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Supermega

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  1. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from Karyfars in Need for more Voxel Brush shapes, and options.   
    Disclaimer: All ideas are based on the publicly available info, not under NDA.

    Hello, so one of my biggest concerns with the voxel building tools so far, is the lack of support for curved shapes. I really think it would be sad to see an amazing game like this, filled with only Minecraft Box spaceships. Because curved shapes are so impossible to make. So here are a few basic additions I think could really improve on the current voxel building system. I know, more advanced voxel editing are planned like being able to edit control points, and a Voxel Element Library for more complex shapes. But, there are other, more simple things I think that can be done to get curved shapes into the game sooner rather then later. So, the basic idea is to make curved voxel shapes easily available so players would be encouraged to build none box shaped ships and constructs. I did some artwork to help illustrate my ideas. Please feel free to discuss and give feedback on this thread in the comments. Ok, So lets dive right into it.
     
     
    These pictures are examples of designs that can be made with these shapes.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
     
    Starting Primitives
    So, there are several shapes to begin with when using the voxel deploy tool. Here are some important primitives I suggest should be added as voxel brush shapes. Those shapes are Oblate Sphere, Prolate Sphere, Cone, Torus, Elbow Joint.

    Why these shapes?
    The reason I chose these shapes is because they are nearly impossible to make with with the current tools. An even with advanced editing options, they would still be difficult to get right. So it seems like a no-brainer to have these shapes as starting primitives for the voxel brush. It would make it much easier to start creating curved shaped constructs, and encourage more creative designs.
     
    This picture is of the voxel shapes I think should be added to the voxel brush tool.

     
     
    Voxel Shape Options
    So the next thing is an a expansion on the voxel shapes, by adding parameters before/after the shapes is deployed. For example, having an option like size, and diameter of the TORUS shape before/after you deploy it, or option to set how extreme the elongation is on the SPHERE or CONE before/after you deploy it, and even maybe set the angle of the Elbow joint. So, the way I imagine it would work is, when you select a starting primitive shape, shortcuts like arrow keys, numbers keys are used to set the value of the shape options, then you can deploy it as normal. Also, having an option box that would stay on screen as long as you're using that shape could work too, so that you can continue to change options and deploy new shapes.

    This pictures give an example of what changing the options would look like on each shape.
              
     
     
    Bevel, Fillet, sharpen edge tool
    So, we currently have a tool that allows builder to smooth edges, but to expand on that idea, I think we should also have the option to Bevel, Fillet, or sharpen edges as needs. The issue is that most times the smooth tool does not give the desired result, or maybe you only want to bevel an edge but not smooth it, or maybe you want some edges with a fillet and some edges sharpen. I imagine it working exactly like the current smooth edge tool, except you would be able to Bevel an edge, Fillet an edge, or Sharpen an edge.
     
     
    This pictures below illustrates how the tool would effect the edge. This is the current smooth tool.
               
     
     
    Additional Ideas
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Scale Axes
    I think this is a simple, but vary important option that needs to be available. Basically we have the option to scale the size of voxel primitives, but we should also have the option to scale voxel primitives on a specific axis (X, Y, Z). This I think would definitely add greater control to create the desired shapes, as well as enhance the freedom of creativity.
     
    Hollow Primitives
    So, this thought came to me last minute, but I think its something that shouldn't be overlooked. The ability to start with hollow voxel primitives. Either a voxel brush option to deploy hollow voxels, or solid, and set the wall thickness, or have hollow voxel shapes as a standard starting shape to choose from. I know that there is an option to cut out voxels using primitives shapes, but the main issue is that cutting out voxels gives a very ugly looking result, most times the edges don't look right at all, or you need a hard edge but the cut out has a rounded edge with a messy texture. Also, hollow primitive shapes would improve the speed, and ease of use when building constructs. Especially when working with curved shapes. Trying to hollow out a curved shape would be a nightmare, so starting with a hollow shape would be great.
     
    Voxel Elements
    So my last suggestion is in regard to Voxel Elements. Novaquark mention in this DevBlog that will have a Library of detail, or complex voxel shapes that players could use in their constructs. They mentioned a spiral staircase as an example. Well, here are a few shapes that I think should be included in that database of Voxel Elements.

    Pictures of suggested Voxel Elements to add to the Voxel Library.

     

    I know that a voxel point cloud editing system is in development, list on trello Here. That will really open up lots of possibilities for builders. But, in addition to that, having a variety of voxel brush shapes to start with is still needed to give builders alternative options, because sometimes doing things one way just may not work out how you need it to, so having other ways to create shapes is a big help.
     
    I think that covers the general ideas I had. My overall goal is to see more spaceships and constructs that aren't just limited to boxed shapes, and enable creative builders to really unleash their imagination. An I feel adding additional shapes to the Voxel Brush tool would be a good way to accomplish that goal. Please feel free to give feedback in the comments.

    Thanks for reading, see you in the next thread.
     
     
  2. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from Takao in Need for more Voxel Brush shapes, and options.   
    Disclaimer: All ideas are based on the publicly available info, not under NDA.

