le_souriceau

So, here is pretty large and interesting thread for Landmark vets, It makes me little bit jealous : ) How about hardcore minecrafters? Lets show them power of Old Block Ways. Post your best things with nessesary comments and how you plan to rock world of DU with all your experience. I'll start. Most builds are from high-fantasy city project called Kingdom of Merovia. And there is a lot. Mostly mine disigns and global planning/coordination, but some things built (or updated later, when I quit MC) by my great building-buddy angvar -- also he made many of presented screenshots. Ships disigned by several other talented people of our building crew. Lots of people participated during years of building. MORE in spoiler V

Guy wants to know how build best ship possible. But this is NDA thing now (answers at least) -- so I directed him to proper part of forum. Also its looks like only russian-speakers can help him anyway. Thats all, nothing about communist secrets : )

Hope to see your organization in field, fully operational. I have solf spot on lawful-neutral and lawful-good guys : )

Привет. Вопрос для закрытых NDA форумов. Напиши там.

I will love to see lets say more hard and critical interviews with org leaders. Beause there is some, but generaly journalist are simply playing along super nicely and leader like bla bla bla im super great and bla bla bla we will be greatest in just everything bla bla bla. Its boring, like constant real world politicians blatant lies and empty talk. Corner them with hard questions, trap them with contradictions and their own stupid quotes, make them suffer and look like fools (ones who deserve it!). This is quality journalism.

Here is another one. And prepare yourself -- its hard one! I have background in city-building too, so I know for sure 1 painful thing. People eventualy start like "let me build this and that", or even worst, when some dimpomatic guests will present you with terrible prospect "we want our embassy looking like pink *censored*". Its always rather thin line between architectural diversity and people building complete vomit-inducing JUNK of blood_from_eyes_level. So, how you planning to control quality and cohesion of builds in Tranquility and balance it with other players creativity and "creativity"? This is hot sand with imossibility to be good for everyone. Some guys or gals will be just mad what you deny them something they think cool.

I have question. 6-7 or even more people looks like relativly large crew, and as I understand, all of then can expect some kind of compensation for their time and effort in form of salary or cut of profit. It will make you services pretty expensive. This means it will be targeted more for larger orgs, not individuals? Because even if I (lets assume it) wanted as solo player hire such team and ship for some mission, I'm not seeing it any way affordable. Or I missing something?

And thank you for so detailed and I must say passionate answers : ) I bevieve it will be interesting read for potential recruits and your open and secret adversaires as well : )

I have another questions that burrowing in my mind. Its more of general ones, but its interesting to hear you position on this with Tranquility. Lots of medium-smaller orgs like to: 1) Fanaticly call themself neutral; 2) Creating some kind tonns of virtual "aliances" with other small (or even tiny) ogs to appear stonger on paper. As I understand whole concept, Tranquility is little bit sinful in both of those directions. What all that "neutrality" truly means? Its fancy way to say that you too weak for PvP and know that? Because indeed you can be as neutral as you like sitting in safe zone, no one will care. But moment when you try to compete for recources or territories... Big guys on block just smash you, if you are not backed by other big guy. In in case of other "neutral allies" how viable is this? Lets assume, that hardcore specialized PvP org decides to make you life hell (just for fun). How rag-tag militia from dozen of tiny orgs (most of them non pvp oriented) can have any decent fighting chance? That even if they honour their obligations at all. Because talking from safety is cheap -- loosing ships and time in hopeless battle against brutal pvp vets is not. If it was I building some kind of city here, I looked out for good deal from one of sugar daddies with large stadnings fleets, with guys who on stand by 24/7 in sick milsim style (like best fleets in EvE). Because realisticly, I can't any see any other way for peaceful builder to defend if not city itself (it can be in safe zone) but lets call it ships under city flag. When people with your tags become banged-banged hard during mining or trade runs in non-safe space, they will start asking questions like why we are neural, but no one interested in this fact.

Thank you, very kind of you : ) But offering help to strangers can be dangerous virtue.

Well, Perhaps you right about timing. I'm sometime forget how tedious blocks production can be here. I personaly plan to just steal free carbs from starting zone and build everthing from bricks and wood. Old school style.

As it said: You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. Abraham Lincoln

Really nice point about sugurcoating! : ) There is so much sugarcoting sometimes, that I feel my cheeks sticking together just from reading it.

How you plan to react when 1st wave of new players will go to space at 1st time during official game release? For lots of guys something will go wrong at pretty much same time. E and E will likely be competrly overhelmed by those massed sos signals.

