Kirtis

All what you said is true with but one "but": it must be implemented in DU and it should work as intended...
 
 For the time being the "dead" EvE has thousands of players that are logging into it each day, play it and are pretty much alive  and DU is a lot of fantasies, a bit of promises from developer and a wagon of speculations 
 
it may happen that even 25v25 will be impossible due to various reasons or we can see 25 000 v 25 000 batles and it will work out somehow though it did not work in other games - but may be NQ are really that good and they'll make revolution in game industry. We can only speculate, guess and argue now and none of this can be proven yet. Not until the game will be ready for a full load like open beta at least.
 
Eventually people have different expectations and goals in game. For example I don't care if there will be 5v5 or 500v500 fights. Those huge battles might be interesting to participate once or even see a video report from safe distance. But they are not the thing that "makes my watch tick". I am more interested if I'll be able to walk in a city without lag when there'll be multiple constructs and several players online... will I be able to to fly around a big space station or a fleet of them and some smaller spaceships without having lags and loosing control of my ship... will I be able to do things that are interesting to me without facing bugs, lag and so on.... Others might be interested in other thing and all in all the game success will depend on how many people will see something in this game that will attract them and how good those functions will really work.

Hiding in your proud self confidence (which you most probably did not much to earn, just have been born in better environment) you don't even try to read what is written. I did not write about human rights and did not say, that someone should play game, which is commercial product without paying. All I wrote was that sometimes these few dollars or euros, which you (and me) are trowing out without care, are being earned way harder by others and they don't want to pay full price if they don't have time to play the game a lot because they are " improving their situation, not wasting time in some VR". If you are so confident in yourself, try to buy a ticket to some Eastern Europe country and see by yourself what these people do for 300 euros - I bet you have never ever worked in you life that well and that hard. And when you'll be there, see that, try to teach them how to "improve" . And there are whole areas where these 300 per month are the top of "improving" as most of their neighbors don't have job at all. But if they would have an option to pay a decent fee for the time they have to spend in game, they might consider that option and that would bring additional funds to game developer - otherwise these funds won't reach him at all.
 
I know it because my father, retired man, lives in one of such small towns and knows locals, knows how hard they try to "improve", but often my father, ends up helping them though he's retired and gets only retirement pension. And this is not the worst country regarding level of the life. There are places even worse than that.
 
And once again - this is not about "have a pity on these poor people and give them game for free" - they don't want your pity - they just count their money bit more than me and you do... and they want to pay the price according to the time spent in game. 

"Emergent gameplay" generated by AI will never ever get even close to what emerges in contact with a real person. And even if that person has less time to spend in game than me I would never neglect his potential to have an impact on community and me. There are some conversations with people that happened in games years ago... we met once and never spoke again... but either they said something interesting, or we did some extremely fun things... and I still remember it now. Who knows how long did they play... who cares... all that matters is that their presence made an impact on me... and sometimes (I'd even say... often) you don't need much time for that. Even stupid actions of some players might become a legend - mind a "LEEROY JENKINS" from WoW - who knows if that guy ever played anything after his infamous adventure in a virtual dungeon. But these few minutes recorded years ago became "something". Some players don't even know where all this came from, but they'll understand what you mean if you'll say "don't leeroy on that boss", or you'll get all your team in a good mood if you'll shout "LEEROY!!!" before attack 
 
Yes, I know how fun is to have a dedicated group of friends and play with them. But even the most dedicated and nice team will get dull and you'll get bored if you won't see new faces in a long time.
 
So no, I won't agree with you, wizardoftrash, noone is worth loosing and everyone is valuable - even those whom I don't like... and those who hate me are needed too 

I tried to write as simple as possible, but it seems that people just see what they want to see, not what's written...
 
I DO NOT SUGGEST TO GIVE GAME FOR FREE OR TO GIVE IT CHEEPER TO ANYONE.
 
All I say - it would be beneficial both for the developer and for the players to have an option to buy a subscription based on time they intend to spend in game.
 
