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Ground Work Now Laid for a Wipe...


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I am 100% certain we will have a wipe before launch, if not in the next few months.

New players don't stand a chance against Whales & Exploiters sitting on their billions of quanta post Dementor. I believe this was part of NQ's plan, to widen the gap between the those with the most and everyone else coming into the game. An economic hitjob designed and planned to drive out established players, and apply pressure to anyone that failed to stockpile resources/quanta pre-dementor into demanding at least an economic wipe. 

Honestly though the NQ devs have wanted a wipe for a while, but they don't want to look like they aren't breaking their promise, so they are trying to create conditions that make it seem like it is our idea and that we want the wipe.


This was intentional... change my mind.


 

hit job.jpg

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54 minutes ago, Creator said:

I am 100% certain we will have a wipe before launch, if not in the next few months.

New players don't stand a chance against Whales & Exploiters sitting on their billions of quanta post Dementor. I believe this was part of NQ's plan, to widen the gap between the those with the most and everyone else coming into the game. An economic hitjob designed and planned to drive out established players, and apply pressure to anyone that failed to stockpile resources/quanta pre-dementor into demanding at least an economic wipe. 

Honestly though the NQ devs have wanted a wipe for a while, but they don't want to look like they aren't breaking their promise, so they are trying to create conditions that make it seem like it is our idea and that we want the wipe.


This was intentional... change my mind.

What do you mean by a whale in the context of DU? Someone with lots of accounts, that support the game with real money and also probably put in a lot of effort? Yeah punish those evil guys!

 

Your other problem being exploiters? NQ should/does deal with them directly and it is the worst possible excuse to want a wipe that I can think of.

 

You seem to be angry at DU and NQ, if they did wipe would that really make you happy? Why? You keep making posts about the new player experience being horrible, why do you want that for everyone right now?

 

There are a lot of tricks NQ could still put out of their magic hat. I would wait to see what the revamp of the new player experience is before you are "100% sure" of anything. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that you have absolutely no way of being 100% sure of anything NQ is going to do.

 

Maybe they will add training missions with great rewards to encourage new players to tackle the steep and daunting learning curve. These could include skillpoint boosts, large flat quanta or even boosts to daily quanta for completing challenges that show they have learned one of the many complex systems in DU.

 

How would a new player ever compete with a vet "whale" running several accounts after a wipe? What happens when there is one new exploit after the wipe? Start wipe hype again? New players will be at a disadvantage no matter what. Maybe there is a case for empowering new players to "catch up" enough while encouraging them to learn the game, rather than wiping everything.

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2 minutes ago, Kronskie said:

What do you mean by a whale in the context of DU? Someone with lots of accounts, that support the game with real money and also probably put in a lot of effort? Yeah punish those evil guys!

 

Your other problem being exploiters? NQ should/does deal with them directly and it is the worst possible excuse to want a wipe that I can think of.

 

You seem to be angry at DU and NQ, if they did wipe would that really make you happy? Why? You keep making posts about the new player experience being horrible, why do you want that for everyone right now?

 

There are a lot of tricks NQ could still put out of their magic hat. I would wait to see what the revamp of the new player experience is before you are "100% sure" of anything. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that you have absolutely no way of being 100% sure of anything NQ is going to do.

 

Maybe they will add training missions with great rewards to encourage new players to tackle the steep and daunting learning curve. These could include skillpoint boosts, large flat quanta or even boosts to daily quanta for completing challenges that show they have learned one of the many complex systems in DU.

 

How would a new player ever compete with a vet "whale" running several accounts after a wipe? What happens when there is one new exploit after the wipe? Start wipe hype again? New players will be at a disadvantage no matter what. Maybe there is a case for empowering new players to "catch up" enough while encouraging them to learn the game, rather than wiping everything.

 

Normally MMOs try to enforce or impose hard limits to how strong a guild or org can become, how much they can do, and try to make it so that any guild that rises up wether that is in the present or future can go through the same progression and compete with the larger guilds/orgs and stand a chance. 

