Kruzer
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Posts posted by Kruzer
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The fundamental issue that a lot are missing is the combat in this game sucks. It is shallow and boring. And the addition of asteroids kept that tradition alive with the hunt for asteroids being boring and needlessly time consuming. Now there is another game out there for us to compare to and there is no comparison. It is actually shocking considering DU has been in Beta for a year. The added nail, I don't have to bleed a monthly sub to be bored while the dev figures out what they want to make.
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3 hours ago, FuriousPuppy said:
its not forced, if you aren't willing to fight for the ore you can still just run missions in safe zone and buy it. You can use ore all the way to T5 without spending a single bullet for it. This whole rant wasnt very helpful.
It's absolutely forced. Ok not if you're only definition of 'force' is with violence. But making packages cancel the ability warp is attempting to force PvP encounters and is a short cut in game design to try to get players to participate in it. Having an alarm bell go off on asteroid discoveries is again a forced game element to artificially drive PvP. Asteroids are a temporary resource that are neither long lived enough or large enough to result in large scale Org vs Org conflict.
Look, there is a big chunk of the player base that doesn't find the combat mechanic very compelling. Target locking involves no skill and is a back ground calculation as is hit (or miss) location as is damage. That's likely due to technical limitations of the server, so be it. The only way you are going to get more players involved is to expand the role of combat/conflict in the game. We'll see what asteroids does for the game but I everything that I've heard about asteroids indicates that their purpose had a lot more to do with alleviating server issues caused by planetary mining. If so, that is very bad news for the introduction of a new system. So granted I have a bias about asteroids because I believe that the introduction of a new system with zero safe zones is one of the few things that will save this game. But, yes I could be wrong. Maybe the current PvP orgs have enough of a player base to sustain the game.
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The people that don't engage in PvP now are for the most part people that don't like the mechanic. 'Balancing' shields and honeycomb is going to do nothing to convince them to partake. Cheap game design to try and force PvP like idiot anti-warp packages for missions and system-wide APBs on asteroids (imagine in the gold rush a prospector finds the mother load and his first stop in town is the saloon where he loudly brags about his find and it's location saying he'll be headed to claim office the very next afternoon....). Do the hard work of proper game design to encourage PvP, like territory and resource control and people will hold their nose at the crappy combat mechanic and take part. Orgs will put together large groups to compete for those resources. Game design that FORCES PvP in order to merely access a couple of KL of T3 ore will just drive players from the game.
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9 hours ago, GraXXoR said:
Speaking of maps, these road maps remind me of places I've lived in my life.
The "other" game's roadmap, Japan:......
DU Roadmap, Zimbabwe: ......
Neither is a good comparison of the DU road map. Both have streets mapped out one is just a lot more sparse. The DU road map would be analogous to a list of street names with no graphical representation to their layout or intersection with other streets. Something like this;
First Ave, Main St, Young St., Memorial Ave., Southview Blvd., Northview Blvd.,,.... Coming early summer; 2nd Ave, Service Road and River Road!
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2 hours ago, DrDerp said:
Well you fail to show how there would be an inflation in the game. Raising prices per se ain't Inflation. Also I meant and said prices rising above the bot prices.
No I already showed it. You simply failed to read it. The mission system resulted in a big increase in the amount of quanta in the game. Inflation is an increase in the money supply. Very quickly after this quanta dump, prices in the market rose due to this inflation in the quanta supply.
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As far as I know, AC is still around. It is the splinter group, mainly ATOM and the other PvP focused orgs that have renamed themselves Legion. The only 'shard of Law' in the system is Aphelia, who's magic keeps planetary surfaces and the space around Alioth, Madis, and Thades immune to weapons fire.
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@NQ At some point you will have to decide what kind of game you are making. Are you making a creative mode game for people to build their sand castles? If so, wipe nothing and you're pretty much done.
If you are still intent on making the game you advertised where the game is driven by large scale player interaction then you will have to wipe everything completely and you are going to have to make serious changes in the game. Safe zones completely fly in the face of such a game. Resources and territory ownership are things that should have to be defended. The idea that major resources (mega-nodes for example) or prime real estate can be defended by a mere TU negates the need to form an org for defense or the need for orgs to interact through conflict or treaty to divide those resources.
If you want piracy then pirates need more tools to give options beyond the complete destruction of their targets. This would make haulers more open to piracy if encounters didn't always lead to a total loss. Piracy also needs to carry some in game consequences. Without safe zones, the price of piracy is living on the run or forming large pirate alliances. Now you can pillage a hauler and then camp safely in your base within the safe zone. Also, elements should be not be repairable. The idea that a small pirate ship can pirate a meganode worth of ore by simply field repairing a totally destroyed hauler is nonsense. If a pirate org wants such a heist they need to decide either to attack as a group and bring their own hauler or only disable the target hauler and take it over. At a certain point, total destruction should mean a total loss of the ship and cargo (this isn't possible in the current game).
