Jump to content
GalloInfligo

Public Resurrection Nodes

Recommended Posts

 

 

This is an interesting idea. We would have to think about the gameplay consequences (like the fact that mutualized RN would be a single-point of failure for all who rely on them), but we are open to discussion about it, yes.
 

 

 

I dont know what happened, I typed up everything and when I hit post only the above showed up :(

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to build Resurrection Nodes (RN) that I can assign usage using the RDMS.  I would like to either charge a usage tax at time of usage, or a prepaid tax to get the flag to use.

 

From what we know about character death and RNs, you don't get to pick where you spawn, you have to use the closest.  These RNs are extremely expensive to build, and require large amounts of power, especially to recharge them fast.

 

So if i explore and start a base/city in a remote area, and I build RNs for public use, with a tax, that helps offset the expense of both building them and powering them, and also provides new comers to that solar system an easy, close RN to use instead of going way back to the closest one they built.  This service of course is only there until they build their own RN to use, if they decide to have that expense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember a video saying organizations could have resurrection nodes that members could use.

 

If we can be members to multiple organizations, then it's plausible that you could lease membership.

 

I don't think you could charge someone AFTER they die. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you die I believe you'll have an option to select from Resurrection Nodes within range. It would clearly and easily be abused by people if you were forced to use the same one that's closest to you over and over again.

 

Being an item, yes well be able to tag them in various ways. Party only, organisation only, public, etc.

 

Not known if the Novark resurrection node is special. I would assume it probably is and has infinite range. So if you die somewhere far off in the edge of nowhere youll always have one place to re-spawn at.

 

Don't let anyone fool you, NQ has not explicitly stated the operational mechanics of the RN's. Even if they've said vaguely that they take a lot of power or have recharge timers, the context of what they mean by that isn't well understood.

 

Does it mean that if you die repeatedly that you have a longer death cooldown. or can the node only spawn 1 person per minute. because obviously at times more than 1 person will die within a short period of time and people arent going to wait around a half an hour to rez.

 

NQ arent fools and they arent going to intentionally implement broken game mechanics that allow people to be captured and forced into slavery, good luck trying, If I notice its broken like that in alpha Ill be submitting long well planned solutions to make the game playable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you die I believe you'll have an option to select from Resurrection Nodes within range. It would clearly and easily be abused by people if you were forced to use the same one that's closest to you over and over again.

 

Being an item, yes well be able to tag them in various ways. Party only, organisation only, public, etc.

 

Not known if the Novark resurrection node is special. I would assume it probably is and has infinite range. So if you die somewhere far off in the edge of nowhere youll always have one place to re-spawn at.

 

Don't let anyone fool you, NQ has not explicitly stated the operational mechanics of the RN's. Even if they've said vaguely that they take a lot of power or have recharge timers, the context of what they mean by that isn't well understood.

 

Does it mean that if you die repeatedly that you have a longer death cooldown. or can the node only spawn 1 person per minute. because obviously at times more than 1 person will die within a short period of time and people arent going to wait around a half an hour to rez.

 

NQ arent fools and they arent going to intentionally implement broken game mechanics that allow people to be captured and forced into slavery, good luck trying, If I notice its broken like that in alpha Ill be submitting long well planned solutions to make the game playable.

they said you will not get to choose one, because then it would make a way for players to teleport, choosing the one they are trying to get close to.  it was said the plan now is you go to the closest one.

 

Also they have already said that you cant trap someone like this as you will always have the ability to go to the ARC ship as an option like suicide.  

 

What I am talking about is the ability to provide a service and make a profit from it, in a new system/planet that someone would want to spawn at rather than the closest one which might be pretty far. until they get their own built.  If they even decide to build one they might just prefer this service.

 

My original post shows their answer to the question I asked for the AMA event, that they are interested in it.  My point with this post was to open discussions on how to best implement it with out breaking the game.  As NQ stated they were open to discussion about it, which I took as community discussion.

 

They have not specifically stated that you can share these, as the dev blog makes it sound like it is hard coded(flagged) to only you.  Hence why I asked about this int he AMA, 

 

Here is the  Dev Blog on how they work, and yes I understand this is not explicitly stated how they are going to work, but with all their dev blogs, this is what we as players have to go one, and their PLAN on how they plan on them working.  I don't consider a Dev Blog article a vaguely stated way they plan to make them work.