    Hello, so one of my biggest concerns with the voxel building tools so far, is the lack of support for curved shapes. I really think it would be sad to see an amazing game like this, filled with only Minecraft Box spaceships. Because curved shapes are so impossible to make. So here are a few basic additions I think could really improve on the current voxel building system. I know, more advanced voxel editing are planned like being able to edit control points, and a Voxel Element Library for more complex shapes. But, there are other, more simple things I think that can be done to get curved shapes into the game sooner rather then later. So, the basic idea is to make curved voxel shapes easily available so players would be encouraged to build none box shaped ships and constructs. I did some artwork to help illustrate my ideas. Please feel free to discuss and give feedback on this thread in the comments. Ok, So lets dive right into it.
     
     
    These pictures are examples of designs that can be made with these shapes.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
     
    Starting Primitives
    So, there are several shapes to begin with when using the voxel deploy tool. Here are some important primitives I suggest should be added as voxel brush shapes. Those shapes are Oblate Sphere, Prolate Sphere, Cone, Torus, Elbow Joint.

    Why these shapes?
    The reason I chose these shapes is because they are nearly impossible to make with with the current tools. An even with advanced editing options, they would still be difficult to get right. So it seems like a no-brainer to have these shapes as starting primitives for the voxel brush. It would make it much easier to start creating curved shaped constructs, and encourage more creative designs.
     
    This picture is of the voxel shapes I think should be added to the voxel brush tool.

     
     
    Voxel Shape Options
    So the next thing is an a expansion on the voxel shapes, by adding parameters before/after the shapes is deployed. For example, having an option like size, and diameter of the TORUS shape before/after you deploy it, or option to set how extreme the elongation is on the SPHERE or CONE before/after you deploy it, and even maybe set the angle of the Elbow joint. So, the way I imagine it would work is, when you select a starting primitive shape, shortcuts like arrow keys, numbers keys are used to set the value of the shape options, then you can deploy it as normal. Also, having an option box that would stay on screen as long as you're using that shape could work too, so that you can continue to change options and deploy new shapes.

    This pictures give an example of what changing the options would look like on each shape.
              
     
     
    Bevel, Fillet, sharpen edge tool
    So, we currently have a tool that allows builder to smooth edges, but to expand on that idea, I think we should also have the option to Bevel, Fillet, or sharpen edges as needs. The issue is that most times the smooth tool does not give the desired result, or maybe you only want to bevel an edge but not smooth it, or maybe you want some edges with a fillet and some edges sharpen. I imagine it working exactly like the current smooth edge tool, except you would be able to Bevel an edge, Fillet an edge, or Sharpen an edge.
     
     
    This pictures below illustrates how the tool would effect the edge. This is the current smooth tool.
               
     
     
    Additional Ideas
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Scale Axes
    I think this is a simple, but vary important option that needs to be available. Basically we have the option to scale the size of voxel primitives, but we should also have the option to scale voxel primitives on a specific axis (X, Y, Z). This I think would definitely add greater control to create the desired shapes, as well as enhance the freedom of creativity.
     
    Hollow Primitives
    So, this thought came to me last minute, but I think its something that shouldn't be overlooked. The ability to start with hollow voxel primitives. Either a voxel brush option to deploy hollow voxels, or solid, and set the wall thickness, or have hollow voxel shapes as a standard starting shape to choose from. I know that there is an option to cut out voxels using primitives shapes, but the main issue is that cutting out voxels gives a very ugly looking result, most times the edges don't look right at all, or you need a hard edge but the cut out has a rounded edge with a messy texture. Also, hollow primitive shapes would improve the speed, and ease of use when building constructs. Especially when working with curved shapes. Trying to hollow out a curved shape would be a nightmare, so starting with a hollow shape would be great.
     
    Voxel Elements
    So my last suggestion is in regard to Voxel Elements. Novaquark mention in this DevBlog that will have a Library of detail, or complex voxel shapes that players could use in their constructs. They mentioned a spiral staircase as an example. Well, here are a few shapes that I think should be included in that database of Voxel Elements.

    Pictures of suggested Voxel Elements to add to the Voxel Library.

     

    I know that a voxel point cloud editing system is in development, list on trello Here. That will really open up lots of possibilities for builders. But, in addition to that, having a variety of voxel brush shapes to start with is still needed to give builders alternative options, because sometimes doing things one way just may not work out how you need it to, so having other ways to create shapes is a big help.
     
    I think that covers the general ideas I had. My overall goal is to see more spaceships and constructs that aren't just limited to boxed shapes, and enable creative builders to really unleash their imagination. An I feel adding additional shapes to the Voxel Brush tool would be a good way to accomplish that goal. Please feel free to give feedback in the comments.

    Thanks for reading, see you in the next thread.
     
     
  3. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from Emptiness in Need for more Voxel Brush shapes, and options.   
    Disclaimer: All ideas are based on the publicly available info, not under NDA.