 

Du has none of that since you can spend all your cores just on industry and have other people infinitely funnel resources and haord to their smaug sense of delight with no parallel or equal when it comes to Terriroty Wars coming soon since NQ is going to push as much unfinited and untested content out the door to launch in 2022. So when that happens everyone is going to get rooled. Some might put up a bit of a fight but once the top tier resources are sorted out its game over from there.

 

And seeing how NQs idea of the new Tax Repo Sim coming soon to consolidate all the dead orgs that were also hoarding mass quanitites of resources waiting for launch are going to make that gap a lot bigger for any sort of balance going forward without a wipe.

 

NQ refuses to chop from the top so its going to need a wipe one way or another to restore balance with all the systems that exist now or are added between now and launch in 2022.

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10 minutes ago, Warlander said:

 

Normally MMOs try to enforce or impose hard limits to how strong a guild or org can become, how much they can do, and try to make it so that any guild that rises up wether that is in the present or future can go through the same progression and compete with the larger guilds/orgs and stand a chance.

 

EVE Online didn't in its early years.

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35 minutes ago, Kronskie said:

What do you mean by a whale in the context of DU? Someone with lots of accounts, that support the game with real money and also probably put in a lot of effort? Yeah punish those evil guys!

 

Your other problem being exploiters? NQ should/does deal with them directly and it is the worst possible excuse to want a wipe that I can think of.

 

You seem to be angry at DU and NQ, if they did wipe would that really make you happy? Why? You keep making posts about the new player experience being horrible, why do you want that for everyone right now?


First of all... you enjoy putting words in my mouth don't you.

I have a couple billion myself, actually, and enough resources to build out the rest of my days at this point on Sanct or my HQ'ed tiles, but who would I be building it for when there is no one left to share it with? Which is why I am so active on the forums.

I don't have a problem with people supporting the game and putting in a lot of effort, cause I am one of those people, so you should probably try something else than trying to make me out to be an enemy of the community, when NQ is the one in the driver seat of poorly thought out changes.

One thing you got right is I do have a problem with exploiters, and you can't convince me the NQ dealt with that problem thoroughly based on how poorly their updates are done. I do have a problem with a company that misrepresents their product, and I do have a problem with poorly done changes that hurt the community, and when the communities feedback is largely ignored.

I don't want a horrible player experience for everyone, I want it to stop being a horrible experience. 
More specifically I want to make sure people clearly understand a wipe is inevitable and has already been put in motion so they don't continue to work hard for nothing while NQ refuses to be honest with us about their plans cause it doesn't suit them in the moment.
 

Edited by Creator
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What Org balance? What Org(s) is/are running the show, impacting others? The answer is none. 
 

In what way do new players not stand a chance? Stand a chance at what? Winning DU? 
 

How do large orgs hinder new players? From what I see, they ENABLE new and existing players. 
 

I also think taxes will cause a soft wipe where a lot of inactive tiles will free up and structures torn down. 
 

At this point, how would wiping improve the state of UD or make it better for launch? I mean people with means actually offset the shitty noob experience.

Edited by Doombad
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17 minutes ago, Doombad said:

What Org balance? What Org(s) is/are running the show, impacting others? The answer is none. 
 

In what way do new players not stand a chance? Stand a chance at what? Winning DU? 
 

How do large orgs hinder new players? From what I see, they ENABLE new and existing players. 
 

I also think taxes will cause a soft wipe where a lot of inactive tiles will free up and structures torn down. 
 

At this point, how would wiping improve the state of UD or make it better for launch? I mean people with means actually offset the shitty noob experience.

 

Many players or orgs might be dormant atm but when TWs drop a lot of people will come back as many people got bored and are sitting on a lot of hoarded weath. So why not come back and grief people outside the bubble and raid all their mining ops with the millions, billions, or trillions they have.

