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jrhod99

Organization Storage

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I was reading a book recently that had a video game as it's setting. Within it there was a storage system for guilds in which items or other things with value could be given to the guild in exchange for guild contribution points which could be used to get other items in the guild's storage that had already been collected. And I was wondering if the storage systems could be set up with a fairly complex mechanic such as this, and wondering what everyone else thought about it. Also would it be honor based or possibly enforced by the system.

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I couldn't see why not the RDMS system could be tailored for this purpose (granted NQ adds some detection and If statements with it)

Players could probably write the script, if we can attach a script to a container that can handle events for putting things into / taking things out of the container.

 

You could probably make a similar system in minecraft using redstone XD. From what NQ has shown us so far in that devblog where they have circuits, I'm sure there will be a way to automate it either with scripting or circuits or both.

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Players could probably write the script, if we can attach a script to a container that can handle events for putting things into / taking things out of the container.

 

You could probably make a similar system in minecraft using redstone XD. From what NQ has shown us so far in that devblog where they have circuits, I'm sure there will be a way to automate it either with scripting or circuits or both.

The Search for Arkstone: Coming Late 2017.

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Or just a container with proper rdms tags

My understanding was that we want a container that can automatically count "points" to a "points counter" somewhere, and make it so you can only withdraw items depending on how many "points" you have.

 

From my understanding the normal functionality of the containers wouldn't be set up for that without implementing a script.

 

EX: Script designates the following values

Diamond = 20 points

Copper = 3 points

Iron = 1 Point

 

Lets say I have 0 points with my organization, but our storage has a Diamond in it and I want it.

However I have 5 Copper and 10 Iron

If I deposit my 5 Copper into storage, I gain 15 points (5x3)

I deposit my 10 Iron into storage, I gain 10 points (1x10)

 

Now the container will let me take the diamond, reducing my points by 20, leaving me with 5 points left to spend later.

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Yes, the points are called quanta. You're just asking for a shop, where the org sets the sell/buy order prices, accessible by members only

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Yes, the points are called quanta. You're just asking for a shop, where the org sets the sell/buy order prices, accessible by members only

Doesn't Quanta cost DACs?

Also, if you want to make a private currency in your organization (for reasons), it could work with the proposed script by Veln and Jared.

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First off, I would like to correct your spelling (Bloody Americans) Its Organisation 

 

But now, to the answer, NQ stated that all materials would take up physical space and are not just numbers, so unless I have misunderstood what you're trying to say, you cannot just teleport items across Alioth and solar systems.

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The idea has been brought up in the past. Loyalty Points. Thing is, NQ wants no player or faction currency. Welp, nothing prevents you from setting up your own third party accounting software + database though, right?

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The idea has been brought up in the past. Loyalty Points. Thing is, NQ wants no player or faction currency. Welp, nothing prevents you from setting up your own third party accounting software + database though, right?

Let's make DU the spreadsheet emulator 2.0!

 

Ok but apart from that, markets are localized, which means there is no global auction house or something. The proposal with market units isn't too far-fetched, the problem is that it uses Quanta instead of fictional points. That means, members can take stuff out but don't necessarily need to fill other stuff in since they can get Quanta from all possible other sources but not just the org's market unit.

However, you can still get the money of your members that way for personal use. 

Which is again, where the next problem arises, because when there's money in the market unit and you want to enable your members to store their resources in it by selling them to that market unit, a member could potentially abuse the system and sell a lot of worthless trash the org currently doesn't need or mabe just more of something than is needed of a selected resource. You are left with no money in the storage but a lot of trash and other players may not even be able to put something else in anymore then.

 

However, I'm positive that with multiple market units that are customized in the right way, this potential for abuse could be reduced to a minimum. Maybe set up a market unit for only copper, one for only iron and one for only diamond and just fill it with a calculated amount of money and only when you need the resource available in the market unit then. Maybe you can even restrict it from either selling or buying resources if you need only one option. 

However, that wouldn't have much in common with the point system anymore.  

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Let's make DU the spreadsheet emulator 2.0!