What I see now is the same if you would come to a food store for the milk and you'd be given the only option - to buy a 200 liter barrel of milk. And if you'd say, that you need only 1 liter bottle, there comes a "smartie" and says: "if I would have money only for 1 liter of milk I would not drink milk, neither go to food store until I would afford to buy a barrel". Yes, guys, your arguments are that stupid.  It's not about afford or not afford... expensive or cheep... There are simply people who don't need full month subscription. They can afford it, but they count their money and they don't want to buy a barrel, when actually they need half of it or even 1/200... Or lets put it another way: they agree to pay for a 200 liter barrel, but they ask: " can I pay for all these 200 liters in advance, but let me come to you and take 1 liter or even 0.5 liter at a time of fresh milk, when I need it instead of taking all the barrel at once and throwing most of it out as it will get spoiled in few days (in one month as we talk about monthly subscription). Yes, you can get stubborn and say: "either full barrel at once or no milk for you", but in that case this person won't buy from you and everyone looses - you sold nothing and he got no milk...
 
And I am sure, that most players will be fine with monthly subscription even if they won't play a lot. There has been a case in my own life that I was playing subscription based game for a while and paying by credit card and then I moved to another project, but few months later I noticed that the old project kept charging my credit card monthly, though I did not play it. I noticed it only several months later and it wasn't a big deal for me. Yea, I could start arguing, and could prove that I did not use their product, I could require refund, but I just forgot it and moved on. But this is me - other people count their money  better that I do and they would not let such thing to happen. And these players, even if they'll be just a small fraction of all the player base, can still bring in some extra income to the project if they'll get heard and offered service on the terms acceptable for them.

Hiding in your proud self confidence (which you most probably did not much to earn, just have been born in better environment) you don't even try to read what is written. I did not write about human rights and did not say, that someone should play game, which is commercial product without paying. All I wrote was that sometimes these few dollars or euros, which you (and me) are trowing out without care, are being earned way harder by others and they don't want to pay full price if they don't have time to play the game a lot because they are " improving their situation, not wasting time in some VR". If you are so confident in yourself, try to buy a ticket to some Eastern Europe country and see by yourself what these people do for 300 euros - I bet you have never ever worked in you life that well and that hard. And when you'll be there, see that, try to teach them how to "improve" . And there are whole areas where these 300 per month are the top of "improving" as most of their neighbors don't have job at all. But if they would have an option to pay a decent fee for the time they have to spend in game, they might consider that option and that would bring additional funds to game developer - otherwise these funds won't reach him at all.
 
I know it because my father, retired man, lives in one of such small towns and knows locals, knows how hard they try to "improve", but often my father, ends up helping them though he's retired and gets only retirement pension. And this is not the worst country regarding level of the life. There are places even worse than that.
 
And once again - this is not about "have a pity on these poor people and give them game for free" - they don't want your pity - they just count their money bit more than me and you do... and they want to pay the price according to the time spent in game. 

If he/she is interested in DU and active on the forums, he is a member of the community regardless of whether he backed. All view points are important here, especially the skeptics'.

Hiding in your proud self confidence (which you most probably did not much to earn, just have been born in better environment) you don't even try to read what is written. I did not write about human rights and did not say, that someone should play game, which is commercial product without paying. All I wrote was that sometimes these few dollars or euros, which you (and me) are trowing out without care, are being earned way harder by others and they don't want to pay full price if they don't have time to play the game a lot because they are " improving their situation, not wasting time in some VR". If you are so confident in yourself, try to buy a ticket to some Eastern Europe country and see by yourself what these people do for 300 euros - I bet you have never ever worked in you life that well and that hard. And when you'll be there, see that, try to teach them how to "improve" . And there are whole areas where these 300 per month are the top of "improving" as most of their neighbors don't have job at all. But if they would have an option to pay a decent fee for the time they have to spend in game, they might consider that option and that would bring additional funds to game developer - otherwise these funds won't reach him at all.
 
