Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BlorgonSlayer

What makes this game stand out?

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

You're merely talking about "Skill Abstraction" systems.

 

The design emphasis of mmoRPGs very much is orientated around some peculiar notion that the CHARACTER (hero's journey completely ripped to shreds btw) is the centre of the universe "so to speak". Look at the designs. Or if that does not appeal, just put it that these mmoRPGs designs have much much more in common with each other than they do with DU, DU being an outlier to the extent it should have a different categorization merely through relative divergence.

 

 

Like I said, I disagree with you on that. And a quick Google will show you that the definition is a variation on what I said. 

 

But you are free to have your own ideas on what is or isn't. 

 

If being the hero is central to something being an RPG then Halo, Doom etc would be RPGs but everyone agrees they aren't. For the reasons I mentioned earlier. 

 

But like I said you are free to see things your way. And while I think your perspective is interesting I can't agree with it. :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely get what you're saying.  The thing that makes DU different than a game like Empyrion is the MMO aspect, and having a single persistent universe.  What I'm saying is that perhaps the things that sets it apart is also the thing that makes it shallow and unable to live up to the hype that surrounds it currently.  So you can mine and build a big ass city and trade and fight.  What is the end goal here?  What happens after you have a  nice city, and the most impressive fleet in the Galaxy so no one can dare attack your city, and you have all the resources you need well guarded, and others have the same that they put hours upon hours of work into and don't want to provoke others to destroy their work?  It seems that on one hand, there is a linear progression to the game, and after that point, you'll probably be pretty bored, and on the other hand, there is so much work that goes into building that I can't see why anyone would want to invite harm on their creations.  The scale they're talking here of months to years to build something, seems to preclude the most interesting aspects of this sort of game.  Maybe some people will want to do it, but I'd be surprised if anyone actually fights because of the work involved in building. People say Empyrion is grindy.  Multiply that by 100.

 

So I'm just saying, I want to believe in this game, based on how exited people are about it, but it really doesn't seem like anything special to me, just because of the type of game they are building.  There are other games out there that offer similar things, without the limitations that this game has imposed on itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

So you can mine and build a big ass city and trade and fight.  What is the end goal here?  What happens after you have a  nice city, and the most impressive fleet in the Galaxy so no one can dare attack your city, and you have all the resources you need well guarded, and others have the same that they put hours upon hours of work into and don't want to provoke others to destroy their work?

 

There is no set end goal; most (end) goals are subjective either way. In short, it is what people make out of it. I think the big hype is just that: People being in control of their (and others) destinies. You struggle and get to a point, then try to hold it and work from there. Or you lose things and rinse and repeat.

 

Just like in life there is no real "end goal". You just do things (or try to) until you perish. The big key difference here to some or many other games is that you are not limited in your approaches or in scale. That's the general "benefit" of sandbox games on average: You can build anything you can imagine while interacting with others with the same powers. Other games end eventually in their respective plots or things you can do. This, of course, also has subjective cons. The sheer size or possibilities are "too much" for certain people, and there are no "scripted" events or very scripted plots with lots of action and storytelling, like in a movie.

 

I would say that average "life" in DU would be more drawn out, with lots of politics or business and a slower pace - until notable wars happen.

 

I also doubt people will later passively sit around all the time, there will be enough power struggles between groups due to ideology, indifferences, simple mistakes that turned into rivalries, influence, more power (in terms of claimed areas and / or resources) and a lot more.

 

Will it be "grindy"? Depending on what people classify grindy as, sure. But that's the thing: It's like life again. You go through chores and hard work or tough events and circumstances, or sometimes plain repetitive, boring, monotone ones, and on the other hand there are usually special moments in life, accomplishments, victories, achievements, progress, meeting new people, having a good times. You may obtain certain skills, positions, reputations - or lose them.

 

It can really be a like a second life or a very interactive, unscripted game in an online environment where the players are the driving factor. Some like it, some dislike it. Some find it very exciting or special, others just shrug.