    Hello, so one of my biggest concerns with the voxel building tools so far, is the lack of support for curved shapes. I really think it would be sad to see an amazing game like this, filled with only Minecraft Box spaceships. Because curved shapes are so impossible to make. So here are a few basic additions I think could really improve on the current voxel building system. I know, more advanced voxel editing are planned like being able to edit control points, and a Voxel Element Library for more complex shapes. But, there are other, more simple things I think that can be done to get curved shapes into the game sooner rather then later. So, the basic idea is to make curved voxel shapes easily available so players would be encouraged to build none box shaped ships and constructs. I did some artwork to help illustrate my ideas. Please feel free to discuss and give feedback on this thread in the comments. Ok, So lets dive right into it.
     
     
    These pictures are examples of designs that can be made with these shapes.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
     
    Starting Primitives
    So, there are several shapes to begin with when using the voxel deploy tool. Here are some important primitives I suggest should be added as voxel brush shapes. Those shapes are Oblate Sphere, Prolate Sphere, Cone, Torus, Elbow Joint.

    Why these shapes?
    The reason I chose these shapes is because they are nearly impossible to make with with the current tools. An even with advanced editing options, they would still be difficult to get right. So it seems like a no-brainer to have these shapes as starting primitives for the voxel brush. It would make it much easier to start creating curved shaped constructs, and encourage more creative designs.
     
    This picture is of the voxel shapes I think should be added to the voxel brush tool.

     
     
    Voxel Shape Options
    So the next thing is an a expansion on the voxel shapes, by adding parameters before/after the shapes is deployed. For example, having an option like size, and diameter of the TORUS shape before/after you deploy it, or option to set how extreme the elongation is on the SPHERE or CONE before/after you deploy it, and even maybe set the angle of the Elbow joint. So, the way I imagine it would work is, when you select a starting primitive shape, shortcuts like arrow keys, numbers keys are used to set the value of the shape options, then you can deploy it as normal. Also, having an option box that would stay on screen as long as you're using that shape could work too, so that you can continue to change options and deploy new shapes.

    This pictures give an example of what changing the options would look like on each shape.
              
     
     
    Bevel, Fillet, sharpen edge tool
    So, we currently have a tool that allows builder to smooth edges, but to expand on that idea, I think we should also have the option to Bevel, Fillet, or sharpen edges as needs. The issue is that most times the smooth tool does not give the desired result, or maybe you only want to bevel an edge but not smooth it, or maybe you want some edges with a fillet and some edges sharpen. I imagine it working exactly like the current smooth edge tool, except you would be able to Bevel an edge, Fillet an edge, or Sharpen an edge.
     
     
    This pictures below illustrates how the tool would effect the edge. This is the current smooth tool.
               
     
     
    Additional Ideas
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Scale Axes
    I think this is a simple, but vary important option that needs to be available. Basically we have the option to scale the size of voxel primitives, but we should also have the option to scale voxel primitives on a specific axis (X, Y, Z). This I think would definitely add greater control to create the desired shapes, as well as enhance the freedom of creativity.
     
    Hollow Primitives
    So, this thought came to me last minute, but I think its something that shouldn't be overlooked. The ability to start with hollow voxel primitives. Either a voxel brush option to deploy hollow voxels, or solid, and set the wall thickness, or have hollow voxel shapes as a standard starting shape to choose from. I know that there is an option to cut out voxels using primitives shapes, but the main issue is that cutting out voxels gives a very ugly looking result, most times the edges don't look right at all, or you need a hard edge but the cut out has a rounded edge with a messy texture. Also, hollow primitive shapes would improve the speed, and ease of use when building constructs. Especially when working with curved shapes. Trying to hollow out a curved shape would be a nightmare, so starting with a hollow shape would be great.
     
    Voxel Elements
    So my last suggestion is in regard to Voxel Elements. Novaquark mention in this DevBlog that will have a Library of detail, or complex voxel shapes that players could use in their constructs. They mentioned a spiral staircase as an example. Well, here are a few shapes that I think should be included in that database of Voxel Elements.

    Pictures of suggested Voxel Elements to add to the Voxel Library.

     

    I know that a voxel point cloud editing system is in development, list on trello Here. That will really open up lots of possibilities for builders. But, in addition to that, having a variety of voxel brush shapes to start with is still needed to give builders alternative options, because sometimes doing things one way just may not work out how you need it to, so having other ways to create shapes is a big help.
     
    I think that covers the general ideas I had. My overall goal is to see more spaceships and constructs that aren't just limited to boxed shapes, and enable creative builders to really unleash their imagination. An I feel adding additional shapes to the Voxel Brush tool would be a good way to accomplish that goal. Please feel free to give feedback in the comments.

    Thanks for reading, see you in the next thread.
     
     
  4. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from Microwave in Let's talk DU quits   
    I literally wrote a detailed forum post over a year ago saying the exact same thing. So, I completely agree with this point, I wish someone a novaquark would at least take the time to read it, and read the comments suggestions by other people in that thread.
     
    Here:
     
     
  5. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from [BOO] Sylva in Let's talk DU quits   
    I literally wrote a detailed forum post over a year ago saying the exact same thing. So, I completely agree with this point, I wish someone a novaquark would at least take the time to read it, and read the comments suggestions by other people in that thread.
     
