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Shynras

Scavenging ideas

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As you may know, constructs created from blueprints can't be deconstructed to prevent reverse engineering (you could actually shoot to it to remove small bits and do it anyway though). 

This affects scavenging since, after destroying a construct, you'll likely not be able to "mine it". So, the question is, what's the solution to make scavenging a thing? And to make it fun and interesting?

 

IDEA 1 - Losing a construct in battle, removes the blueprint protection:

PRO: pirates could make a living by selling informations. It adds a reason to pvp, instead of the same "resources" thing. People would be more careful with their most complex designs, you'd likely not sell it to the general public if you care about the design to be secret. 

CONS: probably someone could abuse this, there should be a way to rpevent it though.

 

IDEA 2 - There's an element (big and with high energy consumption) capable to deconstruct the ship, not piece by piece, but with the entire wreck at once. 

PRO: You'd likely not carry that element on a ship, so you'd need to carry wrecks on your base. This means that you'd need to grab and land wrecks on your construct to transport them (so you're likely not able to salvage with a small fighter, and i think is good), and ships with the specific role to transport wrecks could be viable. After a huge battle, huge ships capable of carrying wrecks will enter the field, trying to get as many as they can, while their escort will fight with other groups trying to do the same thing. 

CONTRO: I can't see any. 

 

Do you have other ideas?

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If I'm not wrong, you can n8t create blueprint from craft which was created from it (to prevent resell). I didn't see anything about deconstruction. It is illogical (IMO).

 

About ideas.

1. Maybe to create skills which give a chance to find blueprint from ship core (if it is not destroyed).

2. It looks not very real, especially when ships sizes could be huge. Piece by piece, yes. I think it must be one of the functions of shipyard. If it can construct, why it can't deconstruct? Again, it can be allowed after skill learn and shipyard upgrades.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Once the Core is disabled/destroyed, you should be able to deconstruct the wreck and even place a new core on it (so you can fly it around). You won't gain the blueprint for it, but if you capture enough of a single type of ship, you should be able to fully reverse engineer the design (manually, I might add).

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Once the Core is disabled/destroyed, you should be able to deconstruct the wreck and even place a new core on it (so you can fly it around). You won't gain the blueprint for it, but if you capture enough of a single type of ship, you should be able to fully reverse engineer the design (manually, I might add).

Yea, take out the core it shouldn't be recognized as a construct anymore. That should be difficult without destroying most of the construct first though. I guess it will depend on the design.

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First : The Factory Unit seems to be a much larger version of the Nanoformer. This is going to be the one thing that can Construct and Deconstruct constructs for their raw materials, given a Core Unit is in them.. You are asking for SCAVENGING. Salvaging is a totally different thing when it comes to stealing ships.

CWhu5KKW4AASPPk.jpg


Image from twitter :|

Same thing can be mounted on a scavenger ship to start deconstructing the ships you want.

( The reason this can't be used for mining, is because it would make the chinese gold farmers happy. )


Second 

There's no arbiter for "who lost the battle". 

Core Unit => Destroyed => Blueprint lost.

IF a pirate manages to blow up your thrusters you better go and destroy you Core Unit, cause if you cary it on you, they will probably kill you to get it as it's a blueprint on its own. 

And nothing can prevent me from Lua scripting mines around the Core Unit and have them to detonate the moment someone tries to get near that Core Unit.


Third.

If you pummel a ship and destroy 90% along with the Core Unit, you as a pirate, won't be able to repair the ship or get its Lua scripts. Core Unit => Destroyed => Lua scripts gone.

Now, if a person simply destroys their Core Unit and then get killed, you got the option of Salavge that ship by putting your Core Unit in it.

Does the stolen ship fly as good as it is advertised for? No. But it's a Salvaged ship, it was scuttled when the previous owner blew up its Core Unit. 

Taking a broken ship and making it sail again, that's what Salvaging is.

Fourth.

You managed to find a ship parked in open space without anyone around it? You managed to hack its Core Unit?

Congrats, now deconstruct it with your factory unit (or call for your buddy who has one) and split the ownership of the blueprint 50-50, by making an organisation of you two and having the blueprint belong to the organisation.