 

No matter what your stance is:

 

 

There will be a lot to DU.

 

Other than that, time will tell if people can motivate themselves in larger projects or long-term strategy over the span of years. I suppose this works in EvE, so I think we will see similar things happen in DU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

  There are other games out there that offer similar things, without the limitations that this game has imposed on itself.

I can really see what you are saying there.

 

But it's an MMO so for the MMO player it's extremely interesting. It's like how The Witcher was very exciting to RPG players but less interesting to an FPS player. 

 

You raise some interesting thoughts. But concidering the success of the Kickstarter and the ongoing supporter packs it does seem there is a big desire for a game like DU. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

What is the end goal here?

This kind of misses the point. This is an sandbox MMO.  The "end goal" is what you decide it to be.  Many people can't/won't/prefer not to decide that for themselves which is why theme-park MMO's exist.

6 hours ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

What happens after you have a  nice city, and the most impressive fleet in the Galaxy so no one can dare attack your city, and you have all the resources you need well guarded, and others have the same that they put hours upon hours of work into and don't want to provoke others to destroy their work? 

The people that build the sandcastles are not necessarily the same people that kick them over. If a place can be attacked it will be.  (Allowance has been made for those builders that  just want to build their own buildings on sanctuary moons and safe zones, but these areas have no resources so someone still has got to go out there.)

6 hours ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

... but it really doesn't seem like anything special to me.

And that is fine. DU is *not* for everyone.  If someone says a specific game is for everyone I will show you a liar. Perhaps you prefer tough survival games like the Stalker series.  DU won't scratch that itch.  Others may like fast-paced FPS games.  DU won't scratch that itch to the same degree either. I could start pointing at all the features in DU that don't exist in EGS but this is futile if those features are not what you are looking for.

 

What DU offers, among others, is exploration, mining, manufacture, construction, PvP combat, trade, politics and boat loads of voxels all in a neat single shard MMO box.

 

My point is, look at what DU is and decide for yourself whether this is the game you are looking for. No one on some forums can decide for you.

 

Edit: Forgot trade. Mustn't forget trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Falstaf said:

 

Like I said, I disagree with you on that. And a quick Google will show you that the definition is a variation on what I said. 

 

But you are free to have your own ideas on what is or isn't. 

 

If being the hero is central to something being an RPG then Halo, Doom etc would be RPGs but everyone agrees they aren't. For the reasons I mentioned earlier. 

 

But like I said you are free to see things your way. And while I think your perspective is interesting I can't agree with it. :)

 

 

I'm sorry I used hero or trope where I could have used ego or convention with respect to mmorpg. That's more appropriate. I don't need to persuade or propaganda any ideas here, I do feel it's right to try to communicate effectively ideas however if at possible.

 

Put it this way, a lot of game systems have mechanics and aesthetics that are deeply incongruous. You can say a particular genre is composed of the mechanics used, I say BS. That's a convention dependent on the current means employed and will change in time as it always does. Anyway, we'll see how DU manifests, there's a "groove" here, if you can follow it with your finger, it is weaving an interesting prospect.

 

2 hours ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

What I'm saying is that perhaps the things that sets it apart is also the thing that makes it shallow and unable to live up to the hype that surrounds it currently.

 

So I'm just saying, I want to believe in this game, based on how exited people are about it, but it really doesn't seem like anything special to me,

 

There are other games out there that offer similar things, without the limitations that this game has imposed on itself.

Really you're misconstruing DU: There's not a lot of hype about it. That's the whole point: It seems to me people are blind eg SC or NMS: How on earth are people so blind as to not understand what those games are or were going to be (not)?? This clearly proves that people don't see what is in front of their eyes. And that is a big reason why the games market (marketing) or other markets end up the way they do.