 

The Arc ship one is special as in everyone gets to use it, and it has an almost instant rest timer based on recharge power.  From the sounds of it, the one you build will have a timer based on how much power you send to it, and if it is recharging, then you skip it and go to the next closest one to spawn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry its been several months since i read that. I appreciate the reminder and I meant no harm.

 

I'm merely looking at it from a game development viewpoint. Understandably they dont want people suiciding as a means of teleportation. But possibly theyll have a method for jump clones, the tag system might allow for it, and they're fans of EvE but thats not what Im actually concerned about.

 

By simply having a well known hard limit that you respawn at the nearest nodes, regardless of tags. Why wouldnt the Orkrassians in this example of war, just have their own res nodes setup and set to public. Then all enemy soldiers that die will get teleport ed into their facility with no weapons.

If the RN is as expensive as they make it sound, it isnt going to be something thats on every little ship, so im quite positive the closest RN will be the ones in the enemy base the enemy of the Orkrassians are attacking.

 

Conversely if these spies sneak in and disabled all the Orkrassian RN's and the Orkrassians started spawning on the enemy carrier in orbit or whatever, thats a pretty big problem as well. The option to spawn at the ark ship is good, and a curse.

 

I suppose I was trying to suggest several different things and I just did a very very poor job of it.

 

1.) Tags that enable a player made rez node to be set as your "home" rez location.

 

2.) Player made rez nodes having a small broadcast, perhaps 1 to 10 solar systems, when players select a higher range it costs more energy to broadcast the quantum web that catches your death in time space.

 

From a gameplay perspective
Players don't tend to die in an orderly fashion spaced apart 5 minutes each with the spawn tube having plenty of time to recharge. Rez nodes cant be both a personal item and a high valuable expensive thing.

A Ship blows up and twenty to thirty people die, will we just have huge areas with hundreds of resurection nodes? If thats possible are they really valuable?

If they're actually very rare and super valuable, then if it takes an hour, or a day for a single resurrection node to recharge whats really the use? nobody will revolve a strategy around spawning at a nearby RN, the commanders of players will just yell "ok respawn and do blah blah..", and everyone will know that means at the arkship.

 

Basically I think that what they're planning, and some of the concepts around the nodes value, resource consumption, and re-use time don't exactly line up.

To a degree im sure he means by if you only have maybe 1 generator putting out a little power, it may take a long time to recharge. but if you have a ton of power, it might take only a few seconds.

 

How that information is relayed to players, I'm not sure, will they be placed into a queue, will they have a timer showing how long to wait and use this nearby resurrection node in order to make an informed decision on whether to click wait, or respawn at the Novark.

 

I see them saying you start with a node in your inventory you can place, sort of nice, but also questionable. Why not just make a new character and get more RN's?

Unless the starter res node is forcibly limited to only your usage and is a special item.

 

Didnt mean to sound offensive to you or anything, you are raising a good conversation here. I should have said something more like, I feel that dev blog is a bit of a conceptual spill about RN's that JC Baillie and some of the team had and while representing the design principles, was still vague enough to leave themselves room to improve it or change it to work better.

Not you, but other members > I also sometimes see community members presenting their opinions as fact and it gets all blurred together and vague. As for the past, now, alpha, and beyond, I've just been here on the sidelines trying to present reasonable concepts about game function.

In this case, RN's cant be both rare and common, expensive to operate but accessible enough for a guy building his first hut to charge and use. Something everyone spawns with, but only powerful orgs/ players will be able to achieve.

---
Edit, specifically about you point, yeah sure why would you not be able to set a node to public. Im sure The Outfit will have a town with a medical bay with RN's in it. Just set them public, the rez screen will probably inform people if there is a fee to use a nearby rez node. If not theres a good suggestion some1 can offer NQ.

Otherwise, you could always set it public and free and charge a basic fee to leave the building. but also I could recommend setting it to free to use and to leave, and simply offering the common goods people will stock up on right next to the tubes.

If your base is known to be a good place to spawn and yall are cool its more likely to bring people around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually Neo makes some very good points there.

