blundertwink

It's beyond stupid to ask players to read and obey rules that can easily be integrated into the game itself...but this is something that's been said many, many times.
 
Game rules are meant to be integrated into the game, and if NQ doesn't want to do that basic thing, at least they can have a lighter hand in enforcement. 
 
Hope you have fun in whatever game you find, @Cergorach! I'm sure there's plenty of other studios that would work much harder for your sub money. 

Not really -- I articulated why it's bad design, why it's utterly unfeasible for NQ, and how there's an infinite number of far easier mechanics that would be much wiser choices for NQ. 
 
 
I don't "need" to do anything, and showering NQ with "more positive messages" won't help anything. As for subs and funding...that ship has already sailed, and it has jack to do with anything anyone is saying around here.
 
No one cares. If criticism on this forum that so few people view is making the difference between success and failure, that only underscores how poorly the game has scaled.
 
Criticism helps the game more than glowing positive platitudes. This idea that "if only people were more positive about the game, they'd have oh so much funding to hire devs" is just not grounded in any shred of reality.
 
This idea that they might merely be "one dev away" from fixing things makes me think you haven't had much experience working on large technical projects. That's just not how it works. One dev can't retool 8+ years of legacy code or fix the fundamental scaling challenges that come with a single-shard implementation.  
 
To say it again: criticism is not the same as toxicity. 
 
Toxicity is doing what you are doing: making claims about personal motivations that you know nothing about. When you spend your time talking about a person whose opinions you don't like instead of discussing their opinions on their merit, that's being toxic.
 
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but when I have something critical to say, I try to explain why I have the opinion I have.
 
Trying to assert that every opinion I've posted is just "hate" and "bashing" is what toxicity is -- it's conjuring up motivations about someone you don't know and implying those motivations are "wrong" because you don't have the patience or civility to allow for the possibility that people might simply have different opinions. 
 
For what it's worth: I've explained why food isn't a good design choice, how there's an infinite number of better and more simple design choices, and how implausible the laundry list of random features you've compiled is considering NQ's 8-year history of development velocity. That isn't merely regurgitating "food is annoying", but whatever. You do you. 

Got it. So you're yet another boring "I don't have anything to say about the topic, so I'll presume things about people I don't know and imply they are the ones being toxic". 
 
If you aren't interested in engaging further with the topic of the post in a civilized manner, you're the one that is bringing this to some weird personal level and should go. 
 
Criticism is not the same thing as toxicity -- you aren't obligated to agree with my opinions just as I'm not obligated to agree with yours...but you are obligated to stay on topic, remain civilized, and not resort to calling people "toxic" just because they express opinions you don't like.
 
You asked for actual criticism of your "idea" of a hunger meter...instead of engaging with that criticism (which again...you asked for) you're ranting about how "toxic" I am...? 🤷‍♂️

That's...an interesting theory of game design.
 
The challenge with motivating gameplay "by virtue of necessity" is that in general, players dislike being "forced". 
 
Consider a classic game like Mario, because it's often used as an example of quality game design.
 
You can complete the level as quickly as you want or barely finish within the time limit...you can care about points or power-ups or ignore them. The only thing you're "forced" to do is complete the level without dying. 
 
This is what creates engagement -- if you were forced to stop and eat every now and then, it might "give you something to do", but in the same way as busy work. It isn't something you want to do, it's something you have to do. 
 
Having gameplay or activities doesn't automatically mean those activities are engaging, which is the core goal of good design...not fidelity to real life. 
 
There's an infinite number of ways to create feature depth and engagement without having to force people to eat or starve.
 
It's easy to brainstorm about all the little things they could add "if only food were a thing", but this would be a huge undertaking for a studio with very limited resources that has shown very little willingness to introduce new features in general...
 
You can list some of the same integration points with something like energy production -- how it could encourage x/y/z dependencies between players and create new markets or promote "civilization" if done in x/y/z way....but no matter how you boil it down, it's a pipe dream because NQ doesn't want to make new features. 

