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The Council of Alioth

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I've been mulling this one over for a couple of days, and I really think we need to talk about a potentially controversial topic.

 

I want you to understand that I mean no offense, and that I am fully cognizant of the sensitive nature of what I am about to propose. I simply see no alternative.

 

You see, I'm worried about the Dickbutt.

 

Not in any sort of moral or existential way, of course. I, too, can find humor in a classic meme. So, I should clarify:

 

What I'm really worried about are Indestructible Dickbutts.

 

Don't laugh, at least not yet. It's an entirely plausible exploit of the Novark force field. In fact, it even has an acronym to describe the phenomenon: TTP, or Time Till Penis. This is something that occurs in games that allow creative control and an ability to force potentially thousands of people to look at their penises creative endeavors. There is a certain subset of players that simply cannot help themselves. I defy you to deny it.

 

Here's the rub. The crux of the matter is that all players will spawn at the same point, and that point is protected (rightfully so, IMHO) by a force field that prevents PVP. The goal of this force field is to allow both new players a safe spot to get their feet under themselves, and a place for those who simply want to build in peace, unmolested by griefers. The result of this force field may well be 20 kilometers (is that squared? I don't think it's been clarified.) of 60 meter tall penis sculptures that cannot be destroyed because we want an area for builders to be safe from griefing.

 

Still laughing? I bet NQ isn't. This is an all-to-real scenario for a new player, logging in for the first time, two or three years after release...Dickbutts as far as the eye can see.

 

"But wait," you say, "somebody might make BOOBS!"

 

...STFU, and pay attention, ya dingus, that's not the point!

 

The point is there is going to have to be a mechanism to deal with prevent this, and I really only see two possibilities. The first is that the developers periodically comb the area of the Novark force field and delete the vulgar creations, which sounds really ham-handed and immersion-breaking. (Not to mention the fact that I would really need to have a heart-to-heart with myself if that was part of my job.) The second is that there is a player-driven mechanism to weed out the obvious trolls.

 

Now doesn't that sounds nice?

 

The cool thing is that there are two mechanics in place that could facilitate such a process, with a little help from Novaquark. The first is the territory control system, and the the second is the "tagging" system.

 

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/07/24/territory-control/

 

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/ 

 

...and then there is this magical third system, called Democracy, which we'll get to...

 

 The Idea is that NQ would sponsor a player council that would be democratically elected to be both a player advocacy group (a la, the "Council of Stellar Management" from Eve), and  an in-game rule-making council of governance for the Novark force field protected area. It is this "Council of the Novark freeport" that would be responsible for the tagging system which would dictate who could build permanent structures within the protected zone. The council would either approve of a project, or approve of an architect, or neither, whatever was required/appropriate. This would allow for an aesthetic change in the player base over time by giving the players, as a whole, a chance to vote for their preferred aesthetic principles. Current councils would be endowed with the ability to mark for destruction any construct within the radius of the Novark force field, or something similar (perhaps subject to a player-wide referendum vote).

 

The Pressure Release Valve in this system, as I see it, is the Dev's willingness to consider an in-game "VR" builder-mode. People could always have access to their own building mini-game for "blueprint" development. "Design your shit in a safe-zone, but build it elsewhere."

 

Okay...I'm long-winded, sue me.

 

I'm tired of my ideas...tell me yours!

 

P.S. Like 'dis if you cry e'ry tyme...

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Yes yes quite. Thank you for bring up these, ah, excellent points. I am sure we all have very real concerns of the possibility of these controversial creations...but the real point of your post here as I understand it is to introduce the idea of a player council, indeed similar to the Council of Stellar Management present in EVE.

 

Well, allow me to steer you to this particular thread, for the idea has already seen the light of day. Please peruse it at your leisure.

