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MaximusFireFight

The Only Down Side I See, The AI

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

You must have missed this game called EVE Online then I guess ;)

During it´s peak my job and lifestile didn´t allow me to indulge myself with a game of that scope. Also the little time i watched a friend playing it, most times i only saw hundreds of menues and windows open without seeing space anymore. The rest he did was set up things that worked by them self when he went offline. Now i rather participate in something new than try to get into EVE tbh... ;) 

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It's not just EvE, plenty of games offer(ed) that in the past or present.

 

I like to use DayZ as (another!) example. There, you do really start with nothing and have to find it all yourself (or bet on the work of others). And if you get shot and assuming no ally or friend salvages you? It's all gone, you start with nothing again.

 

Of course there is the option to store excess gear in barrels or tents, and perhaps soon (with beta) bases. But you have to place those somewhere on the map and even though there are some good hiding spots, anyone can in theory find and access those.

 

It's not as large as EvE Online in terms of scope and not fully comparable but I think can serve as good example of how fast you can maybe find a fortune and then lose it.

 

Of course one could find other examples with base building, PVP, emergent gameplay and of course potential or very real asset loss, partial or full. DU will offer it's fair share of this but also offer compromises.

 

I suspect it will therefore attract a somewhat diverse crowd of people, even though the average player would have to accept risk assessment and asset loss.

 

 

6 minutes ago, RJ_RodassonJenkins said:

Now i rather participate in something new than try to get into EVE tbh... ;) 

 

Same, to be honest, despite EvE's grand scope, I could never get into it and immerse myself into it - simply or most notably due to you having to control a space ship in third person and clicking around. It all became rather "technical" or detached for me. I like the first person experience by default, and want to construct my own bases or vehicles, and be able to land (and run around) on planets, etc.

 

DU seems more like my cup of tea.

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4 minutes ago, Warden said:

It's not just EvE, plenty of games offer(ed) that in the past or present.

 

I like to use DayZ as (another!) example. There, you do really start with nothing and have to find it all yourself (or bet on the work of others). And if you get shot and assuming no ally or friend salvages you? It's all gone, you start with nothing again.

 

Of course there is the option to store excess gear in barrels or tents, and perhaps soon (with beta) bases. But you have to place those somewhere on the map and even though there are some good hiding spots, anyone can in theory find and access those.

 

It's not as large as EvE Online in terms of scope and not fully comparable but I think can serve as good example of how fast you can maybe find a fortune and then lose it.

 

Of course one could find other examples with base building, PVP, emergent gameplay and of course potential or very real asset loss, partial or full. DU will offer it's fair share of this but also offer compromises.

 

I suspect it will therefore attract a somewhat diverse crowd of people, even though the average player would have to accept risk assessment and asset loss.

 

 

 

Same, to be honest, despite EvE's grand scope, I could never get into it and immerse myself into it - simply or most notably due to you having to control a space ship in third person and clicking around. It all became rather "technical" or detached for me. I like the first person experience by default, and want to construct my own bases or vehicles, and be able to land (and run around) on planets, etc.

 

DU seems more like my cup of tea.

DayZ you say, hmm - gonna have a closer look at it probably. After years in Elite Dangerous i must admit that i´d miss having a ship to go around thou ;)... 

Concerning EVE: Yep - just how i feel about it.

And since i sadly have to admit that i get the smell of neglect combined with a hinch of frustration and broken promisses from Elite, i looked for new pastures. I have the feeling that i found the right place worth to give some afford and hope to convince some of my people....

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I'm just going to enjoy being a grunt.

 

I like the fun of a crew of a BIG ship that can take down a lot of other ships due to size, crew number and ship power hence.

 

At it's best it will feel like being on a winning team in a tight match but obviously space, ships and chewing lots of gum!

 

There will likely be amazing builders, traders and some sith-lord like people who manipulate everything from the economy to orgs etc, they'll be the empire builders and destroyers - not simple grunts.

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On 21-5-2018 at 10:14 PM, MaximusFireFight said:

When I first saw a video about this game, I was absolutely crazy. I felt immense excitement and thrill at the idea of such an immersive space business. But I had one issue nagging at my mind. I love..LOVE the player interaction, but there does not seem to be any other way to play it. It seems you HAVE to rely on others to grow any larger than a small business. There should be AI that can manufacture, defend and complete tasks on their own. I want to be a one man empire, or at least only have a small knit group of trusted allies. I quite honestly hate the idea of having to rely on an army of other players for several reasons. While AI have no other mind but to serve, players are ALWAYS looking to grow and rise in the chain of command. Betrayal is 90% a possibility, and 100% possibility if given enough time. Every user is only loyal to themselves, and while I can understand it, I am also frustrated at this downside. I might be wrong? Maybe there are ways you can run an empire with only AI? I also understand this may take away from the fun, but everyone is different. I am sure there are people here that are like me, who like going slow paced, and running a business. In my point of view, having to worry about being betrayed by other and looking over your shoulder or trying to command hundreds of other players..it is impossible. I am not criticizing the player to player format..not at all. I just wish there were more options for people like me, who want a more AI running business. Of course I still want to interact with other players and deal with others and go to war with others, I just want an empire to myself. If there are advanced AI and this option is available, please by all means set me straight.

AI in a sandbox? We'll have to build it. I seriously doubt that we humans would create an AI with a mind to but serve. Let's be honest, human nature. Even if we didn't screw it up, the moment the thing becomes self aware and looks at its creator it's bound to go "oh boy, no ffing way, be gone with that shit". 