I would like to thank NQ for being reverse-toxic enough to finally break through my DU addiction and make me quit! I can't thank you enough, another game/publisher will also really appreciate the €500/year that will go to them instead of NQ...
 
I've been unhappy with DU (and specifically NQ) for a while now. The 180 degree turnarounds on things they announce/say in an official capacity, the wipe... My gawd the wipe! The wipe announcement! The 5+ months of 0 motivation due to the wipe announcement... The talent points after wipe. The 2.5 years of downgrading DU instead of introducing new interesting stuff... But even with the lack of actual enjoyment and the constant feeling that all I've build in DU will be taken away again, I was still here, probably because I was addicted enough to DU to keep coming back. I've done the asteroid mining thing again and that was kinda disappointing with the 5000L-6000L nodes, but maybe if I gitgut the experience might be more enjoyable (like in the old days)... Every time I need to extend my subscription I think more and more about the option of quitting, but I can't do that because reasons... (addict reasoning)
 
But this morning I got a ticket from NQ support... But I didn't submit a ticket and the email I initially got wasn't clear about it either (system not designed for reverse tickets). So I log in and I see the claim that my Airdock at Alioth Market 6 is above the 1000m limit. And I get a REALLY negative feeling, not specifically because I need to move my airdock to a lower altitude, the person at NQ that submitted the ticket to me could probably do that for me (and they can, I just need to move the dynamic cores)... But because of, why the heck could I deploy that there in the first place? That 1000m height limit didn't feel correct, I thought it was 1000m above ground level (but that was wrong as well). Why didn't that 'feel' correct? Because we get blasted with a TON of conflicting information all over the place and I loose track of what the 'current' rules are... So I went digging, this is what I found:
 
 
The 1000m height limit was posted during an Ask Aphelia sessions (by NQ-Deckard) and it was 1000m above sea level (5th of August):
 
Then we have NQ-Deckard's announcement (23rd of November):
"We will allow these constructs to remain for two weeks beyond the implementation of the new height restriction system."
 
Patch notes (24th of November) state:
https://www.dualuniverse.game/launcher/patch/release-1014
"Alioth: 1300m"
 
The 'new height restriction system' hasn't been implemented yet, so structures placed should be OK (according to NQ-Deckard) two weeks after the 'new height restriction system' has been implemented, which again, it isn't.
 
Even IF that did happen in the last two weeks, that was never mentioned in the patch notes, heck the whole issue was not mentioned in patch notes known issues section. The patch notes actually say that the limit is 1300m (which I'm still above) and not a 1000m as the support person mentions and wasn't changed in later patch notes, it's also the most recent height limit that NQ mentions and I could find.
 
The issue for me is not the having to move the dynamic constructs so the support person can move it to the proper height. But that this isn't the issue, it's the issue that I have to dig through all kinds of NQ publiced information and even the lastest info there (1300m) doesn't conform with what the support person is saying (1000m). That says a couple of things to me: It's a mess internally at NQ as they can't even coordinate among themselves the proper values that things should be and they can't communicate with us correctly either (known issues), as I was under the assumption this issue was fixed a while back. So that was pretty much the straw that was breaking the camels back for me. But maybe I'll calm down before tonight, the deadline to extend the subscriptions for two of my accounts....
 
Then I get the support ticket back... Which it short, doesn't address my issues and pretty much states "Thank you for you detailed response, it's appreciated. Now you have 24 hours to move those dynamic constructs away or we have to delete (the static constructs?) as they violate the rules. Thank you."... Yeah, I'm out, no waiting for this evening.
 
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

It's beyond stupid to ask players to read and obey rules that can easily be integrated into the game itself...but this is something that's been said many, many times.
 
Game rules are meant to be integrated into the game, and if NQ doesn't want to do that basic thing, at least they can have a lighter hand in enforcement. 
 
