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Stop calling combat "PvP" pt. 2


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1 hour ago, ShellCarnage said:

But why does that matter?

 

Even if we called it Combat, people would called PVE carebear leaving you with "Combat Orgs/Carebear Orgs". The Divsion will be there no matter what because they are different game styles.

 

It just seems like you've making an issue out of something that isn't even an issue.

Well if DU is meant to be an immersive, borderline-metaverse space game / MMO like JC / NQ envision, having the community divided between PvP and non-PvP minded people and mechanics would be an issue

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2 hours ago, lucagrabacr said:

Well if DU is meant to be an immersive, borderline-metaverse space game / MMO like JC / NQ envision, having the community divided between PvP and non-PvP minded people and mechanics would be an issue

 

In the OP you said "using Combat will eliminate all these issues"  I honestly don't understand how substituting one word that means one thing, for another word that means something else entirely will be helpful in any way.  

 

Combat is one of the ways that players can compete against each other.  PVP means players competing against other players.  As opposed to players competing against the game. 

 

A crossword puzzle is a game.  But not PVP.

 

Baseball is a game, and also usually PVP.

 

Fortnite is a game that features combat-PVP.  I think, never actually played it.  

 

Dual Universe is a game that features things like building, crafting, progression, exploration, and combat.  And all of those things can be done in competition with other players.  AKA PVP.

 

Sometimes Combat = PVP

 

PVP doesn't always = Combat

 

When we're talking about balancing the game, i think it would be helpful to stop saying "PVP" when we specifically mean "PVP-Combat".

 

But sometimes when combat happens in the game, it isn't just PVP-combat, sometimes it's also about trade, or exploration, or Org diplomacy.

 

So why just call it combat?

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7 hours ago, Lethys said:

some ppl really should get a RL - and no, i will always call it PVP and will not stop calling it pvp just because someone disagrees

 

don't really see the point - besides that ppl are stupid and can't read in an unbiased way maybe so they confuse stuff

It's a suggestion not an edict

6 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

In the OP you said "using Combat will eliminate all these issues"  I honestly don't understand how substituting one word that means one thing, for another word that means something else entirely will be helpful in any way.  

 

Combat is one of the ways that players can compete against each other.  PVP means players competing against other players.  As opposed to players competing against the game. 

 

A crossword puzzle is a game.  But not PVP.

 

Baseball is a game, and also usually PVP.

 

Fortnite is a game that features combat-PVP.  I think, never actually played it.  

 

Dual Universe is a game that features things like building, crafting, progression, exploration, and combat.  And all of those things can be done in competition with other players.  AKA PVP.

 

Sometimes Combat = PVP

 

PVP doesn't always = Combat

 

When we're talking about balancing the game, i think it would be helpful to stop saying "PVP" when we specifically mean "PVP-Combat".

 

But sometimes when combat happens in the game, it isn't just PVP-combat, sometimes it's also about trade, or exploration, or Org diplomacy.

 

So why just call it combat?

Well I did give an example either in this thread or in another post that games which use the word combat instead of PvP has less of this division because the community perceive things differently (ex: ED VS SE), so it is my belief that it does matter

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2 hours ago, lucagrabacr said:

Well I did give an example either in this thread or in another post that games which use the word combat instead of PvP has less of this division because the community perceive things differently (ex: ED VS SE), so it is my belief that it does matter

I think the heart of the conflict is based around people's expectations not being met. One extreme side of the spectrum is a group of people who expect to be able to attack whoever they want, wherever they want, so anything that curtails that is undermining their expectations. The same is true for the opposite extreme: some people just want to be able to mine, build, and trade without having to worry about other players interfering with that. Whether we call it PvP, PvE, PvPvE, combat, emergent gameplay, sandbox mechanics, or anything else will not change divergent player expectations. As I said, there's merit in what you are saying. How players perceive mechanics matters, but I'm skeptical of how much that perception is rooted in language and semantics. Perhaps the best point in your favor is that the term "PvP" has accrued powerful connotations, both positive and negative, and so its use might very well be deleterious to the discussion. But at the end of the day, I'm not sure it's possible, much less effective, to try to alter the vocabulary at this point.

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You are trying to reinvent shorthand that is not in need of reinventing. 

 

Every video gamer in the world recognizes that the letters PVP next to a game's description means they can compete against other players.  If it is a racing game, you race against other players. If it is a shooting game, you shoot other players. 

 

Games like DU and Eve allow other forms of PVP but things like market competition are rare enough within games that they should be spelled out rather than abbreviated.  If you want to specify combat PVP, then its best to say ship vs ship  PVP or PVP ground combat. If someone were to tell me a game had combat, I would want to know what I'm fighting against. 

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