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Clarification - Is this considered element stacking?


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I used to be able to sink adjusters into elements such as ailerons and thusters for a very clean look, but it would no longer seem to be the case. Are my current ones illegal? They still seem to be operational according to my flight tab.

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Its hard to give a definitive answer. Overlap checks can be a little inconsistent especially on larger ships. I recommend you review your engineering report occasionally and adjust if you notice any problems. As to legality, this kind of overlap is extremely minor, to the point its really just cosmetic. The overlap restrictions were added to deal with placements that gave players strategic advantages (ie: overlapping engines). I think your fine to continue like this, just be aware that NQ could make revisions in the future if players find a way to abuse it. Speaking of which, please submit a bug report if you do encounter any overlaps that could have the potential for abuse.

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8 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

Are my current ones illegal?

Yes.

 

Will they work? Magic eightball says 'unclear', as @Msoul said, the detection system is broken as heck. I had to move everything outside of other elements on most of my ships. But some players report, move something one voxel up and back down again, fixes it in the engineering report...

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All that matters is how the element was placed in that position.  If it required an exploit to achieve the positioning, then it's an exploit.

 

But if you were able to put the element in that position using the tools provided by NQ, as they were intended to be used, then it's fine.

 

If no exploit was used, and elements are flagged, then the detection system is still not working correctly.

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Basically, if you placed the element the normal way and it allowed you to place it, it shoudl not be marked as colliding/stacking and if it does, that is an error/bug to be reported as such..

 

There is plenty of examples showing the implementation is sketchy at best with a good many questionable reports that go away after you simply move the element one tick away.. and back.

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If you can place elements using normal build functionality it is 100% legal, anything else makes no sense what so ever.

 

Stacking are elements that where placed using multiplayer exploits so that they completely or largely overlap each other. The tiny ~1% overlaps you sometimes get while building normally, is just classics NQ "first draft to be improved later" functionality becoming permanent and has nothing to do with stacking.

 

And that is the BIG problem with the element collision detection that went live. It is breaking 100% legal builds past and present that does not use stack exploits what so ever. Heck, it even broke NQ's own ships that they sell at the markets.

 

And so even fully knowing this NQ went ahead with a element collision that falsely detect and disables normally placed elements. A detection that is not even needed since the ability to perform stacking exploits had already been fixed elsewhere!

 

So now you have two competing systems. A build system that allows you to place elements, and a collisions system that smacks you fingers in unpredictable ways after the fact. This is patently bad behavior that ruins the build process and was well documented during PTS, so there really is no justification for having this system go live like this.

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On 5/13/2022 at 5:24 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

All that matters is how the element was placed in that position.  If it required an exploit to achieve the positioning, then it's an exploit.

 

But if you were able to put the element in that position using the tools provided by NQ, as they were intended to be used, then it's fine.

 

If no exploit was used, and elements are flagged, then the detection system is still not working correctly.

I just logged in for the first time since the patch to try this out.  Of the 7 ships I looked at, 5 are reporting stacked elements even though none of them have any (3 of the 5 are ships I made myself and I know I didn't use any exploits).  If I were still playing at the moment I'd be cross about that and filing bug tickets but why bother at the moment if it might all get wiped anyway?  I'll just wait on the wipe decision, see if I feel like playing again and file tickets for anything I plan on keeping.

 

Also it seems my factory contains stacked elements now.  That's just ridiculous.  The whole point of this stuff was to stop people gaining PvP advantage (or similar with mission ships) by making small ships which had a large number of elements without paying the size/cross section penalty for that.  How on earth does that apply to a *factory on a static core*?  That's just insane.  What possible justification could there be to apply this type pf rule to static constructs at all?  Is nobody managing the developers and asking questions like 'what is the benefit we get from inconveniencing and annoying our users here?'

 

And now I'm cross and logging out again.

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Try a 100% of your ships not working any longer. All my builds are optimized for minimal footprints using hardly any voxels, and none of them work as they should after the patch. Some don't even fly at all.

 

And that is something I refuse to fix, since the fault is all NQ. And together with the wipe thing it is why I have stopped playing now.

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Has anyone checked to see if the flagged elements are functional or not?

 

The last word from NQ was that they would work on the algorithm and then release it with Athena for more testing.  but without disabling elements.

 

So flagged elements should still be functional, i think.

 

It sounds like it's working exactly the same as it was before Athena, so maybe they haven't even made any changes yet.

 

 

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I have ships that are totally broken now, so whatever they released. It is not working as intended.

 

And it would not surprise me if the game is now so dead that NQ is hardly receiving any rapports about this problem. And combined with NQ's total lack of QA, they actually think everything is fine.. So yeah, would not surprise me at all, and releasing game breaking updates and not even bothering to acknowledge the problem is all just part of the new norm now.

 

And that the broken system is trying to fix a issue (stacking) that does not even exist any longer, is just the icing on the cake.

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