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Construct Creator for Blueprint Design

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Creating areas, or Labs if you will, for designers to work and develop should be the responsibility of organizations to set up and maintain/defend/protect. Using a creative mode in a MMO is cheating, plain and simple.

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20 hours ago, devu said:

@Bitmouse I have an idea for you.

 

Create organisation that will focus on designing ships. Find far away galaxy, claim some territory, provide resources, money and safety for your members. They will essentially get nice facility to practice their skills. It will feel for them like they play creative mode :) 

 

Oh wait... isn't what this game is about?

 

So you see what you proposing here? Rob many organisations from this possibility because you want free facilities for that. It is, because this very thing comes with game play, stimulates economy, gives people things to do, game make sense. If you can't see how DU is different here? I seriously recommend you, to rethink if you really got the core idea of DU.

While I see the validity of your point it is sort of like saying let's give up photoshop because having to manually edit photos/prints will create jobs and give people something to do. 

 

I think it is more realistic that this society would bring with them the capacity to draft technology without having to build it in the real world.

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I'm not against neither for creative mode... But I have to say that airline companies don't really build an airplane model from scratch,

it comes from computer simulation, modeling and stuff..

and after the conception phase, they do tests on a prototype (I suppose) ..

 

But it's true that the first plane wasn't designed in CATIA...

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20 hours ago, Quaken said:

Though i would thoroughly enjoy a single player creative mode until Alpha, ill have to disagree with your original statement. BUT, if there was such a thing, i think it should be very limited (small area to go around in) and no progress being transferred out of that mode. Otherwise the impact on the game would be too against what NQ has talked about wanting.

This isn't about a single player creative mode. It is about a construct design tool integrated into the client.

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19 hours ago, ATMLVE said:

Actually, it is fundamentally and inarguably true, by logic. Limiting users in their ability to make ships can only possibly make the process more complicated. The more tools you give to people to help them make ships, the easier the process becomes. Whether or not it is a good motive for not allowing players a free creative environment to design ships, that is up for debate. 

 

That it would make the process more difficult, and thus make there be fewer good ship builders, is not an opinion however, it is a fact. 

Okay, I can agree with that point. I am stating that limiting tools with the intent to limit the number of good _________ is a bad practice. Industry has proven that the availability of effective tools is a growth factor for prosperity.

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19 hours ago, Lethys said:

No it wouldn't solve any problem:

- builders would have an unfair advantage on the market because they can just create any ship/blueprint with no reason for them to defend themselves

- players would still be split

- less interaction between players, as everyone who wants to build something won't be there

- less emergent gameplay because orgs and players don't need to come up with tactics to protect their builders

 

I'm all in for some kind of creative mode in-game as nq said they want to implement, but I want it to be balanced. And I want it to be useful, well thought out and emergent for everyone.

I'm all in for some kind of creative mode in-game as nq said they want to implement, but I want it to be balanced. And I want it to be useful, well thought out and emergent for everyone.

 

I agree with most of this statement, except for the timetable as stated by NQ. I am fine with it being some sort of bay that generates a, "holographic interface." 

 

The experience could be you step up to the bay, click Load Building Area 1, and then see a landscape upon which you can build in a sort of creative mode. This interface could allow other players to enter the same building area.

 

The way this could be done with technology currently slated for development is the use of these distant areas.

 

This way the corporations could protect these rooms, the players would still be vulnerable while interfacing, yet it still provides a tool for the design, creation, and iteration of designs.

 

A civilization this advanced would likely have the capacity to draft things in a fairly accurate simulation.

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19 hours ago, wizardoftrash said:

Not to mention if creating a blueprint for a construct requires little to no actual material investment, then the market would be loaded with blueprints especially saturated with bad ones. This would devalue blueprints sharply, and therefor devalue R&D as an activity. Not a fan

I don't see how a saturation of bad blueprints would devalue good blueprints.

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18 hours ago, Lachenlaud said:

I'm not sure I like this concept - the gameplay is supposed to be emergent and immersive based on player interaction.  If we can just go 'whomp' there's my starship from a blueprint we design offline, the emergent factor is removed - example:  if I am designing something at my base and a band of pirates comes by to shoot up the place, then I have to drop what I'm doing and defend my base and protect my resources and construct that I'm working on...  thats emergent gameplay.  If I can otherwise sit in a protected offline environ ALL the time and design design design its less likely I'm going to be IN WORLD because I'll be busy elsewhere... 

The game includes safe zones and blueprints, this means that most people are going to be designing in a protected area.