I know it because my father, retired man, lives in one of such small towns and knows locals, knows how hard they try to "improve", but often my father, ends up helping them though he's retired and gets only retirement pension. And this is not the worst country regarding level of the life. There are places even worse than that.
 
And once again - this is not about "have a pity on these poor people and give them game for free" - they don't want your pity - they just count their money bit more than me and you do... and they want to pay the price according to the time spent in game. 

Hiding in your proud self confidence (which you most probably did not much to earn, just have been born in better environment) you don't even try to read what is written. I did not write about human rights and did not say, that someone should play game, which is commercial product without paying. All I wrote was that sometimes these few dollars or euros, which you (and me) are trowing out without care, are being earned way harder by others and they don't want to pay full price if they don't have time to play the game a lot because they are " improving their situation, not wasting time in some VR". If you are so confident in yourself, try to buy a ticket to some Eastern Europe country and see by yourself what these people do for 300 euros - I bet you have never ever worked in you life that well and that hard. And when you'll be there, see that, try to teach them how to "improve" . And there are whole areas where these 300 per month are the top of "improving" as most of their neighbors don't have job at all. But if they would have an option to pay a decent fee for the time they have to spend in game, they might consider that option and that would bring additional funds to game developer - otherwise these funds won't reach him at all.
 
I know it because my father, retired man, lives in one of such small towns and knows locals, knows how hard they try to "improve", but often my father, ends up helping them though he's retired and gets only retirement pension. And this is not the worst country regarding level of the life. There are places even worse than that.
 
And once again - this is not about "have a pity on these poor people and give them game for free" - they don't want your pity - they just count their money bit more than me and you do... and they want to pay the price according to the time spent in game. 

I think CaptainTwerkmotor didn't actually get the idea which was proposed by topic starter AKA Captain_Hilts as he wrote it in a bit strange way and decided that Captain_Hilts means to ask price of 60 $ for 2 months of game, when actualy Captain_Hilts means that person pays the same 10$, but gets limited game time which he can consume within longer period of time. So let me rephrase this the way it seems more "readable" for me:
 
Option 1. For $10 you get Unlimited hours .  1 month to use it until it expires. Totally you'll pay 10$x12 months = $120/yr (this is the baseline Novaquark has already announced)
 
Option 2. For $10 you get 300 hours of game (online) time. You have 2 month to spend those 300 hours, and they will expire after those 2 moths no matter if you played less than that.  Totally you'll pay 10$x6 installements(2 months each) = $60/yr. The maximum time you'll be able to spend in game for those money will be  1800hr/yr.
 
Option 3. For $10 you get 150 hours of game (online) time. You have 4 month to spend those 150 hours, and they will expire after those 4 moths no matter if you played less than that.  Totally you'll pay 10$x3 installements(4 months each) = $30/yr.   The maximum time you'll be able to spend in game for those money will be  450hr/yr
 
Option 4. For $10 you get 50hours of game (online) time. You have 6 month to spend those 50 hours, and they will expire after those 6 moths no matter if you played less than that.  Totally you'll pay 10$x2 installements(6 months each)  = $20/yr.    The maximum time you'll be able to spend in game for those money will be 100hr/yr
 
I understand those who say, that developer needs to pay for server maintenance 24/7. But when the players do not actually play (stay online) server is less loaded, community managers do not get additional (new petitions); and players who are actually playing during that time, get less lag, get their petitions resolved faster and generally get better service thus are more satisfied and eager to use the service. On other hand game developer is motivating additional customer to pay for their service - yes, he pays less, but still he pays 20$ though he would consider it not worth of paying if he could play only 100 hours per year and needed to pay full price of 120 $.
 