    Here:
     
     
  6. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in Let's talk DU quits   
    This is a big part of what is happening and it's not new as us backers know all to well. And no disrespect to fresh blood bringing an attempt to get this fixed but if the core of the  company does not change it's trajectory it will not have the effect we may all want to see.
     
    The latest example is the changes to the forum but it is a trend throughout, NQ comes out with " here's what we are looking at, what do you think" while in fact the call is already made. Then when community members bring up arguments against or to improve these actions it's pointless as the action is already set in motion. NQ does not engage in discussion with the community at all ,they do not talk with/include us in any way. The just talk at us and do what they intended to do anyway if it's not already done.
     
    So many just do not bother any more and others just gave up and left. NQ seems to be oblivious to this and just keeps going in the same way they have for over three years now. It's just somewhat painful to see some who frantically and sometimes passionately opposed me and others bringing this up early on now pretty much coming out and voicing the exact same concerns and being disillusioned because NQ is not  listening at all and seems to just not care.  Frankly there is still time to fix this but NQ will need to make some tough and possibly painful choices (and do that quickly) to right the ship and be able to bring what is such a fantastic vision and concept to and over the finish line.
     
  7. Like
    Supermega got a reaction from NQ-Naunet in Let's talk DU quits   
    I literally wrote a detailed forum post over a year ago saying the exact same thing. So, I completely agree with this point, I wish someone a novaquark would at least take the time to read it, and read the comments suggestions by other people in that thread.
     
    Here:
     
     
  8. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in Let's talk DU quits   
    The game has an extremely high initial bump which, combined with the very rough state of the game's development and rushed move into open and paid "beta" makes it hard to get into. Much of what is missing or what is not working well has been brought up and discussed long before beta started. NQ has never acknowledged any of this and has never shown any indication of being able or willing to adjust their development plans to accommodate this.
     
    Most of the game is very much still in Alpha state, if not pre-alpha. When a "major overhaul of the UI" is announced, what basically happens is a reskin of it. The core UI is very basic and not suitable for several of the intended uses cases, most obviously the talent system. It does not appear there is any central management of the project and it appears "coding" devs are tasked with designing the UI and UX which leads to too much information and overly complex actions with too many clicks and important detail 2 or three levels down where they should be at the surface. The general UI design really has not changed at all, except for a different theme, since pre-alpha.
     
    It's not helpful when, from the occasional communication, NQ paints a picture which wants to tell a story of "everything is great, we're pretty much on track and where we need to be" when the facts in front of us show that that is not the case.  And now we hear JC pretty much roll back core promises and vision for the game where "unlimited possibilities" have now become "we will limit what you can do to preserve performance". The amount of work NQ has set up for themselves combined wit he mountain of work that needs to be done to clear technical debt and core issues in the game should be a guide in understanding that it is not possible to get to the state NQ claims the game will be in a year when they intend to "release". The stubborn attitude of not wanting to move the roadmap out and by now plain unrealistic expectation being set by NQ is just not good and will make (new) players tag off and disengage.
     
    I get that much of this will probably be due to the fact that NQ is not in a very good situation financially and needs to work on a very tight and limited budget, but it's hurting the game's progress quite obviously. The amount of work needed to be done to work around the roadblock of "no wipe until absolutely required" for the sake of keeping people subbed is causing ore pain than NQ is letting on. Th underlying tone of NQ having pretty much beg for players to get back to the game or fill out a survey where NQ should and probably does know very well what the pain points are is rather obviously  a PR stunt more than anything else.
     
    From podcasts it seems that NQ in general overthinks what we, as the community brings up in the rarae cases there is a response, which is generally only happening on an ad hoc basis when confronted with a live question, and the "solutions" are often overly complex and in effect miss the mark as far as addressing the intended problem. IN general, NQ seems hellbent on reinventing the wheel over and over while solutions are often readily available.
     
    An example is the call for better building tools, NQ will mostly translate this into "we want a vertex editor" and then go into detail on how difficult that is and how much resources it takes. What we actually need is more options to build without resorting to voxelmancy.. More brush options like slopes broken into two voxels, corner pieces and things like that. Making smooth and beautiful ships using voxeltech is great and some designs are amazing but there is no middle ground here between that and basic blocks/boxes. Why can't we have basic shapes like the ones we see in (or instance) Space Engineers? Why is there no single voxel size tetrahedron making it possible to make corners. here's basic block which IMO should be readily available in game (old SE source but valid here)..


     
     
     
    The "general" public is not looking for a vertex editor, they just want/need more variation in basic blocks and would be perfectly happy with these. The argument "use a voxel library" pretty much rolls back to my earlier comment about NQ (and a good number of experienced players) not seeing the issue of  this being to complex for an entry level player.
     
    What we need is:
    In build mode, select voxel placement tool press E to cycle though basic shapes press-hold E to bring up either a radial menu, use scroll wheel to cycle through all available blocks or the option to "click and pick" from a more varied choice of block "brushes"  
    Another example is power management. It has been discussed with some good suggestions provided since Alpha but NQ never acknowledged any of it or engaged with us on these ideas.
     
    Then, while it's unfortunately a meme by now, the question is a valid one, where is the canopy glass? Why has NQ not ever acknowledged this and why is this element on display in game but not available to players? It is another simple option to make designs easier to make "pretty".
     