 

I have been an advocate for the option of public res nodes since day 1 but after reading Neo's post I'm not so sure anymore.

 

I would like the option for public nodes but clearly its not that simple.

Hmmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Public nodes seems interesting I like the idea.

 

The problems is if it is implemented you would have to be able to chose between free nodes and your own node/the ark and if that happens it becomes a teleportation system like the dev fear.

 

Why should we be able to choose to use or not a free node?

Because it could be use to trap dying enemies to a location where you could trap them or kill them endlessely : if you place a free resurrection node between the enemy's and the battlefield they would be forced to resurrect there ,hence you could do whatever you like to them or force them to resurrect to the ark far away of the battlefield.

 

So how could we implement the free node system without creating a teleport on death system or a trap-your-ennemy on death system?

 

-> We introduce radius of re-spawn.

Then, when you die you will have to choose between all nodes in your radius. You will thus be able to avoid enemy's trap (at least you get trapped only once) and it will limit in scale the teleport on death system because you could only jump-upon-death to a maximum of the radius distance.

 

The radius could limited to not be able to the minimum distance between two planets so that re-spawn from one planet to another would not be possible for example.

 

If you don't wish to choose a node inside the radius then you would be resurrected to the first non free node outside your radius like the current system.

 

What do you guys think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The radius respawn idea might work; however let's say it's early in the game and we don't have FTL yet so we setup a RN bridge across a solar system between two planets. Like the intergalactic Stargate bridge in Stargate Atlantis

 

This would be absurdly expensive; however, it would allow less than an hour travel versus days at sublight.

 

Well this would be a teleport system it wouldn't really be game breaking depending on the RNs radius.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Neo, you make a lot of very good points, and I didn't think you meant any harm, I didn't either, I am usually short and brash, its how I got my name.  From the way I was understanding how they work, it could take a few seconds to minuets to hours or days to recharge a RN after using it, based on the power supply you have to recharge it.

 

Maybe they could add an option for us to check or not check in the setting on if we allow ourselves to be resurrected in a public node?  I also like Bluestorm's idea of a RN radius that allows selection between any of them in a small radius from your death location, and by small I would have to say one planet, or so many sectors of space when not near a planet.  Another idea to prevent abuse it that they can only be set to public, in a public access area/construct, and/or in a safe zone.

 

I can see it getting abused if it lets you pick while dead if you want to pay to use one, as I could build a chain of them and allow a player to keep saying no, till they get to the location they are trying to get to.  so if this was implemented I think its a all or none style question, not a selection process.

 

I cant remember where I seen it but I remember seeing that your second one you start with will be non trade able, so maybe they could also make them so they are for private use only?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would anyone be willing to link source material for what led to this discussion?  This is the first I am hearing of it.

 

 

Also because of their answer here https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10000-kickstarter-ama-event-first-part/

which I quoted in the original post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a suggestion:

If you get tagged with permissions to use an RN, that's not enough to be able to use it. You must also tag the RN with some kind of special permission tag also. Only after you give and get permission, will you be able to resurrect at an RN.

 

Additionally, once you give permission to an RN, you can't take it back. The tag that gives you permission could be integrated into membership of whatever organization owns the RN. So if you can't take your tag back, and presumably the organization won't be willing to keep kicking and rejoining you, there would be limits to the abuse. Because you need to tag the RN yourself, you don't get sucked into some mystery RN that you've never seen before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of having them set as organization property, but i feel that would be enough, if you join an organization, even if its a seperate one just for RN usage, than you should be able to trust all they have. Otherwise the organization will lose members and taxes.

 

Also there is supposed to be a warranty system, so if you pay a tax and then i remove your tag, the warranty kicks in to reimburse you that set amount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good idea.  I think that they should set it so that we could choose several options, like go to your home or the closest one, either free or paid.  Might still be open for a bit of abuse, but if you have to go retrieve your body/backpack (or whatever) then it can't be used as a short cut to take home a bunch of resources  or anything.   No one is forced to use it, but it might be worth the cost if you don't have to go all the way back home. 