And people, please understand, that players are living all over the world, not only in USA or rich Western Europe. Therefore what seems irrelevant to you might be quite important to others. I know that some people in my country are working for as low as 300 euro per month and consider themselves lucky to have this job as there are no other options in small towns they live in. Well, they have option - to move to bigger cities, or even immigrate to your country and take away your job for twice ot three times lower salary than you would ever consider fair  which you won't be happy about I suppose . And with all the due respect to your achievements and great input in development of your local economy (which I honestly doubt is true for those who enjoy flexing out how much they waste on coffee and so on) these people often work harder, longer and in way less comfortable environment than you do, still they want to enjoy some games during their free time. They want it for a fair price. And I see nothing wrong if they will get limited access for a smaller fee. It is well known fact, that for example WoW is using different monetisation system in China, than it's in NA and Europe. Players pay per online game time there and everyone is happy - both players and localisators of the game.

Great answer Lord_Void and really exemplary behavior.
 
I want this game to succeed... I want it a lot actually. But honestly, I have seen a lot of great ideas generated by game developers and still those ideas either have not been implemented or there were not enough technical capabilities to implement them. I am not IT specialist, neither engineer and I can't judge if the plans of NQ are valid and achievable. Therefore I fully understand skepticism of topic starter - I am bit skeptic myself. But people like Lord_Void make me want this game to succeed even more as it would be pleasure to play the same game with such a nice person.
 
While people like vylqun make totally different, opposite impression. If you are irritated by people who know less than you, did not read all the dev. blogs/logs and so on... just avoid threads like this... that will be way more useful for them, game community and... yourself too. If you can't/don't want / don't know how to help these people, then don't do anything - others who want/know/like helping (like Lord_Void ) will do it without frustration and everything will be fine.

Great answer Lord_Void and really exemplary behavior.
 
I want this game to succeed... I want it a lot actually. But honestly, I have seen a lot of great ideas generated by game developers and still those ideas either have not been implemented or there were not enough technical capabilities to implement them. I am not IT specialist, neither engineer and I can't judge if the plans of NQ are valid and achievable. Therefore I fully understand skepticism of topic starter - I am bit skeptic myself. But people like Lord_Void make me want this game to succeed even more as it would be pleasure to play the same game with such a nice person.
 
While people like vylqun make totally different, opposite impression. If you are irritated by people who know less than you, did not read all the dev. blogs/logs and so on... just avoid threads like this... that will be way more useful for them, game community and... yourself too. If you can't/don't want / don't know how to help these people, then don't do anything - others who want/know/like helping (like Lord_Void ) will do it without frustration and everything will be fine.

Great answer Lord_Void and really exemplary behavior.
 
I want this game to succeed... I want it a lot actually. But honestly, I have seen a lot of great ideas generated by game developers and still those ideas either have not been implemented or there were not enough technical capabilities to implement them. I am not IT specialist, neither engineer and I can't judge if the plans of NQ are valid and achievable. Therefore I fully understand skepticism of topic starter - I am bit skeptic myself. But people like Lord_Void make me want this game to succeed even more as it would be pleasure to play the same game with such a nice person.
 
While people like vylqun make totally different, opposite impression. If you are irritated by people who know less than you, did not read all the dev. blogs/logs and so on... just avoid threads like this... that will be way more useful for them, game community and... yourself too. If you can't/don't want / don't know how to help these people, then don't do anything - others who want/know/like helping (like Lord_Void ) will do it without frustration and everything will be fine.

Great answer Lord_Void and really exemplary behavior.
 
I want this game to succeed... I want it a lot actually. But honestly, I have seen a lot of great ideas generated by game developers and still those ideas either have not been implemented or there were not enough technical capabilities to implement them. I am not IT specialist, neither engineer and I can't judge if the plans of NQ are valid and achievable. Therefore I fully understand skepticism of topic starter - I am bit skeptic myself. But people like Lord_Void make me want this game to succeed even more as it would be pleasure to play the same game with such a nice person.
 
While people like vylqun make totally different, opposite impression. If you are irritated by people who know less than you, did not read all the dev. blogs/logs and so on... just avoid threads like this... that will be way more useful for them, game community and... yourself too. If you can't/don't want / don't know how to help these people, then don't do anything - others who want/know/like helping (like Lord_Void ) will do it without frustration and everything will be fine.