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13 hours ago, GunDeva said:

I personally like the idea of some type of creative mode but I have to agree that this should take place with in the game server with all the other players and not on a different server . 

The easy solution for privacy is own a tile in the Safe Zone and then build a base or simple hanger that people cant see in and lock the permission so only you can enter it  .

You are still playing the game and being a productive member while maximizing your privacy, security and being able to build alone if that is what you prefer  .

Just Saying.    =)  

The point of the Construct Creator is to be able to design, test, and iterate constructs without the use of resources, retaining only the blueprints. We have also discussed the idea of the Construct Creator as a way to carry out wargames without loss of resources.

 

An advanced civilization would likely possess both of these things.

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also:

 

from our beloved community manager:

Quote
 

Hi there, 

 

It's true that:

- Massive Constructs "battlestar cruiser" size or "death star" will require incredible amount of resources and may not (or hardly) be possible to build alone.

- We don't plan to let players import design from 3D tools like 3DS Max, Blender or Zbrush.

 

However:

- It's also true that trial & errors will have a massive cost in resources if designing/prototyping a very large of spaceship must be done in the "real" in-game universe.

- It's also true that it would force all large ship designers to get huge amount of resources just for designing, not even for building. The ideal situation would be that the designer role shouldn't be tied to gather huge amounts of resources (this should be left to the production role).

 

In conclusion:

Yes, having a creative mode inside the game, just for designing purpose (without giving any free resources in the "real" in-game universe) is something we are considering.

However, this is a huge feature to develop, and while we would like to add it to the game, there is a high chance it won't be implemented before the official game release. If it's implemented at some point, it will be probably after, in an expansion.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

 

this has been said in a very similar topic not that old...

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30 minutes ago, Celivalg said:

I'm not against neither for creative mode... But I have to say that airline companies don't really build an airplane model from scratch,

it comes from computer simulation, modeling and stuff..

and after the conception phase, they do tests on a prototype (I suppose) ..

 

But it's true that the first plane wasn't designed in CATIA...

Yes. 

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1 minute ago, Celivalg said:

also:

 

from our beloved community manager:

 

 

this has been said in a very similar topic not that old...

Yes. I know. I think it is an important feature pre-launch.

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So we needed 4pages of text for you to realize that nq already planned that. Nice. If only SOMEONE on page 1 would've said it was already planned. Oh, wait....someone did but you wanted something entirely different....

 

And, as said now multiple times, they plan for it. At some point

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I haven't read through the entire thread, and I imagine someone has already voiced this opinion... but what the heck :P

 

I am 100% against this idea in any shape or format.  Building should require resources and testing.  Being able to freely build without resources in order to get a blueprint seems like a bad game design imho.

 

Get the resources, design something... if it's bad, have to do another iteration.  Welcome to real world design ^^

 

Sure, for the alpha we will have unlimited resources to make blueprints.  But the two are not the same.  NQ is giving us unlimited resources to test the game in all capacities, and they are allowing us to keep the blueprints as a thank you.

 

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7 hours ago, Bitmouse said:

The point of the Construct Creator is to be able to design, test, and iterate constructs without the use of resources, retaining only the blueprints. We have also discussed the idea of the Construct Creator as a way to carry out wargames without loss of resources.

 

An advanced civilization would likely possess both of these things.

I think that would be kind of cheating in a game like this seeing what the NQ team is trying to accomplish with a single shard mmo game ? If you no long have to gather resources and take a chance then what's the point in having it in this style of game I could simply go to creative mode and make hundred's of blue prints and sell them with out any risk , gathering or even ever playing the game ? I think this is the point and problem people are trying to make you see if you make it separate from the DU server your not in the community and might as well be a gold farmer not to mention that's not how it works in the real world either : Big company's / organizations try to  keep there R&D research and development a secret  but nothing is 100%

 

Personally I feel the safes way is what I mentioned be for with building a large building /hanger in the safe zone and making it private.

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7 hours ago, Lethys said:

So we needed 4pages of text for you to realize that nq already planned that. Nice. If only SOMEONE on page 1 would've said it was already planned. Oh, wait....someone did but you wanted something entirely different....

 

And, as said now multiple times, they plan for it. At some point

As I just said, I think it is an important feature pre-launch.

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7 hours ago, Hades said:

I haven't read through the entire thread, and I imagine someone has already voiced this opinion... but what the heck :P

 

I am 100% against this idea in any shape or format.  Building should require resources and testing.  Being able to freely build without resources in order to get a blueprint seems like a bad game design imho.