Thank you for good points! About profiteering from newbies -- I doubt that lot of quanta can be made from them. They simple will lack in game cash at first. But what worries me -- some guys will be selling "fast into game" packs of ships and other things to impatient (but IRL rich) newbies for DACs with crazy prices, ever worse -- scam them as hard, as it possible. This ugly practice surely arise and I doubt Devs will magane this cr*p effectivly. Only if they put like timer block for using DACs. About surviving -- I very strongly suspect, that generaly WHOLE Ailoth starting system (or even some others too) will be kind of safe zone, because if not, game start will quicky transform in meatgrinder of newbies (by those already have working pvp ships). And devs will barely survive insanly toxic-salty-drama fallout. This means building of gothic castles (ironicly -- absolutly my field of "expertise"), will be kinda possible in day one and generaly slowed only by need of grabbing decent land and core sizes involved, refining some carbon in pack into bricks. 6 m for city? I think you realy overcomplicate whole affair. I played a lot of builing multi games (3d, 2d, pvp, non pvp), generaly speaking it goes into 4 things: 1) guy n1 who knows what (and how) to buld and concentrating only on placement of blocks/tiles/other game units, he can do it himself 100% or providing basic blueprients and "fill wall here" or "mirror-copy this from left side" to some apprentices so to say 2) guys (lets call guys n2 - nX) who mine/refine and bring material for guy n1, it depends indeed of scale of gigantism and production times, but generaly this is matter mostly of weeks (days in some easier games) 3) interiors are beast of their own and can consume tonns of time -- this is true 4) if game systems provide some depth, you also some times need kind of "mechanic-guy" to do something fancy like redsotone in MC (Lua in DU) when builidings as static husks ready, or may be logistic guys, if you need to move things a lot In any rate, principal materials for large builds will be cheap ones, available even in starting zone, you can buy em too. I can predict that building of medium-scale city (it terms of strictly construction) will be something pretty doable buy 10 organized people here. Even less, it they super-effective and realy know what they doing. Quality of finished product is another thing indeed. Sometimes you also need to protect you building area, but this is likely not the case here -- all cities in DU will be more or less in safe space. Even cities of most braggin and militaristic orgs. They not fools to risk in reality.

Well, may be my 100500 cents help to bump thread. Every time I see "city-building" theme in org, I feel wierd kind of sorrow of crippled vet, who sees young soldiers marching to die -- and irresistable twitch in fingers to warn you. Flooderastia ilness, I know. This stars after 30. I tried to do all this "town things" as far as in Ultima Online and then half-dozen of years in Minecraft. And seen how its done by hundreds of others. Most failed. ITS INSANLY HARD to keep people interested and participating in your "city-town-flyingsomthing" entity - and even more so to invest their resources into you project. Its like battle you painfully fighting to lose. Because all stakes against you. On paper people are always so good and loyal (and there is many of them). Like yeah, give me this house/flat, and don't forget bestow some useless rank, I'll will be your citizen! I'll will help! Then they vanish. Fast. Sometimes -- next day. And you finding them building their own base or doing other OWN buisness. Because people are instinctivly not stupid (to waste their effort without real profit). Even friends and relatives will eventualy find excuses to participate less or completly diappear. In large scale of things they all rarely trully need your superficial place or 100% share your vision. Here begins mental gymnastics from "coordinators", "mayors", "megalords" and all that, no matter how they called. Like: "But my city so special because of so much friendship and fun, we all brothers and love each other"... "It will be biggest thing ever, you can't even understand true plan" "It so useful because we have here same things like everyone have in their bases too." "I have already like 200 members and we will expand even more very soon" (5 in reality, including brilliant leader and his 10 year brother who barely can play) "You just envious" Those guys always deeply disturbed me by complete lack of any connection with reality. As my painful experience says, to have at least some degree of success, city-like entity (and this true to any org generaly) must provide not just "lyrics" and bla bla bla different simulation of movement and result, but very practical benefit, hard projection of power inside game comminity. - be really rich and allow followers to fed on it (players motivated by greed) - kick hard in pvp (so people flocking into wining team, they always will) - have some heavy artillery creative people (who make something so far beyond common skill, that people want to bathe in that fame) - leader is somekind of god-tier charisma pshyco and people just enchanted by his presence (1 of 100.000). MMOs bring out something primal from people. They like to be in tribe with largest chief, brightest feathers and most fattiest pigs cooking on fire. So you must have laser-like focus to give them this one sweet thing (not promise hundreds of fantastical things!). From this point of view super-centralized military-pvp-only orgs are right. This how it works. You deliver one thing, but deliver it real good. Anything else, no matter how you put it, simply not works (or works very rarely). Sorry of unwarranted rant or something. Hope I help at least one head to think it over little bit.

This cool "State of Affair" thing must be more regular, like every quarter. And also we need some kind of fast special reportages, if hot chocolate massively hits proverbial fan.