 

Yours sincerely,

Astrophil

Democracy Killer

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Honestly I was considering making a post about this, since I remembered that first EVE PowerPoint at Fanfest (2014 I think) where they talked about introducing custom skins.  I feel that you are definitely right about the devs breaking immersion would be a bad idea, but I would feel real sad for those poor players who have to scroll though huge lists of building requests, which would surely take a long time to receive permission.  I propose the alternative that there be in place some pattern recognition it the design interface that would throw up flags, then send the blueprint over to a body of community members that rotate randomly either randomly, or though some list of players with some sort of "notable builder" tag on their character for a vote.  If the design receives a set number of votes then it would pass and be build-able.  How the players are determined, and how the pattern recognition would work probably need the CSM equivalent.  The point is to lessen a CSMs burden, because if this game is going to have one then I would prefer it to focus on more than just the TTP issue.

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@CosmicDragon

 

I feel like it would be harder for NQ to code a pattern recognition algorithm than it would be for a player council to create a list of approved architectural "entities" (read: Architect Firms) based on player submitted, and perhaps player voted, designs.

 

Not that your idea doesn't have a great deal of merit, provided they had the coding time. I would also like the council to worry about larger issues than the TTP.  :huh:

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I have a plan for people who get out of line.

 

Were going to have a ship that comes by every once in a while labeled 'free candy'

 

But in reality its going to fly to Captain Twerkmotors slave pens. Thats where we will send the trolls. To the Pirate King.

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Dude... have you been reading my mind? I've been thinking about this issue for like a week too and I made sure to ask about it in the AMA as well.

 

One of the greatest appeals of any sci-fi game is cool looking cities and ships. But in the case of Dual it seems that just one idiot with a mission could do a lot to break the immersion. 

 

First off, I really like the ideas you brought up and I think they would actually solve this pretty well. However, I do view them as a last resort. My preference would be to use game mechanics to favor useful designs over useless/joke constructs. 

 

Here's my idea:

 

The kind of technology that the ark uses to protect buildings should take up a huge amount energy because it is actively preventing certain players from destroying/modifying voxels, and as more constructs are created it has to protect more. So in order to balance this, players have to actively pay for their use of of the arkified area on a per-voxel basis (whether this should be monetary or resources idk). If the player runs out of resources to maintain the construct within the arkified zone, it temporarily becomes unprotected and players can either destroy it, or start paying for those voxels themselves. 

 

This idea assumes that "VR mode" blueprint construction is implemented. This means that players who are just starting out and cannot yet pay for protection of their constructs in the ark-zone can do so by using VR construction and building the actual structure elsewhere. If they (as a new player) want to build their structure within the ark zone must begin a career or coordinate with an established organization to get it built and regularly payed for.  

 

While this cost of building in a protected zone is a downside, it can easily be worth the cost. Buildings within this zone are the first constructs players see when the spawn at the ark ship, so these buildings will have more visibility to new players than any other in the game with the added benefit of being indestructible. If you are seeking a place for your market, business, or organization headquarters there is no better location than here. 

 

The desired effects of this mechanic:

 

Arkified areas become functioning cities rather than just a mismatched graveyard of unused player constructs. The construct has to be providing value to an active/organization player in order to be worth the cost of it's existence. Buildings within the arkified area will not be on a first come, first serve basis. If a player decides to leave the gave for more than a few weeks, they need to consider whether they have enough resources to pay for it over the long term, and if not, consider giving ownership to someone else who can stay online. 

 

And finally, I feel that this would, at the very least, limit the proliferation of the "TTP" problem. Unless an entire organization is very passionate about paying for and maintaining Dickbutt structures it simply won't be worth the resource draw. :P

 

If you agree or see a major flaw in my reasoning here lmk.

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I think I like the idea of letting democracy take control of the situation.  Remember though, that safe areas are supposed to be primarily for noobies to learn the game, so I don't think you should need to apply for a plot to build something.  Paying to rent space in safe areas is less suitable.

 

Rather than a council that has lots of responsibilities I would just have an elected Board of Town Planning who make decisions on demolition of existing buildings only.

