ColonkinYT

It is a paradox that in the construction space sandbox we are limited in construction and production.
First, they introduce hundreds of details that make up the craft and then complain about the server load. What prevented us from putting ingots into the assembler right away and getting finished products after tens of minutes and hours.
Talk about a fully modifiable world and complain about server performance when terraforming. (What prevented a week or two from simply filling up these ditches?)
And what prevents you from increasing the number of asteroids by 5 times and removing this moronic tracker? Give a radar for asteroids with a radius of 10 su. I found an asteroid - saved the coordinates and dig quietly, including in the pvp zone. Oh yes. PVP will be difficult for those who wish to look for their victims)). And who is easy now?

agree, the direction DU is going is only going to lead to selfdestruction.
 
systems based on taxes and timesinks as game features are dead but they dont know it yet.
The reason time sinks (instances) work in a regular MMO Are the rewards. What rewards are there on DU timesink? pay taxes? another time sink? maybe some talents 2500 or quanta 20k, but that is just throw away toilet paper worth.
No rewards per time unit spend, no reward per Quantasink, I stopped doing the tutorials because the rewards are so meaningless, I earn more by not logging for a day.
 
Someone in NQ missed the concept reward. Any game, Any, drives on rewards or leaderboards. But then again those leaderboards also contain rewards. So we are back to rewards. What rewards are there in DU? None, only time and quanta sinks

I think NQ especially underestimates this as a problem...yes, you can tell people to stash stuff at a safe moon, but that again puts the work and effort on the player's side. 
 
A player that's about to churn isn't going to take the time to pack up their stuff and move it to a safe moon expecting to come back someday. No, they're just going to churn. 
 
The best MMOs (and subs in general) understand that every customer eventually churns...but they also frequently re-engage. 
 
NQ can scold players to move stuff to Haven, but that misunderstands completely the mindset of a customer that's about to churn...and it's NQ that will suffer from this shortsighted concept, because clearly their churn rates are very bad among new players (as you can see from Steam's rapidly dwindling active player count). 
 
With no (apparent) strategy on how to grow the game, re-engaging lapsed customers is critical.
 
Telling the few customers that want to re-sub "welp, you should've moved stuff to Haven" is naive and self-defeating.
 
Also...if the OP wasn't aware of how this works, many others will be in the same boat...it isn't like NQ does a good job explaining all these rules.
 
They expect players to seek out this information, to do the work to prepare for their own churning sub, and don't see any issue with this at all.
 
 
Couldn't help but comment.
 
Their CTO's last job before NQ was an internship. Their head of tech's only other job was as an intern, so saying their work is "intern-level" isn't even a stretch, it's literally true. 

Which is exactly what needed to be proven.
After 1.5 months of playing, ore prices have already dropped to 16.
This is despite the fact that many industries have not yet been fully saturated with components.
And then we go to 10.
Regarding missions - why the hell should I do something that I don't like? After all, it's not 1999 when games were linear. But even in the 90s, not all games were linear. Why the hell should I be stupid for 2-3 hours doing missions? Oh yes. This is the source of the quarts. So why is there only one source? Why are there no mining / production / destruction missions?
I don't believe they are hard to make.
This is called ill-conceived game design. It would be forgivable for a game that just went into early access. But not DU.

Which is exactly what needed to be proven.
After 1.5 months of playing, ore prices have already dropped to 16.
This is despite the fact that many industries have not yet been fully saturated with components.
And then we go to 10.
Regarding missions - why the hell should I do something that I don't like? After all, it's not 1999 when games were linear. But even in the 90s, not all games were linear. Why the hell should I be stupid for 2-3 hours doing missions? Oh yes. This is the source of the quarts. So why is there only one source? Why are there no mining / production / destruction missions?
I don't believe they are hard to make.
This is called ill-conceived game design. It would be forgivable for a game that just went into early access. But not DU.