 

What is exciting is the tech in DU. We don't know if that will translate to a great game system on top of it. But given most if not all mmoRPGs never ever get past first base, it IS exciting to see progress to base 2 for once. ;)

 

Finally, I've already provided factual evidence of where PHYSICALLY the game is different in design and that's only for starters: People are only going to get lost in semantics or sentiment, until they start using what's in front of them. :) Btw the way NQ has approached this is not the only way, but the tech they're using is you can be clear about this a very impressive way to design such a virtual world. So talking of limitations is a joke not to be taken seriously.

2 hours ago, Kurock said:

This is an sandbox MMO.

It's actually:-

 

1. Sandbox

2. Simulation

 

These are then creating a Virtual World MMO (MMOVW). It's one reason it's an exciting prospect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MookMcMook oh certainly, genres and definitions evolve over time. But we use certain words to communicate certain ideas.

 

Perhaps we should say today an RPG is defined as such and such. Though a platformer won't suddenly become a RTS game. 

 

But I share your idea that DU is blurring the lines in certain areas. For an MMO it's certainly trying to improve on what's possible in a persistent universe. 

 

Who knows, when DU is a few years old people might invent a name specifically for the type of game it becomes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Falstaf said:

@MookMcMook oh certainly, genres and definitions evolve over time. But we use certain words to communicate certain ideas.

 

Perhaps we should say today an RPG is defined as such and such. Though a platformer won't suddenly become a RTS game. 

 

But I share your idea that DU is blurring the lines in certain areas. For an MMO it's certainly trying to improve on what's possible in a persistent universe. 

 

Who knows, when DU is a few years old people might invent a name specifically for the type of game it becomes. 

For sure, "sandbox": "What's that thing in the sky? Oh that's a bird. See it has wings. What's that really big one then? Oh that's a plane..."

 

On one level.

 

MMOVW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A true sandbox mmo at its core.

This is what make Dual Universe different for me above all other games. Freedom to Explore, Freedom to Conquer, Freedom to Build cities, nations, empires, alliances, coalitions, corporations. Freedom to be whatever you want to be.

The cheery on top of this nice sunday ice-cream is the voxel aspect of the constructs. Not to mention the server tech to handle all this. Hooph! Amazing!



~ Meldrik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

So I'm just saying, I want to believe in this game, based on how exited people are about it, but it really doesn't seem like anything special to me, just because of the type of game they are building.  There are other games out there that offer similar things, without the limitations that this game has imposed on itself.

 

And that's fine. From your comments it's obvious you are not looking for or possibly understand the concept and opportunities offered in a true MMO sandbox game. While you mention Empyrion and seem to like it's direction what is important to see is that Empyrion is not an MMO, it is not a game where you can choose and decide the path you will take as it has fairly strict boundaries as to what you can do and to what purpose you can do this. It is actually a great game and it certainly has a lot of similarities with DU as far as the concept of building ships and buildings. In Epyrion you will basically follow the path laid out for you through the content the game offers and is mostly a PVE based co-op game.

 

In games such as DU (and EVE) you live your life in the game as you would IRL. You work, evolve, interact and progress with and through other players and the social interaction and support system is much more like it is in your actual every day life. There is no set way to play the game, there is no pre-made story line or progression line and there is no endgame. The people playing the game will determine fully how the game evolves and what direction their _and other's_ game experience will take. This also means it takes effort and time to accomplish things and your actions will basically always have direct implications in a lot of ways where in Empyrion when you make a mistake you g out get some more resources and move on.

 

In the end DU may not be for you, it may not be the type of game you like to play even though it 'has spaceships' and that's fine. I hope you stick around here to see the game grow and evolve and maybe once it get closer to being a full game, ready for release you can hop in to see what the hype is all about and join us. You will be more than welcome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/10/2018 at 4:31 PM, BlorgonSlayer said:

The first is that with the ambition that the game has, to have one single shard universe, with highly rendered graphics, and everything being completely user interactive, I feel there will inevitably be sacrifices made in certain areas.