For an accusation of an aggressive post, that is an awfully aggressive response. He asked a valid question, and it is our job to provide an answer.
 
@ZipSnipe, I understand your concerns. The truth is that there are two types of lag: Client side lag and Server side lag. Client side lag is usually an issue of the player's computer not being powerful enough to render everything that is happening on screen, or to calculate everything that needs to be calculated. The devs can address this by optimizing the graphics and code of the game as much as possible to reduce the strain of running it, but at the end of the day if this is the main source of lag the only option is to upgrade your PC. The other type of lag is server side lag, which involves either the server not being able to run everything it has to, or the communication between the server and the client not happening in an efficient manner. NQ's server technology is designed to tackle both of those issues. The server system dynamically partitions space onto different nodes of the server and prioritizes updates from closer nodes. This prevents any one node from getting overloaded and it also reduces the amount of updates that must be sent to the client. They detailed that in several of their dev diaries and dev blogs. 

Alright, job was not the correct word to use, I'll give you that. How about this: it is in our best interest to help provide answers to people with questions so that they will join our community and help it grow. Telling them they are lazy or unintelligent for not having read or watched every piece of information put out over the last two years is not only unproductive, it spawns a group of people who feel wronged by the community and will do their best to tell everyone else about their negative experience.
 
It may not have had a question mark, but there was essentially a question in it. Helping to answer that implied question not only addresses their concerns, but also encourages them to seek out more information. 
 
I'm not trying to tell how you can or can't respond, since I don't have that right. All I'm saying is that attacking someone for attacking someone/something is a bit hypocritical. 

I wasn't and I am not hostile, you can be absolutely sure of that   - I just stated that your information was wrong (totally).
 
Regarding your question about reactivation of subscription after absence from game there are different ways: first of course you can reactivate your account for real money and continue from where you have left it (by the way, the skills in game continue to train for about 4 days even after your account is frozen). Second option which I think will sound most interesting for you is that you can activate service called "hours for PLEX" which means that you will get 4 hours of free game enough to activate PLEX which you had reserved from earlier subscription period, or buy PLEX on the ingame market and then activate if you have enough ingame money, but forgot to buy it. And the last option is that any friend in game can donate PLEX for you and reactivate your account as a gift. So it's easy to restart game after some time of inactivity.
 
Other thing regarding earning ingame currency and buying PLEX for it - don't get overexcited over it. Although it is possible to earn PLEX during the trial time and never pay real cash for the game (I know players who did it), most probably you won't be able to have "14 day trial and have accumulated 5 PLEX" as you wrote. First because trial account is limited in which skills you can train (and you don't have many skills anyway), what types of ships you can fly and so on and it won't be easy for you as a newbro to start earning big money right on trial account. Still it's possible if you'll have some veteran player to assist you with know-how and if you'll do some homework and study information about the game (there's a lot of it  ). By the way, you can get special trial of 21 days if you'll get invited by veteran player. And if you'll find someone, who will be really kind, you can even get first PLEX for free as the person who have invited you to the game and you used him as referral to create a trial account will get one month of free game time once you pay first time for the game (either by cash or by PLEX). That's how I started my carrier in EvE - I got 21+30 days of free game time at the start.
 
Once again, I am not hostile and more than willing to give correct information about EvE. Fell free to ask if you want something else either in this thread or by private messages. I hope we'll be able to become friends and be able to enjoy together either EvE in the meanwhile or DU when it becomes available.
 
07 (that's how we great co-players in EvE  )

Information disclosed by developers of EvE online which is one of the most hardcore PvP games, with full destruction/loot upon kill and possibility of PvP all over the universe (including high security sectors, just with harsher consequences for attacker) showed that only 13,8 % of players (bit more,  than one in each ten) are involved in PvP during their ordinary game session (you can see the report http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png ) All other players do trade, PvE missions, exploration and so on, sometimes unintentionally getting caught by PvP as they are jumped by pirates. So we can assume that those who intentionally go for PvP are even less than 10 %. And you want to have even more PvP oriented game? Then it will be just pure shooter without any economy and any production/construction at all as noone will waste their time on other things if they’ll be jumped over from each corner and won’t have any security anywhere. And yes, player base will be limited to those 10-14 % who are interested in PvP – the rest will go for other games where they can do other things too.