     
    Lastly, it is _very_ disappointing and a tell tale sign of how NQ thinks that the NDA forum section has been archived and is no longer accessible. It means a wealth of information and content which could be reused in beta is now lost. Arguments to maintain access to these clearly, and frankly expectedly, fell on deaf ears as NQ does what NQ does regardless of what we, as a community think. Why make a post in the tone of an invite to discussion when you really just make an announcement?
     
    If you, as NQ, intent to do things your way anyway, why pretend to care enough to ask for our input/feedback. I know this post will no doubt trigger the fanbois in the community once more but he fact I get quite a few messages from community members when I make posts like this saying how they agree tells me I'm not wrong. What we're seeing now is pretty much what happened when Naerais joined and it lasted for maybe a month or two before NQ fell right back to being their usual self. I hope I am wrong and this time NQ will move in a different direction but I reserve the right to expect they won't and it's just a temp  band-aid before it's back to business as usual. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though, we'll see.
  9. Like
    Supermega reacted to michaelk in Let's talk DU quits   
    As others have said, tech issues and tedium (lack of content) are big deals...but I think some users aren't even playing long enough to be bothered by lack of content. 
     
    Following DU for years, I tried to get my partner hooked on the game because he loves building games and will spend hours and hours constructing monuments to OCD. ?‍♂️
     
    For him, it was presentation and initial UX. 
     
    1. Initial impressions are really important...the tutorial was not a great first experience. It bugged out and required him to reset and he got annoyed navigating the starter area and listening to the voice over.
     
    2. Initial UX...The UI simply doesn't look like it belongs in a professional game -- it creates a perception that the game is very "indie", as the UI was clearly made by engineers and not designers. It also makes it harder to learn the game -- clunky UI/UX on top of an already complex game. 
     
    3. Initial speeder...when he finally got to Sanctuary (I had to help him find the drop ship because of all the market clutter ?) that first speeder visit to unclaimed territory was...not great. The visuals greatly reinforced the idea that this was a niche/indie project and not a "real game". I got him one of the starter flying ships, but still a lot of travel time to get back to his hex because he re-spawned at some point (for some reason ?‍♂️). 
     
    4. Initial progression...breaking surface rocks and being told to go back and forth to the (rather far) market didn't help him understand what to do or how to get starting building, especially since the tutorials were very broken back when he started. I tried to help him get started mining but he basically quit after digging a hundred or so meters lol. Mining rocks is monotonous enough without digging through hundreds of meters of flat polygons.  
     
    I'd bet a healthy number of those ghost speeders belong to similar players that never truly gave the game a chance because it simply doesn't feel like a professional, modern game should for a paid monthly sub.
     
    It is hard to reconcile the promise of a vast space sandbox builder where you can craft and manipulate civilization itself with tutorials not working, simple visuals, and a clunky UX...and all this is just to give the game a chance...never mind some of the content/tech issues that are usually only relevant after you've bought into the premise and played for a bit. 
  10. Like
    Supermega reacted to Mordgier in Let's talk DU quits   
    The issue is the game is at least 90% tedium no matter what 'path' you pick.
     
    Industry?  90% tedium of fighting the lag of the link tool or the random breakdowns where some random element simply stops working. 
     
    Mining? - mining is 100% tedious.
     
    Pvp? 90% waiting around.
     
    Ship Design? Voxelmancy is 100% tedium.
     
    Trading? 90% tedium of flying around from A to B.
     
    And the lessons haven't been learned.....
     
    NQ adds 'wrecks' which are also 90% tedium of flying around looking for them....
  11. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in The problems with Planned updates and how they will kill PvP   
    OP's suggestions are based on the assumption that PVP is a central mechanic which is a goal to achieve and a means to make a living in game or "pay for itself". I'd say that assumption is actually incorrect and while it is obviously perfectly fine and absolutely acceptabel to choose the life of a pirate or bandit in game, this doe snot mean NQ must amend their plan/vision to accommodate that. For the game to "work" elements need to get destroyed and not be indefinitely repairable.
     
    I'd expect a docked ship to not be able to actually engage in PVP while being docked, and so you would need to both fly it and as you refer to M code I'd expect you would need several players per ship to use it effectively. I'd say that this level of co-operation and co-ordination is pretty much what the game is about and so I do not see the problem.
     
    Also, have you seen an L core  and how do you see a design which would have a S core cross section on an L core ship? Also as above, you can't benefit from having M core ships docked so you'd be a sitting duck if the L core is not weaponized and operated by a group of players.
     
    Lastly, while energy management was mentioned, I did not hear anything about that coming in with the December patch, it is something planned to come March 2021 at the earliest. We also have no information at all on how that will actually work so any assumptions like you make are at best speculative.
     
    It all sounds like what you see as an issue is not actually there as there is way to much unknown to even make the assumptions you do.
     
     
  12. Like
    Supermega reacted to XKentX in JC - This game is not Ready Player One....   
    Like WTF are you talking about.
     
    Like some challenge, someone solving something ?
     