The second issue is that having a single shard universe whose planets and systems are completely created by the devs, means that the players have no control or say over the parameters of the universe at all.  Contrast this to a game like Empyrion, which allows you to completely tweak the universe to your preference, and is now introducing multiple biomes to planets, which are based on parameters like humidity, temperature, etc.  I'd be surprised if NQ was doing anything like this, and they definitely won't be putting such tools into the hands of the players.

2

Point one here. What you're going off of is a very logical conclusion, but I have two words for you, pre, alpha.

 

We're still in the beginning stages as you well know. Some things work while others, not so much, but it's not like we need that right now. Walk before running, but before you do anything, learn how to walk first.

 

The second point follows below...

 

On 3/10/2018 at 8:40 PM, BlorgonSlayer said:

The point remains, even at the level of customization that exists now, it is more than will ever exist in DU.  

 

Point two, where exactly in the description did it say that you can play God? Going back up to the first quote about tweaking the planets to your preference with their biomes and such, that's pretty god-like if you ask me. Like someone else already mentioned earlier, the environments are procedurally generated. Basically, the universe is already there, we just need to explore it, sort of like the mere mortals that we already are.

 

If you want to play god, talk with NQ about being a developer. If you get hired, they might let make you a star with its own system and customize everything you want about it. You can play god that way, but I prefer the old school route...

 

If anyone is screwing around in the game and making mischief for everyone else that actually deviates from the game, you'll see a bright flash, and they'll be gone.

 

That's right, that avatar just got destroyed by a righteous lightning bolt from the NQ gods.

 

On 3/11/2018 at 6:10 AM, MookMcMook said:

mmoRPGs = You the player are the "Hero": The focus.

mmoVW = The "World" building is the focus.

2

I'm going to stifle this baby in the crib before it becomes a problem here.

 

Let's not add forty more letters so it's correct and everyone is catered to. Just make up a short acronym and run with it.

 

Tual Universe, the best F.A.S.T. game of 2018!!!1

 

Freaking

Awesome

Super

Time

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

 

I'm going to stifle this baby in the crib before it becomes a problem here.

 

Let's not add forty more letters so it's correct and everyone is catered to. Just make up a short acronym and run with it.

 

Tual Universe, the best F.A.S.T. game of 2018!!!1

 

Freaking

Awesome

Super

Time

 

It's not a problem. It's like trying to catch cat tails; just a pointless game.

 

But the emphasis difference is useful for exchanging ideas and so that adds value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to reiterate, that the things that many people are mentioning here as "different" are not really different at all.  Other games have the freedom to explore, the freedom to build, the freedom to be what you want, all in the context of a space sim.  Other games have the voxel aspect which allows you to dig real minerals out of the ground and leave a hole where those minerals were, even carve out the side of a mountain and build a base there.  Other games have (or plan to have) a fully functioning, player driven economy, bounty systems, warring factions, and all these things that DU claims will make it stand out from the crowd.  And yes, even as it is in Empyrion, when you die in DU, you will simply get more resources and move on with your life.  They are almost the identical game, except in DU, the players are not given the tools of "god" to customize their universe and play in their own customized universe with their friends as they see fit.  So basically, it's like Empyrion and Star citizen had a baby, but had less features than both.

 

I mean, I am going to be keeping my eye on the game, and seeing what they bring to the table, but I'm seriously skeptical.  There is definitely a lot of hype around this game, considering how much money they've raised and how many people are in the community.  I hope it turns out something truly unique and interesting.  But for now, I'll stick to the games that already exist and are doing it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

But for now, I'll stick to the games that already exist and are doing it better.

And that's exactly the point. To you "better" obviously means something completely different than to me or to others. 

It's personal taste only really. All games have their advantages and downsides. 

 

For me personally empyrion is plain boring and SC will die of feature creep and Low fps and lag. Does that mean those games are Bad per se? Or that Du is better per se? No. 