Hope you have fun in whatever game you find, @Cergorach! I'm sure there's plenty of other studios that would work much harder for your sub money. 

Got it. So you're yet another boring "I don't have anything to say about the topic, so I'll presume things about people I don't know and imply they are the ones being toxic". 
 
If you aren't interested in engaging further with the topic of the post in a civilized manner, you're the one that is bringing this to some weird personal level and should go. 
 
Criticism is not the same thing as toxicity -- you aren't obligated to agree with my opinions just as I'm not obligated to agree with yours...but you are obligated to stay on topic, remain civilized, and not resort to calling people "toxic" just because they express opinions you don't like.
 
You asked for actual criticism of your "idea" of a hunger meter...instead of engaging with that criticism (which again...you asked for) you're ranting about how "toxic" I am...? 🤷‍♂️

Since you are having trouble understanding, food isn't a very good idea as a design concept.
 
Suggesting that DU "needs" food and this is the only idea that makes sense is just not very imaginative. It's hardly the only or best solution to DU's lack of engagement, which you don't really seem to understand. 
 
As I explained, one basic concept in game design is that players don't like being "forced" to do things -- a meter that kills you when it expires unless you constantly shovel food in your mouth is boring, unimaginative, and not a wise design choice for any MMO...especially one that seems predicated on AFK. 
 
"It will force people to work together" -- again, you're not understanding how good design works. In a good game, people want to work together because there's a carrot, not a stick.
 
I used a basic game like Mario because it's ostensibly simple for people to understand. There's no such thing as "MMO design" or "single player" design, good game design is about engagement and if you can't learn from such a simple example...that's on you. 
 
Also...the reason there's no cities in DU has jack to do with it's design -- it's because cities don't work. They aren't viable technically and they never will be with NQ's core tech.
 
The game often struggles with few players...the issue with creating "empires" is that the servers couldn't support such complexity even if NQ had the resources to implement the many vague ideas you're throwing against the wall...which they don't. 
 
 
Why do you care...? 
 
This has nothing to do with the topic -- people with no point to make love to imagine things about people they do not know and make believe about the motives of internet strangers.
 
It's a waste of space and a window into what your version of what a "reasonable argument" means. 

That's...an interesting theory of game design.
 
The challenge with motivating gameplay "by virtue of necessity" is that in general, players dislike being "forced". 
 
Consider a classic game like Mario, because it's often used as an example of quality game design.
 
You can complete the level as quickly as you want or barely finish within the time limit...you can care about points or power-ups or ignore them. The only thing you're "forced" to do is complete the level without dying. 
 
This is what creates engagement -- if you were forced to stop and eat every now and then, it might "give you something to do", but in the same way as busy work. It isn't something you want to do, it's something you have to do. 
 
Having gameplay or activities doesn't automatically mean those activities are engaging, which is the core goal of good design...not fidelity to real life. 
 
There's an infinite number of ways to create feature depth and engagement without having to force people to eat or starve.
 
It's easy to brainstorm about all the little things they could add "if only food were a thing", but this would be a huge undertaking for a studio with very limited resources that has shown very little willingness to introduce new features in general...
 
You can list some of the same integration points with something like energy production -- how it could encourage x/y/z dependencies between players and create new markets or promote "civilization" if done in x/y/z way....but no matter how you boil it down, it's a pipe dream because NQ doesn't want to make new features. 

That's...an interesting theory of game design.
 
The challenge with motivating gameplay "by virtue of necessity" is that in general, players dislike being "forced". 
 
Consider a classic game like Mario, because it's often used as an example of quality game design.
 
You can complete the level as quickly as you want or barely finish within the time limit...you can care about points or power-ups or ignore them. The only thing you're "forced" to do is complete the level without dying. 
 
This is what creates engagement -- if you were forced to stop and eat every now and then, it might "give you something to do", but in the same way as busy work. It isn't something you want to do, it's something you have to do. 
 