 

Ok but apart from that, markets are localized, which means there is no global auction house or something. The proposal with market units isn't too far-fetched, the problem is that it uses Quanta instead of fictional points. That means, members can take stuff out but don't necessarily need to fill other stuff in since they can get Quanta from all possible other sources but not just the org's market unit.

However, you can still get the money of your members that way for personal use. 

Which is again, where the next problem arises, because when there's money in the market unit and you want to enable your members to store their resources in it by selling them to that market unit, a member could potentially abuse the system and sell a lot of worthless trash the org currently doesn't need or mabe just more of something than is needed of a selected resource. You are left with no money in the storage but a lot of trash and other players may not even be able to put something else in anymore then.

 

However, I'm positive that with multiple market units that are customized in the right way, this potential for abuse could be reduced to a minimum. Maybe set up a market unit for only copper, one for only iron and one for only diamond and just fill it with a calculated amount of money and only when you need the resource available in the market unit then. Maybe you can even restrict it from either selling or buying resources if you need only one option. 

However, that wouldn't have much in common with the point system anymore.  

 

 

Problem is that's not how economics work.

 

Bring on all the EVE hate, thing is, the Buy-Back Programs from EVE were born to support Jared's idea - even if many alliances don't use Loyalty Point software (which is DKP for space nerds :P ).

 

In EVE, we have the Buy-Back Programs, which are in essence :

 

 

1) Player A of my corporation or alliance, wants to buy stuff with an internal contract. They want to get 100000 units of Ice.

 

2) Player A sets up a Contract for the corporation or alliance and t hey put the price at 90% of the market price of ice.

 

3) Player B goes into the market, with 100000 units of Ice and delivers the contract

 

 

 

You may ask "why would they sell at 90% of the market price? LOL, is player B a moron? Why do that?"

 

Cause :

 

1) Contracts are not subject to taxes, only tariffs (look up the difference). I won't even explain this further, anyone with any basic concept of math understands.

 

2) Player B makes a profit, as they don't have to haul cargo to a far distant market and VERY POSSIBLY, being robbed and lose their cargo ship.

 

3) cause contracts can work on Exchange of items. Yes, barter, you know, "you give me 100000 units of Ice and I give you 1000 Units of Gold". That's that, bartering. You exchange your mineral wealth for someone else's. Weird, right?

 

 

So yeah, people who base their whole game logic around "makin' dat Q-Dough yo" need a hard lesson of macroeconomics.

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My understanding of the OP was that they wanted a system that allows an org to exchange goods for points instead of quanta. Personally I think whether or not it's a good idea to implement something like that depends on your specific situation.

 

Example situation where a points system might make sense: An org requires a specific material to save their asses in the current war but doesn't have the quanta to buy it, however local org members have it. The org decides to award points for donating that specific material, which can be redeemed for other goods in the org store.

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1) write a lua script which assigns points to players for doing certain tasks

 

2) set up a container with stuff and proper rdms tags

 

3) profit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) realise that lua can't assign tags

 

5) ????

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4) realise that lua can't assign tags

 

5) ????

 

What tags are you referring to? The rdms tags?

 

I don't know how you're supposing it's going to work on the scripting end, but you wouldn't have to change a tag on a container to get an item.

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Lethys' tags are not the RDMS tags. The Lua tags are just finction variables.

Ok but what do Lua tags have to do with the topic? The script for something like this wouldn't need to assign tags.

 

( If there's a joke here that has flown way over my head I'm very sorry XD;;;;; )

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Ok but what do Lua tags have to do with the topic? The script for something like this wouldn't need to assign tags.

 

( If there's a joke here that has flown way over my head I'm very sorry XD;;;;; )

RDMS assigns tags on a person. A tag can be "you can only look inside XYZ containers". Another tag may be "you can get things out of XYZ containers for a price".

 

People assume you can set up tables (inventories) in Lua and have a pseudo "archive" of who can get out what.

 

 

Problem with that is, for NQ to allow it, they will have to hack Lua's functions to accomodate for userdata within the game.

 

 

i.e.

 

 

Have a container with guns. armor and ammo. Each item in the container, is catalogued. To pull an item out, you need to give a certain amount of points and only if you have a certain "reputation" in the organisation (a tag level assigned to you by your superiors).