It's just better for me. 

 

And If it's not better for you - that's ok. Stick around, follow it or don't and make ur mind up once the NDA lifts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/03/2018 at 7:17 PM, Mod-Meldrik said:

A true sandbox mmo at its core

 

I think most people use "sandbox" as a loose hand-waving about general freedom and creativity as opposed to the standard in almost all games/mmo-rpgs: Restriction.

 

A "Pure" Sandbox would be closer to Garry's Mod for example.

 

A Sandbox = Object manipulation and/or rule manipulation

 

7 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

given the tools of "god" to customize their universe

Serendipity smiles today this is an eg of the latter option of a Pure Sandbox... And hence I'm going correct what DU is, using this: It's NOT a pure Sandbox as above, Raw Manipulation -> Raw Creation.

 

In DU the sandbox layer is already designed with PURPOSE (Telos) to create a Physical UNIVERSE (hint: Dual Universe name) via the voxel objects. It's already moving away from Raw Manipulation without pre-defined purpose. But that means the building and hence world interaction has just gone off the scale... hence it very much is a very sandbox game.

 

6 minutes ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

"different" are not really different at all.

Nothing new under the sun. And yet each day is an entirely new day.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lethys said:

For me personally empyrion is plain boring... 

If you found Empyrion boring, I'm not sure why you think you'll like a game where it takes 100 times longer to build anything, lol.

 

But you're right, it is subjective, and to each their own.  I just thought maybe there was something I was missing here, but I guess not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BlorgonSlayer said:

If you found Empyrion boring, I'm not sure why you think you'll like a game where it takes 100 times longer to build anything, lol.

Because i don't See the grind - that's why you have a team. 

Empyrion is boring because you only have some players on a server which makes it inherently bad to me. Even If it would be 1000 - that's not what I'm interested in.

 

So yes, it's all only subjective. Some like it, some don't. That's the way it is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lethys said:

Because i don't See the grind - that's why you have a team. 

Empyrion is boring because you only have some players on a server which makes it inherently bad to me. Even If it would be 1000 - that's not what I'm interested in.

 

So yes, it's all only subjective. Some like it, some don't. That's the way it is

Even with all those people, they are still saying it will take a long time to actually build stuff.  We'll see I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is DU not an RPG if it greatly focuses on actual roleplaying of your character? Its even mentioned in the section about the Moon Secure Areas. People need a safe space to roleplay, it doesn't only mean having character progression. DU is mainly an RPG with elements of world building, thats for sure. For a pen&paper RPG enthusiast as me this was the selling point of the game. I am free to create a group of players, roleplaying our characters and interacting with other groups without breaking our immersion. You don't have "roleplaying wars" as in theme park MMOs, you can declare a war on someone and actually care it out through in-game mechanics, all while immersing yourself in being the character you play. 

 

All in all, DU gives you a lot of means to roleplay your character. And about the hero focus, I think you meant "protagonist". In RPGs you don't always play as a hero, look at Kingdom Come - a son of a smith that just happend to be in the middle of a war. In DU our characters are our protagonist, the difference is that you get to name him and choose his or her destiny. That is why I have high hopes of DU becoming a great MMORPG.

 

The point is that for you the perspective of roleplaying is limited to a predetermined character given in a game, thats why you are so hesistant to call it an RPG. DU and many other RPG games require you to create and shape your character from scratch, as in any tabletop RPG game. There are RPG servers in ArmA, even tho you have no main story and a "hero" there. San Andreas, which I don't really like, is also a good example of RPG games without your standard progression and a protagonist. People were and are roleplaying faction politics for a long time now, I think this is my final proof. 

 

You are right about world building, its a great part but don't forget that its carried out by roleplaying people. Everyone has to roleplay in a sandbox like this, thats the point, even if they roleplay just a little.

 

Ye, DU is a juicy RPG and I love the premise, I hope it will be carried out well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...