Well, thank you. This is nice answer for my bit stingy question. I hope people reading this will make their mind to join or affiliate! Good luck with all those epic plans : )

I always absolutly love inspired projects like this in games! Great job so far. But I what always tortures me is how this ispired and noble idea connects with harsh realities of MMO. I have some kind of bad question : ) If we press big pink button with letters "Honesty" on it. Whole idea "I build city and people will live in it and love me" a bit from devil, yeah? : ) Like it can be masquaraded with all kind of fancy wording and sweet-sweet talking webs, like friendship, community, cooperation, together, making something great again -- to create image of selfless and humble man, who needs nothing but happiness of his subjects friends... but we all know, that at the end, this is ambition of one man, little megalomaniac, who want to be a boss. And this is not a bad thing. Its healthy! This how Napoleon started when he was small corsican noob. So. What do you think make you strong leader? Why people need to choose your project, not hundrends of others? What is your super-ability in leading to victory?

How do you expect it will unfold? And how patterns of possible profit will be arranged? First of all, lets leave ships alone for a moment. This is about old good solid ground buildings -- bases, cities, palaces of rich and huts of poor. Timeline -- moment when 1) nda goes 2) last wipe done Here is my take. > At begining every org will have "leader with grand vision" or some kind "chief achitect". At this point it will be very hard to sell anything. Because they will think that they absolutly good by themeselfs. > Bulilds aimed for PR and skill demostration will start popping off. Some from orgs, some from unaffiliated players. > After a while it will be painfullly obvious that some orgs stuck with incompetent builders (and this is often paired with incompetent leadership). Symptoms predictable -- naive gigantism, lack of focus (idea to be everything in same time), slow progress and just ugly result (sometimes to level of joke). > Orgs (at least more peaceful ones) will become increasingly interested in aquiring more quility builds for PR and prestige show off. Indeed they firstly try to "make" good builders members to have their skill for free. > Rich bored players or just connoisseurs of fine architerture will start patronizing exeptional builders (by hiring them for special projects or buying their works). ! Here time for serious buisness. Projects for hefty sums of in-game money and even DACs are possibility. X There is some orgs concieved as specialized in disigning and buiding things. Problem is same -- no one needs you services here if you are not like head above them in skill. I predict some of those orgs will fail miserably. > But strongest builders (and builder groups) survive and prosper in increasingly fierce and agressive competion. At top tier it will boil down to small group of prima-donnas (mostly entangled in building cold war). > Success also dependant of how unique style of builder/s will be. Lots of skyscrapper futuristic cities expected (because this is easiet way in setting-materials-wise) , but few of them will be good. Most -- boring glass boxes. = To be payed for you buiding skills you must be EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD, for anything else orgs will gladly just use "free" labour of their slaves members. Sorry if my projection is little bit cynical : ) Also for english. What is your take ot subject?

Oh, thank you : ) Then your mission not so bad. I was thinking of far more evil plans, misunderstood whole concept : ) Like copying even poor maidens trying to hide in their towers. Modifiying already sold blueprints looks like somewhat sketchy too... but mostly ok. More grey area then dark. Sorry for flooding your thread little bit.

Hmm, thanks, I see how it works (more o less) with ships. Improving and tunning is indeed reasonable spice for whole offer. What about buildings? (Most of my message was about them, actualy, my MC background works). Expample. Like guy 1 builds something like ultra-epic pink space fortress with fat unicorn in strange position on top of highest building that looks like candy. Everyone just dying how good this build is. But its owner refuses to give or sell any plans for copy -- no matter the money proposed. Then some sick unicorn-loving millonaire comes to you and tell - hey ccO, make copy for me for game $$$ or DACs. Then moral problems rolls (as I see it). Owner likely will be absolutly against such action. He wants his build stay unique. Even more he can fastly turn increasingly hostlie (as his friends). Other players will see you not as "copyright-freedom-fighters" but kind of dirty mercs, who will copy own mother for profit. Even if you finish build and copy in nicely (even with some improvments) -- result will be more or less stained by this little paid "theft", never as standalone thing, but copy. Owner of copy barely will be seen as good or serious man (here this part with not-so-cheap-but-fake-watch). Because his new possesion will be product not of building talent, but $$$ (no matter ingame or outgame). Or may be I'm too romantic about all this builder honour : )

Thing is (if plan works) you will be mostly asked to copy something cool and, most often then not -- rather big. From skilled builders. Who will be known in community. And I'm seriously doubt it will be practical and profitable (not only in material sense) to copy serious "signature" builds, because its more things of artistic prestige and show-offing then any material use. And if everyone knows that its just "stolen copy" (and they generaly will) -- new owner ending percieved kind of bouffun in gentlemen part of community. Like cheap guy with obviously fake expensive watch. Also, issues with original disign owners can go south (and completly out of hand) extreamly fast. And far beyond gameplay borders. Like they not simply attack your ship, but will hate you as person, seeking all kinds of vengeance. With smaller and less known things it can work, to extent. Generaly, idea is fun (as some kind freedom-protest mentality), but potential complications are very harsh.

Decent character editor and collection of different helmets will be sufficient.

You win in MMO when: 1) Having lots of fun; 2) Making new real friends (even if they 10.000 km afar); 3) Quit just in time, with bit of bright sorrow, but firm hand at "uninstall"... Everythings else will fade away in global scale of things.