    Should I like watch 10 discord channels 20 youtube channels and be subscribed to 30 twichers(or whatever) to be updated to what's happening in 1 game that I play ?
     
    I didn't even know that there was some challenge.
     
    You say they handed something to some org ? I say they just created private content because most people have lives and don't follow 100500 different game related bullshit videos to get info on how to play it.
  13. Like
    Supermega reacted to michaelk in Stop calling combat "PvP" pt. 2   
    I get it, but my perspective is that this ship has sailed a long time ago. 
     
    I think the "division" in the community exists because the vision for this game is so ambiguous and poorly articulated and the state of production is so rough.
     
    If everyone was having such fun with the game as it exists today, it wouldn't feel like a division...but because the promise and potential of the game are so mismatched with its implementation today, there's a lot of angst and commentary about what needs to be "fixed" to make it complete. 
     
    I guess my point is that NQ created this problem by launching such an incomplete project as a "beta" then pitching it as the end-all game for every space nerd's niche whims. 
     
    I think a lot of people really, really want to believe in that promise and would rather blame each other than developer NQ...as soon as you recognize that NQ really doesn't have a plan, you're basically giving up that this game will become the promising civilization it was pitched as. 
     
    There's still a lot of time for NQ to change directions -- until then, I agree that the player base needs to be patient with each other, but also understand that these discussions are inevitable...not because they are being pointlessly divisive, but because the incomplete and unknown state of the game's design invites speculation, discussion, and strong opinions...especially because many players feel so strongly about DU's potential and vision.  
     
    The thing that would fix a lot of these issues is real leadership from the dev responsible for designing the game instead of big fat question marks whenever someone asks about how their game will work...I hope that players can be united enough to push NQ to do its job more professionally.  
  14. Like
    Supermega reacted to michaelk in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    I sympathize -- and sometimes wonder why PvPers still have enough patience for this game. 
     
    People have talked about NQ's mountain of technical debt before, but I wonder about this a lot.
     
    Even if they wanted to work on PvP exclusively for the next year straight, I wonder if they'd be able to accomplish much. How many outstanding issues would they need to fix before they can make progress on PvP features...? 
     
    Even with a year, they'd probably make some really bad choices because NQ doesn't really care about game design as a discipline -- they prefer the "use JC's intuition then fix it" model. This...isn't so great for game dev. 
     
    If every player on this forum (which NQ doesn't read lol) banded together to push NQ to move PvP forward, I bet it'd just be business as usual for NQ...especially if they have so much tech debt that they can't make progress on any content in general which seems to be the case. And when they do finally drop a PvP feature...? It'd probably be a buggy, poorly balanced compromise that pleases no one. 
     
    I wouldn't be that surprised if PvP remains "as-is" for a long, long while because of their ever-growing technical debt. When you have a bunch of tech debt, the last thing you want to do is start touching a feature that you have no confidence about -- and its really clear that NQ has no confidence in their understanding of PvP (or hell, player interaction in general).
     
    Personally, I don't think PvP will ever really "work" in DU -- it just isn't remotely thought out, even today...I'd be really shocked if NQ manages to improvise their way into a well considered well balanced version of PvP. If they do pull that off, it'll take a long, long time and a lot of painful trial and error. 
     
    TLDR: I don't believe NQ has the design or technical experience to create a good PvP experience...not without a ton of iterations they can't afford. 
  15. Like
    Supermega reacted to michaelk in what kind of stupid society....   
    Meh, mining does suck. I don't think it's difficult, but it is boring. For how monotonous it is, the concept isn't very clear to new players.
     
    It isn't like the OP gave up immediately because they want "instant gratification", they tried until they got frustrated...regardless, they aren't the first person to complain about mining -- and complaining about this bad system doesn't somehow mean you are demanding instant gratification. 
     
    Big difference between something being hard because it's difficult and something being hard because it is brain-numbingly monotonous... 
  16. Like
    Supermega reacted to CptLoRes in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    The problem with 'carebear' is that it is a derogatory term, and forcing people to PvP is just as disrespectful if not more so.
  17. Like
    Supermega reacted to Jinxed in Incoming pvp changes   
    That is my impression... I believe that beyond flight and interaction physics, voxels and inventory and progressing server backend technology, they have not started on any of the higher level societal structure (beyond RDMS) or overarching strategic gameplay.

    It really still feels like early alpha, and the only reason it feels playable at all is more due to its sandbox nature than the level of development gone into it.

    Elite Dangerous alpha was pretty playable. The game had exemplary physics, a working Stellar Forge, NPCs were implemented (though weak), trading worked, proto missions were available (sadly, some of those exact same missions are still available to this day), equipment classes and grades, the basics of a crime and punishment system... And a sense of progression... From ship to ship all the way to the mighty Anaconda, or Jump to Jump to the centre of the galaxy, far rim, nearest nebula, etc...

    I don't want to compare the two games directly but rather contrast the states of development they were both in during their respective alpha periods.

     The elite "premium" beta came out, plus a final beta and then a conformational "gamma" was released during which very little added. Bugs were squashed, values were tweaked, assets were improved but the game was recognisable.