- xTru and le_souriceau
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On 7/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, DekkarTV said:
But hey, big streamers like Gottchar quit right so the game must be dead. (he returned)
Other streamers like AmigoMike quit too because pvp was extremely frustrating. (oh wait, also returned)
Is DU a good game to watch on twitch? - No. Watching mining is boring. Many of the systems take so much time that it is not entertaining to watch. However there are new people and old people streaming daily still, and the twitch community is by far the funniest group of viewers/players you will find supporting those who do.
I only disagree with you on this. The streamer environment is a negative indicator. Viewer count has cratered as have the number of streamers. Gotchar wasn't a big streamer, he might be now but he wasn't compared to Markee who's left and Gaming Gothic who's also left. Even Shamsie was bigger than Gotchar. Even those that return have streamed on a less frequent basis than before. The Twitch presence of DU has declined, how meaningful that is to the state of the game is debatable but, to present the DU presence on Twitch as improving or an indicator of vibrancy is pretty unrealistic.
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2 hours ago, Bobbie said:
Never heard of AC, sorry.
It stands for air conditioning. Eternal's conked out again.
- GraXXoR and DarkHorizon
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1 hour ago, iNFiDeL said:
Firstly your "measure to reduce the risk of that happening" is stupid simple fly away from the pipe don't get caught. Second, its a god damn space game man, what space game that isn't a sandbox pve game like space engineers, doesn't have pirates? Third, slapping guns on your ships very much can do something but you wouldn't know that since you haven't tried. a little bit of armor and a full seat of weapons can easily stop a pirate in its track because most pirates use light weight (Hint Hint Low Hitpoint) interceptors that are basically glass cannons. Fourth, regarding pvp is a feature not a requisite, this is complete bull sh*t the only reason anyone can get t4 and 5 safely right now is because TW isn't implemented. The safe zones are only supposed to be around the 3 planets alioth/sanc, madis and thades. So at some point in the future the game itself will say your statement is wrong.
Yes, it is stupid simple and the cost of carrying it out is the extra time it takes to get off the 'pipe'. So? I'd have to be an idiot not to use it as it is the only means to offer reasonable assurance that weeks of work isn't undone. Look, if the dev wants me to engage in combat than they should be making it interesting enough for me to want to participate in it. I'm not opposed to PvP at all but there has to be a point to it or like in Elite Dangerous, the combat mechanic has to be interesting enough to make me want to engage in it despite there being no larger purpose. (I'm not saying combat in DU needs to be like ED just using it as an example). Rigging the game to try to force players into PvP is just wrong and ultimately is more likely to result in players leaving the game (which is really good for no one).
QuotePvp is supposed to be a very real and heavy portion of this game based on what the devs advertised and sold this game as.
This actually made me laugh. We could have a whole discussion on the devs living up to what we were sold on.
QuoteAlso mining is not in anyway comparable to ship building. Mining itself in any game has always come at some level of risk if pvp is implemented in the game. As always the high tier items are in more dangerous areas and as well the lower tier items are safe, which is where the pve stops just because there is a safe zone doesn't make this game pve, everyone is participating in pvp when they boot up DU whether they like it or not, just because someone stays in the safe zone doesn't make it not a pvp zone just outside, if you thought this game was some roblox fun house free for all where you can do what you want free of consequences then you are playing the wrong game or these devs straight up lied to a huge portion of the games' population.
You said it in your last sentance. If you were right in the first part of this point, the surface of planets outside the safe zone wouldn't be protected. Hell, if the dev were honest and didn't lie to us the only safe zone would be sanctuary.
QuoteRegardless of all this though, my point was not to support the act of camping on a ship, it was to only do away with the option when pirates have some tools to actually pirate. They didn't even program it out of the game yet, just setting up more rules on an open world game thats not feeling very open world.
To be clear, I never assumed you were advocating camping or any other exploiting the only problem I have with you is you trying to FORCE other players to participate in PvP.
QuoteNow regarding your "Serious questions"
1. Because it creates depth to progression slowing down what we have all made super fast due to the complete lack of any possible loss.
Nah, that can be done in other ways and it's up to the devs not you to determine that. The mission system and resulting quanta dump would indicate that you and the dev's thoughts are not aligned on this.
Quote2. A ship that is often time more valuable then what you are carrying again there is very much a possibility that the prey becomes the hunted here people actually fought back. Rare XL manuevers and rare weapons arn't cheap, neither are the boat loads of warp cells needed since NQ decided decent radar range isn't important.