 

Get the resources, design something... if it's bad, have to do another iteration.  Welcome to real world design ^^

 

Sure, for the alpha we will have unlimited resources to make blueprints.  But the two are not the same.  NQ is giving us unlimited resources to test the game in all capacities, and they are allowing us to keep the blueprints as a thank you.

 

That's not real world design. 

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7 hours ago, Celivalg said:

the problem is that if you want blueprints to be worth anything, then creative mode = bad idea

 

 

 

Not true. Blueprints will be worth the quality of their design.

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28 minutes ago, GunDeva said:

I think that would be kind of cheating in a game like this seeing what the NQ team is trying to accomplish with a single shard mmo game ? If you no long have to gather resources and take a chance then what's the point in having it in this style of game I could simply go to creative mode and make hundred's of blue prints and sell them with out any risk , gathering or even ever playing the game ? I think this is the point and problem people are trying to make you see if you make it separate from the DU server your not in the community and might as well be a gold farmer not to mention that's not how it works in the real world either : Big company's / organizations try to  keep there R&D research and development a secret  but nothing is 100%

 

Personally I feel the safes way is what I mentioned be for with building a large building /hanger in the safe zone and making it private.

I am pretty sure the blueprints are not going to be a 1 off thing.

 

Once you sell a blueprint you have already given away the design, unless you can't deconstruct constructs piece by piece.

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14 minutes ago, Bitmouse said:

I am pretty sure the blueprints are not going to be a 1 off thing.

 

Once you sell a blueprint you have already given away the design, unless you can't deconstruct constructs piece by piece.

From  what I remember them saying the owner will have a Master Blue print and can set the leave of permissions that others can have to use your blue prints! Like keeping other players from buying your ship blue print and then trying to sell your designs or mass produce them. 

So if I have a popular design I could possibly sell it to thousands of other players making a killing on in game currency but those players could only use those blue prints for personal use and not mass produce them for sale because of the permissions I have set  on the blue prints I make for other users .

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I disagree... we don't need to be play-testing with construction in an offline mode pre-launch - we need to be testing the system itself.  At some point I could see the need for being able to flesh out designs and specs for various constructs using alternative methods, but the whole idea of an emergent system is for us to come up with ways to make things happen on our own, not through the intervention of the devs of the game.  We will have the ability to script in lua; to what level we can code remains to be seen, but the system for development needs to come from the players of the game. 

 

Society didn't get handed a gizmo that they could allow them to plan out their future with no consequences.  We had to figure it out on our own, and from what I've gathered of the concept behind this particular environ we are heading for, its supposed to be US, the players, driving the avatars within the game, who will have to come up with the tools, constructs, and devices needed to survive and succeed using the tools provided for us by the people who sent us off on the ark in the first place (if you want to avoid being OP about it.)

 

One of the things I love and hate about Empyrion (one of the other games I play) is the fact that there IS the ability for people to whomp something up with no consequences, and then they can toss resources into that offline facility where the item is constructed, and can't be touched by other players and whip it into existence in a heartbeat to be able to utilize it at a whim.  

 

I get the idea of where you're coming from... I love to be able to build and create and learn from my mistakes, but frankly I, for one, am looking forward to being able to experience everything in-world... consequences, risk, loss, and learning from my mistakes included. 

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1 hour ago, Bitmouse said:

Not true. Blueprints will be worth the quality of their design.

Except a risk-free unlimited resource way of producing blueprints decreases the material cost and infrastucture to 0, every joe-shmo can build a blueprint for a stealth bomber or high performance fighter, and with so many blueprints on the market, they become worth nothing.

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4 hours ago, Bitmouse said:

As I just said, I think it is an important feature pre-launch.

And as NQ said, it will be added. But probably after release with a patch.

And to me this makes sense because you would only need such a feature for very expensive (=huge) ships. And as such ships won't pop up until way after launch (because of economy), you don't really need such a feature pre-launch

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On 9/27/2017 at 10:22 PM, GunDeva said:

I personally like the idea of some type of creative mode but I have to agree that this should take place with in the game server with all the other players and not on a different server . 

The easy solution for privacy is own a tile in the Safe Zone and then build a base or simple hanger that people cant see in and lock the permission so only you can enter it  .

You are still playing the game and being a productive member while maximizing your privacy, security and being able to build alone if that is what you prefer  .

Just Saying.    =)  

Hey GunDeva. Sorry. I posted my response after a long day and I was tired. I agree with your points here. My point is that that is redundant when a civilization would have the technology to draft creations, like we have now. What would be more likely going out collecting minerals and then creating/destroying creations until you get a final design, or just drafting it in a program until you get something that works on paper and then trying it out in the real world?

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