So yeah, I will be rigging my ship with explosives. Good luck getting on board it. :P

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Yea, take out the core it shouldn't be recognized as a construct anymore. That should be difficult without destroying most of the construct first though. I guess it will depend on the design.

Depending on how damage is done, the ship may have a hit point meter (in addition to voxel damage) and when that depletes, the core becomes disabled and the ship loses power. More damage would then just damage the wreck. Hit points could be based off of core size and ship mass, areas hit could absorb damage (like armouring).

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Depending on how damage is done, the ship may have a hit point meter (in addition to voxel damage) and when that depletes, the core becomes disabled and the ship loses power. More damage would then just damage the wreck. Hit points could be based off of core size and ship mass, areas hit could absorb damage (like armouring).

Not really, they are not doing the "more voxels more HP" thing. Making a ship stop will actually need you to actually make it power off, by destroying power lines in it and junctions.

 

Like THESE ones :

 

Cmn7kMLWIAAujDT.jpg

 

So yeah, you get these damaged, you cut power to the ship. Reinforced materials around theese bad boys => Building challenge.

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Not really, they are not doing the "more voxels more HP" thing. Making a ship stop will actually need you to actually make it power off, by destroying power lines in it and junctions.

 

Like THESE ones :

 

Cmn7kMLWIAAujDT.jpg

 

So yeah, you get these damaged, you cut power to the ship. Reinforced materials around theese bad boys => Building challenge.

So I guess you can then salvage the ship once it has been abandoned by the crew, or you have boarded it to gain control. You then just need to break the ship core and replace it to gain ownership, then get power lines operational or tow it to a safe area in order to make it functional again (you could board the ship whilst it is undamaged to capture it and instantly use it, but that requires planning and a good AvA team).

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So I guess you can then salvage the ship once it has been abandoned by the crew, or you have boarded it to gain control. You then just need to break the ship core and replace it to gain ownership, then get power lines operational or tow it to a safe area in order to make it functional again (you could board the ship whilst it is undamaged to capture it and instantly use it, but that requires planning and a good AvA team).

Well, given what they've said, the Core Unit is what holds the Blueprint data for the voxel grid around the Core Unit.

 

So, if you get a ship and destroy its engines and half its hull and the crew destroys the voxel grid bluepriint holder aka Core Unit, if the pirates were to place a Core Unit at the center of the old one, the NEW Core Unit, would detect the voxels around it as "new placements".

 

The pirates would be having a broken construct that they can't repair, because they don't have access to its blupeirnts.

 

I'ts like WW2 and the German Battleships.

 

They were powerful but the Germans if they were to lose, they would scuttle the ship wholesale, busting electronics, breaking pipeline, unscrewing plates on its decks etc.

 

When the British boarded, they could make no heads or tails of how they were built or how the electronics were set up, so they scrapped them so they could make their own ships.

 

So, the Core Unit is the one that holds the blueprint. IF you don't hack it, you won't get the blueprint.

 

 

So, if you want to salvage a ship, you better come up with a very good infiltration plan to get near one of its Core Units and steal the Blueprint that way, cause ain't nobody building a ship without explosives set in it for that reason.

 

Also, destroying a Core Unit on a ship = its Lua scripts are rendered inert, as the Core Unit is the one to hold the code and the DPU the ones to distribute the scripts themselves, so, as the Beastie Boys said, SABOTAGE .

 

 

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Devs  said that you can't deconstruct a ship created by a blueprint, only add stuff to it. It could work like Twerkmotor said, but then why add a blueprint protection in first place? Someone could just hack his own ship core unit (or ask a friend to do so) to remove the protection and deconstruct it, so I think there's something more that prevents this.

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Devs  said that you can't deconstruct a ship created by a blueprint, only add stuff to it. It could work like Twerkmotor said, but then why add a blueprint protection in first place? Someone could just hack his own ship core unit (or ask a friend to do so) to remove the protection and deconstruct it, so I think there's something more that prevents this.

That's the point. The RDMS protects your SCRIPTS. In order to get those scripts, you have to hack the Core Unit and then have to have the skillset to make a blueprint from it, remember, builders have certain skills of their own to build more and to blueprint bigger things.

