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NQ: Could you please clearly clarify what is allowed and what is not?


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17 minutes ago, carijay766 said:

somewhat quantum state of existence when not rendered, moving but also staying in place

Yeah i get that. But this mechanics was implemented to stop players from stopping their ships via log out. So while it's technically stays in place, it's still not "stopped" and have speed.

So if you not "stop" your ship in safe zone, it's quite obvious it can travel outside of safe zone with time. It's just realization of this mechanics, that for construct to CONTINUE moving it requires someone onboard.
But how is unfreezing ship can be treated as exploit and be forbidden, if it was intended. I think that if restoring constructs speed is forbidden and counts as an exploit, then this mechanics should be removed.

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This will allow for easy ban bait when I offer free taxi and log out 500m before the safe zone with passengers on board and they "transport" my ship by regular game mechanics outside of the safezone a

Considering the recent event with Elias Villd and the discussion in discord, NQ could you please clarify where exploiting starts? Could you please reply in details on each of the issues listed below?

IMO the bigger issue here is what sort of game do you want?  Do you want to have a game where people log on and have space adventures in a risky environment where  unexpected things happen, people do

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If this game will survive the current crisis and will gain a lot of players... there easily (and I'm sure it will!) can  happen such situation. Some novian has just installed and launched the game. He finishes all starting tutorials... There is the usage of surrogate pods at the end of tutorial. So, if novian will chose some random destination VR that will be a moving ship towards PvP zone... He will unintentionally bring some ship to the PvP zone where this ship could be pew-pewed by any random player... 

 

Well, "good" mechanics, nothing to say.

 

By the way... Even in EvE you're not completely safe in safe zone, if I know right.

 

Why not let players to use game mechanics as intended and allow to transfer the ships into the PvP zone with using only game mechanics and not some bugs like bumping or whatever? If you want 100% to be sure your ship will stay still while you're offline - park it on space static core and you're in safe! No one will be able to steal your ship.

 

Just rename "Safe zone" into "PvP Free zone" and that's all! There will be no PvP in PvP-free zone, but the usage of the normal game mechanics (and not bugs!) will be allowed.

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5 minutes ago, W1zard said:

But how is unfreezing ship can be treated as exploit and be forbidden, if it was intended. I think that if restoring constructs speed is forbidden and counts as an exploit, then this mechanics should be removed.

 

1000% agree with this quote! Storing speed while you offline is limitation because servers can't handle movement calculation of all dynamic constructs. But why in this case is not allowed to resume this movement calculation by some player onboard????

 

Either change this mechanic or declare this action as OK.

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Declaring this action as exploit is such not obvious decision.

 

YOU CAN'T JUMP ON SHIPS BECAUSE JUMPING ON SHIPS IS CONSIDERED TO BE EXPLOIT. What next step will be in this case? Will it be forbidden to move at all?

 

P.s.: Yes, the rule will be followed (and I am sure, not by all players!) as I suppose it will be in the rules... But not respected.

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2 hours ago, W1zard said:

Yeah i get that. But this mechanics was implemented to stop players from stopping their ships via log out. So while it's technically stays in place, it's still not "stopped" and have speed.

So if you not "stop" your ship in safe zone, it's quite obvious it can travel outside of safe zone with time. It's just realization of this mechanics, that for construct to CONTINUE moving it requires someone onboard.
But how is unfreezing ship can be treated as exploit and be forbidden, if it was intended. I think that if restoring constructs speed is forbidden and counts as an exploit, then this mechanics should be removed.

Yes "in theory" your ship should be flying on and on, its just a server limitation that it doesnt not a mechanic to avoid your ship from moving, the intended mechanic is exactly opposite. If they could they would make the move constantly. That wass the idea about the change.

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4 minutes ago, carijay766 said:

Yes "in theory" your ship should be flying on and on, its just a server limitation that it doesnt not a mechanic to avoid your ship from moving, the intended mechanic is exactly opposite. If they could they would make the move constantly. That wass the idea about the change.

The point is that the ship IS moving, it's not the player that made it move. IT IS MOVING ON IT'S OWN. The owner sets the trajectory not the passenger.

 

If I, as a passenger, board a plane that flies into a mountain because the pilot set the course into a mountain and jumped off the plane. Am I responsible for it colliding ?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, XKentX said:

The point is that the ship IS moving, it's not the player that made it move. IT IS MOVING ON IT'S OWN. The owner sets the trajectory not the passenger.

 

If I, as a passenger, board a plane that flies into a mountain because the pilot set the course into a mountain and jumped off the plane. Am I responsible for it colliding ?

 

 

What would your common sense say?

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Just now, carijay766 said:

What would your common sense say?

Common sense says the pilot that set the course is responsible. Same for DU:

If the owner set a course of the ship to PVP space from safe space the passenger that jumped into the ship is not to blame for it going into PVP space.

