Centcom

I’m not sure this qualifies as a reward for backers at least as far as im concerned. They not even offering half the skill points I have, and over six months time. 
basically if a beta key guy runs out buys a subscription they to would be eligible for a fancy pack as well. It’s  going to be a hard sell to the purse strings holder in my family, who coincidentally left after the first schematics debacle. 

It seems to be a common theme here,
 
1. NQ, don't deploy the schematic changes
 
2. NQ doesn't listen to the community
 
Seems to me that at release DU will be DOA, kind of sucks since i put so much time into alpha and beta to "help test and structure the game"
 

It seems to be a common theme here,
 
1. NQ, don't deploy the schematic changes
 
2. NQ doesn't listen to the community
 
Seems to me that at release DU will be DOA, kind of sucks since i put so much time into alpha and beta to "help test and structure the game"
 

How is it that you can get the message that the crafting system you implemented that had so many players stop playing because of how restrictive it was and how the barrier to entry was too high and decide the solution is to take the prohibitive system you have and then TIME GATE that construction process?

Like lets look at FUEL. A ship needs 10kL of fuel to fill a tank, each 100L of fuel needs 1h to create the schematic and around 3h of pures schematics to produce the hydrogen and fuel metals needed to craft that 100L of fuel. So we are looking at ~100h of timers to be able to fill a fuel tank which will run out in less than an hour of active flying.

How does this system make the game more accessible or more enjoyable? What purpose is this system supposed to serve? When is the game going to "find the fun" it spoke of rather than just continuing to make every system that is actually implemented more and more tedious and restrictive?

This is one of the most stupid broken mechanics I've seen NQ not only suggest, but apparently they also have implemented it, and knowing how arrogant they are they ABSOLUTELY won't accept that it's a stupid idea, even with tons of feedback here in the forums, but will push it into production.
 
NQ managed to make Schematics even worse than they already were, and are in the way of making this game a completely "not-a-sandbox" game, by trying to shape their "player-driven" game and economy their own way.
 
Please, if there's one thing I *hope* NQ employees listen is how stupid this change is going to be, specially by making consumables something you need to go and get individual Schematics for. I'm sure this will be yet another exodus of players, and this time not only I'll leave with them, but I'll make sure to spread the word on how broken this game has became and how NQ clearly doesn't care about the player base, but just about making alt-exploitable (P2W) mechanics.
 
So much for this game...

And what about those of us that bought schematics before the price drop, are they going to return at the same rate or are we going to get screwed again by only actually getting half our money back?
 
Not that it matters if they wipe the money anyway, it's all semantics. 
 
I still don't understand how we're trying to do final economic balance things before instilling very basic gameplay loops. This is madness to me.  Just seems like they're going to have to do all this again. 
 
I mean every time we've complained about a decision they've made, they tell us we're wrong and then months later they do exactly what we suggested in the first place. Happened with schematics with taxes with collision and obstruction. It's almost as if they are doing things under the veil of their customers are dummies and they know better. Then a few months down the line analytics tell them they we're idiots and we we're right and they finally do something that's inline with the game we actually want to play. 
 
Frustrating when they could just skip the stupidity and make the game people actually want to have fun playing and not treat like a second job.

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

the only fix to the schematic that NQ will allow is for you to purchase additional alts until you meet you SC requirements 
 
 
 
what does NQ care about giving us the quanta back for purchased schematics, they are going to wipe the game anyway. Its just a carrot

the only fix to the schematic that NQ will allow is for you to purchase additional alts until you meet you SC requirements 
 
 
 
what does NQ care about giving us the quanta back for purchased schematics, they are going to wipe the game anyway. Its just a carrot

Hey you want to join our org. if we combine our band aids we might be able to make a ship
 

So many things to respond to, but somehow i think it is pointless, because NQ is going to do this regardless of what is written in these soon to be ignored forums as history tells us regarding NQ.
 
I would say that forcing an economy is only going to force the player base into game play it doesn't want to do, which isn't healthy for profits. I say let the ability to be creative flow freely and let the quanta flow. Soon enough the player base will establish the economy. The game might get some good reviews for once which could lead to new players or old ones coming back. 
 
There are far more pressing issues than trying to force an economy they cannot hope to achieve. Its in the players nature to exploit, work around or just plain ignore game features they find distasteful. 

Its obvious that neither side will win this conversation, and that NQ doesn't care about player input.

I have already made up my mind that these changes kill the game for me. There is nothing that is going to happen at this point, short of NQ not deploying the changes that will get me to continue playing, and supporting DU.

However since NQ is looking for ways to "Fix" stuff I think we should apply the same schematic fix to PVP.  Its easy.

1. All weapons now need a Charge to be able to fire. (Oh and they will still need ammunition)
2. you can buy a Charge from Aphelia so that you can make additional charges 
3. you have 5 slots to produce additional charges to apply to your weapons. (Small time and quanta investment will apply)

so that now it can cost millions of quanta to fire your weapons in PVP. This way you really need to think about if you should fire or not.  This should cut down on the amount of people engaging and PVP and solve the whole issue.

Granted I think this is the stupidest idea ever. Much like applying the exact same ideas to industry. But ask yourself if we as the player base stand by and say nothing at what point does the AFK timer BS stop. When will be able to just play the game in the sandbox we were promised and have a good time.
 

So the band aid holding the entire game's economy together will be a highly limited resource that can be gained in an infinitely increasing scale depending on how many accounts you're willing to pay for.
 

that's why I included ship elements. Can't slowboat without a ship either.

So many things to respond to, but somehow i think it is pointless, because NQ is going to do this regardless of what is written in these soon to be ignored forums as history tells us regarding NQ.
 