 

the butthurt will be real and really funny to watch. If you dont thinks this wont happen like in every PvP game ever grab some popcorn or a box of tissues its going to be funny to watch.

 

Or if this game turns around all it takes is a $50 beta account off an account trading website and like $50-100 for 100-200mil quanta if you have that in disposable income to get right back into the game.

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34 minutes ago, Creator said:


First of all... you enjoy putting words in my mouth don't you.

I have a couple billion myself, actually, and enough resources to build out the rest of my days at this point on Sanct or my HQ'ed tiles, but who would I be building it for when there is no one left to share it with? Which is why I am so active on the forums.

I don't have a problem with people supporting the game and putting in a lot of effort, cause I am one of those people, so you should probably try something else than trying to make me out to be an enemy of the community, when NQ is the one in the driver seat of poorly thought out changes.

One thing you got right is I do have a problem with exploiters, and you can't convince me the NQ dealt with that problem thoroughly based on how poorly their updates are done. I do have a problem with a company that misrepresents their product, and I do have a problem with poorly done changes that hurt the community, and when the communities feedback is largely ignored.

I don't want a horrible player experience for everyone, I want it to stop being a horrible experience. 
More specifically I want to make sure people clearly understand a wipe is inevitable and has already been put in motion so they don't continue to work hard for nothing while NQ refuses to be honest with us about their plans cause it doesn't suit them in the moment.
 

It wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth. I am legitimately interested in what you consider a whale and why you think they are a problem. Saying you have a lot of quanta doesn't really explain who or what these whales are, or why you think they are a reason to delete everything.

 

I'm glad you have a problem with exploiters, cool, we have something in common. I still don't think it's a good reason to want a wipe. I've heard of a few small patched exploits, but nothing major personally so maybe I'm just uninformed. What was the biggest exploit that ruined everything? Assuming it's safe to talk about old and patched exploits..? Or if there have been so many, could you enlighten me with the top 3 please? We're still only speculating that NQ hasn't done anything behind the scenes. I have heard a few whispers that they have. I'm sure we can agree they are pretty hush hush in general so personally I'm not that convinced there have been any major exploits that can't be recovered from and weren't dealt with to at least some degree. I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

 

I have no problem with you personally and I wasn't trying to make you out to be the enemy. My apologies if it felt that way. I do however have a problem with you and everyone else pushing this wipe agenda because I think it hurts the game. I also think the majority of people that want a wipe are those who feel like they "could do better next time" or something weirdly selfish and not based in reality. I'm not saying that's you, I understand you're in a good place resource wise which is why I'm curious about your two main points as to why *you* want a wipe. 

 

I'm going to try to stay positive, enjoy my time playing DU believing in NQ and that everything I do is here to stay and if they decide to delete everything I will silently disappear.

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2 hours ago, Creator said:


Honestly though the NQ devs have wanted a wipe for a while, but they don't want to look like they aren't breaking their promise, so they are trying to create conditions that make it seem like it is our idea and that we want the wipe.


This was intentional... change my mind.


 

hit job.jpg

 

No need to change you mind.. A wipe wil happen for sure

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15 minutes ago, Kronskie said:

It wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth. I am legitimately interested in what you consider a whale and why you think they are a problem. Saying you have a lot of quanta doesn't really explain who or what these whales are, or why you think they are a reason to delete everything.

 

I'm glad you have a problem with exploiters, cool, we have something in common. I still don't think it's a good reason to want a wipe. I've heard of a few small patched exploits, but nothing major personally so maybe I'm just uninformed. What was the biggest exploit that ruined everything? Assuming it's safe to talk about old and patched exploits..? Or if there have been so many, could you enlighten me with the top 3 please? We're still only speculating that NQ hasn't done anything behind the scenes. I have heard a few whispers that they have. I'm sure we can agree they are pretty hush hush in general so personally I'm not that convinced there have been any major exploits that can't be recovered from and weren't dealt with to at least some degree. I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

 

I have no problem with you personally and I wasn't trying to make you out to be the enemy. My apologies if it felt that way. I do however have a problem with you and everyone else pushing this wipe agenda because I think it hurts the game. I also think the majority of people that want a wipe are those who feel like they "could do better next time" or something weirdly selfish and not based in reality. I'm not saying that's you, I understand you're in a good place resource wise which is why I'm curious about your two main points as to why *you* want a wipe. 