 

There are still problems here.  One is the board destroying any buildings they see fit and timing it with their friends so that they can build their own stuff there.  So there needs to be some kind of waiting period and appeals process.  Say a one month waiting period before a building can be torn down, where the building is marked for destruction and players can appeal.  The board then either withdraws the destruction or gives the appealing player the option to appeal to directly to NQ.  NQ then make the final decision.  If board members risk losing their position and player risk warnings and account bans for obviously bogus appeals then hopefully NQ won't get too many appeals deferred to them.

 

Another problem is players who have left the game for a time and aren't around to appeal come back and find their stuff gone.  Safe areas are supposed to be permanently safe and there is nowhere else for players to keep their things long term.  I'm not sure what the solution is to this problem with this system without giving NQ full control over what goes and what stays in safe zones.

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Let nature deal with dickbutts. You know, War. Maybe we have some White Knights who go around destroying the shrines to the God of Procreation. And we will have a Holy War. The White P.C. Knights and the Followers of Lord Dickbutt. 

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Let nature deal with dickbutts. You know, War. Maybe we have some White Knights who go around destroying the shrines to the God of Procreation. And we will have a Holy War. The White P.C. Knights and the Followers of Lord Dickbutt. 

 

Yeah but we're talking about in the safe zones.  God and His White Knights are powerless before the might of the Arkship.

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@Klatu Satori


Then yes, periodic wiping, cause you know people will make alts if you allow a claim system with at timer.


But outside into the wild, LORD DICKBUTT SHALT PREVAIL.

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This matter should just be dealt with by dev's or a dedicated in game admin wich every game has. That way biased destruction is avoided, there will always be a resposible person looking after the game. And starter zone is not alot to cover.

 

also we might still hear from the dev's how did they plan to deal wit hit, surely they have though of it by now.

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Here's my idea:

 

The kind of technology that the ark uses to protect buildings should take up a huge amount energy because it is actively preventing certain players from destroying/modifying voxels, and as more constructs are created it has to protect more. So in order to balance this, players have to actively pay for their use of of the arkified area on a per-voxel basis (whether this should be monetary or resources idk). If the player runs out of resources to maintain the construct within the arkified zone, it temporarily becomes unprotected and players can either destroy it, or start paying for those voxels themselves. 

 

This idea assumes that "VR mode" blueprint construction is implemented. This means that players who are just starting out and cannot yet pay for protection of their constructs in the ark-zone can do so by using VR construction and building the actual structure elsewhere. If they (as a new player) want to build their structure within the ark zone must begin a career or coordinate with an established organization to get it built and regularly payed for.  

 

While this cost of building in a protected zone is a downside, it can easily be worth the cost. Buildings within this zone are the first constructs players see when the spawn at the ark ship, so these buildings will have more visibility to new players than any other in the game with the added benefit of being indestructible. If you are seeking a place for your market, business, or organization headquarters there is no better location than here. 

 

 

Aha...so there is a way to buy out the Ark area. Excellent. +1 this idea :D

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They could make the starter area a Virtual Reality in your cryo-sleep. Think Demolition Man logic. You go to cryo sleep, wake up, you know how to knit neat vests.

Same logic here, but your starter area is a VR world, that is wiped out after your tutorial sessions is over. 

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Well if it's only about the very first starting Arkship then i'd really like the Devs to have their own zone with their creative constructions. In an interview iirc it was mentioned that there could be some npc or dev's made buildings to help players start.

Or if not the whole Arkship area then atleast the area around the respawn or something and only the outer edges should be usable by players.

 

There are several points that make it more attractive to have been designed by the devs than by players:

 

1. It's the Devs, they can have easier/better overview of the zone and design it more harmonically/fitting.

 

2. Would be very interesting to see how the Devs imagine how the future constructs are designed. Since everything else will be player built, this would be a one and only permanent show from the Devs, while ofc they could still bring some stuff up during events etc. but atleast there is one thing you can always go take a look at.

 

3. If players are the ones who build around the respawn then its kinda like first come first serve in terms of showing off your building or designt or whatevs, you will be bringin more customers probably. If Devs do it then theres no advertising.