I would say that forcing an economy is only going to force the player base into game play it doesn't want to do, which isn't healthy for profits. I say let the ability to be creative flow freely and let the quanta flow. Soon enough the player base will establish the economy. The game might get some good reviews for once which could lead to new players or old ones coming back. 
 
There are far more pressing issues than trying to force an economy they cannot hope to achieve. Its in the players nature to exploit, work around or just plain ignore game features they find distasteful. 

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

if you are trying to close the server down, just turn it off and never turn it back on , be done with it already. 

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.
1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.
2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  
 
in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.
 
I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 
 
Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

With all the talk about how we will react to it one would think they might actually change some of this crap. But, knowing NQ for what they are this is coming Tuesday and we can all get bent. Because it's their game and we just pay for the right to be told we're wrong and don't see the game dying around us every day from garbage development.
 
They're trying to balance an economy when the elements and gameplay loops aren't even established.  
 
They can't get away with telling us we didn't say anything either. The whole post they tried to bury when they opened this one says we were loud and clear. but we will be ignored yet again.

That's what really annoys me - whenever people defend it as a change that was needed for the long term health of the game....
 
It's nonsense. In the long term everyone who ever wanted to do industry will have ground enough to have all the schematics. All that was added was the time sink to get them. You can still do the same thing you could before. Now you just have to grind a lot first - but a year from now we'll be back to where we started. Same mega factories. Just a whole lot of time wasted to get them running again.
 
This patch did nothing but add way more tedious grinding to a game that was already mostly tedious grinding. This should have been obvious to the devs. It was obvious to the players who left this feedback - https://dualuniverse.featureupvote.com/suggestions/122819/recipes-as-items-industry-balancing  and yet it got pushed out anyway....
 
 

Look, the majority of your player base does not like this patch. and you should be more than aware of it. There were things that could have been done, things that have been suggested on here a multitude of times in the past. This patch... despite your Discord Q&A, and all of your live streams, all it showed us is that you simply did not listen to your player base, or their ideas. We are the beta testers, and we have given our feedback on so many, if not all of the currently available  aspects, and tools of the game which could increase the enjoyability for everyone.
 
your testers are leaving. I've seen several people  cancel their subscription, myself included. My sub ends on JAN 11 2021, and from how things are looking, I do not think Ill be resubbing after that date. However it isn't too late. There are other updates which could fix this, patches that can draw DU's community back to the game. After watching your discord, the forums, and talking to so many other players from in game, and on other discord servers. I think I can summarize the changes needed which could bring some the faith back to DU's community.
 
1: SCHEMATICS: Now I want to say this first. Schematics are not inherently bad, however the way it has been implemented is the biggest problem we have here. It was implemented to bring value to intermediate parts, and to suck money out of the world. You want to have players buy them off of the market. you want the market to be used, correct? There were better ways to handle this problem. 

Schematics can stay, but not for everything. By placing them on absolutely every item that we can produced through a factory unit, you have effectively placed a ransomware on your own game. We cant do anything anymore without forking over absurd amounts of cash to get access to the game. This is not a model for any level of play. New comer's will be turned away from this, and more experienced players will simply give up on the game, which they have done.

Basic Items of all types should be free of schematics. Doing this allows everyone to at least experience the core  aspects of DU. we can build, fly around and explore. DU can feel like a game again, and not a second virtual job. 

Schematics can be on everything else. Military engines, advanced, or uncommon parts, advanced weapons. Everything that isn't tier 1 should have a schematic in order to give your player base a goal, a reason to want to improve, to invest time into DU. (but maybe release tier 1 weapons as civilian weapons that need T1 and T2 ores only.  just so that newbies can get the feel of how combat works in this game, yea?)

2:RECYCLERS AND SCRAP: recyclers are sitting In a weird spot, right? they only have 2 uses. To make scrap, and to pump out gasses. These two simple jobs makes recyclers relatively useless in the grander scheme of the game when compared to all of the other industry elements. What if they didn't have to be? what if they could be redesigned to be one of the most important industrial units in the game, and provide a way to fuel the economy in way we currently cannot reproduce on our own through emergent gameplay? What if.... they could... Recycle? 
 
Scrap as it stands now was an OK Method to repair our elements in the earlier days of this game. but those days are long gone, and you need a reason for the market to exist, you need a reason for people to sell small parts, intermediate parts on these markets! Ok. We can do that, and recyclers are the answer. Allow recyclers to break down elements, and damaged elements with less that 3, or 5 repairs left. Allow the amount of "lives" of an element determine how many intermediate components a recycler can pull out of any particular element. Allow it to be random in which parts are chosen. For example, if you recycle one space engine, you get the ionic chamber, and a few screws. If you recycle a second one, you could get the reinforced frame, and a burner or two. It could also produce scrap still!  Scrap can come in the form of a useless item that needs to be further broken down to remake pure metals. But wait. what will we use to repair our elements if  scrap becomes useless? INTERMEDIATE PARTS!

look at Space engineers for inspiration. we use components to repair their broken blocks. You do not need to equip the parts you need, the welding tool simply pulls the correct parts out of your inventory, and applies them to the damaged block until it is repaired! Its simple, its elegant, and immersive. Doing this creates not only an actual engineering role for crew members, but it creates salvagers, recycling plants dedicated to breaking down old parts. It creates jobs in DU that people can take their roll in, and  enjoy. This can be even furthered with skills to make recyclers more efficient at pulling out parts, and breaking down elements faster.
 
Intermediate  parts will be in high demand  on the markets after this because they are NEEDED to repair elements as opposed to scrap. 

PS: make cores repairable with intermediate parts too. larger dynamic cores are already hard to make, having the ability to restore them with the rare parts they require would be a nice thing to have.