 

But the only real protection, would be to add a specific set of defenses on a ship, like mines around its Core Unit and to specifiy to the buyer that if they were to try and open the Core Unit voxel box that it's contained in, the Core Unit would self destruct as a result.

 

Also, if a builder makes military grade ships, he will give the organisation he is selling them to, the password for the self destruct, in order for THEM to be able to scuttle the ship with the aforementioned mechanic of busting the Core Unit (essentially a hard drive of informatioon on the ship) or even a self-destruct sequence going, so the faction losing the battle can ensure their enemies won't get any materials by scavenging the ship itself.

 

It's the best way to ensure these things. The best builders will build that and will probably keep the Lua Scripts associated with their mechanics under lock and key.

 

Also, there can be a voxel grid identification. If a person builds a ship the same as you, there can be a voxel identification to notice the similarities, although, that can be really wonky in the long run, since new players won't be able to build a basic voxel box ship to fly off the starting world.

 

What I'm saying is, boarding an enemy ship will be a challenge, it won't be easy, it will be a struggle against the clock of the ship destroying itself and possibly losing all these free voxels associated with it that can be scavenged for free repairs.

 

But STEALING a ship, without losing its Lua Scripts, will be an actual difficult thing to do. And it SHOULD be difficult. If a guy can steal cars GTA style, that would be really lame.

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Twerk I'm not arguing about that, but I think is OT so I'll create another thread. This thread is still about salvaging and scavenging (actually i meant salvaging when i wrote this, but i guess i played too much mad max lately, and i confused the words xD)

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Twerk I'm not arguing about that, but I think is OT so I'll create another thread. This thread is still about salvaging and scavenging (actually i meant salvaging when i wrote this, but i guess i played too much mad max lately, and i confused the words xD)

Well scavenging is simple then. Find a ship, blow its core, mine it.

 

Salvaging is actually keeping the ship intact and having a guy come and hack the core so you can make it fly again by repairing it.

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The Devs have commented on this.

 

There is the distinct possibility that if you blow the core, the entire construct will blow and drop random voxels and elements as salvage

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The Devs have commented on this.

 

There is the distinct possibility that if you blow the core, the entire construct will blow and drop random voxels and elements as salvage

You could, however, cripple the ship then board and get more salvage. As long as the core does not blow, the ship is fine.

 

The question is, what happens to the crew on-board when the ship blows up?

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Because resources aren't renewable... resources shouldn't be destroyed during combat...  The CvC combat which we won't have until some time after launch... makes these concerns something of speculation of a system a long ways off... but when we do get it...

 

Why not just let it be mined?  It doesn't help you reverse engineer anything. 

 

What's of value in a ship?  The resources it's made of... and the lula scripting of all the parts that can be.  That's all.

 

 

The shape isn't important... and taking big chunks out with your mining tool isn't going to help you figure it out too much.  And certainly is no help at all figuring out what the scripts are that make the thing work.

 

So why not just let it be mined?

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Because resources aren't renewable... resources shouldn't be destroyed during combat...  The CvC combat which we won't have until some time after launch... makes these concerns something of speculation of a system a long ways off... but when we do get it...

 

Why not just let it be mined?  It doesn't help you reverse engineer anything. 

 

What's of value in a ship?  The resources it's made of... and the lula scripting of all the parts that can be.  That's all.

 

 

The shape isn't important... and taking big chunks out with your mining tool isn't going to help you figure it out too much.  And certainly is no help at all figuring out what the scripts are that make the thing work.

 

So why not just let it be mined?

The shape is one of the things we have the most control of and it is definitely important. Better designs can provide better armor with the same material. Reverse engineering will play a significant part in the game when someone comes up with something better.

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The shape is one of the things we have the most control of and it is definitely important. Better designs can provide better armor with the same material. Reverse engineering will play a significant part in the game when someone comes up with something better.

 

From what I've seen and from the description of how a mesh is generated for the ship... I don't think that's true.  Voxelmancy as seen in Landmark doesn't seem to be a thing in DU.  And even if it was the mesh generation would null anything but thickness of material for armor... so...  There's nothing about the shape worth reverse engineering.  The shape is cosmetic.

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