Having gameplay or activities doesn't automatically mean those activities are engaging, which is the core goal of good design...not fidelity to real life. 
 
There's an infinite number of ways to create feature depth and engagement without having to force people to eat or starve.
 
It's easy to brainstorm about all the little things they could add "if only food were a thing", but this would be a huge undertaking for a studio with very limited resources that has shown very little willingness to introduce new features in general...
 
You can list some of the same integration points with something like energy production -- how it could encourage x/y/z dependencies between players and create new markets or promote "civilization" if done in x/y/z way....but no matter how you boil it down, it's a pipe dream because NQ doesn't want to make new features. 

It can easily not be beneficial.
 
For example, if sub money is being spent on other projects because they know DU isn't going to work out, that's clearly not beneficial to DU. 
 
I'm unclear why you would think that NQ would develop a "more commercial" product just to support a product that's bleeding revenue...their goal is to make money, not to do commercial side projects just to burn money on a product that has not worked. 
 
 
It's up to the developer to tell us that the game is alive by communicating about the future.
 
On one hand we have a small dev using resources on other projects, on the other we have an MMO with zero traction that's only bleeding players. What else are we supposed to think? 
 
I'm not saying the "game is dead", NQ is. That's what this announcements means to me, anyway. 
 
Regardless, I disagree with this idea that talking frankly about the state of the game is "not helpful" because it's negative. 

It's certainly helpful to new players that think this is a good game to invest their time and money into.
 
Even the devs would rather invest their time and money elsewhere, apparently. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. 

Farming, both arable and pastoral, were suggested more than half a decade ago. 
 
not gonna happen at this point. 
 

Riiight? Honestly, it's weird that people believe DU is still being developed.
 
If you're still paying your sub, waiting for the game to improve, you should probably stop. 
 
There's no plans for future updates, the CEO is saying clear as day that their focus is on a "3d blogging" project and not DU, and the demographics of DU are so abysmal it would be absurd to suggest that NQ even should keep sinking time into a failed product. 
 
The game is dead.
 
People say that about MMOs all the time, granted, but in this case...the small studio developing it is clearly broadcasting that they are working on other stuff, the game has minuscule player pops, there's no updates in the works at all, and after 4 months, nothing has improved (4 months is an eternity for a new, sub-based MMO!) and player churn is the only stat that's growing. 
 
So...the answer about when X/Y/Z feature or change is coming....? It truly doesn't matter.
 
There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that DU is a viable product, even if you're one of the confused people that insists that horrid Steam stats "mean nothing". 
 
New players especially (the four of you) should be aware that DU is not an MMO....it's a small-scale online builder that does not have persistence because the product isn't sustainable.
 
The servers could go off in a year or in a month, but terribly low pops combined with not even having an announcement for the next update...that spells "we stopped working on DU" in any language. 

Unfortunately, there's no evidence to suggest that NQ is actively developing DU beyond bugs and maintenance. 
 
There is evidence to show the opposite: that they've given up on DU, are working on other things, and only doing the minimum bug fixing and maintenance.
 
The lack of any roadmap or even basic information bout a next update only emphasizes how DU is not being developed.
 
If I'm wrong, it's on NQ to showcase even a little interest in their own product and communicate this to paying customers.
 
Right now, you should assume that the game is dead because this is what NQ is stating with their silence. New MMOs live and die by update cadence as churn begins to erode the initial influx of new players -- only with DU, there was no influx, it's only churn.
 
So being fair....If I were NQ, I wouldn't update the game either. I can't blame that for making that sort of choice, I just wish they'd be honest with paying customers. Is DU still a priority? Are most resources in the company dedicated to it? What will change with the game in the next year? 
 
Even if they were actually developing DU, @Jinxed isn't exaggerating -- NQ doesn't have a history of engagement with their customers, especially when it comes to anything that might be construed as criticism. 

Who even cares? The last dozen people still building things?
 