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That would be flawless logic yes, especially considering the game mechanic intends to avoid people from artificially stopping ships in place and intends to force their trajectory/movement to continue.

Not long ago logging out to make your ship stop was deemed an exploit even, now it seems there has been a 180° turn on "common sense" as this seems to be considered the baseline now and people that counteract the "feature" are deemed exploiters - even tho acting perfectly within the intended game mechanics.

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problem with NQ quickpatching stuff like this is that due to the thoughtless shallow nature of their "fixes" they inevitably end up with another bug that is exploitable...

 

i love this bug because it would (completely theoretically of course) allow me to do the following... (were I so inclined to cheat in a game like this, which I wouldnt't, of course 😉 )

 

say (hypothetically) that i fly an xs construct at 1000kph straight down and log off with Alt-F4...

 

this becomes a landmine for anyone touching it.

instadeath. 

 

a more interesting (theoretical of course I would never abuse this 😉 ) use case is take off with a tiny construct with nothing but a bunch of empty  L containers and enough rocket power to quickly reach 15k velocity and make sure that are you are linked  as primary to the container... 10 L or 10 XL should do... 

 

as soon as you reach the top of the atmosphere press b... boost to 10 ot 15k speed and respawn at your base.

 

now you have a stationary ship about 10 km or 12km up that you can load with 20kT of stuff so long as you dont touch the ship...once loaded get someone to fly you within build distance.. BUT DONT TOUCH THE SHIP...

 

then  press B and move over to the ship... as soon as you touch it, the ship will blast away at 15k kph... basically escape velocity...

 

fuel used: hardly any...

 

of course, this  is completely theoretical, i was told how to do this by a friend.

 

NQ would probably then rename this purposeful feature an exploit, language selected to shift the blame from the devs onto the players...

 

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18 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

problem with NQ quickpatching stuff like this is that due to the thoughtless shallow nature of their "fixes" they inevitably end up with another bug that is exploitable...

 

i love this bug because it would (completely theoretically of course) allow me to do the following... (were I so inclined to cheat in a game like this, which I wouldnt't, of course 😉 )

 

say (hypothetically) that i fly an xs construct at 1000kph straight down and log off with Alt-F4...

 

this becomes a landmine for anyone touching it.

instadeath. 

 

a more interesting (theoretical of course I would never abuse this 😉 ) use case is take off with a tiny construct with nothing but a bunch of empty  L containers and enough rocket power to quickly reach 15k velocity and make sure that are you are linked  as primary to the container... 10 L or 10 XL should do... 

 

as soon as you reach the top of the atmosphere press b... boost to 10 ot 15k speed and respawn at your base.

 

now you have a stationary ship about 10 km or 12km up that you can load with 20kT of stuff so long as you dont touch the ship...once loaded get someone to fly you within build distance.. BUT DONT TOUCH THE SHIP...

 

then  press B and move over to the ship... as soon as you touch it, the ship will blast away at 15k kph... basically escape velocity...

 

fuel used: hardly any...

 

of course, this  is completely theoretical, i was told how to do this by a friend.

 

NQ would probably then rename this purposeful feature an exploit, language selected to shift the blame from the devs onto the players...

 

Yes damn you for thinking about creative use of mechanics in a sandbox! Playing around with stuff to come up with unusual solutions. Im really disappointed you even dare to think of an creative approach.

Clearly its for the players to guess the developers intention and 100% and only follow this intention. If you think outside the box its on you and its perfectly fine for the developer to shame you publically instead of being thankful for your creative and unique way of showing possible flaws in the mechanic.

I had some really weird projects in the past where developers actually learned from this, were thankful - especially in a beta which is meant for testing and pushing limits - and considered similiar cases their responsibility not blameshifting those situations onto the playerbase, cant explain why someone would do such a thing tho.

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4 minutes ago, carijay766 said:

Yes damn you for thinking about creative use of mechanics in a sandbox! Playing around with stuff to come up with unusual solutions. Im really disappointed you even dare to think of an creative approach.

Clearly its for the players to guess the developers intention and 100% and only follow this intention. If you think outside the box its on you and its perfectly fine for the developer to shame you publically instead of being thankful for your creative and unique way of showing possible flaws in the mechanic.

Of course, I was just saying what I heard from a friend.... 😉  I have never used or attempted to load 18.56kT of pure Iron and 4.2kT of refined Copper from Alioth out of the atmosphere using a single L rocket booster and tank strapped to a bunch of containers on an M core with only 2L atmo and a single L space engine...

 

And of course, I would never then deploy the warp drive that also happened to be in the container -using build- to allow my (friend's) construct to stop without bothering about shite like space brakes trying to stop over 20kT by warping the final 5 SU to Madis (for example)...

 

My friend is a complete douchebag.... 

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23 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

a more interesting (theoretical of course I would never abuse this 😉 )

You evil mind, hahaha. 

 

Nice one. 

 

This game should change its name to. Exploit Universe. "A game where your ability to find exploit will give you an advantage" 

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