have less pvp, ALL of it is speculation and a lot of people get carried away. It will be open world free for all pvp, end of story. PVP zones and arenas are something that should not exist in new generation sanbox games... Why impose limits in limitless game? Less control is best control. There will be some safe zones and even a virtual test place to build for the sake of building, that should satisfy the desing and engineering bug we all here have.

 

Pvp will help filter out the best designs, pvp is where legends are born.

 

By the way with the sugested tag system it will be possible to create defensive organisations that can tag griefers/bullies as "red" for example, denie them access to organisations services etc. Oportunities are endless. Those organisations doesnot have to be guilds/corps/factions it can be a "treaty" against pirates or what ever. You will be able to set your defences to attack tagged people on site, track and report their locations and so on. There are literaly sooo many ways to tackle pvp just need a bit of creativity and it will ultimately make the game more satisfying, with real sence of achievement.

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Lets just stop the QQ and sugestions about how to have less pvp ... Why impose limits in limitless game? Less control is best control.

...

Pvp will help filter out the best designs, pvp is where legends are born.

...

 

Sorry, IMHO/E free for all PvP doesn't work, and it is just a facade for devs not to program in the proper game balance. EVE has been this way since day one, and it isn't going to change any time soon. It also will not help filter out the best design in a P2P game, but only helps the deep pocket players or those that can scams their fellow players the best.

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Sorry, IMHO/E free for all PvP doesn't work, and it is just a facade for devs not to program in the proper game balance. EVE has been this way since day one, and it isn't going to change any time soon. It also will not help filter out the best design in a P2P game, but only helps the deep pocket players or those that can scams their fellow players the best.

 

sry, but thats just your opinion about it, but that doesn't make it true. 

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Aside from the starting area around the arcship, I feel like if you're logged in you should defend your stuff. 

 

I think if you're a small group of 1-5 and you're all logged out then perhaps there can be an offline protection in place so you don't come back to find all your stuff destroyed. Maybe include a structure limit for this small group, so that after a certain point you should be expected to have some sort of player created offline protection.

 


IOW, we need a symbiotic relationships, not just pray or be prayed. When you have a symbiotic relationship game balance, you attract players from both ends.

 

 

I agree with this statement, but i feel that symbiotic relationships should be community created and not forced by the developers. 

 

This is actually what most of the people in this topic are talking about, PVP players and factions provide protection for the PVE players who are creating or mining the resources they need for exploration.

 

PVP players will likely be the main ones exploring, they can sell the new materials they find to the PVE players who can use it to create something that benefits the PVP players.

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Like Tabula Rosa? a pve game turned pvp because a few hundred demanded it? It lost thousands of players in a year, that's a fact, and the pvp players stayed until the day they closed it...and I do mean THEY closed it. I was there from Beta until the last day...and saw it fall apart. When pvp player make up 20-30% of a game then they dont keep it going alone.

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Like Tabula Rosa? a pve game turned pvp because a few hundred demanded it? It lost thousands of players in a year, that's a fact, and the pvp players stayed until the day they closed it...and I do mean THEY closed it. I was there from Beta until the last day...and saw it fall apart. When pvp player make up 20-30% of a game then they dont keep it going alone.

@krm398

 

Tabula Rasa lost its playerbase because Lord Gariottron could not detach his head off of his ass and didn't take hints on creating an MMO for the 21st Century. Just sayin'.

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Aside from the starting area around the arcship, I feel like if you're logged in you should defend your stuff. 

 

Defending yes, but PvP slaughter house of PvE players, no. That was the reason why I left EVE, and likely many other players that left around the 2-3 year mark; hence the call for PvP/PvE balance. Open PvP will not being that. ATM it seems Star Citizen is trying to implement that PvP/PvE balance, but we will see how that plays out.

 

sry, but thats just your opinion about it, but that doesn't make it true. 

 

I would love to play this game if the davs can prove my opinion wrong. All I can say is so far I haven't found an PvE+PvP game that proves otherwise.

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I think what people need to remember is that this game is pure PvP.  PvE is not really a good way to look at the starting zone or any other safe zones.

 

Trading on the market, buy low, sell high?  Pure PvP because you are buying from and selling to others players and competing with other traders.

 

Building a spaceship?  PvP because you are going to either use that spaceship against other players in some other way, or sell it to another player.  If selling, you are competing with other ship builders, and negotiating the PvP market.

 

Mining?  PvP because you are going to sell that stuff to other players for profit.  You are competing with other miners directly, but you are also affecting the supply of that resource which will have PvP implications.

 

Exploring?  Still PvP because you are finding new areas and selling the information to other players for exploitation, which, again, leads to PvP.

 

In short, anything you do that involves creation, destruction, discovery or profit is PvP.  Having said that, there needs to be some safe areas for players to learn how to play the game and to bootstrap the creation part of the creation/destruction cycle.  So a limited number of safe zones which are free for anyone to use for learning purposes is necessary, but these areas should not be a source of wealth, ownership, exploitation, or advantage.

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@Klatu Satori

PvE has its merits. I mean, what's the point of exploration then? Sight-seeing of mountains? I can do that IRL.


Go to alien planets, kill everything that doesn't resemble our Lord and Savior, Rainbow Dash, skin their pelts or get the secret ancient treasure left by guys who blew themselves up with nukes ( bonus points if the planet is an irradiated wasteland) and move onward, all the while you have other guys on the planet with you who just wanna mine and shit.

Pure PvP is a stupid idea. Sure, you CAN go full PvP, I mean, many Friends & Family Guilds exist, who are casual playes who just like to log in, play Legons (in Spaaaaaaaaaace) and build neat things.  You could be offered a lucrative job as security detail like some sort of space cop, but PURE PvP is shit.

Sad truth is, in order to be a wolf, you need sheep. If there are no sheep, there are no wolves. The afformentioned sheep in this case, are PvEers, who don't wanna have a PvP, e-peen, boner. How long will a game last if wolf's murder each other? Will that be fun? Answer is no.

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In my opinion if you want a wall separating you from outside forces you should build it,If you dont want to get ganked you stick with a group and dont solo it(Its an mmo you should socialize).

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