What am I talking about.
It's not even a question of mathematics.
And the fact that many seem to think like Pinocchio. That money grows on trees. And bread probably also grows in the garden. And cars reproduce by budding.
Of the sources of quanta in the system, in fact, only one remained - missions. Daily 100 thousand is just laughter.
As for the disposal of quanta from the system, there are many more of them: taxes on the territory, prices for schematics, taxes on the markets (by the way, so far a very small value).
Moreover, taxes on the territory are burned by the quantum, regardless of the character's economic activity.
 
And then everything is simple.
The influx of quants > the outflow of quants + produced goods - an inflationary economy.
Influx of quants < outflow of quants + produced goods - deflationary economy.
It's even simplified here. Because here it is necessary to understand that not all quanta that have come into the economy will participate in the economic turnover. Quite a significant part will be frozen on accounts, including inactive characters.
 
I draw your attention to the fact that at the moment we can say that the entire modern capitalist economy is developing according to an inflationary scenario (only high inflation is bad). This is the only way to ensure the reproduction of capital. With deflation, the reproduction of capital is not possible. You are facing a deflationary spiral. That is why in developed countries they prefer to distribute money to the population than to allow deflation.
The game economy is not much different from the real one. Simply because the same people operate there as in the real economy. with the same behavior.
 
P.S. The inflationary economy is easy enough for developers to control. It is enough to introduce a dynamic component of taxes in market transactions. There, even a change of 0.1% will have a significant impact with such volumes of transactions.
And with an inflationary model, everyone is much more willing to spend money. This revitalizes the market and interest for many professions.

mmmm...
One question.
And without bots, where will the money come from those players who have to spend it?

The rate of post release updates is extremely disheartening. We're getting the tiniest of bug fixes trickling out when there should be a flurry of activity... Hello Games releases MASSIVE patches (sometimes weekly after a DLC drop) for NMS fixing dozens of bugs at a time,  with a staff comprising about a dozen coders. And that's on top of constant, quartly MAJOR patches (I believe the latest patch is about the TWENTIETH major patch in six years. So that is between three and four truly major updates per year surrounded by bug fixes as and when needed.
 
Compare that to this game where every time they release a new feature (and by feature, I mean remove a game mechanic), four other features break.

Still, it only took them four years to release XS space fuel tanks, so at least they're on the ball there. LOL.

Having artificial money sinks is certainly a great way to take the air our of a player-to-player economy. At any point, there needs to be a balance between money in and money out of the system. And the money supply needs to grow along with the size of the economy, or deflationary difficulties will arise.
 
That's not the same as the "easy money" scenario with full-on Q-faucets and abyssal Q-sinks that we currently have.

I tried to have a discussion with people on DU Discord about this. It was like talking to six year olds...
 
 I asked, "where do the people who make things get their money from to buy ore and for their schematics?"
They said, "from selling things they don't use themselves to people who don't make things."
"And where does those people's money come from to buy the stuff?" I asked...
And they said, "from selling ore to people who make things..."
 
They literally couldn't comprehend the circular argument and the massive schematic (outgoing) faucet.

No wonder the world is in the current state it's in when people have no idea how simple maths works.

mmmm...
One question.
And without bots, where will the money come from those players who have to spend it?

Well, in general NQ is not known to take over the best ideas but those that limit gameplay and such. this limits it badly.
Thats all
 

Imho it would be simple. 1 T1 ore is worth 1 token. You give our Great Beneficial AI a liter of T1 ore, she gives you a token. She stores the ore and anyone can buy it back at 1 token per liter T1 ore. No free tokens, no missions for tokens or ore from that bank pool. No taxes needed for tiles, no taxes needed for schematics, no taxes needed for market transactions.
 
You want missions? Sure, the either players run their own or the AI pays you in schematics.
 
Markets? Player run markets. They need to build them, if they want to charge for their use, give them options to charge for it.