    This game has so many things left to implement before it's even concept complete, let alone feature complete. So I don't expect critical details to be implemented or even decided yet, TBH.
  18. Like
    Supermega reacted to Teufelaffe in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    Wut.
     
    The safe zone may be where most of the players are, but it's a pretty small portion of the game "world".  And it will become even smaller if they start adding more star systems.
     
    As for the whole "we should get rid of the safe zone" argument that folks are making, they're looking at this extremely short-sightedly.  NQ should absolutely keep the existing safe zone.  This not only ensures that new players can get a good foundation for the game, it ensures that there's actually an economy in place, because I'm pretty sure that all of the, "OMG, I just wanna blow people up!!!" crowd is not going to be contributing to anything other than the ammunition trade.  On top of that, as time goes on and NQ adds more systems, the fact that three planets and a few moons are a safe zone will become less and less relevant in regard to PvP.  As long as NQ puts something worth going to other systems for, the "I'm only happy if what I do makes someone else sad" crew can get all the PvP shenanigans they want and we get a functional economy.
     
    If NQ gets rid of the safe zone, DU *WILL* lose far more players than would ever join specifically for that feature.  Despite what the PvP-obsessives tell themselves, there is almost no demand for MMOs with unrestricted PvP.  Or did y'all think it was a strange coincidence that MMOs with unrestricted PvP* rarely last more than a year?
     
    If you still want to be playing DU a year or more from now, you'll want them to keep the safe zone in place indefinitely.
     
    *No, EVE does not count as an unrestricted PvP MMO.  If a game has an NPC faction dedicated to blowing your ass up if you start stuff in the wrong system(s), it's not unrestricted.
  19. Like
    Supermega reacted to NoRezervationz in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    I'm gonna throw out my .02 USD.
     
    If you want a more polished PvP-centric gaming experience right now, go play Eve or Elite Dangerous. PvP isn't ready in DU.
     
    STOP complaining about "carebears." Seriously. NQ wants a player driven economy, and those "carebears" will be supporting it and the war efforts so that PvPer's can kill each other. It's exactly what happens in Eve, even though there are those who would destroy all PvEer's for the sake of it (and destroy the economy along with them too, though they'll never admit it).
     
    Just deal with it for now. I imagine that once there is more game content (meaning missions and other reasons to leave the "bubble") you'll get your PvP. I don't understand why some "PvPer's" want to target barely armed noobs and call it PvP. I just don't get it. But until then, deal with the fact that it's an unfinished and unoptimized game, barely out of Alpha, that's concentrating on basic building.
  20. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in Incoming pvp changes   
    Silly idea, a small object should be less easy to lock, regardless of radar size. The radar size should maybe increase the lock chance/time, have a longer lock range and in return require more power (once introduced). You also mentioned just now that they said that this depends on both having the same radar.. How woudl the size of my radar affect your ability to lock me.. That is such sideways thinking..
     
    Artificial balance idea unless the lock chance actually changes if the relative position and orientation is taken into account by this.
     
     
    Another short sighted and knee jerk "solution"
     
    Cores should have a power capacity, weapons/shields/engines/radar/countermeasures should require power. You can fit whatever as long as it stays within the power capacity of the core. You fit large weapons, no or minimal shields or only a small radar operating a limited capacity so you need to get close which opens you up to attack. You may be able to add power by adding batteries but they have limited use and will impact mass and agility with it.
     
     
    Once more, NQ shows their inability to be creative and really come up with good ideas as well as being oblivious to anything the community may discuss suggest. If these things are al they can come up with after nearly a year since they introduces PVP.. I don't know but it's meager at best..
     
     
    EDIT: Posted update on this further down after hearing what was actually said and frankly, it's not that bad and actually pretty decent as far as ideas go.
     
     
  21. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    And this is where any validity of anything you say next is removed..
  22. Like
    Supermega reacted to michaelk in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    Stop blaming other players for the fact that NQ hasn't designed their game yet.
     
    It is up to NQ to make good decisions, and I'm sick of people just deflecting blame onto a group of players they have a personal issue with. 
     
    If you want to blame someone for "ruining" the game, blame NQ for putting virtually no thought into the design details of this game. The balance between building and PvP obviously needed careful consideration. Don't blame "carebears" for their utter lack of foresight. It's funny how NQ listens to no one ever....but when they make decisions you don't like, it's somehow the carebears' fault? 
     
    Stop it with all the deflection and bashing "nerdlings" -- it's completely childish and devoid of any shred of logic. How about you hold the party solely responsible for making decisions responsible for their own decisions like adults instead of throwing tantrums blaming other consumers that have paid their fair share to enjoy the game...? 
  23. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    The questions I have are:
     
    Why are "PVP oriented players" so focused on being able to target those who have no counter/recourse? Are you looking for kills more than fight maybe?
     
    Why is it that on a good number of occasions, a ship approaching me on an intercept course would turn tail and run as soon as I start moving in their general direction instead of staying on my intended heading? Are you afraid to actually encounter a fight maybe?
     
     
    It's been well established by now that, while they may be the loudest, The player base looking for pewpew is in fact the minority. Not meant in a bad way but it is.
    It appears to me that based on what many of these complain about, if the creatives and non combatant players would leave, there is nothing left for these players to do or shoot at.
     