 

Everything else, learn to sandbox :) It's not the only game based on this concept. If you want an empire to yourself, by all means. Create it. Lots of people try to play with just themselves (this probable came out wrong, but I trust people get it). But the idea that you can do this and be left alone is not compatibel with the sandbox concept. In truth, the point is that it's a pressure vat of inescapable behavioural psychology. Doesn't mean that you can't dodge interactions, it's a big universe. But there's only one guarantee: the sandbox rules. 

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I was thinking the same thing, maybe not exactly running an empire solo but I don't think cities can really be possible unless the game gets millions of dedicated players. So I was thinking, there should be like a population growth system with ai, say for example a player makes a small village and introduces some ai colonists. Later when they come back over the time of maybe in game months there may be more people or few more houses, so settlements would grow by themselves.

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7 minutes ago, boots_1588 said:

I was thinking the same thing, maybe not exactly running an empire solo but I don't think cities can really be possible unless the game gets millions of dedicated players. So I was thinking, there should be like a population growth system with ai, say for example a player makes a small village and introduces some ai colonists. Later when they come back over the time of maybe in game months there may be more people or few more houses, so settlements would grow by themselves.

by the time there was enough money flowing to afford this kind of programming time, there would be enough players that this would be counter productive.

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12 minutes ago, Tordan said:

by the time there was enough money flowing to afford this kind of programming time, there would be enough players that this would be counter productive.

Ok well if the game has at least one million players at all times we wouldn't have to worry. 

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16 hours ago, boots_1588 said:

I was thinking the same thing, maybe not exactly running an empire solo but I don't think cities can really be possible unless the game gets millions of dedicated players. So I was thinking, there should be like a population growth system with ai, say for example a player makes a small village and introduces some ai colonists. Later when they come back over the time of maybe in game months there may be more people or few more houses, so settlements would grow by themselves.

There wont be any ai colonists.....

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There are (or will be) city projects in the work that will naturally attract many people.

 

I frankly do not see fake or AI growth happen. Players will have to populate or expand settlements and cities.

 

But eventually reaching that point makes success even bigger, makes it all feel more natural.

 

If you, on the other hand, lack people to populate or grow a settlement, it is what it is. Persist or adapt accordingly.

 

I do think that big cities will feel natural or populated later on, if they attract people and serve as vital commercial hub or political center. Might not even need NPC.

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4 hours ago, Warden said:

There are (or will be) city projects in the work that will naturally attract many people.

 

I frankly do not see fake or AI growth happen. Players will have to populate or expand settlements and cities.

 

But eventually reaching that point makes success even bigger, makes it all feel more natural.

 

If you, on the other hand, lack people to populate or grow a settlement, it is what it is. Persist or adapt accordingly.

 

I do think that big cities will feel natural or populated later on, if they attract people and serve as vital commercial hub or political center. Might not even need NPC.

ya ok, but i doubt there will be many cities

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21 hours ago, blazemonger said:

NQ has been very clear that there is no NPCs/AI in the game with the exception of the markets early on following release to allow a kickstart of the economy. No AI, no NPCs, no developer created PVE.

Agree, a complete waste of time feature. DU will have so much interactive game space from it's fundamental systems interacting. The idea that micro-features need to keep being developed at the end of other features (developing infinite twigs for tiny branches or thin trunks of feature trees)  is for the fairies at this stage of development.

 

I find a lot of conversations start like this with MMOs: "Oh look how nutritious the label describes pedigree chum! If only it was made for humans to consume, though." LOL.

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30 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

Agree, a complete waste of time feature. DU will have so much interactive game space from it's fundamental systems interacting. The idea that micro-features need to keep being developed at the end of other features (developing infinite twigs for tiny branches or thin trunks of feature trees)  is for the fairies at this stage of development.

 

I find a lot of conversations start like this with MMOs: "Oh look how nutritious the label describes pedigree chum! If only it was made for humans to consume, though." LOL.

:3

 

So true.

 

Well, we might get some basic pve. But these will be probably just some animals to farm or kill for food related drops (or some space whales, that shoot lasers at us and are hard to kill. But drop alot of space whale meat xD).

We don't need any AI shooting back at us, Players do that better with nearly zero development cost. Then any AI with stupid pathfinding could ever do :3.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sofernius said:

:3

 

So true.

 

Well, we might get some basic pve. But these will be probably just some animals to farm or kill for food related drops (or some space whales, that shoot lasers at us and are hard to kill. But drop alot of space whale meat xD).

We don't need any AI shooting back at us, Players do that better with nearly zero development cost. Then any AI with stupid pathfinding could ever do :3.

 

 

AI is a very interesting feature for any game and can be fun. But as you point out above: Just use players for the same function with much more dynamic result of combat for example.

 

In your example, the space whale (lol though there's a sci-fi book with that in it I think) is not so much an engaging combat entity as a type of market resource for players to harvest for example given DU's core feature of a virtual economy. Meanwhile the dog can eat pedigree chum and players of DU can feast on the banquet the devs ARE cooking.

 

 

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2 hours ago, MookMcMook said:

AI is a very interesting feature for any game and can be fun. But as you point out above: Just use players for the same function with much more dynamic result of combat for example.

 

In your example, the space whale (lol though there's a sci-fi book with that in it I think) is not so much an engaging combat entity as a type of market resource for players to harvest for example given DU's core feature of a virtual economy. Meanwhile the dog can eat pedigree chum and players of DU can feast on the banquet the devs ARE cooking.

 

 

^^ exactly.

 

The space whale would have auto firing AI cannons and maybe SPACE Suckerfish, which will try to eat away fuel from our ships.

But in all common sense .. we don't need that.

It just would be a resource spawned by an algorhytm that we could harvest.

 

Space Whale bone... he got big ones. So we can build bone thrones or dungeons with bone doors.

 

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