I'm honestly against the distribution of free quanta.
This does not reflect the actual contribution of a particular character to the economy of the universe.
Especially since it's not my job to come up with game mechanics for free))). They still don't read us.
But. An economy with an NPC at least in the form of Aphelia looks much more viable. In addition to issuing quanta in proportion to the contribution to the economy, people could be occupied with useful things.
Don't just buy resources. And to buy resources for the construction of stations. For example. First there are markets on Haven. The rest is just platforms.
And the goals of the community are to collect resources for money.
We collected resources - another market appeared. Etc. This would give insight into the purchase of ores and materials. By the way, it would be possible to buy products in the same way. Not just like that, but for something.
There is a lot of room for creativity here. But these are only dreams and will not come true.
The same with the transportation of resources to the planets and into space.
Under this, it would be possible to organize the clearing of space from rabid xenos (and the guys on the initial ships would have someone to shoot at).
But who cares...

Maybe I'm not going to say a popular thing, but the vision of JC's game was much nicer to me.
Regarding the economy controlled by the player. I have only one question.
WHO WILL BE THE MONEY EMISSION CENTER?
And as a result, after that, a lot of other questions:
If it's not Aphelia, then who is it?
And if Aphelia, then how to distribute money between players without bots and according to what principle?
And the most important thing. Without the NPC, most people will simply have nothing to do here ...
As for the players' markets, the dispenser is not even a substitute. This is the crutch of the crutch.
But we must admit that it would be a mistake to give players such a tool as the admin market. There are still too many unresolved issues here.
And the main one is the place of storage (containers). With the current limit of 10 links per 1 hub, the maximum that you can do is about 7.5 million liters. For the market, this is very small. If given as is, many will simply use the markets as bottomless free storage.

More and more topics, more sadness ...
Firstly. We must understand that if something is being done, then someone needs it. Even if we do not understand the purpose of the input.
Agree with many. Some mechanics are introduced intentionally to slow down the development of players and corporations. Only corporations could not be slowed down. As a result, the nerf was received mainly by solo players and small groups.
A simple answer to the question "why". Because it is not planned to introduce a large amount of additional content. Therefore, we get the classic lengthening of the grind.
Secondly. Pets, emotions and more. They will be introduced in any case and in any (even useless) form, because they promised. This is necessary at least in order to formally fulfill the promises on kickstarter. After these issues are closed, you can at least close, or do something else. Formal promises will be fulfilled.
Thirdly. Gameplay suggestions from players. I myself once believed that the forum read. I think that they still read it now, but very selectively. After all, members of the forum do not have the right to vote. Unfortunately in many things NQ management prefers to reinvent the wheel for the tenth time. Instead of using either the ideas of the players, or the experience of 30 years of the existence of the gaming industry. And if this does not happen, it is only because someone at the top needs it.
Fourth. Yes, we understand that NQ is a small studio. Moreover, it is possible and necessary to attract talented players to generate content. There is nothing wrong. People who are truly passionate about your game can do interesting and high-quality work. But for some reason UGC is not used.
I could write many other points. But even this is enough to ask a question. "Why does everything happen the way it does?"
It seems that the project is being prepared for closure.
All DACs distributed to sponsors will be worked out, several months on self-sufficiency and "the project did not live up to our expectations ...".
I'll be happy if I'm wrong!
If you can't do it yourself, give it to someone who can. But I don't remember anyone giving their project to someone else. It's easier to bury.

Oh yeah. This is a very handy phrase that fits everything in the world. Is not it?
Hell. Let's see the launch! Maybe they shouldn't have done it if they couldn't give us a GOOD WORKING GAME? With the normal accrual of rewards for packages. A month has already passed and my STU is not on the horizon yet.
So maybe it was not worth prematurely releasing if:
the planets are not ready (by the way, the end of October has come and where are our 3 planets?), 