 

But here's the problem. That container has to callback to database in the game to establish who got how many Loyalty Points.  And it's the main problem. Lua is not meant for netcoding or for backend communications for databases - that's PHP's thing (or some other inferior language, we don't judge). Lua is an extension of C++, it has limits on what it can do.

 

 

So, unless NovaQuark HARDCODES loyalty points in the game, Jared's system can't be achieved. If NQ was to allow for an org to assign "loyalty points" to its members, then the "user-data" Lua tag system could work. A container would be setr up i na far distant outpost, you carry with you your informatino on Loyalty Points like a "faction currency". You get an item out of a  container? You lose LP. You do a contract for the alliance or the organisation? You get some LP you can spend on getting an armor.

 

 

This is what Lethys means. Lua can't magically carry and propagate information across differnet containers and it can't auto-apply RDMS tags for each person. It's a script, not real smart A.I.

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RDMS assigns tags on a person. A tag can be "you can only look inside XYZ containers". Another tag may be "you can get things out of XYZ containers for a price".

 

People assume you can set up tables (inventories) in Lua and have a pseudo "archive" of who can get out what.

 

 

PRoblem with that is, for NQ to allow it, they will have to hack Lua's functions to accomodate for userdata within the ghame.

 

 

i.e.

 

 

Have a container with guns armor and ammo. Each item in the container ,is catalogued. To pull an item out, you need to give a certain amount of points and only if you have a certain "repuotation" in the organisation (a tag level assigned to you by your superiors).

 

But he'res the problem. That container has to callback to database in the game to establish who got how many Loyalty Points.  And it's the main problem. Lua is not meant for netcoding or for backend communications for databases - that's PHP's thing (or some other inferior language, we don't judge). Lua is an extension of C++, it as limits on what it can do.

 

 

So, unless NovaQuark HARDCODES loyalty points in the game, Jared's system can't be achieved. If NQ was to allow for an rogg to assign "loyalty points" to its members, the the "user-data" Lua tag system could work. A container would be setr up i na far distant outpost, you carry with you your informatino on Loyalty Points like a "faction currency". You get an item out of a  container? You lose LP. You do a contract for the alliance or the organisation? You get some LP you can spend on getting an armor.

 

 

This is what Lethys means. Lua can't amgically carry and proapgate inforamtion across differnet containers and it can't auto-apply tags RDMS tags for each person. It's a script, not real smart A.I.

Sorry I wasn't intending on using Lua tags to store data at all. I figured there would be in-game means of storing the data, whether it's intended for that by NQ or not.

 

I was also under the impression that this was going to be a local system (like local to a building) not a long distance thing.

 

Possible Method 1: Text Storage

In WoW addon development, which also uses Lua, people who wanted to store data in the game (not in a separate file that was local to the computer) would store it in the guild notes per person. Many DKP addons would do this. If NQ has some type of editable-by-script writing thing (whether it's something like an in-game sign or a non-physical note like in WoW) this could work in DU. If Org Notes per member become a thing like they were in WoW, and you can touch them with a script, this would (probably be the only way to) allow for this system to work long distance.

 

Possible Method 2: Rocks in a Box

Technically in minecraft you can use chests to store data by putting certain items in them. In the case of a points system like this, you could fill a chest with 1 Dirt per point. It would end up taking a lot of room, since you would need a chest for each person which would have to be added manually; but if there are modules to move items between containers, and check what's in the containers, you could fill containers with useless rocks to keep track of points.

 

And if neither of those work, screw it XD no points system for you. I'm not saying "OMG omg NQ better implement this right now or I'm gonna lose it @_____@", I'm just proposing that implementing something like this from what we know so far seems plausible.

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Ok thanks for all the feedback, I was trying to think of a way where an organization could build up it's supplies of materials without the need for directly demanding/asking for the materials from the players. Like in this case they get higher grade stuff in exchange for the massive amount of raw materials that an org would need to operate. Taxes could be used to do this but people would become fed up with them very quickly if the benefits of them aren't very tangible.

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