 

I'm going to try to stay positive, enjoy my time playing DU believing in NQ and that everything I do is here to stay and if they decide to delete everything I will silently disappear.


I don't have a problem with people that work hard and play the game. I would say a true whale is someone that is north of 100 billion, probably like what 100 players or less? I also am not saying they are the reason for there to be a wipe. I am saying NQ is intentionally trashing the economy to pit the community against itself... or have you not been paying attention to all the bickering on the forums lately?

My reasoning is, when the developers can't see the problem with needing T3 ore to get the items to find/get T3 ore, they lack the ability/tools to catch/fully track money that is washed through their game ecosystem and the various ways it can change hands, and the deceptive strategies used to accomplished this. Some of these players have been exploiting mmo economies for 20+ years now, they aren't exactly as dumb as NQ believes the community to be.

The problems are so complex for NQ, that it is beyond their control, so the easiest way for them to erase the imbalance is to wipe, and they are setting it up to where they say the community requested it, so they can once again take the easy way out, as per the norm of their behavior without taking the blame.

Once again, not trying to push for a wipe, I am telling people one is coming cause NQ has designed the conditions for one to be needed. The problem here is you continue to accidentally/unintentionally keep assuming things about me that aren't true, This is where we are running into our friction.


It is mutual that I have no beef with you either, or anyone in this community... I participate here cause I care.
 

Edited by Creator
grammatical corrections
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5 minutes ago, Creator said:


I don't have a problem with people that work hard and play the game. I would say a true whale is someone that is north of 100 billion, probably like what 100 players or less? I also am not saying they are the reason I am saying NQ is intentionally trashing the economy to pit the community against itself... or have you not been paying attention to all the bickering on the forums lately?

My reasoning is, when the developers can't see the problem with need T3 ore to get the items to find/get T3 ore, they lack the ability/tools to catch/fully track money that is washed through their game ecosystem and the various ways it can change hands, and the deceptive strategies used to accomplished this. Some of these players have been exploiting mmo economies for 20+ years now, they aren't exactly dumb as NQ believes its community to be.

Once again, not trying to push for a wipe, I am telling people one is coming cause NQ has designed the conditions for one to be needed. The problem here is you continue to accidentally/unintentionally keep assuming things about me that aren't true, where is where we are running into our friction.

So you consider a whale to be someone with a lot of (quite probably hard earned) quanta. I understand now. I've always understood being a whale to be related to real world spending, not in game wealth. A whale could spend all their money on cosmetics for example. So then we must agree that your whales are not a problem unless their -vast amount of- quanta is earned through an exploit? What exploits?

 

I have no idea what you think I'm assuming about you, I'm genuinely just trying to understand why you think there should be a wipe.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Kronskie said:

So you consider a whale to be someone with a lot of (quite probably hard earned) quanta. I understand now. I've always understood being a whale to be related to real world spending, not in game wealth. A whale could spend all their money on cosmetics for example. So then we must agree that your whales are not a problem unless their -vast amount of- quanta is earned through an exploit? What exploits?

 

I have no idea what you think I'm assuming about you, I'm genuinely just trying to understand why you think there should be a wipe.

 

 

 

 


Yeah pretty much people that game the system for disproportionate unfair advantage...

What I KNOW you are assuming about me cause you just can't stop with every reply:
1. You keep assuming I think there should be a wipe, or that I want one...
2. You believe I hate players that have more than me that worked hard for it.