 

So yeah, easy solution if the Devs can make an exception on the *everything is player built* thing on this zone or atleast the center of the zone.

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This kind of feels like one of those rules that has to be enforced by GMs it's not really anyworse than someone spamming profanity in chat

 

And as easy as wrist slap then ban or whatever

 

But yeah 100% for sure I errr I mean someone would do that

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I think we should hand over the Novark territory to the Cinderfall Syndicate

 

The job would be best suited for COPS.

 

For 2-3 Years the majority of COPS have played together in Landmark. We are accustomed to the vetting process for player submitted items and the community has shown amazing resilience against voxel phallus. The community as a whole has been extremely mature in their creations, the one exception has been Frigo Porco (not picking on him, just facts) with his XXX builds and soft soft porn magazines.

 

When the people have a choice, they choose the right choice, they choose COPS!

:P

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The job would be best suited for COPS.

 

For 2-3 Years the majority of COPS have played together in Landmark. We are accustomed to the vetting process for player submitted items and the community has shown amazing resilience against voxel phallus. The community as a whole has been extremely mature in their creations, the one exception has been Frigo Porco (not picking on him, just facts) with his XXX builds and soft soft porn magazines.

 

When the people have a choice, they choose the right choice, they choose COPS!

:P

 

It's all about image, my dear Kiklix. Surely we wouldn't want to discourage or intimidate new players with such a projection of grand piracy and smuggling as COPS so happens to create?

 

How very ironic. When people have a choice, they gravitate towards the one with a net benefit for themselves. Cinderfall is able to provide that. Welcome to the Syndicate, newbies.

 

:P

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It's all about image, my dear Kiklix. Surely we wouldn't want to discourage or intimidate new players with such a projection of grand piracy and smuggling as COPS so happens to create?

 

How very ironic. When people have a choice, they gravitate towards the one with a net benefit for themselves. Cinderfall is able to provide that. Welcome to the Syndicate, newbies.

 

:P

 

Only the selfish and narcissistic care about image. The real people crave substance. The salt of the old Earth, the disenfranchised, the torn and wounded...they all see that 'Grand' organization Cinderfall for what it is, perpetual enslavement on humanity.

 

This is the new world, this is the time of the free people, this is the fight that pirates, smugglers, ninjas, mercenaries, outcasts and farmers take up to proclaim their independence against the syndicate and that is something only COPS can deliver!

Welcome to the free world my friends, welcome to the Coalition of Pirates & Smugglers!

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dunno why you keep bringing suggestions that will never be used since having an organization having power over something others dont will bring unrest among the community. so either keep trolling (well not trolling but poetry isnt helping here) or start brining good ideas again.

If you dont understand what im pointing at then check 3.) of my previous post since that is one part of the problem when ambitious players/organizations get their way.

 

I mean cmon if you could say what will be destroyed and what can stay then youre practically a gm and are above a regular player. And as it was and is in our reality, power corrupts people so ofc those in control would abuse it to have their own buildings there where they want and the ones from other players gone.

 

If you really want to keep it fair/neutral then let the devs handle it.

 

The Novaquark organization exists here allready, i can imagine them being active ingame, kinda like randomly appearing (when they got time and are bored) sentinel forces bringing a little bit order back to the chaos that we spread in the universe (getting rid of those bickdutts and maybe bringing benevolent blessings upon weary explorers)

 

If it has to be part of realism/lore then why not make it look like the Arkships own droids/drones or w/e going around when the ships energy is at the peak, so to vent some energy instead of having it wasted, the AI uses it to produce AI helpers that clean up the surroundings a bit.

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The job would be best suited for COPS.

 

 

Sorry, do not agree. You are showing a serious conflict of interest here.

 

While however distasteful some buildings/groups/establishments may be, we, as players, have no right to tell those players how to play their game, only the Devs does.

 

In this case, we are talking about buildings. So, where will this stop? What is after the builds? What if I do not like how a ship design looks because it looks like a "male body part", or how an organization operates, because they are all grifers? If players have the power to take away a build from another player (or group), why stop there?

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