Information disclosed by developers of EvE online which is one of the most hardcore PvP games, with full destruction/loot upon kill and possibility of PvP all over the universe (including high security sectors, just with harsher consequences for attacker) showed that only 13,8 % of players (bit more,  than one in each ten) are involved in PvP during their ordinary game session (you can see the report http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/activity.16.png ) All other players do trade, PvE missions, exploration and so on, sometimes unintentionally getting caught by PvP as they are jumped by pirates. So we can assume that those who intentionally go for PvP are even less than 10 %. And you want to have even more PvP oriented game? Then it will be just pure shooter without any economy and any production/construction at all as noone will waste their time on other things if they’ll be jumped over from each corner and won’t have any security anywhere. And yes, player base will be limited to those 10-14 % who are interested in PvP – the rest will go for other games where they can do other things too.

From what I have seen, developers of DU are pretty much inclined to use P2P + "PLEX" model and honestly that makes me very glad. This is great model and it works fine WHEN USED THE PROPER WAY. Now with the proper way... there start the complications. I know this system pretty well as I am active player of EvE Online since 2010 and I know how well it works. There are several myths that some people are trying to use in order to spook away those, who never been in that game and never seen the system from inside... "you'll need to mine asteroids all the month in order to get paid for the game time in order to mine asteroids the next month..." - anyone who played game really knows that it's not true - you can earn PLEX in EVE in two-three nights, playing 2-3 hours per night and doing it a fun way, in a group of other players and having fun (or even earn faster, just doing less fun and interesting things). And you can get necessary skills and ingame equipment to do that within ~ one month. Yes it takes time to read guides and you will most probably need good social skills to communicate with other players to get knowhow and to clear out a lot of questions - but isn't that the purpose of an MMO game after all?
 
So I know that this model works, I like how it works and I welcome the Idea to use it.
 
BUT I have seen how this model works well in EvE Online and I have seen how it FAILS in several other games that took the idea without the context it was used in.
 
First reason why PLEX system worked and still works fine in EvE is because game has essential ingame currency sinks and their ingame currency ISK is in constant demand. Players are constantly loosing big amounts of ISK (in several different ways) and they need more, therefore those who can afford to buy PLEX for IRL cash and sell it for the ISK, are quite eager to do that. The problem I have seen in ALL other games that tried to imitate this system was that they failed to create essential ingame currency sinks - there are huge amounts of ingame currencies that are floating around and generally just change the hands, but are never lost and disappear from the game, or if they do, then its just negligible percent of all the funds that are on players' hands. Thus there is no real demand for ingame cash, its almost useless and there is no reall market for those tokens - people don't sell them or if they do, then the price is so high (in order to make huge income of ingame currency which would allow to buy at least something really special in overinflated economy) that it almost does not make sense to pay it - that makes low demand for those overpriced tokens, sales become really stale, rare and thus people don't want to buy those tokens for IRL cash and wait for who knows how long to actually sell them for ingame currency... when EvE is totally opposite to that as literaly thousands of PLEX tokens are sold each day - sometimes they just change hands, as it's pretty good passive investment but quite often used for the ingame services: game time, vanity items (through aurum shop), character transfers, tickets for events and so on. So what makes PLEX in EvE really flourish is that there are plenty of ways to consume PLEX itself and there is a lot of way to consume and LOOSE FOR GOOD the ingame currency ISK as well. All that I seen in other games and I have seen quite a lot of them, who tried to implement the system of game time tokens, were not even close to the success of the PLEX in EvE.
 
I hope that developers of DU understand or will come to understanding of this aspect and won’t implement the bare token, but will create the system which would encourage demand for this token.