You also keep trying to paint me into a corner so you can go "I gotcha!" and it is honestly wearing out its welcome.
Your questions are leading, your accusing me of saying things I never said, and you need to stop.

Any sensible person would take the clear communication of my repeated statement that I believe the NQ Devs are setting us up for a wipe.
Not attacking players, or the community, or going after anyone, nor am I in this thread to discuss who has the best white picket fenced tile...
 

Edited by Creator
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18 minutes ago, Creator said:


I don't have a problem with people that work hard and play the game. I would say a true whale is someone that is north of 100 billion, probably like what 100 players or less? I also am not saying they are the reason for there to be a wipe. I am saying NQ is intentionally trashing the economy to pit the community against itself... or have you not been paying attention to all the bickering on the forums lately?

My reasoning is, when the developers can't see the problem with needing T3 ore to get the items to find/get T3 ore, they lack the ability/tools to catch/fully track money that is washed through their game ecosystem and the various ways it can change hands, and the deceptive strategies used to accomplished this. Some of these players have been exploiting mmo economies for 20+ years now, they aren't exactly as dumb as NQ believes the community to be.

The problems are so complex for NQ, that it is beyond their control, so the easiest way for them to erase the imbalance is to wipe, and they are setting it up to where they say the community requested it, so they can once again take the easy way out, as per the norm of their behavior without taking the blame.

Once again, not trying to push for a wipe, I am telling people one is coming cause NQ has designed the conditions for one to be needed. The problem here is you continue to accidentally/unintentionally keep assuming things about me that aren't true, This is where we are running into our friction.


It is mutual that I have no beef with you either, or anyone in this community... I participate here cause I care.
 

 

None of us wouldnt be here if we didnt care.

 

We might have opposing ideal on how to improve the game or pro/against NQ but at the end of the day we all want a solid game to be happy to play and promote to friends or family to play. It's always been in NQs hands to make this game into something people want to play and time and player populations show that is not the case since there arent many still playing.

 

To me it starts with refining the new player experience and making the brutality of starting a bit more welcoming. Followed by practical limits and application of sinks, and finally what endgame looks like even if there is no real endgame in a sandbox the top tier progression is essentially end game content people will want to spend hours, days, weeks, months, or years playing and still having a fun experience.

 

To me the game as a whole takes way to long and is set up wrong from the outset to have any kind of meaningful endgame content, progression, or PvP combat to be sustainable as a its current state, proposed updates, and long term viability.

 

You are  right in your though process that mega orgs, whales, rich players have had too much of a spoon fed existance when beta started and things have changed so much that the excesses they are sitting on wouldnt be possible in the current format of DU. Some here might not believe people have as much as they do but I have seen it personally in streams and friends from other multi gaming communities to know that it indeed is real, and the damage they can do or have done in past games with less. 

 

It has always been the reason for wiping when the game changes so much that it creates an unfair advantage that is game breaking in this case is and there is no way around a wipe without destroying DU in the process if they dont.

 

And as you say people have put in a lot of work and effort to build up what they have and yet this is a beta that changes constantly vs a game that is in a late stage of development that is just going through performance and polishing passes that might let you keep what you earned when most Beta games wipe before launch to have a clean start.

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5 minutes ago, Warlander said:

 

None of us wouldnt be here if we didnt care.

 

We might have opposing ideal on how to improve the game or pro/against NQ but at the end of the day we all want a solid game to be happy to play and promote to friends or family to play. It's always been in NQs hands to make this game into something people want to play and time and player populations show that is not the case since there arent many still playing.

 

To me it starts with refining the new player experience and making the brutality of starting a bit more welcoming. Followed by practical limits and application of sinks, and finally what endgame looks like even if there is no real endgame in a sandbox the top tier progression is essentially end game content people will want to spend hours, days, weeks, months, or years playing and still having a fun experience.

 

To me the game as a whole takes way to long and is set up wrong from the outset to have any kind of meaningful endgame content, progression, or PvP combat to be sustainable as a its current state, proposed updates, and long term viability.