    The notion of fleets and escorts in game is not viable as there is n way for a fleet to move as a unit. Also If there were to be escorts, this would in effect do the same as using warp as you would not be interested in engaging due to the fact you may actually lose a fight and you are more interested in the kill.
     
     
    Non combatant players right now choose the expensive route of Warp drives because there are no counters in the game to avoid being shot at. There is no deflection, jamming, stealth, decoys, flares, chaff. Saying "just bring friend and load guns" is not a viable options as this means losing room for cargo and generally being less cost effective than adding  a Warp Drive in the first place. And again, many "PVP players" would actually not engage if they find they may actually draw the short straw in a fight.
     
    DU is not, and was never designed to be, a combat centric game. It plays a role in the game for sure, and is important as a pillar of the game, but it is not what the game is all about and anyone who has the expectation is is, should be or will be choose the wrong game to play.
     
    Territory Warfare will favor the defenders versus the attackers, yes. I have no doubt NQ will implement EVE style mechanics which will prevent offline base raiding and allow for time zone co-ordination when getting into fights.
     
     
    All that said, and while I personally have no interest in combat at all, I do agree that the choice to now let the existing Alioth/Madis/Thades safezone triangle in place is not good for the game and effectively creates a game within a game. It creates a whole set of new problems which I fear NQ has not considered yet and is a massive surrender of their initial vision for the game towards the creative part of the community, I think because they do not really know how to otherwise safeguard this group remaining in game. What may play into this is that NQ knows that this group is both bigger, gives them more exposure and may well be inclined to spend more money in the coming cosmetics cash shop than the PVP oriented player base which from a business POV does make sense.
     
  24. Like
    Supermega reacted to CptLoRes in Permanent Bubble? They nuts?   
    Sorry to break it to you all, but DU is fundamentally made to be a building game more then it is a PvP game.
    And the problem with building vs destroying is that when it takes 5 minutes to destroy months of work, builders leave the game.
  25. Like
    Supermega reacted to blazemonger in This game is too easy. Some Thoughts and concerns.   
    Too many loud voices are way too attached to their riches, many of which were obtained using unbalanced game options and mechanics which in the process destroyed a good portion of the games ability to facilitate it's development. Not saying ppl exploited anything here, but NQ made some bad choices, were told they were bad choices and went ahead anyway and then found they made some bad choices  

    Combine this with their focus on revenue and as a result sacrificing their ability to actually balance and restructure as needed (including wipes which are absolutely normal and part of game development at this stage) and you have a recipe for a hollowed out game only a few weeks into it's beta soft launch.
     
    A wipe, once important balance passes are in the game,  where we keep our blueprints and see accrued talent points returned to the pool for a respec would be good for the game, it will weed out some of the debris and some of the abandoned structures. It will potentially weed out some who focus more on being able to say they "own all this" and not really partake in the game and at at the same time create an opportunity for NQ to push the game to new players coming in on the subjective idea of an "even playing field" (which is really not a thing but too many think it is so why not make use of that sentiment and gain more revenue through it).

    It wil certainly draw some tears form big orgs who invested a lot of time in their infrastructure but those wil bounce back even when they may do a lot of crying about it in the process. NQ setting up a "no wipe unless we really have to" expectation was a mistake but at the same time I really feel that, once the balance passes are done, it very much defendable that they "have to" wipe in order for these passes to take proper effect (which is what I do expect will eventually happen)..
     
     
    Regarding Talents, there are a lot of talents now which really do not have any effective use. I'd agree it would be good to have certain items locked behind talents and then consecutive levels increase the effectiveness of those elements..

    For instance, for Territory Scanner:
    "Scanning Calibration" - will increase the range at which you can detect ore, increasing 20% each level where Level 5 also unlocks;
    "Territory Scanner Calibration" - Unlock Territory Scanner and reduce scan time by 15% each level, level 4 will also unlock;
    "Multi Scan Operation" -  Allow for one extra scanner to be operated simultaneously and remotely per level within a total of 7 scanners at L5 allowing a player to scan a tile and it's surrounding tiles with one scan action (3,4,5,6,7 respectively)

    And for Warp drives:
    "Space Engine Calibration" - increase ability to calibrate and optimize space engine speed with 20% per level, ending at 30K for level5 which also unlocks;
    "Warp Drive Calibration" -  unlocks Warp Drives and increase ability to calibrate Warp drives before jumping by 15% each level, level 4 will also unlock;
    "Warp Cell Efficiency" -  Decrease number of warp cells required to travel by 15% per level
     
    NQ pretty much copied the EVE skill system but forgot to understand how that system is really a rather smart chain of skills which provides a logical and sensible progress for players as they get deeper in the game, unlocking abilities as they go and as the player's experience will allow him/her to use such skill effectively. I'd also really like to see NQ introduce skill books like  EVE has as it will remove a lot of clutter when skills for which books are not available can easily be filtered out.

    Skill books also actually create roles within organizations where you'd have players tasked with keeping org books in stock and distributed as needed.
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