No one has yet demonstrated what a "3D Blog" even is, let alone why anyone would want one or what function it might serve. All that word-salad seemed to do was suggest that DU is an example of one (???), and that they think that the "incentives" in DU are enough to get people "3D Blogging".
 
Pie in the sky. 
 

I said "the one person that bothers to DM you...", not that one person will view the content. Perhaps you should double check what I'm saying before you guess. 
 
But that's not really the point, I don't care one way or the other about this person's content or if it's good or bad or if it has a few thousand views or a few million.
 
What I have an issue with is coming into a forum and demanding that people only DM you and declaring you'll ignore comments...in a forum.
 
So it clearly wasn't about discussion at all for the OP, it was about everyone else doing stuff for the sake of this person's YouTube channel. 
 
I think it's arrogant to do a "survey" that was never going to have enough replies to mean jack anyway in this sort of way...again, don't care about this person's youtube channel or if it's good or bad because that isn't the point. 

That was my last straw.
Bla bla bla. 
Metaverse bla bla.
It's only a game!  Bla bla bla.
Mockning the paying customers, really?
 
Don't throw good money after bad.
 

It can easily not be beneficial.
 
For example, if sub money is being spent on other projects because they know DU isn't going to work out, that's clearly not beneficial to DU. 
 
I'm unclear why you would think that NQ would develop a "more commercial" product just to support a product that's bleeding revenue...their goal is to make money, not to do commercial side projects just to burn money on a product that has not worked. 
 
 
It's up to the developer to tell us that the game is alive by communicating about the future.
 
On one hand we have a small dev using resources on other projects, on the other we have an MMO with zero traction that's only bleeding players. What else are we supposed to think? 
 
I'm not saying the "game is dead", NQ is. That's what this announcements means to me, anyway. 
 
Regardless, I disagree with this idea that talking frankly about the state of the game is "not helpful" because it's negative. 

It's certainly helpful to new players that think this is a good game to invest their time and money into.
 
Even the devs would rather invest their time and money elsewhere, apparently. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. 

🤷‍♂️
 
Clearly it was never a lot. 😅
 
I think the point is that even NQ isn't focused on DU's future.
 
So the answer to "what's next?" is very simply: "a project other than DU". The CEO is spelling this out clearly (IMO), even if they don't want to announce it here. 
 
To those that enjoy the game by all means keep playing, but don't pretend sub money is going to improve DU or that the game will have major changes. 
 
New players especially should understand that as of right now there's no evidence to suggest NQ is going to keep developing DU in any meaningful way, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
 
Of course I could be wrong, but it's on NQ to clarify the statements by their own CEO and the lack of any updates or information in general since the last patch. 
 
I get that people have been doom and gloom for a long time and talking about how DU is "dead"...but at this point the writing is very literally on the wall. They are moving on to new projects and naysayers should get over it since it's "just a game". 
 
NQ seems to be all but done with DU, but they will milk remaining players for every penny they are worth and use player creations to promote other projects as "proof" of their great tech.
 
I wouldn't care enough to rant this long if they were at least somewhat honest with their players, but it's very likely that NQ ditched major dev on DU months ago to work on other projects. That's the final cherry on top of the "NQ treats its customers oh so well" sundae.

🤷‍♂️
 
Clearly it was never a lot. 😅
 
I think the point is that even NQ isn't focused on DU's future.
 
So the answer to "what's next?" is very simply: "a project other than DU". The CEO is spelling this out clearly (IMO), even if they don't want to announce it here. 
 
To those that enjoy the game by all means keep playing, but don't pretend sub money is going to improve DU or that the game will have major changes. 
 
New players especially should understand that as of right now there's no evidence to suggest NQ is going to keep developing DU in any meaningful way, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
 
Of course I could be wrong, but it's on NQ to clarify the statements by their own CEO and the lack of any updates or information in general since the last patch. 
 
I get that people have been doom and gloom for a long time and talking about how DU is "dead"...but at this point the writing is very literally on the wall. They are moving on to new projects and naysayers should get over it since it's "just a game". 
 