And I will remind the phases. Although that road map has already been hidden.
End of October: Phase 02 (Sinnen, Sicari, Talemai)
End of November: Phase 03 (Simeon, Ion)
End of December: Phase 04 (Lacobus, Feli)
 
mechanics are not ready,
charges are not ready.
In this section, at least something can be done normally?
Or is it different? And also an exception?
Let's not justify unwillingness with impossibility.
We all make mistakes. I don't see anything wrong, to admit that I was wrong. And do it right. But this is not the NQ way.
I do not deny that there may be quite objective reasons for not giving us XL cores. For example, unwillingness (in terms of server load) for someone to place 10 thousand machines there. Because inside one such core you can do a lot and transfer details without human intervention.
It's too common and too easy to say "we can't give you this that works properly...".
I have already accepted a lot for myself regarding this game and these developers.
I just won't renew my subscription after it ends. I will keep all my DACs and will not use them until they take a step towards the players.
It looks like NQ understands only one language - the language of money.
 
And yes. We are not talking about simple girls and guys who write code, support the forum and discord. Solve player problems. To all these people - a huge thank you and low bow.
It's about who makes the decisions.

The presence of XL sized static cores on the market disproves any claims that there could be any problems with them. They stand in the markets (on the same 6th Aliot market).
They just don't want to. One of the reasons is that some people will start to industry on XL cores. Apparently that's what they don't like.
With dynamic cores, yes, there may be problems due to the fact that the calculation of zones is configured in this way. On the other hand, after the debility speed nerf for large ships, even L dynamic cores are not really needed...

And is all (of the things you've listed) coming not in the "next" update (1.1, a couple of months away) but in the one after that (1.2 - who knows how long that'll be delayed from it's currently-notional March next year, and how many of the "promised" features will actually make it in).
 
1.1 is only planned to include (and will inevitably miss some of):
Kickstarter backer rewards Grid snapping for bloops Steam Achievements Element recycling Schematic Talents And that's it. Zero alterations to any game loops or additions to them. Largely lipstick on pigs.
 
Looks like I'm three DACs and out until they make an actual game to play. At least now I have enough info to save the ones I have left til actual features are released so I can check them out in the real 'Verse without further outlay. I'm okay with that never happening; beta was fun until they shot it in the face and I've had my money's worth.

I'm not going to teach the NQ guys how to make money and what to do with my product.
But so that people do not poke developers into their promises, roadmaps and planning are needed.
Then the answers of the developers will lie within the framework of the map and plans. Nothing will lead them astray. Even if for some reason there is a delay, the community will still wait. Because it will be albeit with a delay.
The lack of plans and roadmaps gives rise to uncertainty and thoughts that the entire project is a scam. After all, in addition to money (not very small for projects of this level), we spend a lot of our time. Hoping not to see in 2 months (like in Starbase) that we finish the updates and return to the project someday because we ran out of money...

You understand what's the matter. DU is too straightforward and oppresses some at the expense of others.
If we talk about purchase orders for bots, then why such a loss of rights regarding production workers and pvp fighters? Why buy only ore?
If we are talking about MMOs, then it is logical that people will have specialties. According to your preferences. Why then only miners are encouraged?
I think developers should think about this.

There are so many alpha testers here because we know how it used to be. And what we lost on the release. )))

There are so many alpha testers here because we know how it used to be. And what we lost on the release. )))

There are so many alpha testers here because we know how it used to be. And what we lost on the release. )))

This is true. Although the situation could be corrected by the banal introduction of mining missions. If you do not want to update bots.
 For example, the delivery of ore, albeit a little cheaper than the market. It would also remove excess ore from the market. (this is just my crazy suggestion how to quickly solve the problem. Possible as a temporary solution).
I see that the developers only like delivery missions. To take a mission on Alioth, and take the ore, say, to Aegis in the amount of 2 kt, is also the same task. You won’t do it quickly (you still need to take the mission and land on Aliot for this). You can’t do it on a light ship either (2+ kt of cargo weight is already a normal howler, albeit on an S core. And now the machines are working at full capacity!)
 
You can deal with this quickly, beautifully and with interest for many.