 

It could also be used as a strategy to get folks to come and visit your town.  Free RN, and while you're here stop and have a bite and some buffs and maybe buy a new gun before you head out again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good idea.  I think that they should set it so that we could choose several options, like go to your home or the closest one, either free or paid.  Might still be open for a bit of abuse, but if you have to go retrieve your body/backpack (or whatever) then it can't be used as a short cut to take home a bunch of resources  or anything.   No one is forced to use it, but it might be worth the cost if you don't have to go all the way back home. 

 

It could also be used as a strategy to get folks to come and visit your town.  Free RN, and while you're here stop and have a bite and some buffs and maybe buy a new gun before you head out again.

Sure, that should be an option. Either "Go Home" or "Nearest Node" upon death.

 

But no more options, cause Resurrection Nodes will end up being teleporters.

 

Although, the possibility of an RN used as a prison portal upon death can still be utilised, but it should take massive resources to pull it off, like, having a quantum scrambler in the area, blocking long-distance quantum induced trasnportation (what the RN does in the lore) and have people that invade your system to have the possibility of being taken as POWs.

 

That will make pirates afraid of going near civilisation for sure as well, keeping them in their place in dark space, where they should be residing to begin with :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, that should be an option. Either "Go Home" or "Nearest Node" upon death.

 

But no more options, cause Resurrection Nodes will end up being teleporters.

 

Although, the possibility of an RN used as a prison portal upon death can still be utilised, but it should take massive resources to pull it off, like, having a quantum scrambler in the area, blocking long-distance quantum induced trasnportation (what the RN does in the lore) and have people that invade your system to have the possibility of being taken as POWs.

 

That will make pirates afraid of going near civilisation for sure as well, keeping them in their place in dark space, where they should be residing to begin with :P

 

 

Well they also said they were going to have a suicide option and a return to Ark option to prevent people from trapping anyone in a inescapable situation.  So if it was used as a prison portal, it would only be a very short prison term.

 

I also agree this could be a way to deter pirates or just plain griefers from messing with established civilizations.  They want the players to handle that anyway, and this sounds like a good way to keep them away ;)

 

Also to have this established as a organization that makes money from it, its just another business idea instead of building ships to sell.  I mean we need to come up with more stuff to offer in a city why not this ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they also said they were going to have a suicide option and a return to Ark option to prevent people from trapping anyone in a inescapable situation.  So if it was used as a prison portal, it would only be a very short prison term.

 

I also agree this could be a way to deter pirates or just plain griefers from messing with established civilizations.  They want the players to handle that anyway, and this sounds like a good way to keep them away ;)

 

Also to have this established as a organization that makes money from it, its just another business idea instead of building ships to sell.  I mean we need to come up with more stuff to offer in a city why not this ;)

I did state in the Q&A thread, that people forget an aspect of DUAL.

 

Survival and that RNs drain power after every respawn. RNs, are limited in use.

 

If you get caught in an Ark prison, you have three options. Pay the bail (or ask for others to bail you), do your time (reasonable times given a player's level of griefing) and / or do the Prison Break cha-cha.

 

What do I mean? Die, Respawn, Repeat. That will slowlly dry the RN power every time you respawn, and POSSIBLY, skillpoints to your character, in essence, delevelling your skills. And more importantly, player-run Arkifaction-zone Prisons, places I like to call Ark Prisons (or even Gullags O.o ), may end up be wired to the same power source, as Arkification Zones are a more powerful version of the Protection Force Buble JC spoken of.

 

So, the inmate HAS options in a prison. A successful prison break may even take down an entire prison for ALL the inmates.

 

I will personally go for the "Call the Twerkmotor Fanclub" and be done with it. I ain't got time for delevelling :P

 

So, to recap.

 

Hunger => Prisoner dies => Respawns to the RN-Pokeball => RN loses power => Prison power source is depleted => Prison goes down => Arkification Field goes down => Epic Escape.

 

The possibility for epic, player-run events is here. It's a sandbox game and I can't see no higher level of emergent gameplay other than Emergent Prison Break Gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lets not forget CaptianTwerkmotor, that the nano tube is a weapon so you will always spawn with a weapon.  now the question would be, is that weapon going to be strong enough to give another break out option?  That is all assuming that they wouldn't just choose the suicide and re spawn at ark ship option too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...