NQ seems to be all but done with DU, but they will milk remaining players for every penny they are worth and use player creations to promote other projects as "proof" of their great tech.
 
I wouldn't care enough to rant this long if they were at least somewhat honest with their players, but it's very likely that NQ ditched major dev on DU months ago to work on other projects. That's the final cherry on top of the "NQ treats its customers oh so well" sundae.

🤷‍♂️
 
Clearly it was never a lot. 😅
 
I think the point is that even NQ isn't focused on DU's future.
 
So the answer to "what's next?" is very simply: "a project other than DU". The CEO is spelling this out clearly (IMO), even if they don't want to announce it here. 
 
To those that enjoy the game by all means keep playing, but don't pretend sub money is going to improve DU or that the game will have major changes. 
 
New players especially should understand that as of right now there's no evidence to suggest NQ is going to keep developing DU in any meaningful way, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
 
Of course I could be wrong, but it's on NQ to clarify the statements by their own CEO and the lack of any updates or information in general since the last patch. 
 
I get that people have been doom and gloom for a long time and talking about how DU is "dead"...but at this point the writing is very literally on the wall. They are moving on to new projects and naysayers should get over it since it's "just a game". 
 
NQ seems to be all but done with DU, but they will milk remaining players for every penny they are worth and use player creations to promote other projects as "proof" of their great tech.
 
I wouldn't care enough to rant this long if they were at least somewhat honest with their players, but it's very likely that NQ ditched major dev on DU months ago to work on other projects. That's the final cherry on top of the "NQ treats its customers oh so well" sundae.

It can easily not be beneficial.
 
For example, if sub money is being spent on other projects because they know DU isn't going to work out, that's clearly not beneficial to DU. 
 
I'm unclear why you would think that NQ would develop a "more commercial" product just to support a product that's bleeding revenue...their goal is to make money, not to do commercial side projects just to burn money on a product that has not worked. 
 
 
It's up to the developer to tell us that the game is alive by communicating about the future.
 
On one hand we have a small dev using resources on other projects, on the other we have an MMO with zero traction that's only bleeding players. What else are we supposed to think? 
 
I'm not saying the "game is dead", NQ is. That's what this announcements means to me, anyway. 
 
Regardless, I disagree with this idea that talking frankly about the state of the game is "not helpful" because it's negative. 

It's certainly helpful to new players that think this is a good game to invest their time and money into.
 
Even the devs would rather invest their time and money elsewhere, apparently. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what is. 

I said "the one person that bothers to DM you...", not that one person will view the content. Perhaps you should double check what I'm saying before you guess. 
 
But that's not really the point, I don't care one way or the other about this person's content or if it's good or bad or if it has a few thousand views or a few million.
 
What I have an issue with is coming into a forum and demanding that people only DM you and declaring you'll ignore comments...in a forum.
 
So it clearly wasn't about discussion at all for the OP, it was about everyone else doing stuff for the sake of this person's YouTube channel. 
 
I think it's arrogant to do a "survey" that was never going to have enough replies to mean jack anyway in this sort of way...again, don't care about this person's youtube channel or if it's good or bad because that isn't the point. 

I expect you'll find:
 
A: Few if any people want to DM you directly
B: No matter how you collect feedback, there's not nearly enough results for it to be meaningful. 
 
I don't understand why you're mandating how you get results and have decided that only DMs will count...
 
Don't see why you expect people to do this, what benefit it has, or why you expect to get more than a small handful of replies this way...for a clearly unscientific / unofficial survey whose entire purpose is apparently for your video content...? 
 
If you want to use the forum, use it for a discussion...no one cares about your video "assessing the state of DU's launch", your "deadline" for replies, or your arbitrary demand that we DM you instead of using the forum to discuss.
 
But hey I'm sure the one person that bothers to DM you will enjoy that video. 🤷‍♂️