No I don't think so, you are creating an alternate reality where a hauler would even care (or the combat mechanic be interesting enough for them) to go hunt down and loot a pirate. Also, in order to 'fight back' a hauler would also have to equip his ship with the same expensive Rare XL manuevers and rare weapons. And you are ignoring the days or weeks spent going down the drain on the hauler side.
Quote3. Tf are you even talking about.
Not important enough for me to bother clarifying.
Quote4. Probably should, but there are no NPC, no law besides the bs rules being added in by NQ which don't lead to any kind of in game punishment, just a ban since it made some safers salty enough to petition NQ a billion times. Your bringing up issues that aren't even being considered by NQ so don't waste my time.
You can't have it both ways. NQ isn't considering foiling the off pipe strat so you are wasting our time. Maybe trying to make your case without denigrating so called 'Safers' would be more effective? Look, I find the combat mechanic to be awful and there would seem to be a lot of players that feel the same way. Your approach of getting hostile towards them rather than suggest ways to make combat more interesting isn't constructive. It's more than likely that even if you were to successfully lobby NQ to rig the game to force players into combat, they'd just cancel their sub and leave. Which is fine if you feel there is enough interest otherwise to keep the game afloat.
Quote5. This is an entirely different issue all together, possibly fixed by the upcoming changes but as it stands fleet pvp is dead.
Yes it is dead and I have no faith that NQ will fix it or, if they do it will be too late.
QuoteEvery engagement leads to people simply leaving the pvp zone, no one dies no one gets an actual victory because voxel is so OP that you can survive nearly any fight. I am talking about pirating because pirating is what was effected by this rule change. fleet pvp is actually being focused on finally but that doesn't mean pirating should have no place.
I actually agree with you about the theory. But, in the state of the current game I don't believe piracy has a place. Ironically, while this sounds anti-piracy, my argument is that 'piracy' needs an expanded role. In the current game 'piracy' is closer to murder hoboing or griefing. There it is completely binary there is no option to surrender or discuss terms. There is no option to disable and loot some cargo it's just about murder and a total loss for one side.
Anyways, good luck with your lobby. If you are successful in your efforts and there is no improvement in the game play, maybe I'll give you my stuff. A bit of a pyric victory.
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No I don't think I should be exempt. I'm almost never in the safe zone and haul between planets constantly. In order to avoid the loss of a ship and weeks of work, I take measure to reduce the risk of that happening. Currently that involves staying off the pipes. Slapping a gun on my ship will do nothing against a purpose built ship.
The only sense of entitlement is coming from degenerates like you who think the game should be played according to how you think it should be played and all others should be forced to play according to your warped vision of who is justified to access what resources. Or, that because you want to pirate you are entitled to targets. Not asking for an easy kill? The minute a hauler is caught in range there is no escape unless they are intercepted close to the safe zone the only other means of escape is sheer incompetence of the pirate. The warp drive is easily perma-locked and the new update will put out a system wide APB when an miner finds an asteroid. PvP is a game feature not a requisite, the idea that someone who doesn't like PvP should be forced to participate in it is as absurd as forcing a ship builder like D4nk Knight or the Captain's Customs guy to mine.
Serious questions;
1. Why is piracy good for the game? Why is the lack of 'booty' bad for the game?
2. A miner/hauler is risking a hours of work and millions of quanta what is the pirate counter wagering?
3. I'll agree that there is RP value to the 'outlaw life' in a game but how does that jive with the presence of an all seeing entity overseeing the reconstruction of a society?
4. Shouldn't the life of an outlaw involve life out side the law? Shouldn't a life of crime mean no access to the safe zone (Alioth, Madis and Thades) and the protection it affords?
5. Why are you only talking about pirating in the context of PvP? There should be plenty of combat opportunities if the number players engaging in PvP is large enough.
Ultimately IMO it will be up to the dev to introduce conflict drivers in the game. There will need to be control of resources and territories to fight over. If conflict becomes bigger than just the ship on ship encounter more players may tolerate the combat mechanic to participate in the larger goal.
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5 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:
I have been here since early alpha, have quit the game on several occasions, always planned to come back. Personally i am enjoying the game more than ever at the moment, but there are a lot of opportunities that fit my playstyle. I have always played the markets, and that is good fun right now. I also enjoy missions, I can always find things to do whilst slowboating and i actually like the fact there is some risk involved, i would like to see more.
Regarding ore, I think autominers (on top of whatever they have planned for roids) will stabilise the economy again. I would remove the ability to hand in missions using VR as well or put a pack limit per ship on based on core size. To slow down the rampant increase in quanta.I hear you. But, your post also reminds me of another small hurdle. In my org, a big number of the players that have quit the game are Alpha backers. They are already bought and paid for, bringing them back in the game doesn't help improve the financial strength of the project. I'm not saying the game is in trouble now but it can't bleed money forever.