 

You are  right in your though process that mega orgs, whales, rich players have had too much of a spoon fed existance when beta started and things have changed so much that the excesses they are sitting on wouldnt be possible in the current format of DU. Some here might not believe people have as much as they do but I have seen it personally in streams and friends from other multi gaming communities to know that it indeed is real, and the damage they can do or have done in past games with less. 

 

It has always been the reason for wiping when the game changes so much that it creates an unfair advantage that is game breaking in this case is and there is no way around a wipe without destroying DU in the process if they dont.

 

And as you say people have put in a lot of work and effort to build up what they have and yet this is a beta that changes constantly vs a game that is in a late stage of development that is just going through performance and polishing passes that might let you keep what you earned when most Beta games wipe before launch to have a clean start.

 

Spoon fed beta? Missions were introduced not that long ago, they are the best way to get ahead and they still exist now. Oh no megas are gone, but everyone has to mine and sell to maintain so if you mission you can get ahead more than ever now.

 

EVE Online had lots of totally imbalanced ways to make money in the early years, it survived just fine.

 

You sound really sour and clueless.

 

I need to stop reading miserable doom posts. Bye forums

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14 minutes ago, Kronskie said:

 

Spoon fed beta? Missions were introduced not that long ago, they are the best way to get ahead and they still exist now. Oh no megas are gone, but everyone has to mine and sell to maintain so if you mission you can get ahead more than ever now.

 

EVE Online had lots of totally imbalanced ways to make money in the early years, it survived just fine.

 

You sound really sour and clueless.

 

I need to stop reading miserable doom posts. Bye forums

 


EVE also had fun gameplay and social aspects, good or bad. DU just doesn't have well, anything.

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1 hour ago, Kronskie said:

 

Spoon fed beta? Missions were introduced not that long ago, they are the best way to get ahead and they still exist now. Oh no megas are gone, but everyone has to mine and sell to maintain so if you mission you can get ahead more than ever now.

 

EVE Online had lots of totally imbalanced ways to make money in the early years, it survived just fine.

 

You sound really sour and clueless.

 

I need to stop reading miserable doom posts. Bye forums

 

Yeah it was hella easy to amass large amounts of ore after Alpha and learning how to speed it up for the ore reset into Beta. Missions were just the icing on the cake since you could VR and double dip with a dedicated pilot only. Or triple dip with scanners and doing all three at once and then profiting even more before schematics arrived with unlimited versitile industry and then even after schematics when everyone else got kneecapped and had to random out their industry and eat parts while larger orgs were unaffected and selling parts during destructable elements.

 

I call that spoon feeding to the max when they should have chopped from the top.

 

I never said EvE wasnt unbalanced I am just simply saying they were able to turn it around unlike NQ who is dead set on making a failed game.

 

Am I jaded by sutoids who made countless bad games over the years? Sure.

Am I self absorbed? Who isnt?

Can NQ do better than the absolute bare minimum of what we call a game? Yeah.

 

I have seen pretty much all this industry has or had to offer. Its pretty much mostly cash grabs, clones, and has been stagnat for two decades beyond EvE, EQ/WoW, SWG, SB, GW, or UO, and few others that arent an amalgamation of those titles made easier, dumbed down, Americanized, or bastardized. Clueless? Cool! Can I get the DU clueless badge @NQ-DeckardI think I earned my merit badge!

Edited by Warlander
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17 hours ago, Creator said:

I have a couple billion myself, actually, and enough resources to build out the rest of my days at this point on Sanct or my HQ'ed tiles, but who would I be building it for when there is no one left to share it with? Which is why I am so active on the forums.

 

Thank you, its sort of bingo in context of all this discussion.

 

Because there is no much difference if stuff is actually hard wiped or... "soft wiped", made irrelevant -- just sitting somewhere forever in totaly empty space, with no one to use, show, enjoy it, etc. 

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