I got my amusement from the game by exploring/prospecting. Finding that uncommon, or rare mega node setting up a mining base mining it out and transporting it. The game is fast running out of interesting things to discover and asteroids won't fill this void. Risk during hauling isn't exciting to me without some chance for reward to balance the risk of a month of work going down the drain.
Give me and my org something to fight for. Imagine a org vs org war of a particularly valuable hex. I'd tolerate the crap mechanic to take part in PvP for that. But, right now a hex with a meganode is only valuable until the meganode is mined and even then, it is made invulnerable simply by the placement of a TU.
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9 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:
I will always argue with people who say there is nothing to do in game, that really depends on your playstyle.
I actually agree with you but, my point was they are quitting because there is nothing in the game THEY find enjoyable and this is why they quit. It's great that YOU (and me too btw) still find stuff to do in the game. However, I'm not sure there will be enough "me and yous" in the game to financially support the game without more to do in the game. At this point even I can see a point in the near future were the game will grow stale.
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On 7/22/2021 at 9:10 AM, Snipey said:
This is where you are vastly uneducated. In SLI The main sticking point to people quitting the game was nobody wants to mine. The markets are going insane with prices from people not mining and having absurd quanta. Almost none of the active members are out mining.
WE NEED A PASSIVE INFLUX OF BASIC ORES TO SUPPLEMENT PLAYER BURNOUT AND STILL MAINTAIN PRODUCTION.Utter nonsense. The jump in ore prices was directly due to the large dump of quanta in the game from the mission system. Good god, the prices jumped LESS THAN 48 hours after the missions dropped and minted instant billionaires. This is a classic step change to an obvious input. This is sun in the sky obvious stuff. And, you don't even have to be educated to see it, just not stupid.
Yes, there are lots of players that don't want to mine and for months before the missions ore was cheap. The point remains there isn't much else to do in the game. The combat mechanic is ass, and building sandcastles can only amuse for so long.
The asteroid update is just the same old planetary mining on a smaller scale. This game needs something to drive conflict, it needs resources or territory to fight over. If there is a reason to PvP beyond just being a dick, PvP activity will rocket regardless of the terrible mechanic.
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Oh look, another "whah I want an easy button to get kills thread". If you want a thrill when hauling then take your "armed and armoured beast" and fly the pipe, no one's stopping you. Why should I be forced to at best spend even more time on an hours long haul hoping my voxels outlast some "pirate's" ammo. Or worse, attach a gun to my ship and participate in an ass combat mechanic that's as about as challenging and complex as the board game "Battleship".
As for 'Safers', is that your name for so called 'pirates' that all operate bravely from their bases situated in the Safezone?
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19 hours ago, Wargearer said:
Like most of the people who i know end who dont play any more Fkng tired from hand mining like monkey in that game,im last standing person in my group end i say guis make automining first as next update who need the pvp update ore asteroids if you diging non stop 24/7 in a hall,IM fkng tired from that bullshit. wright now when i heer DU i fill like in a second i will trow ,thwt sow i fill about your mining gaimplay.
Automining will not help with players who quit the game. Sure they may say they quit the game because they got tired of hand mining but the real reason they quit was there is nothing else to do in the game that was interesting enough to keep them playing. Otherwise, they would have just moved to that activity rather than quitting the game.
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Is there really a need to have players scan 5 times to find an asteroid?? If there is a game play reason for it, I'd be open to it but so far it just looks like pointless time wasting. Also, the problem with your PvP isn't 'balance'. The combat mechanic sucks it's like a throw back to the first generation of a computerised version of dice rolling.
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When I see stuff like this I envision the crew of the Titanic trying to decide if they should redecorate the staterooms.
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Well, the wipe would be a calculation of trying to focus on bringing back players like you at the expense of being less attractive to new players coming into an already picked to the bones system or a fresh start for many and being somewhat more attractive to a new player having a better choice than a planet that looks like an abandoned ant colony. With the current state of the game the wipe vs no wipe is probably moot. There's actually less content in the game now than when I started in September.
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4 hours ago, DocOrange said:
Hello. as a total newbie in the game I need a long term objective. My question is: Is a pilot controlled battleship with a large amount of turrets possible or does every turret another player controller as in Star Citizen? So do you need a crew for the large combat ships?
I don't think you need to worry about a long term objective for this game.
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Recruit a Friend - Discussion Thread
in General Discussions
Posted
Well, the big benefit for you is that after two years, your friends have probably gotten over their anger at you and have started taking your calls again.